Round Baler - Small Hp Tractor

[IsaanAussie]

Dear Tractor Owners,

Does anyone have a small round baler here in Thailand? There are two models made by Star in Japan which interest me and are sold in the US and UK at prices far below the cost of the local square balers here. My tractor is an Iseki TS2810 4WD and whilst the local sales people assure that the Siam baler is suitable, I doubt it.

My use for the bales is a combination of feed (dry and silage) and garden mulching requirements and most of the available labour are women. Hence my restrictions are weight of the bales as well as HP of the tractor.

Any ideas welcome.

PS. I contacted IHI Star in Japan and was told Anglo Thai were the agents. Anglo Thai assured me they were not but had in Fact purchase Star equipment in the past.

[Maizefarmer]

Siam baler off a TS2810 ?? - you'll need to keep the throttle set for max engine torque (rpm), but it will do the job.

If you're baling for silage can I suggest you square bale. Round bales you will have to wrap each bale individualy. Square bales and you can pack the whole lot into one sealed clamp. Just an idea.

Secondly, while the Siam baler handles dry forage matter, I have watched it run on high mositure fresh cut grass - for silage - and both myself and others watching the demo questioned the density consistancy of the bales it produced.

The Star is all round a better product, but expensive (landed in Thailand).

Out of curiosity - how many bales do you anticipate each season?

[pnustedt]

My tractor is an Iseki TS2810 4WD and whilst the local sales people assure that the Siam baler is suitable, I doubt it.

I see from Siam's tech. spec. the power of tractor required is "at least 25HP" http://www.siambaler.com/eng%20technical%2...cifications.htm

You could try pulling mine around sometime (but out of rice straw baling season!).

[IsaanAussie]

Siam baler off a TS2810 ?? - you'll need to keep the throttle set for max engine torque (rpm), but it will do the job.

If you're baling for silage can I suggest you square bale. Round bales you will have to wrap each bale individualy. Square bales and you can pack the whole lot into one sealed clamp. Just an idea.

Secondly, while the Siam baler handles dry forage matter, I have watched it run on high mositure fresh cut grass - for silage - and both myself and others watching the demo questioned the density consistancy of the bales it produced.

The Star is all round a better product, but expensive (landed in Thailand).

Out of curiosity - how many bales do you anticipate each season?

MF,

As you cab imagine there are many occasions when my little tractor is revving quite hard to get torque level up, so nothing new there.

Tightly packed bales is the target, especially for silage, so I take your point on consistency of packing. As I pointed out I want to keep the bale weight down so women can handle them easily. A wrapper is also on the shopping list as is a silage cutter. Star have these products but I will try to source locally if I can.

On bale numbers I have not worked it out exactly but offer this in response. We have a total of some 50 rai all under rice currently which we will bale this year plus I intend to grow grass and other fodder crops during the dry season on as much of that as I can get water to. The idea of baling for others has occurred to me but time will tell on that score. We are growing sweet potatoes, peanuts and corn and the stover will be chopped and baled as well.

You mentioned Star is expensive landed in Thailand, any ideas how much?

Regards

Isaanaussie

[IsaanAussie]

My tractor is an Iseki TS2810 4WD and whilst the local sales people assure that the Siam baler is suitable, I doubt it.

I see from Siam's tech. spec. the power of tractor required is "at least 25HP" http://www.siambaler.com/eng%20technical%2...cifications.htm

You could try pulling mine around sometime (but out of rice straw baling season!).

Thanks PN,

I just take you up on that offer one day.

Regards

Isaanaussie

[Maizefarmer]

Siam baler off a TS2810 ?? - you'll need to keep the throttle set for max engine torque (rpm), but it will do the job.

If you're baling for silage can I suggest you square bale. Round bales you will have to wrap each bale individualy. Square bales and you can pack the whole lot into one sealed clamp. Just an idea.

Secondly, while the Siam baler handles dry forage matter, I have watched it run on high mositure fresh cut grass - for silage - and both myself and others watching the demo questioned the density consistancy of the bales it produced.

The Star is all round a better product, but expensive (landed in Thailand).

Out of curiosity - how many bales do you anticipate each season?

MF,

As you cab imagine there are many occasions when my little tractor is revving quite hard to get torque level up, so nothing new there.

Tightly packed bales is the target, especially for silage, so I take your point on consistency of packing. As I pointed out I want to keep the bale weight down so women can handle them easily. A wrapper is also on the shopping list as is a silage cutter. Star have these products but I will try to source locally if I can.

On bale numbers I have not worked it out exactly but offer this in response. We have a total of some 50 rai all under rice currently which we will bale this year plus I intend to grow grass and other fodder crops during the dry season on as much of that as I can get water to. The idea of baling for others has occurred to me but time will tell on that score. We are growing sweet potatoes, peanuts and corn and the stover will be chopped and baled as well.

You mentioned Star is expensive landed in Thailand, any ideas how much?

Regards

Isaanaussie

Actually, the TS2810 is produces most of its torque at around 70% of max rpm. The hp figure that Iseki gives for this model (as is the case with published hp figures for all their tractors up untill around 2003) is interestingly NOT really the max engine power, but the max engine power at max torque rpm.

I produce loads of silage every year to feed my cattle, and also started off many years back wrapping each bale individualy - so I know a thing or 2 about this subject.

I don"t know what you know about silage but heres a few more practical points to think through: yes, you do indeed need a dense bale for silage (that doesn't need explaining) but my concern is the size of the bale you are going to get from the Star and the weight it will need to be for easy handling by women, coupled with climate conditions here in Thailand towards the end of the season (humidity) are all going to add up to a high percent of spoilage. In practise I would be suprized if you realised more than 50% -60% good bales (meaning: bales that are going to last as usable silage).

They are going to have to be ensiled right on the limit in terms of moisture content, to ensure the material is pliable enough to get a dense bale (considering the limitations of the Siam baler). The contradiction here is that the moisture content is going to mean a small bale (so it can easily be handled), and a small bale is so much more likely to spoil within a month or so of wrapping.

I appreciate what you are trying to achieve, but please take the benefit of my practical experiance - I see high spoilage.

A far better option is going be square bales that can be clamped, and a front end lifter loader on your Iseki to enable the bales (much larger bales) to be moved around.

Even better will be no bales at all but one single clamp in a plastic lined pit (the method I now use) - but not really practical unless you are doing something like 50 tons plus.

I wrote up some notes on the forum for silage making in Thailand a couple years back (search "Maizefarmer" and "silage") - you may , may not find them helpfull.

Bale plastic and wrappers are avalible in Thailand - if still interested will message you details.

All the best - and any questions, please do ask - more than happy to help (nothing more depressing than lost time & effort ensiling)

All the best

[IsaanAussie]

Bale plastic and wrappers are avalible in Thailand - if still interested will message you details.

Dear MF,

As always thanks for the advice. I had not imagined a spoilage rate like that and as sillage was an added rather than vital part, I think it unlikely that I will be asked for more information. The vermiculture option seems a more reliable way to use the small amounts of potential sillage I will be handling. Pigs, fish and chickens eat worms.

Got any clues on a sillage cutter (local if possible)?

Again your advice is invaluable to me and I am sure many other members of this forum. Thank you.

Isaanaussie

[Maizefarmer]

If you are going to add additives to the silage bales - yes, that would certainly increase the "good bale rate" substantialy.

Silage cutter (?) - as in a crop/forage grass cutter that will cut the forage to the correct size/length? - a 3 point hitch pto shaft operated forage cutter harvester.

There's a Thai guy in Muek Lek who makes a reasonable forage small/medium tractor towable forage harvester. It's fine for grasses, but not sure about maize crops. Anyhow search the farming section of the forum for "Muek Lek" and "forage harvester" - and you should find product and contact details. Its a basic pto operated machine (your Iseki has plenty power to drive it), has limitations but if I recall correctly it does facilitate partical length adjustment (a big big plus point). That I think is going to be on balance will be the most feasible option, but if you don;t like what you see, come back and I will see how I can help (if at all).

This will depend on exactly what you intend to ensile e.g. grass is cutt into different sized pieces than you would cut full maize plants - and to take it a step further (which is not really neccassery) you can fine tune the silage partical size depending on the moisture content at which you intend to ensile at.

I certainly do not want to discourage you from ensiling - making your own silage will save you an enorumous amount of money come the dry season. Lack of silage is the single biggest cause of Thai dairy farmers not been able to stay in the black during the dry season, and i would think the impact cost wise is not much different in respect of others livestock either Get it wrong and come the time to break open the clamp only to find it all mushy and ruined and it will be very depressing.

[IsaanAussie]

Dear MF,

Let me start at the beginning so I might benefit more from your knowledge.

I am growing rice with the family. We have plots at 12, 7, 23 and 1 rai in size. This year I will get a contractor with a combine in to harvest the crop and hope to bale the straw myself. I am also growing corn, sweet potatoes and peanuts all for product sale, as well as oil and feed outcomes. We are building a piggery which will house a total of 150 pigs, so my prime intention is to produce as much feed for the pigs as I can. All three crops produce foliage that can be ensiled and I hope to do that.

During the next dry season I want to plant further crops for feed and also other manure and forage crops on as much of the land (plus a bit I am renting) as I can get water to. Again feed is the primary objective.

Now comes the rub. I could buy forage cutter like the Star MFC2340, or a Flail harvester such as Stars MFH0930 or the Thai unit you have described. My feeling is that a 3 point mounted PTO driven cutter with the crop being cut by hand and feed in would probably be the best way to go, as it allows me to use it as a mulcher as well for vermicomposting etc...

A simple slasher deck mower, perhaps a rake/tedder along with the baler and for silage, a wrapper, will do most grass, legume type cutting I need. Green fodder can still be baled and then fed to the few cows we have as well as the pigs. Currently the Thai cows are fed almost entirely of carry over rice straw in the wet season and graze the paddy stubble in the dry. The intention is to selectively graze on smaller parts of the land on which we will grow suitable forage for them.

Obviously it is all budget driven as much as HP available. Locally the people tend to still do everything by hand and I do not believe that many would use the equipment as a service, (they all would if I offered it free).

Whatever I decide must therefore be cost effective for our own land as I am not relying on any external income.

I continue to be interested in any thoughts and opinions you may be able to offer.

Regards

Tony

PS. Tried to find the Thai guys contact details you suggested on the forum unsuccessfully but I have got his number written down somewhere here if I can find it.

[mixedbreed]

Hello Isaanaussie,

I have never uploaded photo's before, so hope this works.

This is the muek Lek cutter

also an Abbriata square baler purchased from dealer in Bangkok

Almost anything is available in Thailand, just takes looking.

Most of this stuff I bought some years ago so not to upto date on latest prices.

Hopes this loads OK

Dear MF,

Let me start at the beginning so I might benefit more from your knowledge.

I am growing rice with the family. We have plots at 12, 7, 23 and 1 rai in size. This year I will get a contractor with a combine in to harvest the crop and hope to bale the straw myself. I am also growing corn, sweet potatoes and peanuts all for product sale, as well as oil and feed outcomes. We are building a piggery which will house a total of 150 pigs, so my prime intention is to produce as much feed for the pigs as I can. All three crops produce foliage that can be ensiled and I hope to do that.

During the next dry season I want to plant further crops for feed and also other manure and forage crops on as much of the land (plus a bit I am renting) as I can get water to. Again feed is the primary objective.

Now comes the rub. I could buy forage cutter like the Star MFC2340, or a Flail harvester such as Stars MFH0930 or the Thai unit you have described. My feeling is that a 3 point mounted PTO driven cutter with the crop being cut by hand and feed in would probably be the best way to go, as it allows me to use it as a mulcher as well for vermicomposting etc...

A simple slasher deck mower, perhaps a rake/tedder along with the baler and for silage, a wrapper, will do most grass, legume type cutting I need. Green fodder can still be baled and then fed to the few cows we have as well as the pigs. Currently the Thai cows are fed almost entirely of carry over rice straw in the wet season and graze the paddy stubble in the dry. The intention is to selectively graze on smaller parts of the land on which we will grow suitable forage for them.

Obviously it is all budget driven as much as HP available. Locally the people tend to still do everything by hand and I do not believe that many would use the equipment as a service, (they all would if I offered it free).

Whatever I decide must therefore be cost effective for our own land as I am not relying on any external income.

I continue to be interested in any thoughts and opinions you may be able to offer.

Regards

Tony

PS. Tried to find the Thai guys contact details you suggested on the forum unsuccessfully but I have got his number written down somewhere here if I can find it.

[IsaanAussie]

Hello Isaanaussie,

I have never uploaded photo's before, so hope this works.

This is the muek Lek cutter

also an Abbriata square baler purchased from dealer in Bangkok

Almost anything is available in Thailand, just takes looking.

Most of this stuff I bought some years ago so not to upto date on latest prices.

Hopes this loads OK

Dear Mixed Breed,

Thanks for the photos, they will prove useful in explaining what I am looking for.

I notice that you have a decent herd of cattle and a lot of grassed area, both of which I do not. However the static use of the baler is something that interests me. I assume that there is a crew of people hand feeding the grass, hay and straw into it, is that correct?

If you don't mind, I would ask a few more questions about your Muek Lek cutter. What other types of crops do you use it on? Is it a flail (chains) or blade cutting machine? Is there any chop length adjustment?

By the way, your farm layout looks really great. Congratulations.

Isaanaussie

[mixedbreed]

Hi Isaanaussie,

The Muek Lek cutter is strickly cut and carry for the cows, (130) They used to hand cut (Honda) and carry which took 2 people all day, to bad when there was a death or marriage or go to be a Monk. if not careful cows could go hungry. Buying the cut and carry machine solved those problems. The only adjustment is cutting height, for cut length the travel speed must be contolled. Its a flail cutter, not chains but cutting teeth.

Muek Lek fabricator made me another much bigger unit for cutting corn for silage, pretty crude for cut legnths but for now does the job, ones of these days I'll make the effort and get a proper machine. Proberbly be a lot less wastage. I have concrete lined pits that hold over a hundred ton of grass and corn silage.

Have another Flail cutter (imported) by same company sold me the square baler, which I use for grass silage. They also sold me the drum cutter for cutting hay.

The baler is for grass bales of course, as well as the rice straw, We bale direct in the paddy after the rice harvesters have been through. We have 126 rai of rice paddy, 2 harvesting machines and do contract work as well as our own paddies. The baler also does contract baling as you see in the photo, 3 people feeding it from the pile. For our own use we use it as a tow behind, the 35hp yanmar handles it OK. Between the 2 harvesters and the baler they make a good income each year.

Hope this has been of some help.

Dear Mixed Breed,

Thanks for the photos, they will prove useful in explaining what I am looking for.

I notice that you have a decent herd of cattle and a lot of grassed area, both of which I do not. However the static use of the baler is something that interests me. I assume that there is a crew of people hand feeding the grass, hay and straw into it, is that correct?

If you don't mind, I would ask a few more questions about your Muek Lek cutter. What other types of crops do you use it on? Is it a flail (chains) or blade cutting machine? Is there any chop length adjustment?

By the way, your farm layout looks really great. Congratulations.

Isaanaussie

[IsaanAussie]

I am leaning towards a PTO driven cutter such as the attached Star model. Interesting to see if the guy in Muak Lek can make one of these or something like it.

isaanaussie

Star_Forage_cutter.pdf

[mixedbreed]

Hi Isaanaussie,

Possibly he can make something that will do the job, he has a few specialties such as the cut and carry units, trailers, manure spreaders (he has a nice small machine) he made our big unit on a special request. Early this year I had a need to run a kilometer of HDPE piping for reticulation around the farm and while doing research on the different manufacturers I spent a day in Pak Chong looking through the different stores, I saw cutters similar in some of the stores there. Not PTO driven but setup for either diesel or electric motor. At least if you are making the trip to Muek Lek, Pak Chong is just around the corner.

I am leaning towards a PTO driven cutter such as the attached Star model. Interesting to see if the guy in Muak Lek can make one of these or something like it.

isaanaussie

[IsaanAussie]

Hi Mixedbreed,

Thanks for the information all the more resaon to spend some time in the area, especially Muak Lek.

I intend to chop corn stover etc.. in the field and avoid having to carry it back home to cut it. I hope to bale it onsite as well. All to do with time to process and nutrient values, as well as limited space and avoiding a mess around the house. I also do not want any more motors than I have to have and there is no electricity supply to our paddy fields.

If I could get a cutter than could feed straight into a small round baler than I will have arrived in heaven.

Regards

Isaanaussie