Hiv Positive

[Tolley]

My best mate in Thailand just found out that his girlfriend who he lives with for over four years is HIV positive and has been for four years.

He never used condoms but when he got tested he came up HIV negative.

What are the odds of this happening?

[Dakhar]

The odds I have seen is 1/2000

That said, there are a lot of unlucky folks out there.

[Tolley]

The odds I have seen is 1/2000

Are u saying that he was extremely lucky or that he would have been unlucky if he tested HIV positive?

[zorro1]

I think contracting aids through hetro vaginal sex is minimal. I have 2 buddies been coming here 20 years and they both in their seventies. They get juiced up on cialis, Viagra usually double dosage and live at the beer garden BKK Neither has ever used a condom ever and wont go with girls that insist. Their excuse is who cares I'm in my seventies and they both have there yearly medical at bumrungrad. Negative every time. Personally I think there nuts but no disputing the results

Edited September 5, 2008 by zorro1

[Smithson]

I think the biggest danger is the persons viral load. I knew someone who's GF developed full blown aids. He'd been with her for less then 12 months and tested positive.

[Tolley]

I think contracting aids through hetro vaginal sex is minimal. I have 2 buddies been coming here 20 years and they both in their seventies. They get juiced up on cialis, Viagra usually double dosage and live at the beer garden BKK Neither has ever used a condom ever and wont go with girls that insist. Their excuse is who cares I'm in my seventies and they both have there yearly medical at bumrungrad. Negative every time. Personally I think there nuts but no disputing the results

I guess there is no fool like an old fool because they got more experience!

There are a lot of other nasties out there besides HIV.

I wouldn't like to get any of them.

[Tolley]

I think the biggest danger is the persons viral load. I knew someone who's GF developed full blown aids. He'd been with her for less then 12 months and tested positive.

There is a difference between having the HIV virus and AIDS.

You can have the HIV virus for a long long time before you develope AIDS or not ever develop AIDS i thing but i get your point.

[hanno]

I think contracting aids through hetro vaginal sex is minimal. I have 2 buddies been coming here 20 years and they both in their seventies. They get juiced up on cialis, Viagra usually double dosage and live at the beer garden BKK Neither has ever used a condom ever and wont go with girls that insist. Their excuse is who cares I'm in my seventies and they both have there yearly medical at bumrungrad. Negative every time. Personally I think there nuts but no disputing the results

Pretty stupid. Not only can they catch all sort of other nasties, but also pass on AIDS/HIV to other girls (as I assume that they don't stick with just one girl?).

[Dakhar]

I think contracting aids through hetro vaginal sex is minimal. I have 2 buddies been coming here 20 years and they both in their seventies. They get juiced up on cialis, Viagra usually double dosage and live at the beer garden BKK Neither has ever used a condom ever and wont go with girls that insist. Their excuse is who cares I'm in my seventies and they both have there yearly medical at bumrungrad. Negative every time. Personally I think there nuts but no disputing the results

It is just a guess.... but I think the girls that they pass HIV too would care. Just a hunch though. Sad to think a girl would be willing to "go" with one of these guys without protection.

[lazeeboy]

I think contracting aids through hetro vaginal sex is minimal. I have 2 buddies been coming here 20 years and they both in their seventies. They get juiced up on cialis, Viagra usually double dosage and live at the beer garden BKK Neither has ever used a condom ever and wont go with girls that insist. Their excuse is who cares I'm in my seventies and they both have there yearly medical at bumrungrad. Negative every time. Personally I think there nuts but no disputing the results

those kind of people are a danger to everyone else

[Treborz]

It has to enter your bloodstream so it's actually a lot harder to contract than many people think.

This is why it's more prominent in drug users that share needles.

[zorro1]

Don't agree with it like I said they are nuts. Perhaps they go on the assumption everyone else wears them so minimal exposure. I imagine at 70 plus you would want as little desensititation as possible

[nidhogg]

My best mate in Thailand just found out that his girlfriend who he lives with for over four years is HIV positive and has been for four years.

He never used condoms but when he got tested he came up HIV negative.

What are the odds of this happening?

Reasonable.

Normal, well lubricated, vaginal sex with a woman with a low viral load, with no other factors (other STD's mainly) is associated with a low risk of transmission. Change one of those factors however, and all bets are off.

[OxfordWill]

A poster on another forum had a long thread about finding out he was HIV+, he slept with his girlfriend for something like 4 - 6 months during the window period and before he got tested, which is also one of the highest viral load levels during seroconversion, his girlfriend 3 months later tested negative. No condoms, sex every day. Some researchers have shown that certain types of people are more or less likely to transmit/contract HIV, but they dont know what types.

[Tolley]

Maybe the relative health of the individual also plays a role eg someone with a good immune system and healthy may have a lower risk of contracting than say a person with poor health and lower immune function.

[Mrjlh]

I think contracting aids through hetro vaginal sex is minimal. I have 2 buddies been coming here 20 years and they both in their seventies. They get juiced up on cialis, Viagra usually double dosage and live at the beer garden BKK Neither has ever used a condom ever and wont go with girls that insist. Their excuse is who cares I'm in my seventies and they both have there yearly medical at bumrungrad. Negative every time. Personally I think there nuts but no disputing the results

Its Aholes like these two that spread diseases around. They catch something and then pass it on the unfortunate girls who give to some other unsuspecting guy just because they think they are special. No love lost here if they croak on an overdose! If a girl "does" catch something from one of them, they better watch their backs. I've already know of a couple of guys that got more than a friend handshake for an unknown tuktuk driver. By the way its easier for the girl to catch something than the man.

[wasabi]

There is a more virulent subtype in Thailand, subtype E. The above people who have had or are having sex without condoms are indeed lucky and crazy. There are actually some people with near immunity to HIV. You can test for this with some of the new DNA testing services. I got tested and I don't have it. There is less risk for a man having sex with a woman than say a man having sex with a man but there is definitely some risk. I have done some incredibly stupid and risky things in the past and am lucky I didn't get infected. I have learned my lesson. The fact I didn't get infected doesn't make me want to try my luck again. In my personal opinion I think the problem of HIV is getting worse not better. I think transmissions are increasing and the virus itself is getting stronger. I have gotten tested at the Thai Red Cross a few times and this most recent time saw several farangs picking up big sacks of HIV meds. Do you really want that to be your life? Don't take any chances.

Caveat Emptor.

[OxfordWill]

Where can I find more information about the testing for near-immunity to HIV, wasabi? Did you get it done in the Kingdom?

[mommysboy]

My best mate in Thailand just found out that his girlfriend who he lives with for over four years is HIV positive and has been for four years.

He never used condoms but when he got tested he came up HIV negative.

What are the odds of this happening?

It's quite normal really, but is anyone on the boards willing to take the risk?

Best not to talk odds, it doesn't work like that.

A minority of people seem to be highly infectious, and some people and races seem to be more susceptible. I'm not sure about this sub type argument to be honest.

A disease best avoided that is for sure even if the drugs are getting better and better.

[wasabi]

Where can I find more information about the testing for near-immunity to HIV, wasabi? Did you get it done in the Kingdom?

My friend works for a company (and) I got a discount and got a full genome screening from them. There are companies that test just for the HIV immunity but I don't know how reliable they are and I couldn't find one with a quick Google search but I am certain they exist. (the company poster used) is backed by Google and very reliable but expensive. Please be aware the immunity is not 100% it just shows you have a strong propensity not to get the virus and if you do it will be less deadly.

[Sheryl]

First of all, if your frined's HIV neagtive status was determined by the conventional HIV test he needs to be aware thast this measures antibodies in the blood which take some time -- in some cases as much as 6 months -- to develop and thus a negative result cannot rule out a recent infection. Since it is certain he has been exposed he would do well to get the PCR test which costs mo4e and takes about a week b ut will detect even minute amounts of virus in the blood and thus is the only test that can rule out very recent in fection. If he doesn't do this then his only recourse is to repeat the standard test at 3 and then (if still negatiove) 6 months, using condoms consistently in the meantime. He should of course start doing that regardless.

As to the odds it is impossible to say in the absence of much more information, most important being the woman's viral load throughout this 4 year period. If she is on anti-retroviral drugs her VL may be quite low or even undetectable which greatly reduces the odds of infecting a partner. Other varioables include whether or not she at any point had any vaginal or cervical lesions, whether he at any time had any genital sores or abrasions, and specific sex practices (e.g. anal; sex carries higher risk). Obviously he was lucky but how lucky is impossible to dsay without knowing all these things.

Re the genetic testuing, forget it. First of all there is little otr no efefctive quality control on the various commercial labs that have proliferated claiming to offer DNA testing; some may be completely fake and not labs at all. Secondly, only about 1% of people have sufficient genetic mutation to be "virtually"immune and it is still ":virtually"not "totally" so condom use would still be advised...esopecially since, third point, such genetic mutation does not in any way imply immunity to all theo ther nasty things transmitted in the same way as HIV: gonorrhea, chlamydia, Hep B etc. And there are some drug resistant strains of these diseases about.

[wasabi]

I agree with Sheryl that the virtual immunity is rare and even if I had it I would wear a condom with people of unknown status. However from what I've been reading as far as the window period the CDC says 25 days to seroconversion is the average. About 99% of people will convert within 13 weeks and those who take longer typically have some type of immune suppression going on such as chemotherapy. I think the 6 month time frame may no longer be valid with modern testing. I think 3 months is considered conclusive nowadays for all but the slimmest minority.

[mommysboy]

There is a more virulent subtype in Thailand, subtype E. The above people who have had or are having sex without condoms are indeed lucky and crazy. There are actually some people with near immunity to HIV. You can test for this with some of the new DNA testing services. I got tested and I don't have it. There is less risk for a man having sex with a woman than say a man having sex with a man but there is definitely some risk. I have done some incredibly stupid and risky things in the past and am lucky I didn't get infected. I have learned my lesson. The fact I didn't get infected doesn't make me want to try my luck again. In my personal opinion I think the problem of HIV is getting worse not better. I think transmissions are increasing and the virus itself is getting stronger. I have gotten tested at the Thai Red Cross a few times and this most recent time saw several farangs picking up big sacks of HIV meds. Do you really want that to be your life? Don't take any chances.

Caveat Emptor.

Whilst generally agreeing with the gist of your post, I'd venture to say that the sentence highlighted in red is at least unproven. It's a tricky area to discuss, but your stance seems a little exaggerated and needs to be restated a little.

Nevertheless we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that these people are knowingly placing themselves at risk of contracting HIV and getting an STD is surely a certainty.

What needs to be pointed out again and again is that contracting a virus is always against the odds and is always a matter of bad luck if you like, germs operate very successfully on long odds. Nobody is safe, nobody is immune. Obviously HIV though needs other factors to be present whereas the common cold doesn't.

It's confusing for all of us. It seems that HIV transmission is a bit of a 'fuzzy area'. Guess there aren't too many volunteers for research; rather unsurprisingly, but maybe those guys mentioned would give it a go.

[colonelsing]

I am back in US and spoke to nurse here who is in charge of AIDS program at department of corrections. She says there really is a form of AIDS in Thailand and elsewhere in Asia that is more easily spread from women to men and also is more resistant to medication. Myself, I have almost like a phobia of catching this disease and was one of the reasons I had only one girlfriend in the 2 years I was in Thailand. Plus also I really cared for her, but when I first got together with her she agreed to go with me to bangkok Pattaya hospital and have test for HIV and all the other normal STDs which I also took. I dont really trust condoms they sell over there, as I have heard these horror stories about them breaking, but perhaps these are exaggerated so I cannot say. What I will say is that any guy who has sex with anyone in Thailand without precautions, especially with prostitues or bargirls, must be either terribly ignorant and uncaring for other people, or have a death wish.

[12DrinkMore]

Those two old gits, and there are a lot more like them, should be locked up. Basically they are saying they don't give a sh$t anymore and are prepared to infect themselves and any partner with any disease. And maybe somewhere down the line there is YOU or ME. A very high percentage of the working girls have some form of STD and either don't know, don't care or are not prepared to pay to get treated.

In Farangland these men could probably be prosecuted / sued if they infect someone.

A couple of years ago there was an article in one of the German Pattaya magazines written by an old git who had AIDS. Basically he stated that he didn't wear condoms anymore because, for him, it couldn't get any worse. But the two faced git specifically wrote that he strongly recommended that young men should wear condoms to avoid getting infected. So his message was that he didn't care about infecting the young female population of Thailand with AIDS, but that he did care that young Farang men should protect themselves.

I am not a violent person. But if I met someone in a bar with that philosophy, I would have exercise considerable restraint not to use a bottle on his head and a knife on his genitals.

[mgjackson69]

I think contracting aids through hetro vaginal sex is minimal. I have 2 buddies been coming here 20 years and they both in their seventies. They get juiced up on cialis, Viagra usually double dosage and live at the beer garden BKK Neither has ever used a condom ever and wont go with girls that insist. Their excuse is who cares I'm in my seventies and they both have there yearly medical at bumrungrad. Negative every time. Personally I think there nuts but no disputing the results

Pretty damned selfish of those two <deleted>.

I wonder what other crap besides HIV they are carrying and spreading around.

[mgjackson69]

I am not a violent person. But if I met someone in a bar with that philosophy, I would have exercise considerable restraint not to use a bottle on his head and a knife on his genitals.

I was thinking almost exactly that same thing...

[meom]

I think contracting aids through hetro vaginal sex is minimal. I have 2 buddies been coming here 20 years and they both in their seventies. They get juiced up on cialis, Viagra usually double dosage and live at the beer garden BKK Neither has ever used a condom ever and wont go with girls that insist. Their excuse is who cares I'm in my seventies and they both have there yearly medical at bumrungrad. Negative every time. Personally I think there nuts but no disputing the results

Pretty damned selfish of those two <deleted>.

I wonder what other crap besides HIV they are carrying and spreading around.

Yeah it's completely against the Code of Conduct of us honest whoremongers

[mommysboy]

I think contracting aids through hetro vaginal sex is minimal. I have 2 buddies been coming here 20 years and they both in their seventies. They get juiced up on cialis, Viagra usually double dosage and live at the beer garden BKK Neither has ever used a condom ever and wont go with girls that insist. Their excuse is who cares I'm in my seventies and they both have there yearly medical at bumrungrad. Negative every time. Personally I think there nuts but no disputing the results

Pretty damned selfish of those two <deleted>.

I wonder what other crap besides HIV they are carrying and spreading around.

Yeah it's completely against the Code of Conduct of us honest whoremongers

Yes it is a bit rich isn't it?

I'm a bit dubious about all these 3rd hand stories, it's always the old guys who are the baddies too, and most of this thread has been about hearsay really.

So let's stick to what is known, and just surmise that while the risk of contracting HIV is minimal under ordinary circumstances, the odds narrow in and around the fleshpots of Thailand, and morbidity seems to increase around less advantaged people anyway.

Personally, I feel dubious about subtype E being more virulent, probably Thailand just offers more an opportunity for males to acquire it in various ways and means. But I'm no scientist.

I'll say it again, you can't rely on odds to protect you- something that might ordinarily be 100000-1 can radically change when circumstances change, and could conceivably drop to certainty, eg, if the person you are with is highly contagious, and you are run down, and you pick up a teeny scratch, well like car accidents they happen every day, but not to you or me, eh?

Infection is always a matter of long odds anyway with germs thriving on 1000 -1 odds, in a sense then we're always unlucky when we contract something. Such is life I guess, but with HIV we can also minimise the risk dramatically by using condoms. That way it doesn't matter what all those old gits are doing after all youngsters never behave badly do they? purer than the driven snow.