Pension Busting

[JMS]

A company in Pattaya are busting UK pension schemes for a massive 25% fee.

Has anybody done this, and if so tell us about the experience and has the inland revenue caught up with you yet

[Wrong Turn]

A company in Pattaya are busting UK pension schemes for a massive 25% fee.

Has anybody done this, and if so tell us about the experience and has the inland revenue caught up with you yet

Can you give more details. There could be two meaning to what you are saying?

[GungaDin]

What is Pension Busting?

Plain English please.

[Naam]

What is Pension Busting? Plain English please.

you hand over your pension to said company in Pattaya. it is busted, handed back to you and you pay a 25% fee. as simple as that... the OP thinks

[Lite Beer]

What is meant by Busted. Please.

[GuestHouse]

Yep - I hear they are offering an all in one package - They help British Expats in Thailand to withdraw their pension savings (for a reasonable 25% fee) enabling the Brit to extend his stay in 'the sweety shop' until he's completely and utterly pennisless - They then provide an exit strategy for the broke bloke via use of their top floor balcony - They take payment for this in advance on account of the high percentage of punters who can't afford to pay their final bill.

Yes you too can access your pension savings - The short cut to turning a midlife crisis into a late life disaster!

Edited September 8, 2008 by GuestHouse

[cmsally]

Still none the wiser as to what a busted pension is.

[GungaDin]

Still none the wiser as to what a busted pension is.

Same here. Would someone please use plain English instead of Pommie slang.

[samuibeachcomber]

What is Pension Busting? Plain English please.

you hand over your pension to said company in Pattaya. it is busted, handed back to you and you pay a 25% fee. as simple as that... the OP thinks

Naam,i still dont understand?are you talking about someone's private pension,say lump sum,cannot mean govt.pension can it?

[GungaDin]

Here we go> http://www.thepensionsregulator.gov.uk/pdf...onfactsheet.pdf

[lannarebirth]

In normal parlance pension busting is when a corporation seeks avoidance of obligations to pay out pensions to retirees in it's system. It's cutthroat capitalism, unfair, and amazingly bullish for the company's stock. In this instance, from whatI can discern, the OP is talking about taking a present value lump sum payment for a future income stream. Obviously, that would have to be deeply discounted. As Guesthouse rightly points out, for most people (who aren't dying of a terminal disease) it's pretty short sighted and even dumb.

[Wrong Turn]

In normal parlance pension busting is when a corporation seeks avoidance of obligations to pay out pensions to retirees in it's system. It's cutthroat capitalism, unfair, and amazingly bullish for the company's stock. In this instance, from whatI can discern, the OP is talking about taking a present value lump sum payment for a future income stream. Obviously, that would have to be deeply discounted. As Guesthouse rightly points out, for most people (who aren't dying of a terminal disease) it's pretty short sighted and even dumb.

So, these people worked all of their life, or 40 years of their life, to have this scam scenario as an option?

Is there a better option?

Can these companies plead "insolvency" and reduce or cut bennies?

[lannarebirth]

In normal parlance pension busting is when a corporation seeks avoidance of obligations to pay out pensions to retirees in it's system. It's cutthroat capitalism, unfair, and amazingly bullish for the company's stock. In this instance, from whatI can discern, the OP is talking about taking a present value lump sum payment for a future income stream. Obviously, that would have to be deeply discounted. As Guesthouse rightly points out, for most people (who aren't dying of a terminal disease) it's pretty short sighted and even dumb.

So, these people worked all of their life, or 40 years of their life, to have this scam scenario as an option?

Is there a better option?

Can these companies plead "insolvency" and reduce or cut bennies?

The OP was unclear what he meant. Of the two examples I cited, this is an example of the first kind:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7804770/

However, I don't think that's what the OP meant, and think perhaps he was describingmy latter example.

[GuestHouse]

In normal parlance pension busting is when a corporation seeks avoidance of obligations to pay out pensions to retirees in it's system. It's cutthroat capitalism, unfair, and amazingly bullish for the company's stock. In this instance, from whatI can discern, the OP is talking about taking a present value lump sum payment for a future income stream. Obviously, that would have to be deeply discounted. As Guesthouse rightly points out, for most people (who aren't dying of a terminal disease) it's pretty short sighted and even dumb.

So, these people worked all of their life, or 40 years of their life, to have this scam scenario as an option?

Is there a better option?

Can these companies plead "insolvency" and reduce or cut bennies?

Firstly the 'Pension Busting' being referred to is the use of QROPS to move pensions offshore and away from UK legislation - So this relates to UK Occupational and UK Private Pension Funds. So excuse the UK bias in this reply.

There is a lot, and I mean a lot, of misinformation being put out by the chancers selling QROPS in Thailand (and if they are charging for the service - they are selling).

Let's put some of this misinformation to rest.

Your Pension is at risk in the UK if the company goes bust - Almost certainly your pension is not at risk in the UK if your employer goes bust. There are a number of protections under UK law - Pension laws have been changed to remove Company control over the funds in Pensions - The UK Pension Protection Fund provides substantial protections for qualifying schemes (almost all schemes qualify).

The Robert Maxwell Bogy Man is going to get your pension - No he is not - It was in response to the Robert Maxwell scandal the the UK Government tightened up UK Pension law providing a separation between employer and fund and removing loop holes that could be used to access pension funds.

Your Employer can cut the benefits you will receive - Your employer can cut the benefits that you build up in the future (ie they can change the build up of benefits from today onwards, or from tomorrow onwards - They cannot change the benefits that you have already built up - Those are in the bank out of reach of your employer.

Be very clear about this - The UK offers very good legal and financial protections to pension funds and pension fund rights holders - These are glossed over or not even mentioned by QROPS salesmen in Thailand.

Example: If you are living in Thailand and have an occupational pension that is 'deferred' in the UK - That is you left your pension fund with your former employer then you have 'Deferred Pension Rights' - Under UK pension law these 'Deferred Pension Rights' give you more protections over your pension than your old work mates that are still working and still paying into the pension fund have.

FACT - In order for a financial advisor in the UK to give advice and assist in transferring a UK pension off shore he must hold a certification from the UK Government to do so - This is in addition to the regulations and laws governing financial advisors in the UK.

FACT - A financial advisor in the UK is subject to UK law - If he gives you wrong advice that causes you financial loss you can claim compensation in a UK court.

FACT - The people selling QROPS in Thailand are not covered by UK Law, you do not get any protections under UK law from these unregulated salesmen.

It's as simple as this.

The UK government has changes to UK law to allow people to move their pension funds off shore - This has been spotted as a GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY by the sharks that make up Thailand's Farang Financial Services Advisors.

Taking your pension offshore might be a good idea for some people, it is an extremely bad idea for others - For all there are a number of complex issues to be understood, taxation, future residence being just two.

If you want to look into these things then do the smart thing - GET ADVICE FROM A UK BASED ADVISOR WHO IS GOVERNED BY UK LAW AND WHO YOU CAN CLAIM AGAINST IF THEY GIVE YOU THE WRONG ADVICE.

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO USE A THAILAND BASED FARANG FINANCIAL ADVISOR - THEY ARE UN REGULATED AND IF YOU DO HAVE A PROBLEM YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO THE THAI COURTS........ WHY OH WHY WOULD ANYONE TAKE THE RISK???

[Naam]

What is Pension Busting? Plain English please.

you hand over your pension to said company in Pattaya. it is busted, handed back to you and you pay a 25% fee. as simple as that... the OP thinks

Naam,i still dont understand?are you talking about someone's private pension,say lump sum,cannot mean govt.pension can it?

sorry mate, i was just joking and have no idea about busting pensions

[GuestHouse]

What is Pension Busting? Plain English please.

you hand over your pension to said company in Pattaya. it is busted, handed back to you and you pay a 25% fee. as simple as that... the OP thinks

Naam,i still dont understand?are you talking about someone's private pension,say lump sum,cannot mean govt.pension can it?

Occupational Pensions and Private Pensions Yes. State Pensions NO.

[JMS]

A company in Pattaya are busting UK pension schemes for a massive 25% fee.

Has anybody done this, and if so tell us about the experience and has the inland revenue caught up with you yet

Can you give more details. There could be two meaning to what you are saying?

I will try to explain this a little bit better.

The company in question advertises by posters in bars or by word of mouth that you can have all your pension money (does not matter what age you are) from any company or private pension scheme that you have less a 25% fee. I do not know how they do it that is why I posted this to see if anyone has done it. Also as this is illegal has anybody been prosecuted by the inland revenue

[GungaDin]

If the 25% rip-offs in Pattaya can do it, you should be able to do it yourself (legally) or thru a reg'd broker as outlined in my link above.

Unless you had only weeks or months to live, I don't see the point.

[johnnyk]

Yep - I hear they are offering an all in one package - They help British Expats in Thailand to withdraw their pension savings [(for a reasonable 25% fee)] enabling the Brit to extend his stay in 'the sweety shop' until he's completely and utterly pennisless - They then provide an exit strategy for the broke bloke via use of their top floor balcony - They take payment for this in advance on account of the high percentage of punters who can't afford to pay their final bill.

Yes you too can access your pension savings - The short cut to turning a midlife crisis into a late life disaster!

25% = reasonable? Maybe for drunken fools. Even Al Capone wasn't that "reasonable".

Edited September 9, 2008 by johnnyk

[UKresonant]

For uk deferred pensioners, Can't imagine why anyone would need an agent,without first writing to the Pension trustee's.

Most would allow early withdrawal or in the worst case a transfer to a private pension. (when you move it you tend to loose a bit)

Minimum age 50 until 31st March 2010, then 55 years from the 2010-2011 tax year onwards.

DB Co.pensions, 20 times pension value say 12000per annum, gives 240000 cash equivelent, x25% = 60000 tax free max. (of the 12000 you would have to give up perhaps 4300of the annual pension for the 60000lump sum) you would give that to an agent, your Nuts!

Persons giving advice should be actuary qualified, not justa financial advisor!

[GuestHouse]

25% = reasonable? Maybe for drunken fools. Even Al Capone wasn't that "reasonable".

I was being sarcastic.

---

JohnW demonstrates just what a rip off this scam is - Thankfully the last guy selling this service on TV has been kicked off and his advertising posts have been deleted.

Let's hope it stays that way - These schemes are a serious threat to the financial welfare of expats in Thailand