Thai Stock Index Plummets, Hits lowest since 2003

[brahmburgers]

US businesses are sooooooo stretched out and dependent on borrowing that this imbroglio was bound to happen. Much of the same could be said for businesses in oother countries. Of course, it's not just businesses and banks, but the regular folks also - who constantly leverage beyond their means.

Many businesses, even established ones, rely on large daily inputs of borrowed money in order to meet payroll and all other of their expenses. Same goes for pension payments their to former workers. The dominos have started to click, and it's bound to keep going.

Edited October 7, 2008 by brahmburgers

[AlKing]

I wonder how the Thai market is going to open today.

Can I jump of the building twice, just to make sure that I am really dead.

[sriracha john]

It promptly dropped another 2.58% at opening...

SET

537.54 -14.26

Edited October 7, 2008 by sriracha john

[larvidchr]

but morally and ethically this one really is one you should take care of on your own, and an apology from your Politicians to the non American tax payers around the World who now have to help foot this bill and indirectly support US home-owners, would be quite in order.

How exactly are you or any other non-American tax payers footing the bill and/or indirectly supporting US home-owners? Be specific please.

One of the ways have been the hundreds of billions of Dollars, the amongst others, most European central Banks was forced to pump into the system to support the Dollar a few weeks ago, and now the Governments supporting or buying up of many big European financial institutions who would otherwise fold under the burden from their US sub prime investments thus making the State the bearer/part bearer of the risk involved with these loans. The money used for these purposes is TAX PAYER money, get it?

Ireland, England and Germany being examples of country's that effectively have nationalised financial institutions to save them from folding, whatever future losses those institutions might have to take will be on the backs of the tax payers, the point being that the need to buy, and those perhaps future losses have not come mainly from risky domestic investments, but from the US sub prime scam.

I'll ask the same question again: How are you specifically footing the bill and/or indirectly supporting US home-owners?

In the first paragraph, you mention the ECB has pumped liquidity into the monetary system. Ok fine, I'll buy that. But this has been done as part of a larger strategy to keep inflation under control (I think the reported target is no higher than 4.1%). How does this relate to you footing the bill and subsidizing US home-owners?

In the second paragraph, it sounds like you are blaming the socialist nature of European governments on the subprime problem, which would hardly be true would it? And as far as socialized businesses possibly suffering losses and potentionally pushing those losses on to the backs of taxpayers, I only have a few questions in response:

- Has such action by the ECB and other central banks affected you personally as yet? If so how?

- What is the direct (or indirect) subsidy relationship between you and a US home-owner?

- What the heck are governments doing playing around in the commodities markets in the first place? (and making very poor investment decisions to boot)

- Isn't there something fundamentally wrong with that? If I were you, I would be more pissed off at my home government for being so stupid and for having nationalized these businesses in the first place.

- Shouldn't this crisis be a call to action to Europeans and other affected nations to de-socialize, de-centralize and reduce the size and complexity of their elected governments?

As I've suggested before, there is always opportunity in faillure, just as there is opportunity in success. Shouldn't Europeans and other nations use this example of governmental failure as positive motivation and opportunity to reclaim their individual economic freedom from their government and rally to insist that their governments stick to the business of governing, and leave the business of running businesses to the businessmen (and women)?

The US Government called directly and requested the support, and Bush asked for it on television, it was to protect the Dollar from collapsing during a few very hectic days, and to protect it from taking a steep dive in value.

My Government is as capitalist as they come, and the support given to the troubled Banks is given very reluctantly, and only because of fear of population loss of confidence in the domestic banking system + preventing innocent people from loosing their savings.

By keeping the banks afloat the mortgage holders in the US will not loose their homes, exactly the same reason why your own Government have chosen to support certain investment banks, whether You or I like this approach is another matter entirely. But if it was not for the US Government applying pressure on your own banking system to give loans to people who did not normally economically qualify at the rate of 40 something % of their total loan portfolio, this problem would not exist, no matter how much you squirm or jump this whole problem originates from the US and the US sub prime lending system.

Our Governments in Europe have had absolutely nothing to do with it or any power to stop or change this way of financing homes in the US. So the pissing will start in your yard and then if we have anything left we can carry on at home, but first things first

It affects the Tax payers directly in the way that the money the Government now are forced to use supporting private banks surviving a problem originating from the US, could and should have been used in other much better ways, improving the quality of life for the citizens who have paid the money in the first place.

US home owners defaulting on their loans will give direct losses to the TAX payers forced now to be co investors in institutions holding those bad loans.

And no, business Woman and Men should be as free to run their thing as possible, but blind trust is a fools game, as many former world famous cases notably from your country shows. Expecting high levels of self-imposed moral and ethical behaviour from people hel_l bent only on making as much money for themselves as possible would be as stupid as jumping naked from Sears Tower believing you can fly.

Finally, when you have, (for society much cheaper than yours) free high quality healthcare, absolutely free high quality education for all, free roads, free libraries, as low a crime rate as us (so low compared to yours that you properly would faint learning about it) no vast slum ghettos, everybody being in the middle-class with no people under the poverty line and with a higher general standard of living than yours, and for my country specific the lowest level of corruption in the world according to the newest international study, as low pollution levels aso. aso. the list is endless, you can start giving advise how to run Governments and how much should be decentralised or de-socialized, it is true that our Government system is quite complex, and this is properly your problem, You just don't get it!!, but then again you are excused we after all started many years before you even had a Nation.

Just to clarify that this is in no way an anti US rant, I like Americans have good American friends, my Country and I support the war on terror and have done so with flesh on the ground since day one, the first and second Iraq war, Afghanistan, Bosnia and Albania, I will be eternally grateful for your help in preserving our freedom during 2 World war, but it is time you wake up and stop believing that you are the best in the World in everything, because this is simply not true, it comes from your low interest in what happens in the outside World (why should you care when you are the best) and your sad lack of information about same in your schools and your media.

Now if you will excuse me, I will say thank you, for your sentiments, but will for my part end it here, I wish you well.

The best of regards,

larvidchr

[younghusband]

In the meantime a writer in the Financial Times has some thoughtful ideas about the Asian bond market:

Asia bond could save us from the dollar

By Thaksin Shinawatra

Published: October 6 2008 19:37 | Last updated: October 6 2008 19:37

Asia has an opportunity to save itself, and the world economy, from the crushing excesses of Wall Street. China and Japan, with other Asian countries holding substantial surplus reserves, should act now to create an Asia bond to contain the fallout from a weak dollar.

I hope my US friends will not see this as an ungrateful act of abandoning a ship in trouble. On the contrary, my plan will keep the ship in service, as it is repaired. This is the best way for countries that have benefited from the American century to repay their debt.

The prosperity in Asia – created by US investment and trade – has spawned problems for the US. East Asia’s current account surpluses have averaged $400bn over the past decade, while the US current account deficit runs at an annual average of $800bn . Asian countries, other than Japan, accumulated the surpluses largely by supplying cheap goods and services to the US. They can no longer rely on this one major market given that America’s ability to sustain consumer spending is severely curtailed. Having parked most of their surpluses in the currency that was most convertible – the dollar – Asian countries face the prospect of losing as much as the country that issued the currency. Most of Asia’s sovereign surpluses are in US dollar-denominated equity and notes and Treasury bills. Is there a way to protect the value of these as the US economy finds its feet? Asia’s reserves could be turned into Asia bonds that, without losing their value, could be used to stimulate investment and trade in Asia.

An Asia bond would not be a self-centred zero-sum game. It could offer an opportunity for wealth creation across the world. Three billion Asians want their governments to invest their hard-earned surpluses in tangible productive capacity that they can see rather than playing with paper investments, such as esoteric derivatives.

The bond will be denominated in, shall we say, global dollars or “globars” (if you like the allusion to the shiny metal bars that were once the universal standard currency). The International Monetary Fund could play a consultative or managerial role in maintaining the value of this global or offshore dollar while the national currency of the US settles down to a level that suits its economic needs.

What happens if the new US administration is not farsighted enough to agree to a separate standard for external dollars? Asian governments could still issue these bonds incrementally as they accumulate new surpluses. China, Japan, Korea, Singapore and Thailand could agree to pool some of their reserves in a certain ratio into a basket of currencies to issue a bond. The return on this bond will be the same or higher than those on US Treasury bills as the issuers of the bond have a better ability to pay than the US government.

The dilemma for investors is judging political risks in Asia. The Taliban will continue in Afghanistan and Pakistan but these countries’ role in issuing and managing the Asia bond will be nominal. Another poison gas explosion in the Japanese underground will not undermine Japan’s capacity to honour its commitments. Risk is relative. I would rather bet on China’s authorities – who ignored the prediction offered 18 months ago by Hank Paulson, the US Treasury secretary, that they risked trillions of dollars in lost economic potential unless they freed their capital markets. That seems wiser than praying to God that the US soon finds a credible model of economic growth and for regulation of financial institutions.

To those familiar with bond markets, this may not seem a revolutionary proposal. It is not. A number of Asian governments issue bonds in their own currencies. Their quality and performance vary. Asian bond returns, taken in conjunction with their volatility, compare unfavourably with their US Treasury counterparts, market by market. However, an aggregate of Asian bonds gives a more positive picture. Part of the problem is the historical perception, perpetuated by rating agencies, that Asian countries are all borrowers, just as the US has become. Now, some of these countries are there to lend. It is time they reaped the premium that is theirs as lenders. The value of their loans will be better protected if they take collective decisions.

Their collective bond could be traded in Tokyo, Singapore and Hong Kong. This bond would contribute to the development of a healthy capital market in the region that can remain stable while the US works its way through its financial crises. The greatest benefit would be that Asia’s surpluses will be recycled into productive assets in Asia.

The writer is the former prime minister of Thailand

[animatic]

He is a wonder.

The Asian Bond, a new method for graft of international proportions,

masquerading as helping the world save itself.

And who is going to administer this Asian Bond.

Who is going to control the influx of cash it generates...

MEGA PROJECTS HOOO!

Not content with bringing Thailand to it's knees,

he wants a piece of everybody's pie.

Hubris of an ego beyond redemption.

But it was worded so well. Great script writers

[Spee]

He is a wonder.

Hubris of an ego beyond redemption.

But it was worded so well. Great script writers

All it shows me is how really delusional and clueless that the guy actually is, outside of his own experiences from a limited scope position of power and responsibility, which he used to expand pervasive corruption and line his own pockets and those of his cronies. Outside of Thailand, he is viewed as just another banana republic tinpot crooked politician, like so many others before him in other countries. He has little or no power or influence outside of very limited circles. I'm sure those outside of the circles, who wield the real power and ability to influence change, are quietly snickering and chuckling at him behind his back, if they have even read this nonsense at all.

[animatic]

He is a wonder.

Hubris of an ego beyond redemption.

But it was worded so well. Great script writers

All it shows me is how really delusional and clueless that the guy actually is, outside of his own experiences from a limited scope position of power and responsibility, which he used to expand pervasive corruption and line his own pockets and those of his cronies. Outside of Thailand, he is viewed as just another banana republic tinpot crooked politician, like so many others before him in other countries. He has little or no power or influence outside of very limited circles. I'm sure those outside of the circles, who wield the real power and ability to influence change, are quietly snickering and chuckling at him behind his back, if they have even read this nonsense at all.

On re-reading it, it just beggars and buggers comprehension.

“globars” , and lets help the US economy by stopping dollar transactions

and now use “globars” Well gee who's gonna pay dollars for globars

and where do those dollars go to after the “globars” are bought.

Delusional certainly.

And also for the EDITOR who let this go to press, UNLESS...

he was trying to let Thaky hang himself by his own petard

on the world stage...?

Love this one

"The value of their loans will be better protected if they take collective decisions."

AH! ~The ASEAN BOND...

these guys have trouble holding a meeting,

and disciplining Burma let along controlling a world class bond issue.

Hello, Kunying Tharisa?

How is your revolving seat at the bond confidence control chair coming this week..

Not panicking are you?

OH! China told you what to do,

by channeling Chalerm, good, good,

all's well then.

Wanna buy a bridge in Brooklyn?

Hey, I give you ~GOOD deal,

I love you too much!

Edited October 7, 2008 by animatic

[plachon]

He is a wonder.

The Asian Bond, a new method for graft of international proportions,

masquerading as helping the world save itself.

And who is going to administer this Asian Bond.

Who is going to control the influx of cash it generates...

MEGA PROJECTS HOOO!

Not content with bringing Thailand to it's knees,

he wants a piece of everybody's pie.

Hubris of an ego beyond redemption.

But it was worded so well. Great script writers

Overlooking the fact that Toxin didn't write this piece himself but commissioned it through one of his hired PR firms, what really beggars belief about it, was his presumption to speak for "three billion Asians". He's worse than old Lee Kuan Yew in terms of arrogance. At least LKY actually created surpluses, but what did Toxin do? - create the biggest debt mountain for ordinary people that Thailand has ever known, which will take years for future govts to dig their way out of. A bit like his "American friends" in the White House in that respect, so at least they are talking the same language. Wonder if GWB remembers that annoying square headed guy he snubbed at the APEC meeting, who is now pretending they were best friends during the "american century"!!!!

[LaoPo]

I'm afraid the Mods have to change the thread title...

SET hit lowest point since August 2003 - a 5 year low:

528.71 Change -23.090 -4.184% on Tuesday, October 7, 2008

LaoPo

[Spee]

SET hit lowest point since August 2003 - a 5 year low:

528.71 Change -23.090 -4.184% on Tuesday, October 7, 2008

All this does is show how the vast majority of people prefer to follow the herd rather than to think and act for themselves.

If people are indeed collectively selling off and acting correctly, then the various stocks were generally way way over-valued to start with. On the other hand, if people are selling off stock of profitable, stable, sound businesses, just because the rest of the herd is doing likewise, then they are not only acting incorrectly, but behaving foolishly as well.

The stock of these profitable, stable, sound businesses will not only rebound, but will rebound much faster and higher than lesser businesses. This is what makes them valuable to hold on to.

But like I've said several times in this thread, there is always opportunity in failure just as there is opportunity in success. The smart investors will be gathering all the liquidity they can muster and go bargain hunting in the bottoming market. Selfishly, I'm hoping the bottoming holds for a few months at which time I will have a lot more money available to invest.

Similarly for lower middle, middle and upper middle class people in Thailand with available capital, this market downswing is potentially a great opportunity to make some sound investments and pick up some good bargains in the process.

This is a half-empty, half-full scenario. The cup is half-empty because of all the government meddling, fraud, and essentially feloneous activity. The cup is also half-full because the stampeding herds have driven down the stock prices of otherwise stable companies, thereby creating value buying opportunity.

Look at it this way. If a large retail company in Thailand went belly-up through gross mismanagement and had to sell off all of their inventory at half price to quickly generate a large amount of cash revenue, the situation would be quite similar. A few people would have a cup half-empty scenario because of the mismanagement creating a loss. Many other people would have a cup half-full scenario because the marked down prices would create buying opportunity that might not otherwise be available.

Smart people and smart investors will be vieweing these downturns in the same manner. The very smartest people, as well as the most active and involved people, will demand change, reform and reduction in government policies and operations.

Everyone has heard parable adaptation of people having "the Midas touch." Everything they touch turns to "gold."

Well most governments have the "the Sidam touch." Everything they touch turns to "shit."

Edited October 7, 2008 by Spee

[LaoPo]

SET hit lowest point since August 2003 - a 5 year low:

528.71 Change -23.090 -4.184% on Tuesday, October 7, 2008

All this does is show how the vast majority of people prefer to follow the herd rather than to think and act for themselves.

If people are indeed collectively selling off and acting correctly, then the various stocks were generally way way over-valued to start with. On the other hand, if people are selling off stock of profitable, stable, sound businesses, just because the rest of the herd is doing likewise, then they are not only acting incorrectly, but behaving foolishly as well.

Your comment is a bit off the reality.

Better have a look here who are the Local Individual/Institutional investors and foreign buyers/sellers at the SET. Only then you could make a comment instead that the vast majority of people follow the herd..rather than to think and act for themselves

It's just something YOU are assuming.

http://www.set.or.th/set/investortype.do?l...&country=US This is from October 6 as data from 7th are not available yet.

LaoPo

[animatic]

Institutional investors are sadly not immune to the herd panic mentality.

The NYSE put in percentage drop auto closing systems to shut down trading

JUST because block investors were panicking about the HUNDREDS of explanation calls

they would have to take or make if they didn't bail from a too speculative position

that was heading south fast.

Buy at a reasonable point and hold.

Buy bonds from reputable entities.

Let them work for you, don't panic sell.

Cardinal rules of successful investing to survive economic fluctuations.

[sriracha john]

Another day, another opening plunge...

Thai shares open 2.23 per cent lower

Thai stocks dropped 11.77 points or 2.23 per cent when the market was open for trading Wednesday morning.

The composite index of the Stock Exchange of Thailand dropped to 516.94 at 10:03 am with a trading value of Bt835.51 million.

- The Nation / 2008-10-08

[sriracha john]

The SET has now crashed through the 500 mark...

SET

496.67 -32.04

[Old Man River]

The SET has now crashed through the 500 mark...

SET

496.67 -32.04

BBL at 86? Prices are really starting to get attractive. It looks like its getting near the time to get the checkbook out.

[pete_r]

Overlooking the fact that Toxin didn't write this piece himself but commissioned it through one of his hired PR firms, what really beggars belief about it, was his presumption to speak for "three billion Asians". He's worse than old Lee Kuan Yew in terms of arrogance. At least LKY actually created surpluses, but what did Toxin do? - create the biggest debt mountain for ordinary people that Thailand has ever known, which will take years for future govts to dig their way out of. A bit like his "American friends" in the White House in that respect, so at least they are talking the same language. Wonder if GWB remembers that annoying square headed guy he snubbed at the APEC meeting, who is now pretending they were best friends during the "american century"!!!!

If you are talking about consumers debts, I may agree with you, as credit cards and other financial gadgets were unhealthily promoted during the Thaksin era.

However if it is the external debt you have in mind, this actually decreased under the Thaksin administration, and started to go back up the year of the coup in 2006, with the highest increase in 2007 under the Surayud administration. In any case Thailand's external debt remains relatively low at 37.9% of GDP, compared to Singapore at 96.3% (since you mentioned Lee Kuan Yew), the USA at 60.8%, or the UK at 43.6% (source: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/th.../2186rank.html).

Thailand's external debt chart from 2000 to 2008: http://indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=th&v=94

[sriracha john]

The SET has now crashed through the 500 mark...

SET

496.67 -32.04

BBL at 86? Prices are really starting to get attractive. It looks like its getting near the time to get the checkbook out.

It's falling further... approaching a one day drop of 10%

SET @ 15:35

485.81 -42.90

[LaoPo]

SET hit lowest point since August 2003 - a 5 year low:

528.71 Change -23.090 -4.184% on Tuesday, October 7, 2008

All this does is show how the vast majority of people prefer to follow the herd rather than to think and act for themselves.

If people are indeed collectively selling off and acting correctly, then the various stocks were generally way way over-valued to start with. On the other hand, if people are selling off stock of profitable, stable, sound businesses, just because the rest of the herd is doing likewise, then they are not only acting incorrectly, but behaving foolishly as well.

Your comment is a bit off the reality.

Better have a look here who are the Local Individual/Institutional investors and foreign buyers/sellers at the SET. Only then you could make a comment instead that the vast majority of people follow the herd..rather than to think and act for themselves

It's just something YOU are assuming.

http://www.set.or.th/set/investortype.do?l...&country=US This is from October 6 as data from 7th are not available yet.

LaoPo

As for your: "All this does is show how the vast majority of people prefer to follow the herd rather than to think and act for themselves."...it would be interesting to have a look what kind of behavior LOCAL INDIVIDUALS (Thai) show versus the LOCAL INSTITUTIONS and FOREIGN buyers and sellers.

It shows (but, in fact nothing new) that INDIVIDUALS invest, buy or sell contrary to what Institutions do on stock markets...

Meaning, if individuals would just study a little more and follow the institutions, they wouldn't lose so much money...

http://www.set.or.th/set/investortype.do?l...&country=US Daily as of 7 October 2008

LaoPo

[Old Man River]

The SET has now crashed through the 500 mark...

SET

496.67 -32.04

BBL at 86? Prices are really starting to get attractive. It looks like its getting near the time to get the checkbook out.

It's falling further... approaching a one day drop of 10%

SET @ 15:35

485.81 -42.90

Not all are falling further. The one's I am interested in are actually rebounding somewhat. Well, there is always tomorrow.

[Old Man River]

SET hit lowest point since August 2003 - a 5 year low:

528.71 Change -23.090 -4.184% on Tuesday, October 7, 2008

All this does is show how the vast majority of people prefer to follow the herd rather than to think and act for themselves.

If people are indeed collectively selling off and acting correctly, then the various stocks were generally way way over-valued to start with. On the other hand, if people are selling off stock of profitable, stable, sound businesses, just because the rest of the herd is doing likewise, then they are not only acting incorrectly, but behaving foolishly as well.

Your comment is a bit off the reality.

Better have a look here who are the Local Individual/Institutional investors and foreign buyers/sellers at the SET. Only then you could make a comment instead that the vast majority of people follow the herd..rather than to think and act for themselves

It's just something YOU are assuming.

http://www.set.or.th/set/investortype.do?l...&country=US This is from October 6 as data from 7th are not available yet.

LaoPo

As for your: "All this does is show how the vast majority of people prefer to follow the herd rather than to think and act for themselves."...it would be interesting to have a look what kind of behavior LOCAL INDIVIDUALS (Thai) show versus the LOCAL INSTITUTIONS and FOREIGN buyers and sellers.

It shows (but, in fact nothing new) that INDIVIDUALS invest, buy or sell contrary to what Institutions do on stock markets...

Meaning, if individuals would just study a little more and follow the institutions, they wouldn't lose so much money...

http://www.set.or.th/set/investortype.do?l...&country=US Daily as of 7 October 2008

LaoPo

Not all individuals are clueless. On the blue chips, large individual buyers are often the execs of those same companies. They know the value of their companies and know the foreign buyers will come back. They can wait. It is a smart play. They have done it before and will be doing it now.

[LaoPo]

Not all individuals are clueless. On the blue chips, large individual buyers are often the execs of those same companies. They know the value of their companies and know the foreign buyers will come back. They can wait. It is a smart play. They have done it before and will be doing it now.

..good to hear !

blue The way you write it is considered ''inside information''...that's a dangerous play.

But maybe I misunderstood you.

LaoPo

[animatic]

Not all individuals are clueless. On the blue chips, large individual buyers are often the execs of those same companies. They know the value of their companies and know the foreign buyers will come back. They can wait. It is a smart play. They have done it before and will be doing it now.

..good to hear !

blue The way you write it is considered ''inside information''...that's a dangerous play.

But maybe I misunderstood you.

LaoPo

Buying into your own company stocks with along term outlook isn't insider trading.

with say a 5 year no sell clause etc.

Buying or dumping stocks from knowledge NOT commonly known to all,

and to profit handsomely from the special knowledge, IS insider trading.

Another for is artificial perception manipulation.

Creating the appearance of a potential very bad situation,

then talking down the stock waiting untill it tanks,

then buying it up, shortly to reveal that the problem

was never serious, oops bad perception.

But hey I bought it up anyway.

[LaoPo]

Not all individuals are clueless. On the blue chips, large individual buyers are often the execs of those same companies. They know the value of their companies and know the foreign buyers will come back. They can wait. It is a smart play. They have done it before and will be doing it now.

..good to hear !

blue The way you write it is considered ''inside information''...that's a dangerous play.

But maybe I misunderstood you.

LaoPo

Buying into your own company stocks with along term outlook isn't insider trading.

with say a 5 year no sell clause etc.

Buying or dumping stocks from knowledge NOT commonly known to all,

and to profit handsomely from the special knowledge, IS insider trading.

Another for is artificial perception manipulation.

Creating the appearance of a potential very bad situation,

then talking down the stock waiting untill it tanks,

then buying it up, shortly to reveal that the problem

was never serious, oops bad perception.

But hey I bought it up anyway.

Thank you for jumping in with your comments. I'm aware of what you say.

We were talking about normal fluctuations and daily buying/selling on the SET and Old Man River wrote that "Not all individuals are clueless. On the blue chips, large individual buyers are often the execs of those same companies"

It was written in a style that was understood as if those executives were trading... and that's why I wrote: "The way you write it....".....and""But maybe I misunderstood you.""

We were not discussing shares or even options, owned by executives of certain companies.

Thank you.

LaoPo

[Old Man River]

Not all individuals are clueless. On the blue chips, large individual buyers are often the execs of those same companies. They know the value of their companies and know the foreign buyers will come back. They can wait. It is a smart play. They have done it before and will be doing it now.

..good to hear !

blue The way you write it is considered ''inside information''...that's a dangerous play.

But maybe I misunderstood you.

LaoPo

Buying into your own company stocks with along term outlook isn't insider trading.

with say a 5 year no sell clause etc.

Buying or dumping stocks from knowledge NOT commonly known to all,

and to profit handsomely from the special knowledge, IS insider trading.

Another for is artificial perception manipulation.

Creating the appearance of a potential very bad situation,

then talking down the stock waiting untill it tanks,

then buying it up, shortly to reveal that the problem

was never serious, oops bad perception.

But hey I bought it up anyway.

Thank you for jumping in with your comments. I'm aware of what you say.

We were talking about normal fluctuations and daily buying/selling on the SET and Old Man River wrote that "Not all individuals are clueless. On the blue chips, large individual buyers are often the execs of those same companies"

It was written in a style that was understood as if those executives were trading... and that's why I wrote: "The way you write it....".....and""But maybe I misunderstood you.""

We were not discussing shares or even options, owned by executives of certain companies.

Thank you.

LaoPo

I didn't mean insider trading. I should have said that upfront. Nothing illegal about their purchases at all. For me, I am glad to see it as it shows they are putting their own money into the companies they manage during troubled times.

[LaoPo]

I didn't mean insider trading. I should have said that upfront. Nothing illegal about their purchases at all. For me, I am glad to see it as it shows they are putting their own money into the companies they manage during troubled times.

Executives of Stock Market listed companies, trading (which is buying AND selling) with their own money during troubled times in the stock of that same company is NOT insider trading ?

Maybe I have different perspectives about stock market rules...

LaoPo

[Old Man River]

I didn't mean insider trading. I should have said that upfront. Nothing illegal about their purchases at all. For me, I am glad to see it as it shows they are putting their own money into the companies they manage during troubled times.

Executives of Stock Market listed companies, trading (which is buying AND selling) with their own money during troubled times in the stock of that same company is NOT insider trading ?

Maybe I have different perspectives about stock market rules...

LaoPo

I know what trading is, but thanks for the definition anyway. While I personally don't know of any that have "played" the stock market with their own stock, I do know some directors that have purchased shares of companies they manage when prices dropped. In fact it was mentioned recently in one of the newspapers. I for one like to see these guys putting their own money up.

[LaoPo]

I didn't mean insider trading. I should have said that upfront. Nothing illegal about their purchases at all. For me, I am glad to see it as it shows they are putting their own money into the companies they manage during troubled times.

Executives of Stock Market listed companies, trading (which is buying AND selling) with their own money during troubled times in the stock of that same company is NOT insider trading ?

Maybe I have different perspectives about stock market rules...

LaoPo

I know what trading is, but thanks for the definition anyway. While I personally don't know of any that have "played" the stock market with their own stock, I do know some directors that have purchased shares of companies they manage when prices dropped. In fact it was mentioned recently in one of the newspapers. I for one like to see these guys putting their own money up.

Well, maybe it's (insider trading) allowed in Corporate Thailand; wouldn't surprise me if one takes the countries' infamous corruption into consideration.

LaoPo

[Old Man River]

I didn't mean insider trading. I should have said that upfront. Nothing illegal about their purchases at all. For me, I am glad to see it as it shows they are putting their own money into the companies they manage during troubled times.

Executives of Stock Market listed companies, trading (which is buying AND selling) with their own money during troubled times in the stock of that same company is NOT insider trading ?

Maybe I have different perspectives about stock market rules...

LaoPo

I know what trading is, but thanks for the definition anyway. While I personally don't know of any that have "played" the stock market with their own stock, I do know some directors that have purchased shares of companies they manage when prices dropped. In fact it was mentioned recently in one of the newspapers. I for one like to see these guys putting their own money up.

Well, maybe it's (insider trading) allowed in Corporate Thailand; wouldn't surprise me if one takes the countries' infamous corruption into consideration.

LaoPo

You are commenting about a market you don't fully understand. The SET isn't like other markets that you know. In Thailand when you take a company public you don't float 100% ownership in the company. In fact, 50% or more of the shares issued and outstanding of a listed firm are often not publicly traded.

[Old Man River]

I didn't mean insider trading. I should have said that upfront. Nothing illegal about their purchases at all. For me, I am glad to see it as it shows they are putting their own money into the companies they manage during troubled times.

Executives of Stock Market listed companies, trading (which is buying AND selling) with their own money during troubled times in the stock of that same company is NOT insider trading ?

Maybe I have different perspectives about stock market rules...

LaoPo

I know what trading is, but thanks for the definition anyway. While I personally don't know of any that have "played" the stock market with their own stock, I do know some directors that have purchased shares of companies they manage when prices dropped. In fact it was mentioned recently in one of the newspapers. I for one like to see these guys putting their own money up.

Well, maybe it's (insider trading) allowed in Corporate Thailand; wouldn't surprise me if one takes the countries' infamous corruption into consideration.

LaoPo

You are commenting about a market you don't fully understand. The SET isn't like other markets that you know. In Thailand when you take a company public you don't float 100% ownership in the company. In fact, 50% or more of the shares issued and outstanding of a listed firm are often not publicly traded.

LaoPo, as an addendum to my comment above, the link below (public info) gives the amount of free float on listed stocks.

http://capital.sec.or.th/webapp/freefloat/freefloate.php