U.s. Banking Crisis: Capitalism "gone Wild"?

[midas]

If you would have listened a little better to a few here on the board, including myself, you wouldn't have to wonder now if you should stay cash....

Stay cash, grab your gains, and stay cash again. Sit still..and don't move until the hairdresser is finished. He's a slow old guy !

LaoPo

LaoPo I am in cash and agree with your comments. But I am interested in your opinion

of Marc Fabers other recent suggestion to buy up farmland ? His theory being that as the forthcoming

" chaos " starts to unwind over the next few years, an increasing number of people may

want to leave the conurbations to do their " own thing " ?

[lannarebirth]

If you would have listened a little better to a few here on the board, including myself, you wouldn't have to wonder now if you should stay cash....

Stay cash, grab your gains, and stay cash again. Sit still..and don't move until the hairdresser is finished. He's a slow old guy !

LaoPo

LaoPo I am in cash and agree with your comments. But I am interested in your opinion

of Marc Fabers other recent suggestion to buy up farmland ? His theory being that as the forthcoming

" chaos " starts to unwind over the next few years, an increasing number of people may

want to leave the conurbations to do their " own thing " ?

I think me may have gotten that idea from me.

[midas]

If you would have listened a little better to a few here on the board, including myself, you wouldn't have to wonder now if you should stay cash....

Stay cash, grab your gains, and stay cash again. Sit still..and don't move until the hairdresser is finished. He's a slow old guy !

LaoPo

LaoPo I am in cash and agree with your comments. But I am interested in your opinion

of Marc Fabers other recent suggestion to buy up farmland ? His theory being that as the forthcoming

" chaos " starts to unwind over the next few years, an increasing number of people may

want to leave the conurbations to do their " own thing " ?

I think me may have gotten that idea from me.

Sorry lannarebirth - ok that is quite possible

So you obviously see this as a growing trend ? I need a company

set up in Thailand for this but I recently been spending a lot of time

in Isaan here in Thailand and there are so many options here for

agriculture and horticulture

[ray23]

Personally I would not be in a hurry yo buy anyhting in Thailand. Decent farm land has been overpriced for some time now. Never forget this is the land of smoke and mirrors. The only place yuor seeing the effects of this mess are in the Stock Markets. That doesn't mean its not there, it means your not seeing it.

Even today the Baht only move a bit nothing compared to the Pound and Euro.

Leaves me wodering if thailand is a solid as they are saying.

Persoanlly I would wait till I found that farmer that had to save his pickup and buy at the real price.

Yes people have to eat and good farm land has value. But that mean water as well. Issan tends to have to much or not enough, one of the reaons they only get one crop of rice a year. Be very careful

[IAmMarchHare]

Americans, we may still be on the verge of a worldwide depression. There is absolutely no guarantee the emergency bailout will prevent it. Now ask yourselves, what party would you like to be in power during such a painful time, that could last a decade? The party of Franklin Delano Roosevelt who did respond to a crisis by creating great social programs that saved millions of lives or the party of George W Bush, who never met a welfare for the rich program he didn't like? I contend there is blame to go all around, both parties and also most of the American people who played along. The blame is only valuable to help us figure out how we got here, how we can start to fix it, and how we can prevent it from happening again. Now we must deal with the bad reality as it is now. And there is a big election coming up which offers a clear choice. Your move.

That's like asking if we want the new crooks or the old crooks! I'll never understand this binary thinking, and I'll certainly never understand why people want to go for parties (yes, plural) that have proven themselves to be full of liars and scoundrels.

[LaoPo]

If you would have listened a little better to a few here on the board, including myself, you wouldn't have to wonder now if you should stay cash....

Stay cash, grab your gains, and stay cash again. Sit still..and don't move until the hairdresser is finished. He's a slow old guy !

LaoPo

LaoPo I am in cash and agree with your comments. But I am interested in your opinion

of Marc Fabers other recent suggestion to buy up farmland ? His theory being that as the forthcoming

" chaos " starts to unwind over the next few years, an increasing number of people may

want to leave the conurbations to do their " own thing " ?

I think me may have gotten that idea from me.

Me...or Marc Faber ? I know you met/corresponded with him.

But to the question by Midas: Yes, I agree with LannaRebirth and Marc Faber

But, let me add here something:

I can't judge where to buy best, regarding farmland, but I would do a few more things, adding to -just- buying farmland.

I would hire 'know-how' experts as to grow WHAT on that particular farmland in order to try and achieve the maximum output qua products and most-needed/wanted products for the future, rather then to grow the normal every-day products from that particular area...an thus achieve a possible better profit.

AND: I would do that also if I would -just- rent-out said land and thus create something extra to the GDP of the country, no matter how small.

I have no idea about other countries but there is a very famous agricultural University in my own country who are experts also in growing Tropical products and/or helping farmers around the world.

The have quite a track record for all kinds of tropical grown products.

Good Luck.

note:

I would also talk to 4 and 5 star western Hotels/Restaurants' Chefs and ask them; they know what kind of products are hard to get or expensively imported; that's where niece markets are and money is to be made. The farmland shouldn't exclusively regarded as 'farm' land for soil-grown products. It can also be used as fish, shrimp and other products land and the like.

Note2

Just saw Midas' comment on Horticulture. I know for a fact that pre-grown ORCHID plants are very big in fashion and are for sale by the millions in Europe now. Diversifying and stepping away from the old paths is the way to create a very nice extra income.

Like these people did:

http://www.orchidkb.com/kbhistory.htm

If they can....?

LaoPo

Edited September 29, 2008 by LaoPo

[midas]

Personally I would not be in a hurry yo buy anyhting in Thailand. Decent farm land has been overpriced for some time now. Never forget this is the land of smoke and mirrors. The only place yuor seeing the effects of this mess are in the Stock Markets. That doesn't mean its not there, it means your not seeing it.

Even today the Baht only move a bit nothing compared to the Pound and Euro.

Leaves me wodering if thailand is a solid as they are saying.

Persoanlly I would wait till I found that farmer that had to save his pickup and buy at the real price.

Yes people have to eat and good farm land has value. But that mean water as well. Issan tends to have to much or not enough, one of the reaons they only get one crop of rice a year. Be very careful

Thanks for your comments

I did notice this - there are only a few areas are able to get 2 crops per year

The other thing is that like everywhere else around the world - the weather patterns

in some areas are changing drastically. There have some incredible storms

when I was there and flooding in areas that have never had problems before

Edited September 29, 2008 by midas

[midas]

I would also talk to 4 and 5 star western Hotels/Restaurants' Chefs and ask them; they know what kind of products are hard to get or expensively imported; that's where niece markets are and money is to be made. The farmland shouldn't exclusively regarded as 'farm' land for soil-grown products. It can also be used as fish, shrimp and other products land and the like.

Yes that thought had occured to me also on a recent visit to Issan

Just saw Midas' comment on Horticulture. I know for a fact that pre-grown ORCHID plants are very big in fashion and are for sale by the millions in Europe now. Diversifying and stepping away from the old paths is the way to create a very nice extra income.

Yes that is a fascinating thought i had not thought about - thanks LaoPo

Like these people did:

http://www.orchidkb.com/kbhistory.htm

If they can....?

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

I would also talk to 4 and 5 star western Hotels/Restaurants' Chefs and ask them; they know what kind of products are hard to get or expensively imported; that's where niece markets are and money is to be made. The farmland shouldn't exclusively regarded as 'farm' land for soil-grown products. It can also be used as fish, shrimp and other products land and the like.

Yes that thought had occured to me also on a recent visit to Issan

Just saw Midas' comment on Horticulture. I know for a fact that pre-grown ORCHID plants are very big in fashion and are for sale by the millions in Europe now. Diversifying and stepping away from the old paths is the way to create a very nice extra income.

Yes that is a fascinating thought i had not thought about - thanks LaoPo

Like these people did:

http://www.orchidkb.com/kbhistory.htm

If they can....?

LaoPo

You're welcome !

A few weeks ago I bought a small flowering white Orchid in a plastic pot as a present: €uro 15,--(735 Baht) ; and that was for a small Orchid...€ 20, 25 and higher is normal..

LaoPo

Edited September 29, 2008 by LaoPo

[midas]

A few weeks ago I bought a small flowering white Orchid in a plastic pot as a present: €uro 15,--(735 Baht) ; and that was for a small Orchid...€ 20, 25 and higher is normal..

LaoPo

Incredible price ! I am amazed people pay that much !

[LaoPo]

A few weeks ago I bought a small flowering white Orchid in a plastic pot as a present: €uro 15,--(735 Baht) ; and that was for a small Orchid...€ 20, 25 and higher is normal..

LaoPo

Incredible price ! I am amazed people pay that much !

Not in Europe; a normal bundle of flowers, which people buy in thousands of flowershops or on market stalls cost € 10 to 15 or 20 and more Euro And, they're gone in a week, whilst the Orchid flowerplant flowers for months and months

LaoPo

[brahmburgers]

hate to wave my own flag here, but in regard to two topics I broached recently, each poo-pooed by T.Visa sages, and each proved to be true later on, to wit:

1. I mentioned Citibank ATM withdrawal fees (which likely reflect other banks' policies) going up 50%. Several Thaivisa responses inferred it was bogus claim. Even Citibank support personnel didn't know about the change, and for weeks were telling call-ins that their fees were 2%. In truth, their fees did go up to 3% (of amount withdrawn). ....not counting flat fees.

2. My Citibank account, based in northern California, had been sold to another bank, without me getting notice beforehand, or during or after the switch. Now we're hearing about bank accounts getting sold from one bank to another - such transactions happening in hours or minutes.

Incidentally, the problems with banks and the financial system in general (and currency values, for that matter) stems from the following:

Nearly every person and every institution is living beyond their means. Families at the lowest rung - on up to the most (previously) esteemed Wall Street Investment Firms - are leveraged. The financial collapses are heavy karma for manipulated over-valuations that have snowballed for years, ....and the wages of GREED.

In Reno and Las Vegas, there are active 'support groups' called "Gamblers Anonymous" with 12-step programs taken from 'Alcoholics Anonymous' - The excuse often used by habitual gamblers is; "Hey, the casinos have their bright lights flashing and they all promise great prizes - I can't help myself from gambling every day. It's the Casino's fault for luring me in to betting my money away." It's similar to the dynamic for compulsive shoppers.

[PeaceBlondie]

Steppenwolf (John Kay) said in 1968 about the US, "now we are fighting a war over there - no matter who's the winner, we can't pay the cost." I heard him say the same thing in 1985, and he said that nothing had changed. So now, 23 years later....until this financial meltdown, you could almost attribute 95% of the US deficit to wars. What a man sows (plants), that shall he also reap (harvest).

Interesting, how did you come up with 95%. Seems quite high. Regardless, there are countless reasons why not to war.

I guessed. Start around 1915, when there essentially was no public debt, by standards of those days. Look what world war one did - waged on credit, never fully repaid even during the roaring '20's. Of course, the depression seemed expensive at the time, but just wait for the other wars. World war two caused the debt to skyrocket, and the cold war was simply, demonically, financially insane. Psychosis on a national scale. War budgets for decades.

That is what 95% of it is all about. The fact that there are countless reasons not to wage war is meaningless to warmongers, who control the economy. Oh, and the veterans' and soldiers' pensions are unfunded.

[midas]

How can the people of America honestly sit by quietly and watch this Henry Paulson continue

as their Treasury Secretary? The Americans should be jumping up and down to tell him to

take a hike!

Even if this guy isn't a crook - as a member of the Federal Administration at the very least he certainly

has no idea about the importance of appearing impartial whereas he doesn't have a clue

about the concept of " conflict of interest " and that is incredibly naive or deceitful.

As a former senior executive of Goldman Sachs yesterday apparently he found nothing extraordinary about

attending a some kind of briefing when the only other person in the room was the current chairman

of Goldman Sachs. I'm afraid I don't have the exact details because I'm only going by what

Newt Gingrich was saying on the TV today ( someone I highly respect for his views )

and he was livid about this and was rightly questioning if Henry Paulson was fit to keep

doing this job . Come on Americans get rid of these scum bags!

[VegasVic]

hate to wave my own flag here, but in regard to two topics I broached recently, each poo-pooed by T.Visa sages, and each proved to be true later on, to wit:

1. I mentioned Citibank ATM withdrawal fees (which likely reflect other banks' policies) going up 50%. Several Thaivisa responses inferred it was bogus claim. Even Citibank support personnel didn't know about the change, and for weeks were telling call-ins that their fees were 2%. In truth, their fees did go up to 3% (of amount withdrawn). ....not counting flat fees.

2. My Citibank account, based in northern California, had been sold to another bank, without me getting notice beforehand, or during or after the switch. Now we're hearing about bank accounts getting sold from one bank to another - such transactions happening in hours or minutes.

Incidentally, the problems with banks and the financial system in general (and currency values, for that matter) stems from the following:

Nearly every person and every institution is living beyond their means. Families at the lowest rung - on up to the most (previously) esteemed Wall Street Investment Firms - are leveraged. The financial collapses are heavy karma for manipulated over-valuations that have snowballed for years, ....and the wages of GREED.

In Reno and Las Vegas, there are active 'support groups' called "Gamblers Anonymous" with 12-step programs taken from 'Alcoholics Anonymous' - The excuse often used by habitual gamblers is; "Hey, the casinos have their bright lights flashing and they all promise great prizes - I can't help myself from gambling every day. It's the Casino's fault for luring me in to betting my money away." It's similar to the dynamic for compulsive shoppers.

Hence the success of the home shopping network On a more serious note while the Asian markets are likely in for a substantial down day, the European markets may very well face what will become to be known as Black Tuesday. The E.U. central bankers hands will be forced finally and rates will begin to drop as they see that deflation is the real problem over the next year not inflation!!!

[ray23]

Paulson as far as I know appointed by the President, approaved by congress. Not that easy, might see some changes after the election.

Well it didn't pass, yet. So a more watered version ,may come around this week. Have to wait and see.

You know have read some very arrogant responses to this by Wall street and banking types. Especially about the Golden Parachutes. It's like their approach is the Amercan people owe this to them. Far as I'm concerned let them come begging hat in hand. Lets see how reasonable they can be then. We are going to bite the bullet someway or another. I'll be darned if we should give them a kiss on the cheek for what they have done to the world.

If they are so sharp then quit messing around go fix the problem and leave us alone.

[cmsally]

If you would have listened a little better to a few here on the board, including myself, you wouldn't have to wonder now if you should stay cash....

Stay cash, grab your gains, and stay cash again. Sit still..and don't move until the hairdresser is finished. He's a slow old guy !

LaoPo

LaoPo I am in cash and agree with your comments. But I am interested in your opinion

of Marc Fabers other recent suggestion to buy up farmland ? His theory being that as the forthcoming

" chaos " starts to unwind over the next few years, an increasing number of people may

want to leave the conurbations to do their " own thing " ?

In the UK, farmland is exempt from inheritance tax, so this is a big attraction for many people who have benefited from the previously booming housing and stock market. I don't know that the benefits are quite so clear in Thailand but there are very wealthy Thais scouting around looking for farmland but in very big lots. A friend of my husband's recently sold his very large "back to the land" project to a certain very wealthy Thai. But then promptly went to buy another "little project" a bit closer to home.

I think it is the basic sentiment everywhere that they are not making any more land and the growing population needs to eat.

[OlRedEyes]

Business Week 12 June 2006

Mr. Risk Goes to Washinton

They wanted risk, they got it.

[siamamerican]

Steppenwolf (John Kay) said in 1968 about the US, "now we are fighting a war over there - no matter who's the winner, we can't pay the cost." I heard him say the same thing in 1985, and he said that nothing had changed. So now, 23 years later....until this financial meltdown, you could almost attribute 95% of the US deficit to wars. What a man sows (plants), that shall he also reap (harvest).

Interesting, how did you come up with 95%. Seems quite high. Regardless, there are countless reasons why not to war.

I guessed. Start around 1915, when there essentially was no public debt, by standards of those days. Look what world war one did - waged on credit, never fully repaid even during the roaring '20's. Of course, the depression seemed expensive at the time, but just wait for the other wars. World war two caused the debt to skyrocket, and the cold war was simply, demonically, financially insane. Psychosis on a national scale. War budgets for decades.

That is what 95% of it is all about. The fact that there are countless reasons not to wage war is meaningless to warmongers, who control the economy. Oh, and the veterans' and soldiers' pensions are unfunded.

The monetary cost of war is hard to nail down. Every powerful nation of the last 500 years has habitually fought in wars. The human suffering has been enormous and the US of late has been pushing its weight around the globe.

I understand we need to defend our nation, but, come on, do we really need to be in the middle east, S. Korea, Japan... I think the US and the rest of the world would be much better place if we kept our military within our borders. Hey, I could even deal with keeping our military within our continent.

[Groongthep]

Paulson as far as I know appointed by the President, approaved by congress. Not that easy, might see some changes after the election.

It's almost certain there will be a change after the election, even if McCain wins.

Far as I'm concerned let them come begging hat in hand. Lets see how reasonable they can be then. We are going to bite the bullet someway or another. I'll be darned if we should give them a kiss on the cheek for what they have done to the world.

If they are so sharp then quit messing around go fix the problem and leave us alone.

Stop worrying about the CEOs and start worrying about the average Joe who could lose his 401 retirement savings and his job if the economy tanks. Yes, the taxpayers buying up the banks bad debt is a rotten deal, but we must do it and get the credit markets moving again lest we risk a total economic meltdown. The Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped over 700 points today. That's the biggest one day drop in history. Stocks will probably continue to decline sharply tomorrow. If Congress doesn't get it's shit together and pass a rescue bill soon the world economy will be in serious danger.

[lannarebirth]

Paulson as far as I know appointed by the President, approaved by congress. Not that easy, might see some changes after the election.

It's almost certain there will be a change after the election, even if McCain wins.

Far as I'm concerned let them come begging hat in hand. Lets see how reasonable they can be then. We are going to bite the bullet someway or another. I'll be darned if we should give them a kiss on the cheek for what they have done to the world.

If they are so sharp then quit messing around go fix the problem and leave us alone.

Stop worrying about the CEOs and start worrying about the average Joe who could lose his 401 retirement savings and his job if the economy tanks. Yes, the taxpayers buying up the banks bad debt is a rotten deal, but we must do it and get the credit markets moving again lest we risk a total economic meltdown. The Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped over 700 points today. That's the biggest one day drop in history. Stocks will probably continue to decline sharply tomorrow. If Congress doesn't get it's shit together and pass a rescue bill soon the world economy will be in serious danger.

The stock market should mirror economic activity, not the other way around.

[flying]

Stop worrying about the CEOs and start worrying about the average Joe who could lose his 401 retirement savings and his job if the economy tanks. Yes, the taxpayers buying up the banks bad debt is a rotten deal, but we must do it and get the credit markets moving again lest we risk a total economic meltdown. The Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped over 700 points today. That's the biggest one day drop in history. Stocks will probably continue to decline sharply tomorrow. If Congress doesn't get it's shit together and pass a rescue bill soon the world economy will be in serious danger.

I wonder if this will make average joe take a hand in his future from now on?

I mean I am self employed all my life. Now Im getting older & at times wonder if it would have been better to have worked a reg job & had a matching 401k type deal.

Then this hit & I think hmmmmm' maybe it was good I for better or worse look after myself?

Now I am not saying I dont feel for avg joe but how about me & guys like me?

We get very little Benefit from the system & get taxed up & down for being self employed....so I wonder.

[Knightsbridge]

Stop worrying about the CEOs and start worrying about the average Joe who could lose his 401 retirement savings and his job if the economy tanks. Yes, the taxpayers buying up the banks bad debt is a rotten deal, but we must do it and get the credit markets moving again lest we risk a total economic meltdown. The Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped over 700 points today. That's the biggest one day drop in history. Stocks will probably continue to decline sharply tomorrow. If Congress doesn't get it's shit together and pass a rescue bill soon the world economy will be in serious danger.

I wonder if this will make average joe take a hand in his future from now on?

I mean I am self employed all my life. Now Im getting older & at times wonder if it would have been better to have worked a reg job & had a matching 401k type deal.

Then this hit & I think hmmmmm' maybe it was good I for better or worse look after myself?

Now I am not saying I dont feel for avg joe but how about me & guys like me?

We get very little Benefit from the system & get taxed up & down for being self employed....so I wonder.

Ever read Robert Kyosaki of rich Dad, Poor Dad fame? He basically says don't even trust your own government to look after you, but do your utmost best to look after yourself and thus your destiny. Don't ever imagine that government social and financial systems are failproof... and here we are: the biggest financial collapse - a bailout would've burdened the av american and a non-bailout will impverish the av american anyway - they just let the system run such is the greed....

[Pakboong]

How can the people of America honestly sit by quietly and watch this Henry Paulson continue

as their Treasury Secretary? The Americans should be jumping up and down to tell him to

take a hike!

Even if this guy isn't a crook - as a member of the Federal Administration at the very least he certainly

has no idea about the importance of appearing impartial whereas he doesn't have a clue

about the concept of " conflict of interest " and that is incredibly naive or deceitful.

As a former senior executive of Goldman Sachs yesterday apparently he found nothing extraordinary about

attending a some kind of briefing when the only other person in the room was the current chairman

of Goldman Sachs. I'm afraid I don't have the exact details because I'm only going by what

Newt Gingrich was saying on the TV today ( someone I highly respect for his views )

and he was livid about this and was rightly questioning if Henry Paulson was fit to keep

doing this job . Come on Americans get rid of these scum bags!

Paulson is expected back at GS in a few months. He will soon be out of a job with the administration change.

[Lopburi99]

Stop worrying about the CEOs and start worrying about the average Joe who could lose his 401 retirement savings and his job if the economy tanks. Yes, the taxpayers buying up the banks bad debt is a rotten deal, but we must do it and get the credit markets moving again lest we risk a total economic meltdown. The Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped over 700 points today. That's the biggest one day drop in history. Stocks will probably continue to decline sharply tomorrow. If Congress doesn't get it's shit together and pass a rescue bill soon the world economy will be in serious danger.

Pelosi snatched defeat from the jaws of victory with her own idiotic, venomous speech just before the big House vote. She riled up those on the fence, spooked everybody just so she could give yet one more political blast. She couldn't resist the opportunity. She sealed the defeat of her own bill. What a moronic hack! She has no business being Speaker of the House. What good is she?

Edited September 30, 2008 by Lopburi99

[lannarebirth]

Stop worrying about the CEOs and start worrying about the average Joe who could lose his 401 retirement savings and his job if the economy tanks. Yes, the taxpayers buying up the banks bad debt is a rotten deal, but we must do it and get the credit markets moving again lest we risk a total economic meltdown. The Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped over 700 points today. That's the biggest one day drop in history. Stocks will probably continue to decline sharply tomorrow. If Congress doesn't get it's shit together and pass a rescue bill soon the world economy will be in serious danger.

Pelosi snatched defeat from the jaws of victory with her own idiotic, venomous speech before the House vote. She riled up those on the fence, spooked everybody just so she could give one last political blast. She couldn't resist the opportunity. She sealed the defeat of her own bill. What a hack! She has no business being House Majority Leader. What good is she?

I Youtubed that speech. can't imagine what she could have been thinking, unless she was deliberately trying to undermine the Bill. She should have learned a thing or two from Tip O'neill.

[Lopburi99]

Stop worrying about the CEOs and start worrying about the average Joe who could lose his 401 retirement savings and his job if the economy tanks. Yes, the taxpayers buying up the banks bad debt is a rotten deal, but we must do it and get the credit markets moving again lest we risk a total economic meltdown. The Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped over 700 points today. That's the biggest one day drop in history. Stocks will probably continue to decline sharply tomorrow. If Congress doesn't get it's shit together and pass a rescue bill soon the world economy will be in serious danger.

Pelosi snatched defeat from the jaws of victory with her own idiotic, venomous speech before the House vote. She riled up those on the fence, spooked everybody just so she could give one last political blast. She couldn't resist the opportunity. She sealed the defeat of her own bill. What a hack! She has no business being House Majority Leader. What good is she?

I Youtubed that speech. can't imagine what she could have been thinking, unless she was deliberately trying to undermine the Bill. She should have learned a thing or two from Tip O'neill.

I know, I was flabbergasted. Absolutely unbelievable.

(BTW, I corrected my previous post which "demoted" Pelosi to Majority Leader. Actually she is Speaker of the House to be accurate (sorry). I had the lovely Harry Reid, Senate Majority Leader, on my mind at the time - he is another worthless, inept demagog/idealog)

[OriginalPoster]

Stop worrying about the CEOs and start worrying about the average Joe who could lose his 401 retirement savings and his job if the economy tanks. Yes, the taxpayers buying up the banks bad debt is a rotten deal, but we must do it and get the credit markets moving again lest we risk a total economic meltdown. The Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped over 700 points today. That's the biggest one day drop in history. Stocks will probably continue to decline sharply tomorrow. If Congress doesn't get it's shit together and pass a rescue bill soon the world economy will be in serious danger.

Pelosi snatched defeat from the jaws of victory with her own idiotic, venomous speech before the House vote. She riled up those on the fence, spooked everybody just so she could give one last political blast. She couldn't resist the opportunity. She sealed the defeat of her own bill. What a hack! She has no business being House Majority Leader. What good is she?

I Youtubed that speech. can't imagine what she could have been thinking, unless she was deliberately trying to undermine the Bill. She should have learned a thing or two from Tip O'neill.

I know, I was flabbergasted. Absolutely unbelievable.

(BTW, I corrected my previous post which "demoted" Pelosi to Majority Leader. Actually she is Speaker of the House to be accurate (sorry). I had the lovely Harry Reid, Senate Majority Leader, on my mind at the time - he is another worthless, inept demagog/idealog)

She defintitely was trying to kill the bill, it was the equivalent of a boxer taking a dive. It wan't politically feasible for her to go on record against the bailout but this way she managed to kill it and still has plausible deniability.

[cclub75]

I Youtubed that speech. can't imagine what she could have been thinking, unless she was deliberately trying to undermine the Bill. She should have learned a thing or two from Tip O'neill.

Could you post the URL to this video ? Thanks.

[lannarebirth]