U.s. Banking Crisis: Capitalism "gone Wild"?

[fabianfred]

many US citizens like to collect shares or play on the stock market...which is just like gambling with other peoples money..

and the US govt spends too much on its Defence policies...

and they put the world off the gold standard......

and they kill off anyone with an idea to use energy other than fossil fuels

what goes around comes around ...the law of karma has bought the check to be paid

[Naam]

0 = The number of times the Dow Jones Transportation Index has dropped 4% or more on a day when crude oil also drops 4% or more. Gold stocks . Something ain't right.

as i told you by PM gold stocks give a distorted picture due to sometimes extremely long forward hedging of production or parts of it and sometimes none. to the best of my knowledge even public quoted mines are not required to disclose details of their hedging strategy.

[siamamerican]

many US citizens like to collect shares or play on the stock market...which is just like gambling with other peoples money..

and the US govt spends too much on its Defence policies...

and they put the world off the gold standard......

and they kill off anyone with an idea to use energy other than fossil fuels

what goes around comes around ...the law of karma has bought the check to be paid

Hmm, isn't this a global crisis? It seems that many other countries gambled on our debt. As for the rest of your post, I'm sure it makes sense to you and you might be right. I've had an odd desire to shoot my neighbor that is putting up solar panels.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Edited October 3, 2008 by BEENTHEREDONETHAT

[Pakboong]

We are very close to a point were one or more generations will not care what their credit score actually is.

A good friend when referring to his elderly mother tells me she has alzheimers, the only thing she remembers is the depression.

[lannarebirth]

0 = The number of times the Dow Jones Transportation Index has dropped 4% or more on a day when crude oil also drops 4% or more. Gold stocks . Something ain't right.

as i told you by PM gold stocks give a distorted picture due to sometimes extremely long forward hedging of production or parts of it and sometimes none. to the best of my knowledge even public quoted mines are not required to disclose details of their hedging strategy.

Thanks Dr. I think that's part of it, for sure. Also I think a lot of funds are needing to dump non core (speculative)holdings to raise cash. I think there's something else too going on, but I'm not sure what it is. This market is sending a message (not just that it's overpriced given risk), but I haven't discerned it yet.

[midas]

many US citizens like to collect shares or play on the stock market...which is just like gambling with other peoples money..

and the US govt spends too much on its Defence policies...

and they put the world off the gold standard......

and they kill off anyone with an idea to use energy other than fossil fuels

what goes around comes around ...the law of karma has bought the check to be paid

Hmm, isn't this a global crisis? It seems that many other countries gambled on our debt. As for the rest of your post, I'm sure it makes sense to you and you might be right. I've had an odd desire to shoot my neighbor that is putting up solar panels.

oh you do talk crap siamamerican ! Of course it is NEVER the fault of the Almighty United States of America in your eyes

wake up poor boy ! even many of your fellow countrymen are admitting now these problems started in the

good old US of A - you better catch up !

[LaoPo]

Still today you can get a 30 year fixed Fannie Mae mortgage with a 65% DEBT TO INCOME. Most borrowers with a 65% DTI aren't paying substantial taxes, but living cost easily eat-up the remaining 35% of income.

If home values don't level off soon, which is hard to imagine since real estate is still overvalued, this crisis is far from over.

It's a -bloody- scandal that these kind of mortgages are still offered and sold to the weaker in society !

It also shows the American financial and mortgage industry didn't learn a single thing of the disaster called the sub-slime crisis and especially from a company like Fannie Mae (possible Freddie Mac also) which was saved with taxpayers money.

What a bloody scandal !

In my own country, where we do NOT have a subprime crisis, mortgage suppliers are extremely cautious giving out new mortgages and in fact the mortgage industry has come to a halt, even for high qualified buyers. And that is in a country with almost ZERO problems with mortgages.

The most absurd case was the denial of a mortgage to a financial very stable new client with a very high income....he was not trusted....BECAUSE he never ever had a loan before....and they couldn't find a trackrecord......

And in your country they go on supplying mortgages to the financial weak....?..unbelievably stupid and very dangerous as well for the future.

Aaahhh, well, Washington DC will rescue...again It shows the US didn't learn a single thing and GREED is still there, everywhere.

Finally it will bring the country down the drain...watch my words.

LaoPo

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

The 700 billion bailout bill is now 810 billion. They have added a few tax breaks that have to be paid for. The one I really like is a tax break for makers of childrens wooden arrows. Are these people for real? And by the way the, increase in FDIC on your saving in the bank is raised from $100,000 to $250,000 for one year then it drops back to $100,000

from http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/53357.html

[lannarebirth]

Have the survivalist and militia groups started up again yet?

[Naam]

The 700 billion bailout bill is now 810 billion. They have added a few tax breaks that have to be paid for. The one I really like is a tax break for makers of childrens wooden arrows. Are these people for real? And by the way the, increase in FDIC on your saving in the bank is raised from $100,000 to $250,000 for one year then it drops back to $100,000

BT, the constitutional right of every American is that he/she can bear arms. wooden arrows (and most probably matching bows) are OK. you wouldn't want your grandchildren run around with 45s or 38s, would you?

[Naam]

Have the survivalist and militia groups started up again yet?

a good point! i am sure that in some parts there is something cooking.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

The 700 billion bailout bill is now 810 billion. They have added a few tax breaks that have to be paid for. The one I really like is a tax break for makers of childrens wooden arrows. Are these people for real? And by the way the, increase in FDIC on your saving in the bank is raised from $100,000 to $250,000 for one year then it drops back to $100,000

BT, the constitutional right of every American is that he/she can bear arms. wooden arrows (and most probably matching bows) are OK. you wouldn't want your grandchildren run around with 45s or 38s, would you?

Darn I thought that (bear arms) meant wear short sleeves. They have upgraded from 45's & 38's and now want AR-15 and AK-47 with the large capacity magazine of course.

[IAmMarchHare]

...

In my own country, where we do NOT have a subprime crisis, mortgage suppliers are extremely cautious giving out new mortgages and in fact the mortgage industry has come to a halt, even for high qualified buyers. And that is in a country with almost ZERO problems with mortgages.

The most absurd case was the denial of a mortgage to a financial very stable new client with a very high income....he was not trusted....BECAUSE he never ever had a loan before....and they couldn't find a trackrecord......

...

I think you have identified exactly why the crisis doesn't exist in your country. The banks in the US used to be exactly the same way. A "trackrecord", aka good credit rating, used to be a requirement before the government started pushing for "affordable" mortgages for everyone. That cracked open the dam, and then banks and financial institutions found ways to make quick bucks off these schemes.

In fact, there once was a joke on some comedy show where someone came into the bank to get a loan. The bank wouldn't give them a loan "because you have no money". The person replied, "If I had money, I wouldn't need a loan!" Well, the past few years, you not only don't need any money, but you don't even need a job to get a mortgage. From ditch to the other.

Finally it will bring the country down the drain...watch my words.

LaoPo

It could bring the country down. It probably won't. The real trick will be not so much to survive as to regain real health.

Democracy and capitalism are great things, but they really depend upon morals and scruples. At the end of the day, that is what seems to be in short supply amongst America's executives and lawmakers.

[IAmMarchHare]

Also, for those who still doubt that the roots of this problem started before this current US administration, have a look at http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...xprod=permalink

[OriginalPoster]

Still today you can get a 30 year fixed Fannie Mae mortgage with a 65% DEBT TO INCOME. Most borrowers with a 65% DTI aren't paying substantial taxes, but living cost easily eat-up the remaining 35% of income.

If home values don't level off soon, which is hard to imagine since real estate is still overvalued, this crisis is far from over.

It's a -bloody- scandal that these kind of mortgages are still offered and sold to the weaker in society !

It also shows the American financial and mortgage industry didn't learn a single thing of the disaster called the sub-slime crisis and especially from a company like Fannie Mae (possible Freddie Mac also) which was saved with taxpayers money.

What a bloody scandal !

In my own country, where we do NOT have a subprime crisis, mortgage suppliers are extremely cautious giving out new mortgages and in fact the mortgage industry has come to a halt, even for high qualified buyers. And that is in a country with almost ZERO problems with mortgages.

The most absurd case was the denial of a mortgage to a financial very stable new client with a very high income....he was not trusted....BECAUSE he never ever had a loan before....and they couldn't find a trackrecord......

And in your country they go on supplying mortgages to the financial weak....?..unbelievably stupid and very dangerous as well for the future.

Aaahhh, well, Washington DC will rescue...again It shows the US didn't learn a single thing and GREED is still there, everywhere.

Finally it will bring the country down the drain...watch my words.

LaoPo

So is the banking industry in Europe on firm ground then?

[Naam]

once in a while i like to copy and paste:

NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. banks' borrowed a record $367.8 billion per day from the Federal Reserve in the latest week, as financial institutions relied heavily on the lender of last resort amid the most severe credit crisis since the Great Depression.

http://feeds.reuters.com/~r/reuters/busine...E4918O020081002

[LaoPo]

So is the banking industry in Europe on firm ground then?

I don't think so, no.

My post was merely meant to express my worries about the financial/mortgage system in the US as such.

I am not able to judge about every single country in the EU since it is difficult to have a clear overview because of the different languages and rules in the various countries.

It seems that countries in the Northern part of mainland Europe are doing better than the UK and Southern, Mediterranean EU countries; I'm talking mortgage industry here.

Not the overall economy, although the economy in a country like Spain is heavily influenced by the housing, and thus, mortgage and building industry; the normal economy is suffering real bad and it shows in the extreme drop in car sales, for instance, of -41% last month.

The worst is yet to come, both in the USA and Europe, including Russia....and rest of the world.

Better buy extra safety belts...

LaoPo

[Jingthing]

Don't forget that the leading, and epidemic cause of both FORECLOSURES and BANKRUPTCIES in the United States is because of people getting caught with ruinous MEDICAL bills. This is for people who are both insured and uninsured (about 50 million Americans). The US does not have the government health care programs of most civilized Western countries. Cause and effect again. Consumer spending won't get the US out of this one, the previous spending during bad times was based on inflated perceived wealth in housing and retirement plans, now gone. Yes, fasten your seat belts. Shopping is 70 percent of the US economy and its previous power rippled throughout the world. Yes, we are reaping what we have sowed and there is no instant cure, not the rescue package and not the inevitable election of President Obama, the disease is just too advanced for a painless cure. I truly believe we are witnessing the end of the American dominated era and as an American the saddest part to me is how we did this to ourselves, how America and the world deals with this is a big question mark.

Edited October 3, 2008 by Jingthing

[OriginalPoster]

Don't forget that the leading, and epidemic cause of both FORECLOSURES and BANKRUPTCIES in the United States is because of people getting caught with ruinous MEDICAL bills. This is for people who are both insured and uninsured (about 50 million Americans). The US does not have the government health care programs of most civilized Western countries. Cause and effect again. Consumer spending won't get the US out of this one, the previous spending during bad times was based on inflated perceived wealth in housing and retirement plans, now gone. Yes, fasten your seat belts. Shopping is 70 percent of the US economy and its previous power rippled throughout the world. Yes, we are reaping what we have sowed and there is no instant cure, not the rescue package and not the inevitable election of President Obama, the disease is just too advanced for a painless cure. I truly believe we are witnessing the end of the American dominated era and as an American the saddest part to me is how we did this to ourselves, how America and the world deals with this is a big question mark.

Where are you getting that statistic that "the leading, and epidemic cause of both FORECLOSURES and BANKRUPTCIES in the United States is because of people getting caught with ruinous MEDICAL bills"?

[Naam]

Don't forget that the leading, and epidemic cause of both FORECLOSURES and BANKRUPTCIES in the United States is because of people getting caught with ruinous MEDICAL bills. This is for people who are both insured and uninsured (about 50 million Americans).

ruinous MEDICAL bills are partly the results of fancy insurance premiums the U.S. medics and hospitals have to pay to protect them from the most ridiculous malpractice suits. every medical bill contains a hefty percentage for the two mandatory lawyers (one who sues the medic and the other one who defends him)

Edited October 3, 2008 by Naam

[IAmMarchHare]

once in a while i like to copy and paste:

NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. banks' borrowed a record $367.8 billion per day from the Federal Reserve in the latest week, as financial institutions relied heavily on the lender of last resort amid the most severe credit crisis since the Great Depression.

http://feeds.reuters.com/~r/reuters/busine...E4918O020081002

Maybe it's just me, but I cannot open this link. Thanks.

[Naam]

The worst is yet to come, both in the USA and Europe, including Russia....and rest of the world.

Better buy extra safety belts...

LaoPo

tomorrow morning i will discuss with my gardener which part around the house we will use to grow potatoes, cauliflower, tomatoes and other vegetable. i'm also thinking of breeding rabbits. i've heard they multiply quite fast and i know they are tasty.

joke aside. in a way our good friend Bingobongo wasn't too much off the target. if he had presented his reasons in a different way more people would have listened to him.

[Naam]

once in a while i like to copy and paste:

NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. banks' borrowed a record $367.8 billion per day from the Federal Reserve in the latest week, as financial institutions relied heavily on the lender of last resort amid the most severe credit crisis since the Great Depression.

http://feeds.reuters.com/~r/reuters/busine...E4918O020081002

Maybe it's just me, but I cannot open this link. Thanks.

sorry, obviously posting direct links to my Reuters RSS feed don't work. you have to find the article at reuters.com

[Jingthing]

Don't forget that the leading, and epidemic cause of both FORECLOSURES and BANKRUPTCIES in the United States is because of people getting caught with ruinous MEDICAL bills. This is for people who are both insured and uninsured (about 50 million Americans). The US does not have the government health care programs of most civilized Western countries. Cause and effect again. Consumer spending won't get the US out of this one, the previous spending during bad times was based on inflated perceived wealth in housing and retirement plans, now gone. Yes, fasten your seat belts. Shopping is 70 percent of the US economy and its previous power rippled throughout the world. Yes, we are reaping what we have sowed and there is no instant cure, not the rescue package and not the inevitable election of President Obama, the disease is just too advanced for a painless cure. I truly believe we are witnessing the end of the American dominated era and as an American the saddest part to me is how we did this to ourselves, how America and the world deals with this is a big question mark.

Where are you getting that statistic that "the leading, and epidemic cause of both FORECLOSURES and BANKRUPTCIES in the United States is because of people getting caught with ruinous MEDICAL bills"?

How about Harvard?

Or if you consider the top American academy (Obama's law school) too elite and left wing for you, how about right wing US News and World Report?

http://health.usnews.com/usnews/health/bri...h/hb050202c.htm

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005...ptcy_study.html

Surprisingly, most of those bankrupted by illness had health insurance. More than three-quarters were insured at the start of the bankrupting illness. However, 38 percent had lost coverage at least temporarily by the time they filed for bankruptcy.

Most of the medical bankruptcy filers were middle class; 56 percent owned a home and the same number had attended college. In many cases, illness forced breadwinners to take time off from work -- losing income and job-based health insurance precisely when families needed it most.

The paradox is that the costliest health system in the world performs so poorly. We waste one-third of every health care dollar on insurance bureaucracy and profits while two million people go bankrupt annually and we leave 45 million uninsured" said Dr. Quentin Young, national coordinator of Physicians for a National Health Program.

"With national health insurance ('Medicare for All'), we could provide comprehensive, lifelong coverage to all Americans for the same amount we are spending now and end the cruelty of ruining families financially when they get sick."

Edited October 3, 2008 by Jingthing

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

I'm having problems with all the links opening. Naams, Jingthings and one i tried to post. Is it just me or are others having the same problem. Perhaps one of the mods can check this out.

[lannarebirth]

Buffett: My fix for the economy

Investment guru proposes getting private investors involved in the mortgage bailout and warns that the $700 billion price tag may be too low.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/02/news/newsm...sion=2008100215

[pkrv]

I'm having problems with all the links opening. Naams, Jingthings and one i tried to post. Is it just me or are others having the same problem. Perhaps one of the mods can check this out.

Hi - You need to copy the original link from internet explorer etc. Click just to the right of the text of the link address it should highlight. Then press down and hold the control (ctrl) key. then press the c key.

When you are in your message press down and hold the control (ctrl) key. then press the v key

The link should appear and will work - do not do this to copy across posts it only works with the original web site.

Good surfing PKRV - BTW nothing to do with understanding how Novell worked (just knew the developer)

[Jingthing]

Bankruptcies and medical bills: delete leading spaces

http: //health.usnews.com/usnews/health/briefs/publichealth/hb050202c.htm

http: //www. consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/bankruptcy_study.html

[pkrv]

you mean

http://health.usnews.com/usnews/health/bri...h/hb050202c.htm

control v

and etc