Are Our Lives Linked In Previous Reincarnations With Those Prominent In Our Lives?

[rockyysdt]

Due to the khama we inherit, are certain key people in our lives, (or their inherited khama), constant companions in our future and past reincarnations?

Naturally our ego, body, memories, and feelings expire upon death but it would be the inherited khama which would be our (our khama's) reincarnated companion.

In other words could we say that we've lived with key people in our lives, in previous lifetimes, and are drawn to them again and again?

This would presumably continue until we learn what was meant to be imparted by that persons influence (khama).

Would those that we interact with serve two functions, which are (a) to impart good or bad experiences due to our inherited khama, and influence us to change our negative khama accumulation?

Edited September 25, 2008 by rockyysdt

[Brucenkhamen]

Due to the khama we inherit, are certain key people in our lives, (or their inherited khama), constant companions in our future and past reincarnations?

Naturally our ego, body, memories, and feelings expire upon death but it would be the inherited khama which would be our (our khama's) reincarnated companion.

In other words could we say that we've lived with key people in our lives, in previous lifetimes, and are drawn to them again and again?

This would presumably continue until we learn what was meant to be imparted by that persons influence (khama).

Would those that we interact with serve two functions, which are (a) to impart good or bad experiences due to our inherited khama, and influence us to change our negative khama accumulation?

Putting aside differuing views on rebirth, do you have any evidence to support the affirmative? If not assume the negative and carry on with your practice.

[camerata]

Due to the khama we inherit, are certain key people in our lives, (or their inherited khama), constant companions in our future and past reincarnations?

This seems to be a popular belief all over the Buddhist world. For Theravadins, the only real support for this seems to come from dubious Pali commentaries about the former lives of the Buddha and his closest disciples. The only relevant reference I've come across in the Pali Canon is the Samajivina Sutta, in which the Buddha teaches a married couple how they can be together in the next life. Since they would have to be "in tune [with each other] in conviction, in tune in virtue, in tune in generosity, and in tune in discernment," it seems that simply having a close relationship with someone is not enough.

Apparently, in Chinese Buddhism there are four "kammic bonds" from the past that all of us have with the people in our lives:

1) enemies

2) people who were grateful to us (loved ones)

3) creditors

4) debtors

So your enemies and creditors can actually pursue you across multiple lives until they get satisfaction. I suppose that serves as a powerful warning to be a good person in this lifetime.

[rockyysdt]

Due to the khama we inherit, are certain key people in our lives, (or their inherited khama), constant companions in our future and past reincarnations?

This seems to be a popular belief all over the Buddhist world. For Theravadins, the only real support for this seems to come from dubious Pali commentaries about the former lives of the Buddha and his closest disciples. The only relevant reference I've come across in the Pali Canon is the Samajivina Sutta, in which the Buddha teaches a married couple how they can be together in the next life. Since they would have to be "in tune [with each other] in conviction, in tune in virtue, in tune in generosity, and in tune in discernment," it seems that simply having a close relationship with someone is not enough.

Apparently, in Chinese Buddhism there are four "kammic bonds" from the past that all of us have with the people in our lives:

1) enemies

2) people who were grateful to us (loved ones)

3) creditors

4) debtors

So your enemies and creditors can actually pursue you across multiple lives until they get satisfaction. I suppose that serves as a powerful warning to be a good person in this lifetime.

Discrepancies can be a concern.

Are there many dubious or conflicting writings in Buddhas works?

Which ones do we embrace with open minds?

Which ones do we reject and why?

[rockyysdt]

Putting aside differuing views on rebirth, do you have any evidence to support the affirmative? If not assume the negative and carry on with your practice.

Considering Pali and other references to such things, shouldn't we walk with open minds to this subject rather than going for the negative which could be as polar as the affirmative?

[camerata]

Are there many dubious or conflicting writings in Buddhas works?

The problem is, a lot of popular Buddhist belief derives from commentaries that appeared long after the Buddha died. They may not have got it wrong, but they can't be said to be the authentic word of Buddha either. The same also applies to some parts of the Pali Canon that probably appeared after the Buddha's time, such as the Jataka Tales. Such texts may contain valuable lessons, though.

The way I look at it is if a text doesn't seem in tune with the Buddha's core teachings, I don't pay much attention to it (but I don't "reject" it either). In the case of "kammic bonds," the one story in the Samajivina Sutta doesn't seem to support the idea. More to the point, you have to wonder if the Buddha would really teach people how to maintain a major attachment over multiple lifetimes in multiple realms.

To me, the main message of the suttas is that a radical way exists to end the loneliness of separate individual existence. But the idea of traversing oceans of time with a single soulmate just seems to be the conventional human solution to the problem - the unfailingly loyal companion. I don't see any essential difference between that and being with loved ones in everlasting heaven, although I assume rebirth would be less boring.

[clausewitz]

Are there many dubious or conflicting writings in Buddhas works?

The problem is, a lot of popular Buddhist belief derives from commentaries that appeared long after the Buddha died. They may not have got it wrong, but they can't be said to be the authentic word of Buddha either. The same also applies to some parts of the Pali Canon that probably appeared after the Buddha's time, such as the Jataka Tales. Such texts may contain valuable lessons, though.

So the Theravada sangha has kept the Tipitika and Commentaries for over two millenia but your insight is profound enough that you can tell they are fake? thanks for that, if they have another Buddhist council maybe you can be the chair and we can be rid of dubious suttas, the 550 jataka, all the Commentaries and anything else?

[Brucenkhamen]

Putting aside differuing views on rebirth, do you have any evidence to support the affirmative? If not assume the negative and carry on with your practice.

Considering Pali and other references to such things, shouldn't we walk with open minds to this subject rather than going for the negative which could be as polar as the affirmative?

I don't have any evidence to the affirmative that there is life in other galaxies, therefore I don't invent stories and beliefs about what that life might be, I assume the negative and go on with my life rather than searching for something that I may not ever be able to prove.

Same response to your question.

[rockyysdt]

I don't have any evidence to the affirmative that there is life in other galaxies, therefore I don't invent stories and beliefs about what that life might be, I assume the negative and go on with my life rather than searching for something that I may not ever be able to prove.

Same response to your question.

There isn't concrete evidence of life outside our galaxy, but the probability is so high, many would be suprised if there weren't.

The only thing stopping us from proving this are the astronomical distances involved.

[Brucenkhamen]

I don't have any evidence to the affirmative that there is life in other galaxies, therefore I don't invent stories and beliefs about what that life might be, I assume the negative and go on with my life rather than searching for something that I may not ever be able to prove.

Same response to your question.

There isn't concrete evidence of life outside our galaxy, but the probability is so high, many would be suprised if there weren't.

The only thing stopping us from proving this are the astronomical distances involved.

True, in that respect not the best example, still the point is in the mean time I don't invent stories and beliefs on the subject, it wouldn't add anything to my practice just entertain me and divert me from practice, as would speculation on possible answers to your question.

[camerata]

So the Theravada sangha has kept the Tipitika and Commentaries for over two millenia but your insight is profound enough that you can tell they are fake? thanks for that, if they have another Buddhist council maybe you can be the chair and we can be rid of dubious suttas, the 550 jataka, all the Commentaries and anything else?

It isn't my own idea that the commentaries and parts of the Canon were written centuries after the death of the Buddha, it's what the Pali/Sanskrit scholars tell us. See, for example, A. K. Warder's Indian Buddhism. So, I personally I'm not prepared to accept everything their authors tell us on faith alone.

[bankei]

It is well known that the commentaries were written after the Buddha's death. They are commentaries after all. It is also clear that some of the works in the Tipitaka also date from after the Buddha's death. The Kattavathu, eg, in the Abhimdhamma claims to be from the third council. parts of the Mahaparinibbana Sutta also date from after the Buddha's death because they mention the funeral. The first council is recorded in the Vinaya etc

Many also regard the Abhidhamma as being a later addition. In the Vinaya account of the first council the Abhidhamma is not mentioned as being recited at the first council.

it is also well documented that the commentaries do contain errors and/or misinterpretations. If interested see the works of Prof K.R. Norman. There have been some cases where the original meaning of a word had been forgotten or distorted and this has affected subsequent interpretation by the tradition.

[Apothecary]

Due to the khama we inherit, are certain key people in our lives, (or their inherited khama), constant companions in our future and past reincarnations?

Yes and no. At one level the past and future do not exist. However on a energy body level it appears that causes can come about that bring us back into connection with people whom we have had connections with at another time.

My own expereince of this is finding 3 past life connections. One I was indebted to them, another became my student/helper and another became a lover.

Usually the feelings are strong with such people and may be hard to place some of the emotion. For me i had memories coming up which i could not explain. places and feelings which didn't fit the present.

Naturally our ego, body, memories, and feelings expire upon death but it would be the inherited khama which would be our (our khama's) reincarnated companion.

Some memories and feelings live on. This is my belief. The astral/energy body carries some residual memories.

In other words could we say that we've lived with key people in our lives, in previous lifetimes, and are drawn to them again and again?

Yes. Until we complete the cycle with them, and/or heal/resolve whatever inbalance/indebtedness there may be.

This would presumably continue until we learn what was meant to be imparted by that persons influence (khama).

If it's love then we may choose the relationship within ourself against that of an external partner. It's a complicated affair. Arguably the relatinoship and love for one self is going to bring liberation. However partners along the way are aides and mirrors unto ourself. Also sexual tantra can be a wonderful way to grow/heal if the partner is energetically compatible. Often this is the case as that be what drew each other together.

[sleepyjohn]

How can there possibly be reincarnation or rebirth in any commonly ascribed sense?

Especially when there's no real "we" to be alive in the first place.....

How did Wei Wu Wei put it?

There is experiencing but no experiencer.

That's it!

cheers (he who feels like he's) John

[sleepyjohn]

I thought I would get some vigorous responses to my last post.

I guess it was the kiss of non-death.......

John

[camerata]

How can there possibly be reincarnation or rebirth in any commonly ascribed sense?

Especially when there's no real "we" to be alive in the first place.....

I depends what you mean by "commonly ascribed sense." We covered the Theravada concept of rebirth in a recent topic, and it doesn't involve anything continuously "alive," continuously aware, or any kind of enduring self/entity.

Phrases such as the "the path is, but no traveler is seen" (Visuddhi Magga) emphasize that the idea of an enduring self is an illusion, but rebirth doesn't involve rebirth of a self.

Sorry I couldn't be more vigorous...

[rockyysdt]

How can there possibly be reincarnation or rebirth in any commonly ascribed sense?

Especially when there's no real "we" to be alive in the first place.....

How did Wei Wu Wei put it?There is experiencing but no experiencer.

That's it!cheers (he who feels like he's) John

Hi Sleepy.

Where we're at regarding khamma and the cycle of rebirth is that our body, mind, thoughts, feelings, & ego are not enduring, and do not become reborn, expiring upon death.

The Buddhist rebirth is not of the person (non enduring) but of the khamma.

However what we (non enduring) do is have an effect on the status of this khamma which we inherited.

This khamma is reborn and is passed on for millennia, from person to person, becoming fashioned by each owners deeds.

It alters depending on each owners deeds and decisions made in their life time.

When we inherit khamma, it will dictate the extent of suffering we may be exposed to in our lives.

If any owner of this khamma becomes enlightened during their lifetime, then this vehicle (khamma) will escape rebirth and thus eliminate suffering for any new owners.

To live is to suffer as life involves suffering.

So the answer to your question is that rebirth can occur, because you are not reborn, it's the khamma which you fashion by your actions which is reborn.

Edited October 4, 2008 by rockyysdt