Marriage In Thailand Under U.s. Law?

[newbegin4]

Hi, my fiancee and I want to have our ceremony in Thailand but formally sign the marriage documents under U.S. law, not Thai law. Is it possible to get married at a U.S. Embassy or consulate (it is sovereign U.S. soil I understand). If not, how about aboard a U.S. flagged ship (perhaps just out far enough to be in international waters)? Any other creative options, short of dealing with a K-1 visa and the expense of flying to some U.S. territory?

P.S. not sure where else to post this, so I put here.

Edited September 26, 2008 by newbegin4

[Lite Beer]

Why can't you get the marriage registered in Thailand. You would still be legally married anywhere in the world including USA.

[ubonjoe]

Why all trouble and expense.

A marriage in Thailand is recognzed by the US goverment.

A marriage under US law would be started by applyling for a licence from a city and the ceremoney is performed by someone authorized to conduct the ceramony.

I don't think it can be arranged here.

[Lopburi99]

...A marriage in Thailand is recognzed by the US goverment.

Are you sure? Is this relatively new? I was told a few years ago by someone who should know these things a marriage in Thailand was NOT recognized by the US government.

If what you say is true, does that mean my Thai wife and I would not need to remarry in the US later for her to eventually become eligible to receive my Social Security benefits upon my death?

[Lite Beer]

...A marriage in Thailand is recognzed by the US goverment.

Are you sure? Is this relatively new? I was told a few years ago by someone who should know these things a marriage in Thailand was NOT recognized by the US government.

If what you say is true, does that mean my Thai wife and I would not need to remarry in the US later for her to eventually become eligible to receive my Social Security benefits upon my death?

You are legally married, and are recognised as such every where in the world. Providing you have registered the marriage at a Thai Amphur.

Edited September 26, 2008 by Lite Beer

[ThaiLawOnline]

Yes, USA does recognize marriages made at the Amphur.

Have a look at the link below from the American embassy, and the procedure.

http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/service/marriage.html

[keg]

As long as your marriage is registered and you have the proper marriage certificate the US recognizes your thai marriage. The US embassy excepted my thai marriage certificate this year to obtain a report of birth abroad, social security number, and US passport for our son and a US tourist visa for my wife. The document was also excepted by the US Department of Defense to enroll both of them in their system as my dependents and receive an ID card and subsequent medical coverage. No problems.

Keg

Edited September 26, 2008 by keg

[keg]

Forgot to add this in the last post but recognizing the marriage and receiving social security benefits are two different things. Just being married does not entitle my Thai wife to social security benefits. I believe the law was changed sometime in the late 90's that foreign born spouses must reside in the US a total of 5 years (does not have to be continuous) in order to be entitled to social security benefits. Our son is different situation though, as he is a dual citizen (Thai/US) and is entitled to social security benefits now without ever residing in the US.

Keg

[keg]

Did some digging and actually found the info regarding the 5 year rule for foreign spouses eligibility for social securiity, and the law was changed in 1986. Children add different scenarios as well (whether US citizen or not) but here is the rule concerning the spouse:

Effective January 1, 1985, all alien dependents or survivors of workers living outside the U.S. are required to satisfy 5-year U.S. residency to be paid benefits.

The U.S. residency requirement does not apply to the following beneficiaries:

1. Beneficiary eligible to benefits prior to January 1, 1985.

2. Citizens of treaty countries, e.g. Germany , Greece , Ireland , Israel , Italy , Japan , and Netherlands (survivors only).

3. Beneficiaries filing on the record of a worker who died while in the U.S. military service, or as a result of a service-connected disease or injury.

4. Residents or citizens of countries with which the United States has a Totalization Agreement, e.g. Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Chile, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, South Korea, Sweden, Switzerland, and the United Kingdom.

5. Citizens or nationals of the United States .

Any beneficiary who does not fall to any of the above must meet the residency requirement. Residency implies a factual place of stay in the U.S. with the intention to establish strong social and economic attachment through employment, payment of taxes, membership in civic or religious organizations, etc. Residency could either be continuous or cumulative periods which sums up to 5 years. The residency should be satisfied during which relationship existed between the claimant and the worker.

A child who cannot meet the residency on his own can meet “deemed residency”, if both of his parents resided in the U.S. for at least 5 years. The same applies to an adopted child, if the adoption was decreed in a U.S. court and the child was living with or receiving one-half support for the year immediately preceding the month in which the adoption is decreed.

If this 5-year residency requirement or any of the exceptions is not met, Social Security monthly benefits will be suspended.

Keg

Edited September 26, 2008 by keg

[newbegin4]

Thanks for the replies, but she says "I will not get married under Thai law". I didn't ask why and I'm not going to.

So that being the case, does anybody know if it is possible to get married at the U.S. embassy?

Has anybody gotten married elsewhere outside of the United States, i.e. a military base or a U.S. documented vessel in international waters?

How would I make this work?

Thank you all!

[jumnien]

Danger! Danger! Find out why she won't get married under Thai law? Does she have something to hide?

[Carib]

She will not get married under Thai law?? Now this is something I most certainly would look into.

Why do it the difficult way instead of the easy way at the amphur? It is US recognised, so I don't see a reason not to do it there, unless she cannot marry under Thai law, because she is maybe already registered there as being married.

But you are not going to ask...

[ubonjoe]

Danger! Danger! Find out why she won't get married under Thai law? Does she have something to hide?

Danger puts it mildly.

IE: She could be married already. Doesn't want it to be under Thai law because it will show her as married here. etc.etc.

Try to get your hands on her ID card or a copy and have somebody that reads Thai see if it shows her as being married.

[soic]

I agree with the previous posters... I was married here, the US embassy processed my license (signed and stamped) and they recognized the marriage. I also applied and got her a tax payer ID number and have applied for a permanent resident visa. No problems...

If she's not willing to be married under Thai law... you need to be a bit leary. There's something wrong there. If you do marry her in the states and it turns out not to be legal in Thailand, more than likely, if the US government finds out about the reason later, it could affect her status in the states. If there's a problem here, it could and most probably would, become a major problem to you later. It could be anything from her being already legally married, to a complete sex change that she's hiding.... You have bigger worries now than just social security benefits; you need to figure that out first.

[Mario2008]

Better tell your girlfriend that you will need proof from the district office that she is currently not married, as without that document you cannot get married under US law. Put it as a legal requirement. If you were to marry under Thai law you would have to proof the same.

[ubonjoe]

Thanks for the replies, but she says "I will not get married under Thai law". I didn't ask why and I'm not going to.

I hope you have read all the replys after you did this post. You are going to have to find out why!

So that being the case, does anybody know if it is possible to get married at the U.S. embassy?

Did you follow the link to the US consulate and read it? It mentions 2 US citizens getting married, If there was another option I think they would of mentioned it.

Has anybody gotten married elsewhere outside of the United States, i.e. a military base or a U.S. documented vessel in international waters?

Yes I was in the military and I had to get married under local laws. I know a couple in the US that got married on a cruise but they had to get a marriage license first. You can have a wedding ceremony in any form but it doesn't count unless it is registered with the proper authorities.

How would I make this work?

You can't unless she agrees and you get married under Thai law or go through the K-1 procedure.

Thank you all!

I hope you have come back and read all the replies including this one.

Edited September 29, 2008 by ubonjoe

[thaihome]

Marriage is a state regulated process, there is no such thing as a federal marriage, that is why the Embassy cannot perform a marriage or issue a marriage license. In addition there is no federal marriage master database, which is why you cannot register a Thai marriage with the Embassy. The Embassy is an arm of the federal government and cannot perform any function left to the individual states to regulate.

TH

[Lopburi99]

... she says "I will not get married under Thai law". I didn't ask why and I'm not going to.

For Heaven's Sakes, why not? Are you crazy?

You could be stepping into a snake pit. Don't you want to do your best to protect yourself from a potential disaster? If she has nothing serious to hide, then you can proceed with your marriage plans more confident of this decision. At this point, I would suggest you can have no such confidence.

Don't be stupid, Man, this is Thailand and there are endless horror stories!

Many Thai women are experts at deception. Given their considerable allure and their adeptness at attracting a Westerner it is not unusual for one of us to fall hook-line-and-sinker, as I did in my first marriage. She eventually took me for everything, and now I have my Social Security only. She damned near destroyed me.

I don't mean to offend you, but DON'T BE A MORON! CHECK HER OUT!

(Good luck....I do wish you the best!)

Edited September 29, 2008 by Lopburi99

[Lopburi99]

Did some digging and actually found the info regarding the 5 year rule for foreign spouses eligibility for social securiity, and the law was changed in 1986. Children add different scenarios as well (whether US citizen or not) but here is the rule concerning the spouse:

Effective January 1, 1985, all alien dependents or survivors of workers living outside the U.S. are required to satisfy 5-year U.S. residency to be paid benefits.

The U.S. residency requirement does not apply to the following beneficiaries:

1. Beneficiary eligible to benefits prior to January 1, 1985.

2. Citizens of treaty countries, e.g. Germany , Greece , Ireland , Israel , Italy , Japan , and Netherlands (survivors only).

3. Beneficiaries filing on the record of a worker who died while in the U.S. military service, or as a result of a service-connected disease or injury.

4. Residents or citizens of countries with which the United States has a Totalization Agreement, e.g. Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Chile, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, South Korea, Sweden, Switzerland, and the United Kingdom.

5. Citizens or nationals of the United States .

Any beneficiary who does not fall to any of the above must meet the residency requirement. Residency implies a factual place of stay in the U.S. with the intention to establish strong social and economic attachment through employment, payment of taxes, membership in civic or religious organizations, etc. Residency could either be continuous or cumulative periods which sums up to 5 years. The residency should be satisfied during which relationship existed between the claimant and the worker.

A child who cannot meet the residency on his own can meet "deemed residency", if both of his parents resided in the U.S. for at least 5 years. The same applies to an adopted child, if the adoption was decreed in a U.S. court and the child was living with or receiving one-half support for the year immediately preceding the month in which the adoption is decreed.

If this 5-year residency requirement or any of the exceptions is not met, Social Security monthly benefits will be suspended.

Keg

Thank you very much Keg for your time and all the excellent information!