Stash The Cash

[uptou]

Heres one list of offshore accounts with "the best rates": http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/saving-and-ba...&in_page_id=

Isnt the reason for such good interest rates just because the banks are desperate for your money,money which is tight elsewhere?

[chiang mai]

Heres one list of offshore accounts with "the best rates": http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/saving-and-ba...&in_page_id=

Isnt the reason for such good interest rates just because the banks are desperate for your money,money which is tight elsewhere?

Correct. But also sometimes it's a part of a drive to increase the customer base, gimmicky but effective.

[uptou]

Can you generally access any of your money with these offshore accounts or is it a case of forget about it for one or two years?

Also if you wanted to get informed about whether your money would definitely be ok at AIB in the event of the bank going t!ts up,would the irish embassy be the people to contact?

cheers all.

[dsfbrit]

I am just travelling back from a 3 weeks stay in the UK. I have all my savings with HBOS, onshore and offshore. I wandered around several banks to set up some other accounts. I kept bumping into the same people doing the same thing. They were lucky and able to set up onshore accounts of 50,000 pounds with different banks, so they are protected. As a non-resident I could just set up offshore accounts. The protection on these is not as clear cut as onshore accounts.

My fixed term savings accounts can be closed down losing 6 days interest for each month I close down early. I could close down the majority of the accounts for a relatively small amount compared to what I could lose if one of these major banks went bust(unlikely). Do I want to do this??? Who knows. It would just mean money offshore with HSBC instead of HBOS and no real guarantee of anything if the World as I know it collapses.

HSBC did offer me an onshore account (Premier) with a deposit of 50000 pounds. I thought about it, but the interest rate was so poor (4 per centish with the Premier account 'bonus'') I gave it a miss. I only went in there to get them to witness my passport and address details of my current account I hold with them so I could open an HSBC offshore account. I came out of there without the signature I needed and the feeling I had just had a hard sell I did not expect.

I think I will just hope the Lloyds TSB takeover will be successful - Gordon Brown has put all his weight behind it - so it should go ahead then

Anyway we shall see.

Edited October 4, 2008 by dsfbrit

[LaoPo]

Taking some previous posts into consideration, this is an interesting read for those who are planning to stash some cash in off shore funds...:

Markets call time on Iceland

* Robert Peston

* 4 Oct 08, 12:35 PM

The best way of seeing Iceland is as a country that turned itself into a giant hedge fund.

For years it paid higher interest rates than in many parts of the world, so its financial institutions borrowed a ton of hot money from abroad, which they then re-cycled into investments all over northern Europe, including the UK.

The Icelandic banking boom was an economic phenomenon created by what's known as the carry trade - whereby colossal sums of money were borrowed in places like Japan, where interest rates were effectively zero, for lending to institutions in high-interest-paying economies, such as Iceland.

This, for years, seemed to be a no-lose arbitrage on differential interest rates in a globalised economy.

But it was just another manifestation of the pumping up of the credit bubble, which is now deflating and hurting us all.

Here are the lethal statistics about Iceland: the value of its economic output, its GDP, is about $20bn; but its big banks have borrowed some $120bn in foreign currencies.

Now that's what I call leverage - and remember that's just the overseas liabilities of its commercial banks.

If this were a business, and if it had no other borrowings (which of course Iceland does have), this would be a debt-to-ebitda ratio of 6.

Or to put it another way, Iceland simply doesn't have the domestic earnings to service this kind of debt.

Which is why if the Icelandic Government were to formally underwrite all these liabilities - which it might just have to do, given that other banks and financial institutions no longer want to touch Iceland with the longest barge-pole ever constructed - well its national-debt-to-GDP ratio would be at a level that make the UK in the 1970s look like a model of prudence.

And if Icelandic taxpayers actually had to service all that debt, well there wouldn't be a lot left over for even the basics of life.

It's a proper old mess.

Of course I'm being a tad unfair, in that the banks that have foolishly borrowed all this wonga have invested in tanker-loads of offshore assets.

Much of the British high street, a load of property and the Hammers have been financed or are owned by Icelandic banks and financiers.

And those that have borrowed from Icelandic banks have frequently borrowed too much. Which means they will have to start looking for alternative sources of working capital and debt at a time when over-leveraged outfits aren't flavour of the month with our banks. Ouch.

So Iceland's problems have a direct knock-on for the British economy - and goodness alone knows how exposed our banks are to Icelandic ones through the interbank market or derivatives market. One British bank with a reasonable name and a long history, Singer & Friedlander, is owned by the Icelandic bank, Kaupthing.

That'll be making the City watchdog, the Financial Services Authority, a tad uncomfortable, because Kaupthing - which is no minnow, with gross assets of $73bn - has the worst case of financial BO I've encountered in some time.

On Friday, had anyone wished to take out insurance in the credit default swaps market to guarantee repayment of debt issued by Kaupthing, he or she would have had to pay a premium of £625,000 to guarantee the return of £1m.

Which is simply to say that Kaupthing couldn't issue new debt, even if it wanted to.

And even the Icelandic government is classed by the markets as a lousy credit risk. On Friday, the cost of insuring $10m of Icelandic debt was $1.5m up front and $500,000 a year - a cripplingly large premium.

So what'll happen to poor indebted Iceland?

Well, although its central bank has fairly substantial reserves - enough according to the central bank governor to cover imports for eight to nine months - it's difficult to see how it can re-float without international help.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/ro...on_iceland.html

..watch your dosh....don't let the 7%+ fool you...

LaoPo

[chiang mai]

Can you generally access any of your money with these offshore accounts or is it a case of forget about it for one or two years?

Also if you wanted to get informed about whether your money would definitely be ok at AIB in the event of the bank going t!ts up,would the irish embassy be the people to contact?

cheers all.

The Irish deposit protection scheme was just changed by an act of the Irish Parliament so I think you can take it as gospel that it exists. Whether or not the scheme could actually pay out in the event that ALL Irish went banks went bust is another question. But that's probably not a question worth usefully contemplating as discussed previously.

[chiang mai]

I am just travelling back from a 3 weeks stay in the UK. I have all my savings with HBOS, onshore and offshore. I wandered around several banks to set up some other accounts. I kept bumping into the same people doing the same thing. They were lucky and able to set up onshore accounts of 50,000 pounds with different banks, so they are protected. As a non-resident I could just set up offshore accounts. The protection on these is not as clear cut as onshore accounts.

My fixed term savings accounts can be closed down losing 6 days interest for each month I close down early. I could close down the majority of the accounts for a relatively small amount compared to what I could lose if one of these major banks went bust(unlikely). Do I want to do this??? Who knows. It would just mean money offshore with HSBC instead of HBOS and no real guarantee of anything if the World as I know it collapses.

HSBC did offer me an onshore account (Premier) with a deposit of 50000 pounds. I thought about it, but the interest rate was so poor (4 per centish with the Premier account 'bonus'') I gave it a miss. I only went in there to get them to witness my passport and address details of my current account I hold with them so I could open an HSBC offshore account. I came out of there without the signature I needed and the feeling I had just had a hard sell I did not expect.

I think I will just hope the Lloyds TSB takeover will be successful - Gordon Brown has put all his weight behind it - so it should go ahead then

Anyway we shall see.

There are two things to be concerned about here for both of us, since I also have some funds with HBOS offshore. The first is whether the Lloyds deal will go through (I think it will since the major institutional investors have already give it the nod) and the second is whether the newly formed Lloyds/HBOS can survive, given the state of the combined mortgage book! In the case of the latter I come back to earlier points to suggest that it will survive - the UK government is actively involved to ensure deposits are not lost so the bigger the bank, the more effort they are likely to put in. Secondly, If Lloyds/HBOS were to fail the UK would be a totally different place because of the large number of people effected. Governments don't like to see banks fail because it would almost certainly involve the death of their party for the next fifty years or more! Can you imagine in ten years time, vote Labour they would say - ah yes, that's the party that lost the savings of a few million citizens, no chance the population would say.

Having said those things, next time you have a chance you perhaps want to think about splitting your savings between a few banks.

[LaoPo]

IRELAND...and The Irish deposit protection scheme.

European Commissioner for Competition Mrs. Neelie Kroes, Brussels, just mentioned live on Dutch television that several high members of her staff just returned from meetings in Dublin, Ireland.

The Irish deposit protection scheme to guarantee that deposits were totally safe for two years if an Irish bank collapsed, for certain clients, will not be allowed in the present form and which the Irish Parliament voted for.

Within 24 hours amendments will be published HOW the Irish government and banks will (have to) adapt to the EU rules.

The basics objections to the scheme were of discriminatory origin.

http://ec.europa.eu/commission_barroso/kroes/cabinet_en.html

PRIOR to Mrs. Kroes' interview, this article showed up with BBC:

Page last updated at 16:51 GMT, Saturday, 4 October 2008 17:51 UK

No business rush to Irish banks

There has been no stampede on the part of UK businesses to transfer savings to Irish banks, a BBC poll suggests.

In a survey carried out with the consultants Unicom, 91.6% of the 312 small businesses quizzed said that they would not consider moving deposits.

The Irish government has agreed to introduce legislation to ensure savers' deposits were totally safe for two years if an Irish bank collapsed.

The BBC poll came after the Financial Services Authority changed guarantees.

The FSA raised the limit to the amount of deposits that are guaranteed should a UK bank go bust, from £35,000 to £50,000 per banking group.

The new limit will come into effect on Tuesday, 7 October.

'No significant spike'

Prior to the FSA announcement on Friday the UK payments association Apacs said there had been no significant spike in transfers between accounts in UK and Irish banks.

Apacs also said that if there had been significant flows of money they would not be detected for a number of days yet until payments had moved through the system.

UK banks and building societies had been concerned about the move by the Irish government.

Meanwhile in a second, smaller BBC poll of 94 companies, 34 small firms said that their business had not been affected by the credit crunch.

Another 46 said it had and 14 said it was too soon to say.

According to Iain MacAuley, spokesman for Unicom which advises small companies mostly on telecoms issues, the poll findings suggest "small businesses do not truly believe they'll lose their money from bank collapses".

He added: "Realistically, the government would bail out any banks that look on the brink, and the big and reputable banks will not be allowed to fail."

--BBC

LaoPo

[lannarebirth]

Germany prepares banking guarantee plan

By Bertrand Benoit in Berlin

Published: October 5 2008 16:45 | Last updated: October 5 2008 16:45

Germany is preparing to offer a blanket government guarantee covering all German cash and savings bank accounts held by individuals in a move to pre-empt panic withdrawals by customers in the coming days.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d895ef54-92ef-11...00779fd18c.html

Edited October 5, 2008 by lannarebirth

[LaoPo]

Germany prepares banking guarantee plan

By Bertrand Benoit in Berlin

Published: October 5 2008 16:45 | Last updated: October 5 2008 16:45

Germany is preparing to offer a blanket government guarantee covering all German cash and savings bank accounts held by individuals in a move to pre-empt panic withdrawals by customers in the coming days.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d895ef54-92ef-11...00779fd18c.html

Yep..read that too; I'm curious what Brussels has to say; Yesterday Chancellor Mrs. Angela Merkel complained about the Irish steps....so....(Ms Merkel had previously been strongly critical of the Irish and Greek governments' decisions to take independent action to protect all savings deposits. ).

"...Germany will guarantee all private savings accounts..."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7653317.stm link with video

It's expected in all other news reports that most countries in the EU will (have to) follow.

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

Germany guarantees private deposits

By Steve Goldstein, MarketWatch

Last update: 2:56 p.m. EDT Oct. 5, 2008

LONDON (MarketWatch) -- Germany became the latest and by far the biggest European country on Sunday to explicitly guarantee the deposits in banks held by their citizens.

Chancellor Angela Merkel said in an announcement Sunday that she could not allow problems around Hypo Real Estate, a commercial property lender, to affect the broader system.

Ireland and Greece took similar moves last week, though Germany's move is only aimed at individual and not company deposits.

Merkel attended a meeting on Saturday held by French President Nicolas Sarkozy in which Germany, France, Italy and the U.K. said they would try to coordinate their responses to the current turmoil in global financial markets but did not set up formal bailout fund.

Continues here:

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/germ...3-3B9FB167F9F0}

LaoPo

[Naam]

lip service from Lovely Angela. german private saving are an estimated 3,000 billion Euros. but Angela's promise might work if it restores confidence in the german banking system. people have started withdrawing cash last wednesday and thursday (friday was a public holiday). cash withdrawals because of fear a bank might go belly-up is something unheard of in Germany since decades.

[chiang mai]

Fifty baht and a Mars bar says that the UK government follows suit (or very similar) before the month is out, any takers?

[Naam]

Fifty baht and a Mars bar says that the UK government follows suit (or very similar) before the month is out, any takers?

no takers CM!

Radical plans for the Treasury to take shareholdings in the UK's biggest high-street banks are being drawn up.

By Robert Winnett, Deputy Political Editor

Last Updated: 10:10PM BST 05 Oct 2008

Alistair Darling, the Chancellor, could give the banks billions of pounds in return for shares in an emergency bailout plan to be enacted if the financial crisis worsens, The Daily Telegraph has learnt.

The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for the scheme, which would put taxpayers' money at risk.

Ministers believe it may soon become necessary if banks do not begin lending money again to consumers and to each other.

Mr Darling hinted at the plan when he said he was "looking at some pretty big steps" to ease the lending crisis and was prepared to step in to help other ailing banks in the wake of the nationalisation of Bradford & Bingley and Northern Rock.

Details of the plan came as pressure intensified on the Government to offer a 100 per cent guarantee on all savings after Germany took the surprise step of announcing a blanket guarantee on private deposits in its banks.

The financial crisis will dominate the return of Parliament, with the banking bail out and savings guarantee likely to be debated ahead of the unveiling of a new banking bill later this week.

Gordon Brown's new National Economic Council will also meet for the first time, with the Prime Minister having put his administration on a "war footing" to tackle the economic crisis.

The Treasury plan to take shares in major high street banks will be discussed by the council. It would be the most radical step yet, putting billions of pounds of taxpayers' money at risk if the stock-market value of banks failed to recover.

However, David Cameron, the Conservative leader, appeared to give his backing to such a scheme.

He warned that an "ad-hoc approach" to the financial crisis was no longer appropriate and that a co-ordinated rescue package was now necessary.

The bail out plan would allow the Government to provide banks with billions of pounds without attaching conditions on how it is spent. By receiving shares - or an option to buy shares - in exchange for funding, taxpayers stand to profit when the banks recover.

A similar scheme was introduced in Sweden in the early 1990s when the country was facing a similar banking crisis. Swedish taxpayers eventually profited from the bailout. Warren Buffett, one of the world's biggest investors, used a similar mechanism to provide £2.8 billion to Goldman Sachs recently, which is being closely studied by the Treasury.

In further developments over the weekend:

• Business leaders, economists and politicians called on the Bank of England to announce a sharp cut in interest rates this week. A reduction in the base rate of up to 0.5 percentage points is now predicted.

• A growing number of banks changed their economic forecasts and are now predicting a full-blown recession in this country. Citigroup, the world's biggest bank, expects British unemployment to rise by one million.

• Mr Darling indicated he will rewrite the Government's economic rules to allow borrowing to increase beyond the previously-permitted maximum limit. The new rules are expected to be outlined in a major speech on Wednesday.

The bailout plan is one of a number of contingency options to have been worked out by Treasury officials over the past few weeks. It follows the emergency nationalisations of Northern Rock and Bradford & Bingley which have led to calls for a more widespread solution.

Treasury aides are cautious about discussing specifics amid fears that stock-market investors will demand the plans are implemented immediately.

However, Mr Darling told the BBC One's Andrew Marr Show: "Be in no doubt we will do whatever it takes to stabilise the banking system.

"We are looking at some pretty big steps which we would not take in ordinary times but we are ready to take them."

Both Mr Cameron and George Osborne, the shadow Chancellor, also used television interviews to float their support for such a scheme.

Mr Cameron said that the Government may soon have to "do some really quite big things'' to stabilise the economic situation and said his party stood ready to support them.

In an article for the Financial Times, the Conservative leader said "more drastic capital measures may be required. It is possible to imagine the circumstances in which government injections of capital, with proper safeguards and strict conditions, may be the best way to safeguard the long term interests of the taxpayer."

Vince Cable, the shadow Liberal Democrat chancellor, also gave his support to such a scheme. "There is a case for a more systematic approach," he said. "A variant of the Swedish model could be applied here."

Mr Darling is expected to make an economic statement to Parliament updating MPs on the actions taken by Government over the summer to tackle the financial crisis. This will include details of last month's emergency bailout of Bradford & Bingley.

On Tuesday the Government will unveil its banking reform legislation which will give the Bank of England and Financial Services Authority (FSA) greater powers to intervene in failing banks.

[LaoPo]

And after The Netherlands nationalized the Dutch part of FORTIS Bank/Insurer including largest Dutch Bank, ABN AMRO, -for a mere sum of € 16.8 Billion-...

....it's now Belgium's turn who sold 75% of the Belgian FORTIS Part to French Bank BNP Paribas for a sum of € 8.25 Billion in stock. The Belgian government will keep 25% for the time being.

The Bankers in Europe have been quite busy these days...

LaoPo

Edited October 5, 2008 by LaoPo

[LaoPo]

"...Germany will guarantee all private savings accounts..."[/size]

It's expected in all other news reports that most countries in the EU will (have to) follow.

LaoPo

At your service:

Governments back savers as banking gloom spreads

Mon Oct 6, 2008 6:56am EDT

By Jeremy Gaunt and Matthias Sobolewski

LONDON/BERLIN (Reuters) - More European governments followed Germany's lead on Monday offering blanket deposit guarantees to savers in a frantic effort to calm fears among investors over the worst financial crisis in 80 years.

However, the moves failed to comfort financial markets as investors from Tokyo to London slashed risk from portfolios and positioned for a further tightening of credit and bank lending and the rising risk of a serious global economic recession.

Despite concerted efforts to stem the crisis, investors were clearly seeking more concrete steps from authorities, perhaps in the form of coordinated action from next weekend's meeting of the Group of Seven industrial nations.

In a sign that the crisis is biting deeper in Asia, South Korea said it wanted to hold talks with China and Japan.

The Bank of Japan offered to lend 1 trillion yen ($9.68 billion) against pooled collateral in an auction to inject liquidity into the market.

In Europe, Sweden became the latest country to act, with the government saying it would expand bank deposit guarantees and the central bank raising the amount of loans offered to banks.

It followed Germany's pledge on Sunday to guarantee private deposit accounts, a move which spurred similar action by Austria and Denmark. Ireland issued the first such guarantee last week, prompting criticism of a fragmented European Union response

Continues here:

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idU...usmorningdigest

LaoPo

[pkrv]

Now I like the Irish solution

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7643603.stm

Rather than just give more money to the rich they actually guarentee all bank account deposits, full stop, no limits.

Will not help with other issues (pensions except UK SIPPS) but will help day to day.

I still like the Irish solution and now German solution - next the UK? Or we will see people exercising more 'risk managment' and simply exiting the UK retail banking market. Do you actually know how complex it is to guarentee your £50k in the UK? Well if is a Tuesday and the 13th of the month, and you are standing on one foot with a chicken in your mouth. You MAY and I stress MAY recieve a fraction of the guarentee.

Edited October 6, 2008 by pkrv

[LaoPo]

Now I like the Irish solution

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7643603.stm

Rather than just give more money to the rich they actually guarentee all bank account deposits, full stop, no limits.

Will not help with other issues (pensions except UK SIPPS) but will help day to day.

I still like the Irish solution and now German solution - next the UK? Or we will see people exercising more 'risk managment' and simply exiting the UK retail banking market. Do you actually know how complex it is to guarentee your £50k in the UK? Well if is a Tuesday and the 13th of the month, and you are standing on one foot with a chicken in your mouth. You MAY and I stress MAY recieve a fraction of the guarentee.

Didn't you guys read this ?:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Stash-Cash-t...85#entry2256285

It remains to be seen WHAT Brussels can do against the various Governments' decisions to guarantee ALL DEPOSITS from ALL clients or part of deposits (as in many other countries).

It's very nice, of course, for the clients, BUT..if the whole financial system would collapse, which is now (as I write) not unthinkable, those guarantees are worth as much as there will be cash in the Bank & Governments' Pots in Europe and the USA as well, and...that's not very much since most Banks & countries are NEGATIVE with their cash assets.

The cash (and by internet) withdrawals are GIGANTIC at the moment, and either deposited with AAA Banks or stashed under the mattress.....

And than what ?

The problem with many houseowners/households is that those owners have a mortgage -most of them (not me) with a certain bank; if this bank collapses and is not saved by it's Government, the houseowner has a big problem if he (also) has a savings account with that same back; a savings account from his wife and/or children will be wiped away at the same time...

In fact ASIA is better off then the West because most Asian countries didn't burn their fingers, buying the lousy subslime products from the US or a minor part of them.

LaoPo

[meom]

The problem with many houseowners/households is that those owners have a mortgage -most of them (not me) with a certain bank; if this bank collapses and is not saved by it's Government, the houseowner has a big problem if he (also) has a savings account with that same back; a savings account from his wife and/or children will be wiped away at the same time...

LaoPo

If a bank collapses in which you have a mortgage loan doesn't that mean you get the house for free since there's no more bank to pay off the mortgage to?

[pkrv]

The problem with many houseowners/households is that those owners have a mortgage -most of them (not me) with a certain bank; if this bank collapses and is not saved by it's Government, the houseowner has a big problem if he (also) has a savings account with that same back; a savings account from his wife and/or children will be wiped away at the same time...

LaoPo

If a bank collapses in which you have a mortgage loan doesn't that mean you get the house for free since there's no more bank to pay off the mortgage to?

No. I am afraid the bank owns your property. If it goes under it's debts are on passed. If anything, your life has just become not worth living.

[LaoPo]

The problem with many houseowners/households is that those owners have a mortgage -most of them (not me) with a certain bank; if this bank collapses and is not saved by it's Government, the houseowner has a big problem if he (also) has a savings account with that same back; a savings account from his wife and/or children will be wiped away at the same time...

LaoPo

If a bank collapses in which you have a mortgage loan doesn't that mean you get the house for free since there's no more bank to pay off the mortgage to?

No...that would be a dream for many.

The 'worthless' assets of any given bank (collapsed) are not so worthless as it would seem.

There are always still assets and those assets are, amongst others, your and your neighbours' mortgages. Those assets will either become the possession of the creditors or governments, whoever came first.

So, you still have to pay the normal installments to the same account you always did. If you're trying to avoid so, or not do it at all, and take the money and go on holiday...there will be the day you'll regret that and lose the house.

BUT.....if he given bank collapses and you have savings with the SAME bank as your mortgage....you'll lose that money -in many cases- although the European sentiment with Governments is NOW to guarantee ALL savings from their citizens with ALL banks; but NOT IN ALL COUNTRIES...yet.

They (Gvrnment) do this to try and calm the panic amongst people who have savings and thus they try to prevent the, already very large, withdrawals from those people.

If they will be successful in all countries and banks remains to be seen. I hope so !

edit:

I'm afraid I wasn't clear. The -eventual- savings one has with the SAME bank as the mortgage will be withdrawn from the outstanding amount in mortgage. So....one doesn't lose the savings....it will be deducted from the mortgage.

Still, very sour, but not as bad as it seems. Sorry for my first explanation.

LaoPo

Edited October 6, 2008 by LaoPo

[meom]

No. I am afraid the bank owns your property. If it goes under it's debts are on passed. If anything, your life has just become not worth living.

Unless I have a credit-default swap on some of the banks debt right?

[pkrv]

Now I like the Irish solution

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7643603.stm

Rather than just give more money to the rich they actually guarentee all bank account deposits, full stop, no limits.

Will not help with other issues (pensions except UK SIPPS) but will help day to day.

I still like the Irish solution and now German solution - next the UK? Or we will see people exercising more 'risk managment' and simply exiting the UK retail banking market. Do you actually know how complex it is to guarentee your £50k in the UK? Well if is a Tuesday and the 13th of the month, and you are standing on one foot with a chicken in your mouth. You MAY and I stress MAY recieve a fraction of the guarentee.

Didn't you guys read this ?:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Stash-Cash-t...85#entry2256285

It remains to be seen WHAT Brussels can do against the various Governments' decisions to guarantee ALL DEPOSITS from ALL clients or part of deposits (as in many other countries).

It's very nice, of course, for the clients, BUT..if the whole financial system would collapse, which is now (as I write) not unthinkable, those guarantees are worth as much as there will be cash in the Bank & Governments' Pots in Europe and the USA as well, and...that's not very much since most Banks & countries are NEGATIVE with their cash assets.

The cash (and by internet) withdrawals are GIGANTIC at the moment, and either deposited with AAA Banks or stashed under the mattress.....

And than what ?

The problem with many houseowners/households is that those owners have a mortgage -most of them (not me) with a certain bank; if this bank collapses and is not saved by it's Government, the houseowner has a big problem if he (also) has a savings account with that same back; a savings account from his wife and/or children will be wiped away at the same time...

In fact ASIA is better off then the West because most Asian countries didn't burn their fingers, buying the lousy subslime products from the US or a minor part of them.

LaoPo

I think the resistance by the UK to follow suit, says it all. Oh they probably just added a side note that if it is any other day than a Tuesday you get nothing - They cannot or will not do it. The English expression is its is 'PUT YOUR BALLS ON THE LINE GUYS' though I think they are sliding down razor blades and using their balls for breaks at the moment, all in an effort for personal self fulfilment (sick people what are their wages let alone their expenses!)

[pkrv]

No. I am afraid the bank owns your property. If it goes under it's debts are on passed. If anything, your life has just become not worth living.

Unless I have a credit-default swap on some of the banks debt right?

That is a separate market instrument and has its own destiny.

[LaoPo]

I think the resistance by the UK to follow suit, says it all. Oh they probably just added a side note that if it is any other day than a Tuesday you get nothing - They cannot or will not do it. The English expression is its is 'PUT YOUR BALLS ON THE LINE GUYS' though I think they are sliding down razor blades and using their balls for breaks at the moment, all in an effort for personal self fulfilment (sick people what are their wages let alone their expenses!)

I agree; the Governments' guarantees are nothing more than trying to calm people.....

If the card houses fall...there will not be enough cash to satisfy everybody; instead you will receive a very nice -stamped- paper from the Governments, saying ""WE OWE YOU xx amount + interest and will pay you as soon as possible", with the worthless currency we introduced xx years ago.

HOW you have to pay for your rice and bread is not OUR business

LaoPo

[Naam]

I still like the Irish solution and now German solution - next the UK? Or we will see people exercising more 'risk managment' and simply exiting the UK retail banking market. Do you actually know how complex it is to guarentee your £50k in the UK? Well if is a Tuesday and the 13th of the month, and you are standing on one foot with a chicken in your mouth. You MAY and I stress MAY recieve a fraction of the guarentee.

the bavarian solution is similar but a tiny additional restriction has been added. it says "guarantee only for those who are 90 years and older, apply personally and are accompanied by both parents".

[LaoPo]

I still like the Irish solution and now German solution - next the UK? Or we will see people exercising more 'risk managment' and simply exiting the UK retail banking market. Do you actually know how complex it is to guarentee your £50k in the UK? Well if is a Tuesday and the 13th of the month, and you are standing on one foot with a chicken in your mouth. You MAY and I stress MAY recieve a fraction of the guarentee.

the bavarian solution is similar but a tiny additional restriction has been added. it says "guarantee only for those who are 90 years and older, apply personally and are accompanied by both parents".

........so much for a guarantee

LaoPo

[dsfbrit]

I am just travelling back from a 3 weeks stay in the UK. I have all my savings with HBOS, onshore and offshore. I wandered around several banks to set up some other accounts. I kept bumping into the same people doing the same thing. They were lucky and able to set up onshore accounts of 50,000 pounds with different banks, so they are protected. As a non-resident I could just set up offshore accounts. The protection on these is not as clear cut as onshore accounts.

My fixed term savings accounts can be closed down losing 6 days interest for each month I close down early. I could close down the majority of the accounts for a relatively small amount compared to what I could lose if one of these major banks went bust(unlikely). Do I want to do this??? Who knows. It would just mean money offshore with HSBC instead of HBOS and no real guarantee of anything if the World as I know it collapses.

HSBC did offer me an onshore account (Premier) with a deposit of 50000 pounds. I thought about it, but the interest rate was so poor (4 per centish with the Premier account 'bonus'') I gave it a miss. I only went in there to get them to witness my passport and address details of my current account I hold with them so I could open an HSBC offshore account. I came out of there without the signature I needed and the feeling I had just had a hard sell I did not expect.

I think I will just hope the Lloyds TSB takeover will be successful - Gordon Brown has put all his weight behind it - so it should go ahead then

Anyway we shall see.

There are two things to be concerned about here for both of us, since I also have some funds with HBOS offshore. The first is whether the Lloyds deal will go through (I think it will since the major institutional investors have already give it the nod) and the second is whether the newly formed Lloyds/HBOS can survive, given the state of the combined mortgage book! In the case of the latter I come back to earlier points to suggest that it will survive - the UK government is actively involved to ensure deposits are not lost so the bigger the bank, the more effort they are likely to put in. Secondly, If Lloyds/HBOS were to fail the UK would be a totally different place because of the large number of people effected. Governments don't like to see banks fail because it would almost certainly involve the death of their party for the next fifty years or more! Can you imagine in ten years time, vote Labour they would say - ah yes, that's the party that lost the savings of a few million citizens, no chance the population would say.

Having said those things, next time you have a chance you perhaps want to think about splitting your savings between a few banks.

I agree in general with what you say. The trouble is though, I am an Expat and therefore cannot legally open an onshore UK bank account. Also, even if I could, I would have to close fixed term bank accounts with financial penalties.

I am also not sure that the UK electorate could give a stuff about an Expat losing his money in an offshore account.

The UK government may well explicitly guarantee ALL UK deposits over the next few days, but that will not explicitly include offshore accounts.

The current guarantees relating to offshore accounts are poor to useless IMHO. Perhaps HSBC is better than most, they seem to say they cover offshore deposits, whereas HBOS just have a letter of understanding to cover liabilites - whatever that means!!!

I guess if the UK government guarantees all savings for onshore UK accounts, then despite the penalty, I will close down my offshore accounts and move them all to my current onshore HBOS savings accounts. At least then they are 'safe'.

What will you do??? These are odd times - I never thought my savings with HBOS, onshore or offshore would cause me any loss of sleep!!

Edited October 6, 2008 by dsfbrit

[dsfbrit]

The problem with many houseowners/households is that those owners have a mortgage -most of them (not me) with a certain bank; if this bank collapses and is not saved by it's Government, the houseowner has a big problem if he (also) has a savings account with that same back; a savings account from his wife and/or children will be wiped away at the same time...

LaoPo

If a bank collapses in which you have a mortgage loan doesn't that mean you get the house for free since there's no more bank to pay off the mortgage to?

In fact, according to a news show I saw in the UK, IF you have savings in the same bank, then you don't get those savings back, they actually just deduct the amount from your outstanding mortgage debt. They were therefore advising people move their saving to a bank other than the bank they had their mortgage with. Odd times we live in for sure! You would not lose out, you just would not have cash in hand.

Edited October 6, 2008 by dsfbrit

[chiang mai]

I am just travelling back from a 3 weeks stay in the UK. I have all my savings with HBOS, onshore and offshore. I wandered around several banks to set up some other accounts. I kept bumping into the same people doing the same thing. They were lucky and able to set up onshore accounts of 50,000 pounds with different banks, so they are protected. As a non-resident I could just set up offshore accounts. The protection on these is not as clear cut as onshore accounts.

My fixed term savings accounts can be closed down losing 6 days interest for each month I close down early. I could close down the majority of the accounts for a relatively small amount compared to what I could lose if one of these major banks went bust(unlikely). Do I want to do this??? Who knows. It would just mean money offshore with HSBC instead of HBOS and no real guarantee of anything if the World as I know it collapses.

HSBC did offer me an onshore account (Premier) with a deposit of 50000 pounds. I thought about it, but the interest rate was so poor (4 per centish with the Premier account 'bonus'') I gave it a miss. I only went in there to get them to witness my passport and address details of my current account I hold with them so I could open an HSBC offshore account. I came out of there without the signature I needed and the feeling I had just had a hard sell I did not expect.

I think I will just hope the Lloyds TSB takeover will be successful - Gordon Brown has put all his weight behind it - so it should go ahead then

Anyway we shall see.

There are two things to be concerned about here for both of us, since I also have some funds with HBOS offshore. The first is whether the Lloyds deal will go through (I think it will since the major institutional investors have already give it the nod) and the second is whether the newly formed Lloyds/HBOS can survive, given the state of the combined mortgage book! In the case of the latter I come back to earlier points to suggest that it will survive - the UK government is actively involved to ensure deposits are not lost so the bigger the bank, the more effort they are likely to put in. Secondly, If Lloyds/HBOS were to fail the UK would be a totally different place because of the large number of people effected. Governments don't like to see banks fail because it would almost certainly involve the death of their party for the next fifty years or more! Can you imagine in ten years time, vote Labour they would say - ah yes, that's the party that lost the savings of a few million citizens, no chance the population would say.

Having said those things, next time you have a chance you perhaps want to think about splitting your savings between a few banks.

I agree in general with what you say. The trouble is though, I am an Expat and therefore cannot legally open an onshore UK bank account. Also, even if I could, I would have to close fixed term bank accounts with financial penalties.

I am also not sure that the UK electorate could give a stuff about an Expat losing his money in an offshore account.

The UK government may well explicitly guarantee ALL UK deposits over the next few days, but that will not explicitly include offshore accounts.

The current guarantees relating to offshore accounts are poor to useless IMHO. Perhaps HSBC is better than most, they seem to say they cover offshore deposits, whereas HBOS just have a letter of understanding to cover liabilites - whatever that means!!!

I guess if the UK government guarantees all savings for onshore UK accounts, then despite the penalty, I will close down my offshore accounts and move them all to my current onshore HBOS savings accounts. At least then they are 'safe'.

What will you do??? These are odd times - I never thought my savings with HBOS, onshore or offshore would cause me any loss of sleep!!

It's a big boat we're both in and we're not alone in it! I'm going to stay as is until I see the world differently. I'm not comfortable but I'm not overly worried either and the last thing I'm going to do is panic - let's just wait and see how it continues to unfold and perhaps exchange notes again later?