Giving Your Kids The Best

[rixalex]

Does giving your kids a privileged up-bringing have any draw-backs?

Many of the foreigners i meet here seem to have had what you might call a modest working-class up-bringing. If not modest, perhaps just normal, but certainly not privileged. It seems to have served them well. Did they succeed inspite of their modest beginnings, or because of them?

For me, i feel that not having had everything on a plate, and not having mixed exclusively amongst the middle or upper classes, i grew up to be fairly well-rounded and although no Einstein, have enough intellect and common-sense to have navigated through life reasonably successfully.

I'm proud of my roots and wouldn't wish to change my childhood in any way.

I know many others here who feel much the same. The interesting thing however is that when it comes their turn to raise children, they seem to give no second thought to giving their kids what's supposed to be the best of everything. I guess in many ways this is just natural instinct, after all, who doesn't want the best for their kids? But is it the best? Does paying for your kids to study at the "best" school amongst all the other privileged children of Thailand bring with it any drawbacks?

Do parents consider that just as not giving their children enough can mess them up, it's also possible for a child to be messed up (for want of a better word), by being given too much? A child of mixed race in Thailand is already pretty much guaranteed to be treated differently (invariably better) than their pure Thai peers. We all know the potentially dangerous outcome of a child getting special treatment. Is it possible that sending them to an elite school could compound the effects of all this?

Whilst i would obviously want for my child to have the best teachers and access to the best facilities, my concern of sending them to an expensive private school would be that they are not having enough exposure to "normal" working-class Thais and that they are missing out on certain life skills that they would benefit from at a more down-to-earth school.

So, what sort of school did you decide to send your kids to and how has it worked out?

[Moonrakers]

I have wondered the same thing for my daughter.

I have had the 'pleasure' of meeting some ABAC students in the past and they did not impress me as people at all, of course I am generalising here but that is my experience of them. Ideally I would like my daughter to go to a UK university because I think that she would be more likely to socialise with 'normal' people, although that will be down to her at the time.

Before that however I would like my daughter to go to a British curriculum international school and the same concerns arise. Although being far from wealthy any such school would need to have relatively low fees and so theoretically she would be less likely to mix with the 'toffs'

In the meantime however I hope to teach her what I can through good parenting. For example she will never go without something that she 'needs', but the things that she 'wants' must be earned on merit. Sadly this is something that seems tobe lacking amongst wealthier families here.

[Farma]

I grew up in modest surroundings too. I started work at 15 as the parents couldn’t afford to send me to college.

For one of my Leuk krung kids it’s been a different matter. Thanks to my work they’ve had access to the English based schooling. After a short period attending a government school for a year they moved onto a top boarding school. Both schools outside Thailand.

If there’s one thing I’ve picked up after many years working as an expat it’s not what you know but who you know and that’s where the best schools come in. The old school tie and all that. I’m not saying the best schools provide the best education but they do provide the contacts.

The first is just starting life’s journey and was offered a high paying job prior to finishing their education which started on completion. They’ve since moved onto even better employment. Both employers said they picked my kid over others due to the schools they had attended.

The second has been in both Thai and western government schools, unfortunately due to domestic issues that are beyond my control they haven’t had all the privileges my first child had but are still doing exceptionally well in certain fields. As such I believe they’ll not have employment prospects my first child had.

While the standard schooling results in a tougher worldlier individual, I believe the “best” schools do increase your child’s future prospects.

Edited October 4, 2008 by Farma

[Howsitgoin]

So, what sort of school did you decide to send your kids to and how has it worked out?

I believe this is comparing apples with oranges.

Here in Thailand, if you send your kids to a normal government school, your kids will have very little chance to be able to ever enter University. In addition you have a class system in which it still is more decisive what your family name is that your qualifications. Things are slowly changing (emphasis on slow).

In most parts of Europe, the best schools are government schools, children from underprivileged parents get all sort of assistance from the governments, most expensive private schools are for misfits from wealthy families.

Here you have the choice of giving your kid a good education in a snotty school, a so-so education in a OK private school, or a mess in a government school (unless your kid is smart enough and you well connected enough to get your kid in one of the elite government schools).

[rixalex]

I have wondered the same thing for my daughter.

I have had the 'pleasure' of meeting some ABAC students in the past and they did not impress me as people at all, of course I am generalising here but that is my experience of them. Ideally I would like my daughter to go to a UK university because I think that she would be more likely to socialise with 'normal' people, although that will be down to her at the time.

Before that however I would like my daughter to go to a British curriculum international school and the same concerns arise. Although being far from wealthy any such school would need to have relatively low fees and so theoretically she would be less likely to mix with the 'toffs'

In the meantime however I hope to teach her what I can through good parenting. For example she will never go without something that she 'needs', but the things that she 'wants' must be earned on merit. Sadly this is something that seems tobe lacking amongst wealthier families here.

My thoughts exactly.

I seem to have met more people here who have, in my eyes anyway, suffered the bad effects of an elite education and privileged background, than those who have suffered from having a basic "normal" Thai upbringing.

Who knows, maybe when it comes to the crunch, i'll have second thoughts, but my feeling now is that a "normal" Thai education, albeit with a fair amount of English classes if possible, is the best way to go, in terms of raising an unpretentious, down-to-earth kid.

Any of you guys send your kids to schools like this?

[rixalex]

Here you have the choice of giving your kid a good education in a snotty school, a so-so education in a OK private school, or a mess in a government school

I think you are being extremely unfair on government schooling there. It might be true that at one of these schools, if a kid isn't motivated by themselves to learn, they'll fall through the cracks, but for all those who are driven and want to do well, i think they can achieve whatever they set their minds to. Admittedly, they wouldn't have doors opened in their path automatically without proving themselves, as those from elite schools might do, but i'm not in favour of that anyway.

[DeeMaiDee]

I have wondered the same thing for my daughter.

I have had the 'pleasure' of meeting some ABAC students in the past and they did not impress me as people at all, of course I am generalising here but that is my experience of them. Ideally I would like my daughter to go to a UK university because I think that she would be more likely to socialise with 'normal' people, although that will be down to her at the time.

Before that however I would like my daughter to go to a British curriculum international school and the same concerns arise. Although being far from wealthy any such school would need to have relatively low fees and so theoretically she would be less likely to mix with the 'toffs'

In the meantime however I hope to teach her what I can through good parenting. For example she will never go without something that she 'needs', but the things that she 'wants' must be earned on merit. Sadly this is something that seems tobe lacking amongst wealthier families here.

My thoughts exactly.

I seem to have met more people here who have, in my eyes anyway, suffered the bad effects of an elite education and privileged background, than those who have suffered from having a basic "normal" Thai upbringing.

Who knows, maybe when it comes to the crunch, i'll have second thoughts, but my feeling now is that a "normal" Thai education, albeit with a fair amount of English classes if possible, is the best way to go, in terms of raising an unpretentious, down-to-earth kid.

Any of you guys send your kids to schools like this?

Agree, my boy is in a normal Thai school and doing well, we are pleased with his progress. As for the elist school attendees, eventually they will find their level of capability measured against ther capabilities just as my kid will. Employers will not retain a halfwit just because the attende a particular school that privelige is reserved for for the elite halfwits'.

[benjamat]

Yes I think that if we really love our kids we will always want to give them the best and of course the best schooling we can provide is right up there but not all important.

Many many so called modern generation parents in the west have been devastated to watch their offspring turn into something different than they had wished and worked hard for. It is the age old problem of young versus old.

I fall into this category in spite of dedicating myself almost entirely to the welfare and education of my children and I know I am far from alone in being dissappointed with the outcome. While I try not to let the kids see that I am dissappointed it sits in my heart as a failure.

So, I have always tried to give my kids the best in terms of both all I can pay for (education, travel etc) and what I can show them by example and recounting lifes experiences, but I have this sickly feeling of failure. Why is it that they seem to either not understand or ignore what I try and pass on to them in order to ease their passage through life.

I can only think it is lifes experience itself, my kids have "never been hungry and never been cold" so it is unreasonable for me to expect them to assimilate the lessons and values that have formed my charachter. Even if wanting them to is wrong.

The other element is that with the internet and general communication being what it is there are many more influences on children than when I was young, No longer is the parent/home the sole or vastly dominant influence on their charachters or their developement in general.

[Howsitgoin]

I think you are being extremely unfair on government schooling there.

I am surrounded by more than a few products of government schools. Compared to their age peers in the west they are far behind other than in the abilities of rote learning.

I am not in favor of either a messy education of government schools or the snotty path to patronage, and therefore will relocate to the west when my son has to go to school.

[Misty]

For me, i feel that not having had everything on a plate, and not having mixed exclusively amongst the middle or upper classes, i grew up to be fairly well-rounded and although no Einstein, have enough intellect and common-sense to have navigated through life reasonably successfully.

I tend to agree with this way of thinking.

Reminds me of "The Rose and the Ring" a Thackeray yarn in which the Fairy Blackstick "blesses" two royally born children, a boy and a girl, at their respective births with -- "a little bit of misfortune." So cursed, they each fall on hard times and grow up unaware of their respective birthrights, having to struggle and serve others. They end up to be humble and of good character, come into their birthrights, and live happily ever after. Their plight is contrasted to that of two of their cousins who were not cursed and end up to be spoiled, shallow, and useless.

Interestingly this is given as a biography of Thackeray on Amazon. Seems like he knew something of his subject:

"Thackeray, an only child, was born in Calcutta. He studied at Cambridge, but, never a keen student, he left the University in 1830 to travel the continent. He began to study law but gave it up and squandered much of his inheritance on gambling and poor investments. He studied art in Paris, but he did not pursue that professionally either, except to illustrate his own novels.He was a successful novelist, earning the adulation of the very people he satirized. His death at 53 was unexpected."

[manjara]

I have wondered the same thing for my daughter.

I have had the 'pleasure' of meeting some ABAC students in the past and they did not impress me as people at all, of course I am generalising here but that is my experience of them. Ideally I would like my daughter to go to a UK university because I think that she would be more likely to socialise with 'normal' people, although that will be down to her at the time.

....

Agree, my boy is in a normal Thai school and doing well, we are pleased with his progress. As for the elist school attendees, eventually they will find their level of capability measured against ther capabilities just as my kid will. Employers will not retain a halfwit just because the attende a particular school that privelige is reserved for for the elite halfwits'.

I send my kids to a British Curriculum school with foreign teachers etc. It is quite expensive, at least by thai standards though not by UK standards for a private school. The main reason I sent them there was so that they learn to speak English properly/fluently. As most of their influence at home is thai and I am away on business a lot, they were only speaking thai at home, though they understood english quite well.

Initially my daughter went to a thai nursery, but she hated it there and used to cry every day when I dropped her off. When she started the British school she completely changed. Now she loves school and is disappointed when the weekend comes. She speaks English more than thai now, though is fluent in each. Sure, she is mixing with 'high-class' thai kids and expats kids, but I don't think it has a negative effect unless you allow it to.

If I was in the UK, my daughters would probably be at state school and I would not mind sending her to thai school here if I could find one that was any good.

The main measure, in my mind, of the standard of thai education is the level of English that is achieved by Thai students in the thai schools. It's not very good and most thais are unable to string a sentence together in English (unless they worked in a bar!).

[Gravelrash]

Raising children is no easy task. Mine are in Thailand, and despite it's faults I prefer them to be here. Both are still children in what they do and how they act, whereas others back home in their age group could be into drugs and sleeping around already. It isn't just education that makes the person it is their personality.

Outside school my kids both study music, although different instruments, and train in martial arts. The former to get the creative side of the mind working and the latter for self defense but also to build character.

They don't attend an international school but a private school with a good reputation for academic achievement. Although life now is comfortable when I first arrived we shared a single bedroom above a shop house with no running or hot water. It was shower by bucket, I hope they will remember the tough times.

[lifeisrandom]

look i don't have any kids but i have to be honest, in my experience (i am mid 20's) most kids who grew up rich were spoiled little bed wetting brats and turned into lame adults. i don't think that is the way it has to be. i know that there are plenty of rich parents who do a good job raising their kids, but i think the spoiled brats outweigh them heavily. then again, like 3 out of 4 people on this planet are fuc_king idiots so maybe it all works out the same.

its pretty funny when you see the Isaan nanny dragging around the little farang kids. Mom and Dad must be soooo busy.

[lifeisrandom]

"Does paying for your kids to study at the "best" school amongst all the other privileged children of Thailand bring with it any drawbacks?"

it depends on the child. most children would be get just as much out of a cheaper school. if your kid is into school than i think its a good expense to pay. if your kid hates school than you are wasting money.

[bina]

well, iwas raised in a priveleged family including private school (quaker, althernative not 'prep'), and ended up on kibbutz. am now married to unschooled thai farmer type. i dont think my parents are disappointed. i have managed to work in various fields including manual labour, but also was required to work from young age (dog sitting, later to work in real work, thru out college i worked). my kids have been raised as 'silver spoon' children. on kibbutz they get everything but money... some have come out spoiled brats, others are great. anon thinks they are spoiled brats but then doesnt realize that all their priveleges are for developing them towards future employement, as here too, who u know is more important often then 'what' u know.

he has a bit of reverse snobism as being 'bannork' and undereducated, but able, literally, to survive on nothing, having survival skills that surpass any of those on reality tv.

i suspect that thai education in up country is ok for social stuff , IF your child is a well adjusted type. any child with special needs, well, we've heard on the forum, and i've witnessed in thailand and heard from my husband the attitude towards children w/special needs or whom dont fit in. two of mine are special needs and if they had been in a thai school, they wouldnt have made any progress at all. not sure if they would have progressed in a 'snooty' type school either since achievment based schools in my opinion arent worth anything also. also, as people here often say, it is the teacher u get for your child that often makes or breaks the education level. and the amount of violence in the school.

possibly the role of parent education is more important if your child is in a 'regular' school, and if your child is in a hoity toity type place, then summers working for their pocket money, and volunteer type stuff might tip the scales a bit. not sure how good a basic school in city metropolitan areas would be, but western type schools that i've heard about, and from what i've seen here, the country doesnt matter, its the amount of decent teachers that matters and the involvment of the parents in their kids educataion.

bina

[Heng]

The most important issue is what kind of person you raise them to be. It's not really accurate to write off the institution (whether it's ABAC or Harvard) because of examples of 'bad apples' that attend those schools. Their parents and peers likely made them more of what they are than their university did.

For myself, I went to public schools (Texas) and topped it off at a diploma mill state college.

For my kids, we'll do second tier private schools (not the best) and then options for the best (if they can qualify themselves) prep and university education if they show the potential/hunger. At home, it'll be a comfortable life but not one where you want for nothing, basically the same deal my parents had for me, and my grandparents had for them. If I feel they seem to be leaning towards the "heck, that's fine... I can live with "comfortable," then I'll systematically lower that level of comfort until the 'hunger' (life wise, not literally) gene starts to kick in. On the whole, that's pretty much the way my entire extended family works, and IMO the results are pretty good. Just about everyone enjoys varying levels of success at what they do, and the few examples of rotten apples don't create enough drag to weigh us down.

[bdenner]

This topic seems to relate to education. WELL -- I was very average when it came to schooling but finished up with a good career and well rewarded. Unfortunately through some genetic orders (mine or the exes) my 2 girls were on the same path. Both worked through McDonalds and then onto a good career in sales orientated positions, but very average high school grades.

OK - I bought them their first car (420 series Volvo) They hated it. -- But it is still on the road today after a friend has had his 2 kids learn to drive AND survive in it also.

I bought the eldest daughter a NEW home and have the means to do the same with the 2nd when she can let go of her mothers apron string.

TW's daughter attends a private school and will be well looked after also. Where's the problem.

I do for them what my parents tried to do for me. It's the Farang way NOT Thai. There is NO way will I have any offspring of mine feeding and watering me into my olde age even though I live here and been here for near to 8 years.

[Heng]

Property wise, they don't get everything until their parents kick the bucket. They'll get sensible cars (or maybe not if they don't seem ready... whereas it'll be the public bus) or trucks, probably new but not luxury class, but again, that's not set in stone either, might go used or luxury if it seems they are ready for that. Real estate wise, nothing gets transferred to them, but they can use existing property to build businesses out of. If they fail (which hopefully they will often enough to learn a few things), then they start at square one again, but aren't in the red. Will even let them mess up their credit a little bit so they learn what kinds of risks everyone else has to deal with.

[rixalex]

Yes I think that if we really love our kids we will always want to give them the best and of course the best schooling we can provide is right up there but not all important.

Many many so called modern generation parents in the west have been devastated to watch their offspring turn into something different than they had wished and worked hard for. It is the age old problem of young versus old.

I fall into this category in spite of dedicating myself almost entirely to the welfare and education of my children and I know I am far from alone in being dissappointed with the outcome. While I try not to let the kids see that I am dissappointed it sits in my heart as a failure.

So, I have always tried to give my kids the best in terms of both all I can pay for (education, travel etc) and what I can show them by example and recounting lifes experiences, but I have this sickly feeling of failure. Why is it that they seem to either not understand or ignore what I try and pass on to them in order to ease their passage through life.

I can only think it is lifes experience itself, my kids have "never been hungry and never been cold" so it is unreasonable for me to expect them to assimilate the lessons and values that have formed my charachter. Even if wanting them to is wrong.

The other element is that with the internet and general communication being what it is there are many more influences on children than when I was young, No longer is the parent/home the sole or vastly dominant influence on their charachters or their developement in general.

Before when i've met the parents of kids who haven't turned out quite as i would have hoped, had i been their parent, i often wonder how the parents do feel about it. I think in most cases the parents don't see it, or perhaps just don't bring themselves to see it. Love is blind after all.

To read your comments Benjamat, i find it both refreshing that there are parents out there that have the perspective to see things for how they really are, but also very sad that you feel that way.

It seems like you did everything you could for them, so i hope you aren't too hard on yourself.

[Maizefarmer]

Does giving your kids a privileged up-bringing have any draw-backs?

Many of the foreigners i meet here seem to have had what you might call a modest working-class up-bringing. If not modest, perhaps just normal, but certainly not privileged. It seems to have served them well. Did they succeed inspite of their modest beginnings, or because of them?

For me, i feel that not having had everything on a plate, and not having mixed exclusively amongst the middle or upper classes, i grew up to be fairly well-rounded and although no Einstein, have enough intellect and common-sense to have navigated through life reasonably successfully.

I'm proud of my roots and wouldn't wish to change my childhood in any way.

I know many others here who feel much the same. The interesting thing however is that when it comes their turn to raise children, they seem to give no second thought to giving their kids what's supposed to be the best of everything. I guess in many ways this is just natural instinct, after all, who doesn't want the best for their kids? But is it the best? Does paying for your kids to study at the "best" school amongst all the other privileged children of Thailand bring with it any drawbacks?

Do parents consider that just as not giving their children enough can mess them up, it's also possible for a child to be messed up (for want of a better word), by being given too much? A child of mixed race in Thailand is already pretty much guaranteed to be treated differently (invariably better) than their pure Thai peers. We all know the potentially dangerous outcome of a child getting special treatment. Is it possible that sending them to an elite school could compound the effects of all this?

Whilst i would obviously want for my child to have the best teachers and access to the best facilities, my concern of sending them to an expensive private school would be that they are not having enough exposure to "normal" working-class Thais and that they are missing out on certain life skills that they would benefit from at a more down-to-earth school.

So, what sort of school did you decide to send your kids to and how has it worked out?

The best thing you can give your kids is the best education you can afford - and make no doubt about it: private education in Thailand is ahead of state education. But remember that is not the all of it, so to speak.

A child is a product of its upbringing, which means far more than just what takes place in the classroom and at school. Its about what takes place at home as well, and about how one brings up their children. What values and principals you instill in your kids is as important (if not more so) than what they learn or experiance in the school enviroment.

[rixalex]

The best thing you can give your kids is the best education you can afford - and make no doubt about it: private education in Thailand is ahead of state education. But remember that is not the all of it, so to speak.

A child is a product of its upbringing, which means far more than just what takes place in the classroom and at school. Its about what takes place at home as well, and about how one brings up their children. What values and principals you instill in your kids is as important (if not more so) than what they learn or experiance in the school enviroment.

You obviously have confidence that your influence over your children is more powerful than the effects that studying surrounded by all those kids from the upper spectrum of Thai society will have.

Who can say which will prove the bigger factor in moulding the people they become.

What i do know is that there's a social imbalance at these elite schools that makes me very uncomfortable. Would i want to mix day-to-day exclusively with the parents of these kids, as i am expecting my kids to do with their children? In many cases i would say probably no. Not that they are necessarily bad people, just that they are not my sort of people. So why would i put my kids into an environment that i wouldn't choose for myself? For the sake of their education? Perhaps, but i'm not even convinced that the standards are that much higher. Scrape beneath the glossy veneer, take away the shiny new minibuses and the newly constructed indoor swimming pool, and you might well find in terms of what really matters, there's not much in it.

[Heng]

Seems like you've already made up your mind and are looking for support.

The facilities are there for the kids to make use of (and it's largely up to parents to nudge their kids in the direction of becoming the type of people who want access their resourceful side...); that's true whether you're talking about the a well stocked library or supercomputers. "Imbalance" or not, there's simply no access to such 'tools' the further "down" you go.

Edited October 5, 2008 by Heng

[way2muchcoffee]

I've been working as a teacher in Thailand for the last 7 years. There is no way would I send my child to a government school, unless it was Triam Udom or something similar. Most Thai schools lack necessary resources like decent textbooks, good teachers, proper curriculum, competitive and fair grading, science labs, and the list goes on and on and on.

Moreover, as a Westerner, I am not in a position to provide the necessary contacts for my child to be given opportunities for real success in Thailand. Call it snobbery, but in my view it is just the reality of the Thai education and employment systems. I would want my child to have opportunities and I believe that sending them to a local government school would, in almost all cases, be starting them out in life with a very serious, and possibly insurmountable handicap.

Edited October 5, 2008 by way2muchcoffee

[rixalex]

Seems like you've already made up your mind and are looking for support.

Actually Heng, no I haven't, and nor can i until i'm placed with the decision right before me. This is all just hypothetical stuff for me now.

Although i do have an already formed opinion about the sort of elite schooling you obviously favour, i'm not beyond changing it, especially if it's for the good of my future children.

Edited October 5, 2008 by rixalex

[way2muchcoffee]

I should clarify. I might consider sending my child to a government school for the first 3 years of primary education. After that I would change schools. I think as a parent you would be in a position of keeping your child grounded.

Edited October 5, 2008 by way2muchcoffee

[rixalex]

I should clarify. I might consider sending my child to a government school for the first 3 years of primary education. After that I would change schools.

Now that's an idea i can see a lot of merit in, although i'm sure they'll be those that say these first 3 years lay the foundations for the rest of their schooling lives, and those 3 years will put them forever behind.

[way2muchcoffee]

By the account of most teachers I know here, the Thai system does pretty well with primary education. It is secondary and tertiary schooling that needs serious improvement.

[Heng]

Seems like you've already made up your mind and are looking for support.

Actually Heng, no I haven't, and nor can i until i'm placed with the decision right before me. This is all just hypothetical stuff for me now.

Although i do have an already formed opinion about the sort of elite schooling you obviously favour, i'm not beyond changing it, especially if it's for the good of my future children.

That's good to hear. And actually I don't favor what are considered the 'elite' K-12 schools in Thailand. I leave them as options if they wanted or seemed better suited to transfer to later. Gov't schools as well if they/we for some reason felt they would be better served there. As mentioned, for now I prefer second tier private schools: partly because the classroom size is still kept under control somewhat and because there's a more diverse mix in terms of socio-economic status -IMO the diversity of nationalities at the tier one inter schools are a plus in their favor-. At ISB/RIS (my sister is an alum of the later), while you'll have some children of parents who are breaking their backs to pay tuition, for the most part the student body tends to be made up of children of privilege. I'd like my kids to be in constant contact with those who are worse AND better off during their most impressionable years.

Edited October 5, 2008 by Heng