Police Fire Tear Gas At Protesters In Front Of Parliament

[mdechgan]

I prefer democratic means to get rid of a government, that's not what the PAD is doing, as such I cannot support them.

Democratic means to get rid of a non-democratic government?

Until a court of law will come up with a verdict to punish the PPP for vote buying, this is a democratically elected government.

You know there is an argument that some people should have the right to sell their vote if they wish to.

[filingaccount]

Is anyone else noticing the obvious photochopping on the "lost limb" photos?

Namely the area of the injury is blurry to a fault whereas the rest of the photo is near perfect in focus. And no, doesn't look like motion blur.

Is this due to the publisher not wanting to show too much detail or is it something else?

[sylviex]

Questions have arisen over whether tear gas canisters could blow off limbs and toes and feet, some of the more gruesome injuries suffered by protesters.

Demonstrators accused police of using grenades; authorities denied it and say they only used tear gas on the crowd.

Associated Press photographer David Longstreath, a veteran of several wars and major demonstrations, said that despite the police denial he saw stun grenades being thrown into the crowds. He and other AP staffers were overpowered with unusually potent tear gas which sent one into repeated semiconscious swoons and required hospital treatment for another.

Rather than spray tear gas or fire canisters in the general direction of the demonstrators, as is commonly done, the police often hurled tear gas and stun grenades into the crowds, increasing the chances for injuries, Longstreath said.

Protesters, meanwhile, say their gathering was peaceful, but many used iron rods, slingshots, firecrackers and bottles to attack police. Though many protesters were unarmed, an AP Television News reporter saw at least three protesters carrying guns. Authorities say some protesters also had explosive devices.

An Associated Press reporter saw two police inside the parliamentary compound who had been shot by unknown assailants.

CNN

[jackyseymour]

supporting a corrupt government which is as well violent and got in place only due to massive vote buying without getting paid is weird.

I must admit, I didn't know that there are true and honest supporter of corruption.

I know Fascists, Communists, Socialists, but I didn't know that. What is the name of this political direction? Corruptionism? And the members are Corruptionists?

I'm not supporting the current government in any way, I'm just trying to point out that the PAD isn't any better, and in this exchange of words, I'm just trying to point out, that foreigners who are opposed to PAD, might not be paid to do so, but might have some valid concerns for doing so. And it certainly doesn't equal support for the current government.

If it were not for the PAD Taksin would be bleeding this country dry. The reason why a lot of foreigners are so put out about the PAD and their continuing success in stopping the rot, is because, quite simply, they believe Taksin's proxy government will free up land ownership laws for foreigners. Self interest is all. But you must understand that that will never happen. Well, not unless he and his despicable bunch of amoral reprobates can make enough money out of it of course.

[jdinasia]

I prefer democratic means to get rid of a government, that's not what the PAD is doing, as such I cannot support them.

Democratic means to get rid of a non-democratic government?

Until a court of law will come up with a verdict to punish the PPP for vote buying, this is a democratically elected government.

You know there is an argument that some people should have the right to sell their vote if they wish to.

Hmmm so you see that you are caught in your own diminishing circle of thinking and look to see a different solution? If you allow vote-buying (truly a non-democratic process) then there is no way you can make any statements about elitist groups since who but the rich, elite, powerful have the cash to buy votes?

[sriracha john]

Asked whether he would impose an emergency decree, Somchai said, “I do not think (about it).”

Fixed

Somchai Wongsawat met foreign ambassadors on Wednesday to try and calm fears of further unrest, the government said.

The meeting, however, had to be cut short after rumors circulated that anti-government protesters were marching on the foreign ministry, prompting the ambassadors and Somchai to leave the building.

Thai Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat briefs Southeast Asian ambassadors at the Foreign Ministry in Bangkok on October 8, 2008 about the deepening political crisis.

Reuters

*Edit:

1,000th post of this thread.

* Re-Edit:

Now only Post #997....

You guys and your deleted posts.... sheesh...

Edited October 8, 2008 by sriracha john

[mdechgan]

Is anyone else noticing the obvious photochopping on the "lost limb" photos?

Namely the area of the injury is blurry to a fault whereas the rest of the photo is near perfect in focus. And no, doesn't look like motion blur.

Is this due to the publisher not wanting to show too much detail or is it something else?

This is normal for the Thai media. On t.v. cigarettes and knives are also blurred.

[Payboy]

A THAI flight denies PPP MP

A People Power Party MP was denied boarding a THAI flight from Bangkok to Khon Kaen on Wednesday morning.

Farida Sulaiman, an MP of Surin province, was about to board TG 1040 flight which was scheduled to leave Bangkok at about 6.15am.

Manager newspaper online reported that captain of the flight, whose name is not revealed, came out of the cockpit and announced that his flight will not allow any PPP MPs or any politicians who harm people to board.

Farida reportedly wore a jacket which has PPP logo and name on the back.

Upon learning the captain's announcement, Farida agreed to board another flight.

- The Nation / 2008-10-08

i wonder what his bosses have to say about losing them profit...

he'll probably be applying at garuda soon....

Or getting a raise / commendation. IIRC, THAI airways was supporting the PAD and threatening to strike during the Samak controversy.

that was the labour union, but their management may be likewise inclined seeing that they are full of airforce dinosaurs...

but afterall thai is long overdue for a distress sale; and once it's bought out by the singaporeans, we may even see changed alliances...

Edited October 8, 2008 by Payboy

[sriracha john]

No pockets near the wound on this one either.

Uh... I'm not sure if you want a written apology. Oh wait, that's what I already gave you...

Sorry, but I wasn't specifically aiming that at you. Others have been speculating on throughout the thread as well. Your apology earlier was duly noted and I appreciated your doing so.

[mdechgan]

Asked whether he would impose an emergency decree, Somchai said, “I do not think (about it).”

Fixed

Somchai Wongsawat met foreign ambassadors on Wednesday to try and calm fears of further unrest, the government said.

The meeting, however, had to be cut short after rumors circulated that anti-government protesters were marching on the foreign ministry, prompting the ambassadors and Somchai to leave the building.

Thai Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat briefs Southeast Asian ambassadors at the Foreign Ministry in Bangkok on October 8, 2008 about the deepening political crisis.

Reuters

*Edit:

1,000th post of this thread.

I don't trust this guy anymore. Why would the PPP nominate anyone even closely related to the square faced Englishman.

All was ok last week. Now Chamlong get arrested on Sunday and the next Tuesday the police start to force the protesters using lethal force. Even Samak didn't use tear gas.

This guy hasn't been PM for a few days and he's causing all kinds of hel_l.

[jackyseymour]

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: Riot Police battle anti Govt protesters in Bangkok

Quote: The source also said Gen Worawat got the job because he had the backing of Mr Thaksin.

Ed Note:

Looks as though Gen Worawat (and the telephone lines to London) will be busy...

-Some may be wondering why this is all blowing up again now, just when all was calm again while Thaksin's brother in law PM was 'appearing' to invite the PAD and all sectors of the public to participate in a re-defined constitution.

Well, it turns out House Speaker Chai Chidchob had also accepted a petition by pro-govt DAAD supporters to revert back to the 1997 constitution and this was/is suddenly set for a priority reading this week (thus, a majority vote cake-walk and no need for inclusion).

The primary concern by some is, the Govt isn't interested in anything other than serving their own and Thaksin's interests. Many now see the Govt's overtures for outside participation in constitution change as a time-buying smokescreen whilst their real plan is to revert to the old '97 charter. Their faint and desperate hope being this may null and void vote-fraud charges pending, PPP dissolution, plus charges to the Thaksins.

-This, along with the arrest of Chamlong, coinciding with the confirmation the Thaksin's have officially applied for asylum in the UK all culminate in today's escalated events.

One hopes their won't be more blood shed in this. But since it appears highly suspicious a protester lost a leg to mere tear gas, one also suspects this won't wrap-up without further injuries (hopefully not fatalities).

-Some may also have a re-newed concern regarding the possibility of another coup - if the police cross a line (fatalities) and the military is called in/comes in. Given that many Thaksin-loyal team-players are in place now, the concern becomes (a possibility at least) for a bloody coup this time around, with pro/anti military factions set against each other...

-Solution lost? All the Govt had to do was pull DAAD leader Weng's petition to revert to the '97 constitution and continue on with including outside parties, common people, professionals, business leaders etc to contribute to a new constitution. BUT this moment is gone now and besides, since the PPP/TRT/Thaksin would not likely have benefitted, they wouldn't have been sincerely interested at any rate.

The Govt wants absolute exoneration for PPP/TRT and the Thaksins and will stop at NOTHING to get it. Self-serving Constitution change, along with inflitration of every independent Govt agency and watchdog, producing a hoped-for DYNASTY to feed unfetteret at the public trough awaits. Nothing else is more important to them, not even the Nation's or the people's interest, period.

Even a parasite knows better than to consume it's host, but one wonders if Thaksin knows this rule of nature, or could care less...'winning' becomes all-consuming, especially if one has a simmering vendetta...

This sums up the current crisis for those who need clarification in the English language.

[sylviex]

Well I know many people that would like to or have and urge to run over crooked cops with a pickup or atleast stabbed them.

I mean hey if some rich kid driving a benz could run over a crowd and not get charged why not use a pickup truck to defend yourself?

.

OK; while I think I understand your point, any claims that the PAD supporters are unarmed & defenceless seem quite untenable. This is not a peaceful protest and I fail to see how any of this violence can be helpful to anyone's cause. The whole situation looks more farcical by the day.

The Asian stock market is crashing but who'd know -- people are too preoccupied with their street fighting. Perhaps that's the idea.

[h90]

supporting a corrupt government which is as well violent and got in place only due to massive vote buying without getting paid is weird.

I must admit, I didn't know that there are true and honest supporter of corruption.

I know Fascists, Communists, Socialists, but I didn't know that. What is the name of this political direction? Corruptionism? And the members are Corruptionists?

I'm not supporting the current government in any way, I'm just trying to point out that the PAD isn't any better, and in this exchange of words, I'm just trying to point out, that foreigners who are opposed to PAD, might not be paid to do so, but might have some valid concerns for doing so. And it certainly doesn't equal support for the current government.

The purpose of the PAD is to oust the government, nothing more nothing less. Everything else are thoughts, dreams on what to do than.

The PAD contains a spectrum from ultra left till ultra right. The only thing the share together is the will to oust the government. If you want to get rid of the government you must go to the PAD. No matter if you love or hate Sondhi. As he knows that he promised not to go in politics.

I prefer democratic means to get rid of a government, that's not what the PAD is doing, as such I cannot support them.

With the fraud at elections and vote buying you'll wait 1000 years to get rid of it on a "democratic" way.

[jackyseymour]

Well I know many people that would like to or have and urge to run over crooked cops with a pickup or atleast stabbed them.

I mean hey if some rich kid driving a benz could run over a crowd and not get charged why not use a pickup truck to defend yourself?

.

OK; while I think I understand your point, any claims that the PAD supporters are unarmed & defenceless seem quite untenable. This is not a peaceful protest and I fail to see how any of this violence can be helpful to anyone's cause. The whole situation looks more farcical by the day.

The Asian stock market is crashing but who'd know -- people are too preoccupied with their street fighting. Perhaps that's the idea.

Do you actually take the time to look at ASTV and their rolling coverage of their protest rally, do you? Take a look. What do you see?! Urban guerillas, AK47s at the ready? Really. For shame.

[sriracha john]

Is anyone else noticing the obvious photochopping on the "lost limb" photos?

Namely the area of the injury is blurry to a fault whereas the rest of the photo is near perfect in focus. And no, doesn't look like motion blur.

Is this due to the publisher not wanting to show too much detail or is it something else?

need to read the thread...

The leg amputation has already been posted. Here's the other victim of "tear-gassing"....

TOC

Strange how everything else has better resolution but the alleged injury is quite blurry. Any poster an expert on PhotoShop altering?

Perhaps we could ask Dr. Wanchai Charoenchokthavee if his patient's missing foot was only photoshopped out.

Despite Thailand's long history of publishing gruesome photos, of late they have taken to make especially bad portions blurry for the benefit of the easily squeamished.

[mdechgan]

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: Riot Police battle anti Govt protesters in Bangkok

Quote: The source also said Gen Worawat got the job because he had the backing of Mr Thaksin.

Ed Note:

Looks as though Gen Worawat (and the telephone lines to London) will be busy...

-Some may be wondering why this is all blowing up again now, just when all was calm again while Thaksin's brother in law PM was 'appearing' to invite the PAD and all sectors of the public to participate in a re-defined constitution.

Well, it turns out House Speaker Chai Chidchob had also accepted a petition by pro-govt DAAD supporters to revert back to the 1997 constitution and this was/is suddenly set for a priority reading this week (thus, a majority vote cake-walk and no need for inclusion).

The primary concern by some is, the Govt isn't interested in anything other than serving their own and Thaksin's interests. Many now see the Govt's overtures for outside participation in constitution change as a time-buying smokescreen whilst their real plan is to revert to the old '97 charter. Their faint and desperate hope being this may null and void vote-fraud charges pending, PPP dissolution, plus charges to the Thaksins.

-This, along with the arrest of Chamlong, coinciding with the confirmation the Thaksin's have officially applied for asylum in the UK all culminate in today's escalated events.

One hopes their won't be more blood shed in this. But since it appears highly suspicious a protester lost a leg to mere tear gas, one also suspects this won't wrap-up without further injuries (hopefully not fatalities).

-Some may also have a re-newed concern regarding the possibility of another coup - if the police cross a line (fatalities) and the military is called in/comes in. Given that many Thaksin-loyal team-players are in place now, the concern becomes (a possibility at least) for a bloody coup this time around, with pro/anti military factions set against each other...

-Solution lost? All the Govt had to do was pull DAAD leader Weng's petition to revert to the '97 constitution and continue on with including outside parties, common people, professionals, business leaders etc to contribute to a new constitution. BUT this moment is gone now and besides, since the PPP/TRT/Thaksin would not likely have benefitted, they wouldn't have been sincerely interested at any rate.

The Govt wants absolute exoneration for PPP/TRT and the Thaksins and will stop at NOTHING to get it. Self-serving Constitution change, along with inflitration of every independent Govt agency and watchdog, producing a hoped-for DYNASTY to feed unfetteret at the public trough awaits. Nothing else is more important to them, not even the Nation's or the people's interest, period.

Even a parasite knows better than to consume it's host, but one wonders if Thaksin knows this rule of nature, or could care less...'winning' becomes all-consuming, especially if one has a simmering vendetta...

This sums up the current crisis for those who need clarification in the English language.

Great summary. All these events the past month just seem to be too improbable to be just a coincidence.

[animatic]

Is anyone else noticing the obvious photochopping on the "lost limb" photos?

Namely the area of the injury is blurry to a fault whereas the rest of the photo is near perfect in focus. And no, doesn't look like motion blur.

Is this due to the publisher not wanting to show too much detail or is it something else?

This is normal for the Thai media. On t.v. cigarettes and knives are also blurred.

Ditto.

There were earlier in this thread smaller images that were not blurred.

One person said he was ready to throw up.

Having seen this in person, years ago, can understand his reaction.

It amazes me they even release the photos in the press like this.

But I think the need is to show proof.

If you randomly fired a slug on the ground just in front of the crowd,

it would take out an ankle like we saw above.

If it skipped and ricocheted up it would take out the shin like above also.

It may or may not have been someone in police lines,

but SOMEONE was shooting with real deadly weapons with intent to maim,

and terrify, if not kill outright.

Dispicable piece of shit for doing it too.

Edited October 8, 2008 by animatic

[jumnien]

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/JI09Ae02.html

ATol: How much do your rallies cost per day?

Sondhi: One million baht [uS$29,000] inclusive, including everything, satellite time, staff.

ATol: Who gets compensated and who doesn't?

Sondhi: The volunteers don't get paid. Some of the personal security gets paid because they are the ex-policemen and ex-military. They are professionals.

I hope the PAD members who are doing the shooting are trying to avoid killing any police. They did say they try to stop short of lethal force and only leave their victims unable to walk. If they are giving guns and explosives to untrained PAD members it could get worse.

That's one of the many problems with PAD. Their explosives experts are not on the front lines and they give powerful explosives to ordinary rent-an-out-of-work-street-venders and the results are people blowing themselves up in their cars and legs blown off, etc. We've all been chanting to the Army to go back to their barracks for over two years now, but we didn't realize they'd give bombs to bums and then just bugger off.

[Bagwan]

Actually there are serious reasons to believe these poor guys blow themselves up by poorly manufactured home-made pipe bombs. And as far as my source is concerned, the police don't manufacture their own ammunitions. Live by the sword …

Pierrot = Clown Nothing more to be said.

[mdechgan]

Does anyone know what stance the military is taking?

Are they pro government or anti government?

Their have been conflicting loyalty stories. Some say many were placed by Thaksin while many others were against his meddling of the military shuffle.

[Splatter]

had them in their pockets? were their pants around their ankles? .... again get real!

You have honestly never heard of cargo pants? Those are the pants that have pocket down in the leg itself. Sometimes, they hang as low as the upper shin, which is where *gasp* the leg ends on some of these folks now.

BFD!

Look at the photos in Thai newspapers, or the paper my lot in the office brought me ("Toola Tamin"...apologies for spelling). The guy with his leg below the shin blown off is wearing the remains of a pair of regular jeans.

Page 2 of Bangkok Post shows the guy with his foot off. He's wearing trousers with no pockets on the side. And on his remaining foot a "Basketball Boot"

[john b good]

Dear mister Somchai is showing his true face very fast. He asks for peace with one hand and with the other hand he commits violence. Shows what kind of a person he is.

Waerth

What kind of person he is??? He was unblocking the parliament building.

The PAD should not have been blocking it. Tear gas is the only language they understand.

Am I missing something here?

YES! You are missing a great deal.....

[MellowYellow]

So the PAD elitist leaders are disturbed that TRT/PPP have stolen/are stealing what the PAD folks wish to steal?

This therefore justifies lawlessness, seizing control of public buildings and preventing government from functioning?

Police are NOT justified in moving unlawful gatherings from disrupting government and commerce?

Random mobs ARE justified in attacking whoever and whatever they see fit because THEY ARE RIGHT DAMMIT?

Truthfully, it sounds like the PPP and PAD deserve each other and Thailand deserves them both to be disbanded, dispersed, and imprisoned.

[sylviex]

Do you actually take the time to look at ASTV and their rolling coverage of their protest rally, do you? Take a look. What do you see?! Urban guerillas, AK47s at the ready? Really. For shame.

An unnecessarily brittle response. I have looked at the TV footage. I can't imagine anyone would defend the shooting of the policemen during the "seige" nor any of the other violence. I am not takng political sides so much as commenting on the futility of the damage being done to people all round. I don't think the majority of the protesters are armed but clearly some are and the situation is now dangerously volatile. I feel sorry for everyone -- they seem to be trapped in a mess they don't know how to exit.

Edited October 8, 2008 by sylviex

[mdechgan]

Well I only see two ways to end this.

1) The government brutally and totally without a doubt, crush the PAD rebellion by all means necessary and regain control of the house. Round them up and put the entire crowd in jail. Just like in Burma or China to show who's the boss and the government is a strong one that won't take crap from plastic clappers.

2) The current government is a joke, will not work and only serves its own purpose to stay in power so dissolve the house and ban all people remotely connected to the old regime in any way. I mean ban the entire government and its ministers for life never to be able to return to politics not just like a couple years. To remove a weed you have to bring out its roots.

Edited October 8, 2008 by mdechgan

[Moonrakers]

Well I only see two ways to end this.

1) The government brutally and totally without a doubt, crush the PAD rebellion by all means necessary and regain control of the house. Round them up and put the entire crowd in jail. Just like in Burma or China to show who's the boss and the government is a strong one that won't take crap from plastic clappers.

2) The current government is a joke, will not work and only serves its own purpose to stay in power so dissolve the house and ban all people remotely connected to the old regime in any way. I mean ban the entire government and its ministers for life never to be able to return to politics not just like a couple years. To remove a weed you have to bring out its roots.

How could you forget 3) A military coup.

[Samuian]

SOMEONE was shooting with real deadly weapons with intent to maim,

and terrify, if not kill outright.

Dispicable piece of shit for doing it too.

Edited October 8, 2008 by Samuian

[jdinasia]

Well I only see two ways to end this.

1) The government brutally and totally without a doubt, crush the PAD rebellion by all means necessary and regain control of the house. Round them up and put the entire crowd in jail. Just like in Burma or China to show who's the boss and the government is a strong one that won't take crap from plastic clappers.

2) The current government is a joke, will not work and only serves its own purpose to stay in power so dissolve the house and ban all people remotely connected to the old regime in any way. I mean ban the entire government and its ministers for life never to be able to return to politics not just like a couple years. To remove a weed you have to bring out its roots.

neither of which deals with the issues .... and both of which are doomed to fail

[Crushdepth]

And if your face isnt in the middle of a rioting mob that is even less likely to happen.

If you are trapped in the middle of a riot and get hurt that is unfortunate, but if you are there to fight then you can't complain if you die by the sword.

How do you get a rioting mob? Fire tear gas into a crowd.

[mdechgan]

How could you forget 3) A military coup.

Another one of those? Those don't work. We already had one and we are still stuck in the same situation since 2006. Also the foreign governments hate that and consider it to be a blow to democracy worldwide. But the tourists loved taking pictures with the tanks on Ratchadamnoen road though.

Edited October 8, 2008 by mdechgan