Police Fire Tear Gas At Protesters In Front Of Parliament

[sriracha john]

Sorry mate, but that wont work unless you take it to a US Court.

The US Courts are famous for accepting cases like "breaking in in a house, mutilate everybody, rape the females and when police comes to free the legal inhabitants of that house, sue the police for using excesive force".

The International Court will have a good laugh at the PAD if they try to present such a case and I would't be surprised if the International Court would even condom the PAD for using people as human shields to protect them.

The PAD is using illegal means for their protest (occupying the Government House) and that is reason enough to loose all credibility.

I have read yesterday a lot of foreign newspapers and they all paint black the PAD and their illegal actions.

Could you please post some of them as there a number of foreign newspaper articles posted from yesterday that DON'T report as you say.

btw...I don't think the International Court issues condoms...

btw...good little off-topic, anti-American bashing rant you got going there...

Edited October 9, 2008 by sriracha john

[clausewitz]

If it were not for the PAD Taksin would be bleeding this country dry.

When, oh when, are all you relative newbies going to understand that the major difference between Thaksin and the PAD leaders is simply who is going to continue the long established program of bleeding the country dry and how many people will be invited to the party? Thaksin's only sin to the PAD folks is that he kept too much of the spoils to himself and his immediate family and did not share. Worse, he was a relative outsider from the North who did not, as that southerner Prem did, ingratiate himself into the Bangkok club by paying his dues.

It goes deeper than that, in teh beginning thasin was welcomes into the elite of bangkok- but he made big mistakes by not kowtowing enough to their wishes in his last year or two. Thaksin was able to transform Issan into a powerful voting block which effectively meant the middle class and upper class in bangkok no longer had the controlling say in who rules. Yes, the mee barn, gardener and driver had more ploitical clout - in a sense - than their superiors, it just wasn't the way Thailand, according to the elite, should be. Issan people are uneductaed, dumb etc etc.. (that really is what PAD believes and says) and they cannot be allowed to vote against the wishes of their betters.

In the end though, Thaksin was outed not becuase of any corruption (those charges were trumped up by the AEC as appointed by the coup leaders, to give an aura of legality to the coup, after the fact) but because he sold his company to a Singapore company. And that irriitated the wild eyed nationalists - the ones who think thialand should go to war over a temple , - they also believe Thasin planned to sell Phuket to singapore.

[sriracha john]

The Somchai government's days are numbered

PM Somchai Wongsawat's refusal to step down following the police crackdown on the PAD demonstrators outside Parliament, only underscores the illegitimacy of his administration, which had pledged to bring reconciliation to the country. The resignation of Chavalit Yongchaiyudh as Deputy PM in charge of security affairs to show responsibility over the incident, is not enough. While his show of spirit is welcomed, there is nothing else to commend. Somchai cannot deny accountability for, let alone knowledge of, the police use of force which resulted in deaths and injuries to break up the PAD demonstration. He cannot justify use of force by claiming the demonstrators attempted to lay siege to Parliament. The PM called an urgent Cabinet meeting on Monday night - after PAD demonstrators were mobilised to seal off parliament building to prevent him from announcing the government's policy statement the following day. On Tuesday morning police, who claimed to be armed only with tear gas, were sent in to disperse the crowd to clear a path for him. The melee that ensued gave ample opportunity for deadly weapons to be used. In the aftermath of this bloody crackdown, numerous civil groups and respected figures stepped up the pressure on the government, calling for Somchai to stand down.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/091008_News/09Oct2008_news24.php

[coalminer]

Could you please post some of them as there a number of foreign newspaper articles posted from yesterday that DON'T report as you say.

Why would I take the time and the effort to copy them here and risk a copyright infringement?

You wouldn't believe anything of it anyway.

If you are really interested in the foreign newspapers, go look for yourself after opening your eyes to the obvious.

btw...I don't think the International Court issues condoms...

btw... English is not my primary language.

And even people whose primary language is English makes a lot of grammatical errors as can be seen on this ad other threads.

btw...Isn't there a written rule that posters should refrain from correcting members about grammatical errors?

btw...good little off-topic, anti-American bashing rant you got going there...

Off-Topic?

No, Just posting an example to conveying what I mean.

Anti-American bashing?

If you call "a farce" the fact where a American citizen murders his wife and her "lover", is chased by the police in a run-away car scene that makes most movies look like "snowwhite" and is declared NOT-GUILTY by the Courts, then I admit to be guilty as charged.

btw...every year, a good book is published by the USA about these "farces".

[jumnien]

Thai Airlines board of directors houses many Generals. Nuff said!

[sriracha john]

Bangkok Port workers set sympathy strike for PAD activists at noon Thursday

In a show of defiance against the government and to give moral support to the anti-government People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) in their ongoing fight against police, members of the Port Authority of Thailand (PAT) Labour Union will stop work at Bangkok Port starting from noon Thursday, Somkiat Rodcharoen, President of the PAT Labour Union said Tuesday.

SRT workers threaten nationwide rail strike if government uses violence

BANGKOK, Oct 8 (TNA) - In the wake of Tuesday's street violence and political turmoil, the State Railway of Thailand (SRT) Labour Union announced it would go out on strike nationwide if the government resorts to violence against People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) demonstrators.

SRT union president Riengsak Kaengkhan said that after a Wednesday meeting, members are set to stage a nationwide strike if the government uses force to disperse the demonstrators again.

Calling on the government to adopt peaceful means, it also condemned the forceful dispersal of PAD protesters at Parliament and the use of tear gas on Tuesday. The violent clashes left at least two people dead and some 443 others injured.

The SRT Labour Union also allowed one thousand labourers working at Bangkok's Makkasan Depot Maintenance Centre to walk off their jobs on a voluntary basis to join the PAD rally by taking leaves. This may cause a minor effect on non-essential management such as the delay of some maintenance tasks.

However, train services, including train free-of-charge on four main routes -- Chiang Mai, Ubon Ratchathani, Nong Kai and Sungai Kolok to the capital -- will run as usual, Mr. Riengsak reconfirmed.

[AlKing]

Sorry mate, but that wont work unless you take it to a US Court.

The US Courts are famous for accepting cases like "breaking in in a house, mutilate everybody, rape the females and when police comes to free the legal inhabitants of that house, sue the police for using excesive force".

The International Court will have a good laugh at the PAD if they try to present such a case and I would't be surprised if the International Court would even condom the PAD for using people as human shields to protect them.

The PAD is using illegal means for their protest (occupying the Government House) and that is reason enough to loose all credibility.

I have read yesterday a lot of foreign newspapers and they all paint black the PAD and their illegal actions.

Could you please post some of them as there a number of foreign newspaper articles posted from yesterday that DON'T report as you say.

btw...I don't think the International Court issues condoms...

btw...good little off-topic, anti-American bashing rant you got going there...

PAD is hiding behind women and children to avoid arrest warrant issued by Thai Court. Now the PAD is going to bypass the Thai legal system and approach International Court of Justice.

Didn’t Thaksin claim that he will not return to Thailand to face trial because he cannot get a fair ruling by Thai court of justice?

PAD have just confirm Thaksin statement, and again shot themselves in the foot.

[toybits]

Did you mean Hippocrates??

I agree it is the oath of Hippocrates. Socrates was a moralist.

[sriracha john]

Could you please post some of them as there a number of foreign newspaper articles posted from yesterday that DON'T report as you say.

Why would I take the time and the effort to copy them here and risk a copyright infringement?

Posting news is the entire basis for the News Clippings Forum

You wouldn't believe anything of it anyway.

Won't know that if you don't post any

If you are really interested in the foreign newspapers, go look for yourself after opening your eyes to the obvious.

I have... and have posted more than a few myself to what foreign newspapers have said...and they seem to contradict what your contention is.

btw...I don't think the International Court issues condoms...

btw... English is not my primary language.

And even people whose primary language is English makes a lot of grammatical errors as can be seen on this ad other threads.

I wasn't sure what you meant... condom is, afterall, a word. Misspellings I overlook.

btw...good little off-topic, anti-American bashing rant you got going there...

Off-Topic?

No, Just posting an example to conveying what I mean.

Anti-American bashing?

If you call "a farce" the fact where a American citizen murders his wife and her "lover", is chased by the police in a run-away car scene that makes most movies look like "snowwhite" and is declared NOT-GUILTY by the Courts, then I admit to be guilty as charged.

btw...every year, a good book is published by the USA about these "farces".

wonderful... post about it on unitedstatesofamericavisa.com/forum

[geriatrickid]

In yesterday's edition the Bangkok Post reported that, "Doctors at Chulalongkorn's Faculty of Medicine, led by Suthep Kolchanwit, said they would take a "social position" against the police by deciding not to treat officers wounded during the bloody crackdown on supporters of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD). They asked doctors at medical faculties at Thammasat, Khon Kaen, Chiang Mai, Ramathibodi, Siriraj, Srinakharinwirot and Prince of Songkla universities to follow suit and they had agreed, Dr Suthep said."

Putting aside the violation of professional ethics, this position now strongly suggests that medical reports as to the cause and extent of injuries sustained by rioters cannot be accepted at face value. If the people responsible for providing the data and information are biased, then in all likelihood, the information and data obtained from them will be tainted. Conclusions made about injuries offered by these people cannot be accepted as factual, because of the overt bias stated.

As an aside, I note that the Red Cross moved quickly to address the lapse in judgement and violation of duty by the implicated health professionals. Unfortunately, serious damage has been done to several hospitals' reputations. I anticipate stern emails and notes will be sent by the medical research organizations that fund some of these hospitals' programs. As well, it now damages all researchers' reputations even though they have not have individually allowed their political views to seep into the workplace. An absolute disgrace and the people that support such an action should be ashamed of themselves.

[sbk]

Racist and inflammatory posts have been deleted.

Lets keep this civil, on topic and adult, please

[toybits]

Occupying the government house to prevent legislators from working is not illegal? Didn't the Court issue arrest warrants for the PAD core leaders? Doesn't that mean anything?

This sums up the whole crap shoot rather well.

It is a war for control of Thailand, but PAD didn't fire the first shot,

no matter HOW many here try and say that. They are playing catch up

versus a hugely funded, amoral and avaricious foe of Machiavelian proportions.

[sriracha john]

In yesterday's edition the Bangkok Post reported that, "Doctors at Chulalongkorn's Faculty of Medicine, led by Suthep Kolchanwit, said they would take a "social position" against the police by deciding not to treat officers wounded during the bloody crackdown on supporters of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD). They asked doctors at medical faculties at Thammasat, Khon Kaen, Chiang Mai, Ramathibodi, Siriraj, Srinakharinwirot and Prince of Songkla universities to follow suit and they had agreed, Dr Suthep said."

Putting aside the violation of professional ethics, this position now strongly suggests that medical reports as to the cause and extent of injuries sustained by rioters cannot be accepted at face value. If the people responsible for providing the data and information are biased, then in all likelihood, the information and data obtained from them will be tainted. Conclusions made about injuries offered by these people cannot be accepted as factual, because of the overt bias stated.

As an aside, I note that the Red Cross moved quickly to address the lapse in judgement and violation of duty by the implicated health professionals. Unfortunately, serious damage has been done to several hospitals' reputations. I anticipate stern emails and notes will be sent by the medical research organizations that fund some of these hospitals' programs. As well, it now damages all researchers' reputations even though they have not have individually allowed their political views to seep into the workplace. An absolute disgrace and the people that support such an action should be ashamed of themselves.

That's been properly addressed here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2263963

As far as what has been published, that was the action of one doctor at one hospital...although there are many plurals used in your post.

To say it suggests misrepresentation by all doctors at all hospitals as well as the central coordinating center on injury reporting is a bit stretched.

Edit: Upon review, I see now the link supposedly reflects the actions of an unspecified number of other doctors, but there remains no definitive words of anyone other than Dr. Suthep.

Edited October 9, 2008 by sriracha john

[AlKing]

In yesterday's edition the Bangkok Post reported that, "Doctors at Chulalongkorn's Faculty of Medicine, led by Suthep Kolchanwit, said they would take a "social position" against the police by deciding not to treat officers wounded during the bloody crackdown on supporters of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD). They asked doctors at medical faculties at Thammasat, Khon Kaen, Chiang Mai, Ramathibodi, Siriraj, Srinakharinwirot and Prince of Songkla universities to follow suit and they had agreed, Dr Suthep said."

Putting aside the violation of professional ethics, this position now strongly suggests that medical reports as to the cause and extent of injuries sustained by rioters cannot be accepted at face value. If the people responsible for providing the data and information are biased, then in all likelihood, the information and data obtained from them will be tainted. Conclusions made about injuries offered by these people cannot be accepted as factual, because of the overt bias stated.

As an aside, I note that the Red Cross moved quickly to address the lapse in judgement and violation of duty by the implicated health professionals. Unfortunately, serious damage has been done to several hospitals' reputations. I anticipate stern emails and notes will be sent by the medical research organizations that fund some of these hospitals' programs. As well, it now damages all researchers' reputations even though they have not have individually allowed their political views to seep into the workplace. An absolute disgrace and the people that support such an action should be ashamed of themselves.

I could not have put it better.

I hope the doctors who act carelessly have their licenses removed (or at least suspense for a period of time). Same to the pilot who put politics infront of profession.

[Tolley]

The thing is that they are contributing to the further destabilisation of the country.

They are ignoring the rule of law and creating havoc.

What are they going to achieve by adopting this strategy?

There's no rule of law in this country, or Thaksin's nominee government wouldn't even be in place.

PAD is hoping to achieve restoration of the rule of law, a government answerable to the people, not criminal fugitives or feudal lords.

Take this example - Suwat Liptapanlop was banned from politics, yet he installed his comletely unqualified wife as a minister, when his wife was dismissed from the government after Samak's conviction, he replaced her with a brother in law. Samak claimed legitimacy until his last day, only to find out that he was cheating the country since February.

That's not the rule of law, that's a farce.

And it's not courts faults, btw, it's government's duty to follow the rule of law, not to subvert it as they are doing now.

I don't think you understand what i am saying here.

The tactics that PAD are using will not change anything for the better. Rather they will hasten the slippery slope back to a military style of government which is historically what has happened time afte rtime in Thailand.

As for the rule of law well there is some basic rule of law in Thailand which is enforced by the government like being able to convene parliament, being able to open airports and generally live and run your day to day life.

PAD is causing problems and disrupting these basic things which eventually cannot be tolerated.

[cmsally]

In yesterday's edition the Bangkok Post reported that, "Doctors at Chulalongkorn's Faculty of Medicine, led by Suthep Kolchanwit, said they would take a "social position" against the police by deciding not to treat officers wounded during the bloody crackdown on supporters of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD). They asked doctors at medical faculties at Thammasat, Khon Kaen, Chiang Mai, Ramathibodi, Siriraj, Srinakharinwirot and Prince of Songkla universities to follow suit and they had agreed, Dr Suthep said."

Putting aside the violation of professional ethics, this position now strongly suggests that medical reports as to the cause and extent of injuries sustained by rioters cannot be accepted at face value. If the people responsible for providing the data and information are biased, then in all likelihood, the information and data obtained from them will be tainted. Conclusions made about injuries offered by these people cannot be accepted as factual, because of the overt bias stated.

As an aside, I note that the Red Cross moved quickly to address the lapse in judgement and violation of duty by the implicated health professionals. Unfortunately, serious damage has been done to several hospitals' reputations. I anticipate stern emails and notes will be sent by the medical research organizations that fund some of these hospitals' programs. As well, it now damages all researchers' reputations even though they have not have individually allowed their political views to seep into the workplace. An absolute disgrace and the people that support such an action should be ashamed of themselves.

The medical profession must understand that they can't just make statements like these and then retract them. They should not even be thinking along those lines let alone voicing them. Yesterday I sent links to the articles referring to this incident to at least a dozen doctors I know as well as people I know working in medical research and medical schools. I sent the emails to personal email addresses of people I know, so they will be read. I am sure I am not the only one to do so. Such medical "professionals" deserve to be taught a lesson.

[jeffer]

Stress minimised at Dusit Zoo

Bangkok's Dusit Zoo made special arrangements to protect its 2,300 animals from being stressed out by the explosive noise and smoke from Tuesday's clashes in its neighbourhood between antigovernment protesters and police.

The zoo, located opposite the Parliament building, moved two noise sensitive lesser anteaters to Chon Buri's Khao Kheow Open Zoo, Zoological Park Organisation deputy chief Prayuth Navacharoen said yesterday. Kangaroos and wallabies in cages near the Parliament front road were also moved to a quieter corner of the zoo, he said.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/10/09...al_30085532.php

[cmsally]

Stress minimised at Dusit Zoo

Bangkok's Dusit Zoo made special arrangements to protect its 2,300 animals from being stressed out by the explosive noise and smoke from Tuesday's clashes in its neighbourhood between antigovernment protesters and police.

The zoo, located opposite the Parliament building, moved two noise sensitive lesser anteaters to Chon Buri's Khao Kheow Open Zoo, Zoological Park Organisation deputy chief Prayuth Navacharoen said yesterday. Kangaroos and wallabies in cages near the Parliament front road were also moved to a quieter corner of the zoo, he said.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/10/09...al_30085532.php

A better alternative would have been to release the animals and lock up all the humans in the area. Our 4 legged friends would probably do a better job of running the country.

[coalminer]

To say it suggests misrepresentation by all doctors at all hospitals as well as the central coordinating center on injury reporting is a bit stretched.

Calling all members of the PPP party "corrupt" is a bit stretched as well.

But if the PAD succeed in eliminating all members from the PPP from being LEGALLY ELECTED, they could maybe win an election and rewritethe constitution to free them and their leader from the charges which are pending on them. .

[Plus]

The tactics that PAD are using will not change anything for the better. Rather they will hasten the slippery slope back to a military style of government which is historically what has happened time afte rtime in Thailand.

Hmm, lets look at it this way - the police and the politicians are two most corrupt entities in Thai society. Whatever changes PAD is proposing, they can only be for the better.

Military government is not welcome by PAD, Sondhi had lots of conditions for approving another coup, and even that can't be worse than the current government.

Incidentally, last year's Surayud/junta rule was like a golden age comparing to the mess this government has created. The SET is in 400s, about a 30% loss, the violence, the strikes, the unrelenting political turmoil, and, most importantly, no sign of hope unless the government steps down.

Junta was opposed, there were protests, but nothing like the current schism between two sides, and there was always clear exit strategy - the elections. There's nothing now. Dead end.

[toybits]

I saw the video of the Pick-up truck that ran over the policemen. There were more than just ONE policeman on the ground. The pickup truck - after ramming the cops down like in Grand Theft Auto, backed up and ran over an obviously dazed and injured policeman. Now, I would call that attempted murder and premeditated at that...

-The rabble effects the removal of the chosen PM then the government asks them to disperse

Wasn't that down to the court, or perhaps the PPP-MPs who first encouraged him to stand again, but then failed to show-up to vote for him ? Was the master-pupeteer pulling their strings again ? It certainly wasn't the PAD.

-Police use limited force to disperse them

Count the casualties, perhaps 400 PAD-supporters hospitalised, versus perhaps 10 police injured. What does that tell you, about which side used more force, or came more-prepared for violence ?

It would at least be nice, that people who still continue (after much evidence to the contrary) to say these are peacefull protest, to maybe get their heads out of where ever they have sticked it in ? Gosh what a clever debater !

There are many photo's of PAD followers beating police, apparently even ran cars over them.

Cars plural ? The incident yesterday was one car only. It was initially claimed to have injured a dozen police, later reports said just one was injured, perhaps it may eventually turn out to be just an innocent traffic-accident. Who knows ?

[coalminer]

http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNew...ory_287679.html

Oct 9, 2008

Protest leaders to surrender?

BANGKOK - SEVEN leaders of escalating anti-government protests in Thailand will surrender to police on outstanding arrest warrants if the Appeals Court drops charges of treason on Thursday, their lawyer said. The Criminal Court on August 27 issued arrest warrants for nine leaders of the so-called People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), a day after their supporters seized the prime minister's offices in Bangkok.

So far they have arrested two leaders, Chamlong Srimuang and Chaiwat Sinsuwong. The other seven called on supporters to march to parliament on Tuesday, a rally that erupted into deadly clashes with police.

'If the court today revokes the treason charge, I will seek bail for Chamlong Srimuang and Chaiwat Sinsuwong, while the other seven will contact police and surrender to fight the remaining charges,' PAD lawyer Suwat Apaipak told reporters.

As well as the charge of insurrection - which carries the maximum sentence of death or life in prison - the nine are also facing charges of illegal assembly.

The court will on Thursday announce the verdict on their appeals against the warrants. -- AFP

[coalminer]

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=44179

THAILAND: Another Bout of Military Rule?

Analysis by Larry Jagan

BANGKOK, Oct 8 (IPS) - The battle for Bangkok has entered a new and violent phase, the logical end of which can only be another bout of military rule.

So far, the army chiefs have been insisting that the government handle the situation and that soldiers have no place in politics. But many fear that if there is more violence -- of the type seen on Tuesday -- the army chief, Anupong Paojinda, may feel compelled to move in.

Three years after the foes of the former premier, Thaksin Shinawatra, took to the streets to oust him and his government, Thailand’s political crisis is no closer to being solved. As country’s political deadlock deepens, analysts and commentators fear that only a military coup can resolve the impasse.

Soldiers are now deployed on the streets of Bangkok to help quell anti-government protests as police failed to disperse anti-government demonstrators who have vowed to stay on the streets until the government resigns.

"We will stay here until we win," said Surachai, one of the demonstrators gathered here since the start of the protest some ten weeks ago.

"The battle has entered its final phase," Sondhi Limthongkul, a media mogul and leader of the protest movement, that calls itself the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD), told his supporters camped out in the grounds of Government House. "We are on the cusp of victory,’’ he added.

But the Thai press had a more sober assessment of the violent clashes between riot police and PAD demonstrators which left one woman dead and more than four hundred injured -- some seriously. ‘’Bloodbath in Bangkok", screamed the headlines on the front page of the English daily, ‘The Bangkok Post’.

In a separate incident, a man was killed when a car bomb exploded outside the party headquarters of the Chart Thai party which is part of the ruling coalition led by the Peoples Power Party, that replaced Thaksin’s Thai Rak Thai party disbanded by the Constitutional Court early last year.

For weeks the authorities tried to appease or ignore the thousands of demonstrators who have laid siege to Government House. But when the protestors tried to block access to the Parliament, before new Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat was to make his maiden speech, outlining his party’s policies, the security forces were ordered to clear the legislature complex.

A fierce battle ensued as hundreds of riot police clashed with the demonstrators as they tried to clear a path for the legislators. The security forces fired volleys of teargas and lobbed stun grenades into the crowd, which reacted by hurling stones and firecrackers back at the police.

Several thousand protestors then regrouped and marched to the nearby police headquarters chanting anti-government slogans, while others fought with the police. "It was like a battlefield," one of the protestors, Nualnoi, told IPS. "The police attacked unarmed civilians without warning -- it was lucky it did not get out of hand," she added.

The PAD has been relatively quiet in the past weeks, as Somchai’s government seemed to seize the initiative with talk of dialogue and compromise. There was a series of exchanges between the government and PAD leaders, according to senior sources in the PPP, often through intermediaries.

A bipartisan constitutional drafting committee was set up to help defuse political tensions. Somchai reportedly agreed to consider the PAD's call for political change through possible amendments to the 2007 charter which were drawn up under a previous military government and ratified by a referendum more than a year ago.

The PPP government has been considering reviewing the constitution to make it easier for Thaksin to return to political life. He and more than a hundred other senior members of the Thai Rak Thai party were banned from politics for five years when the Constitutional Court disbarred the party last year.

PAD leaders believe that Thai democracy has been undermined by the billionaire Thaksin and his allies. The TRT easily won the last three elections, but through massive electoral fraud and vote-buying, allege anti-government protestors. The PAD is proposing what it calls "new politics" -- under which most legislators would be appointed rather than elected.

Ranged against the supporters of Thaksin -- who is charged with using his massive mandate from the rural poor to promote his business empire -- are grandees drawn from the military, aristocracy, officialdom and the urban middle-class. For legitimacy, the PAD and Limthongkul claim to have the support of Thailand’s venerated monarchy, mainly through a shrine to Queen Sirikit erected on the grounds of Government House.

"Dialogue doesn’t really suit the PAD, as it deprives them of their power," said Prof. Thitinan Pongsudhirak, political scientist at the Chulalongkorn University. "This latest turn of events was intended to galvanise the movement and were meant to deliberately provoke the authorities."

The PAD has upped the ante and is going for broke, according to other political analysts. The arrest of two of the PAD leaders in the past few days was the signal for a renewed campaign to topple the government, they say.

Chaiwat Sinsuwong and Chamlong Srimuang were detained on treason charges for their roles in the PAD-led raids on government buildings in August. Chaiwat was arrested last week after a private meeting with opposition leader Kraisak Choohaven at his Bangkok residence.

Chamlong was detained after he left the safety of the government compound surround by protestors to vote in the Bangkok governor’s elections on Sunday. There are many who believe that Chamlong orchestrated his own arrest to fire up PAD protestors whose enthusiasm for the battle has waned in recent weeks.

Thai society has never been so divided. Although the fault lines appear to be geographic -- the South and Bangkok against the North and North-East of the country -- the main rift is between those who oppose Thaksin and those who support him.

PAD supporters accuse Prime Minister Somchai of being a political proxy for Thaksin, his brother-in-law, who is currently seeking political asylum in Britain.

Similar street violence, last month, triggered a two-week state of emergency in Bangkok, but the army refused to enforce it and the measure was withdrawn after it badly damaged the tourist trade and the Thai economy as a whole.

This fresh outbreak of violence has raised fears that the military may be moving towards another coup. "While it cannot be ruled out, a coup would seem to be a remote option at the moment," Thitinan told IPS. But many of Thaksin’s supporters believe this indeed is the PAD’s real game plan.

[jayjayjayjay]

Incidentally, last year's Surayud/junta rule was like a golden age comparing to the mess this government has created. The SET is in 400s, about a 30% loss, the violence, the strikes, the unrelenting political turmoil, and, most importantly, no sign of hope unless the government steps down.

What rot! The existing government and the Samak gov that preceeded it has worked with the economy inside the world stage. Are you going to be so ridiculous as to claim Thailand (as it may have ignited in 1997) is responsible for Leahman Brothers/AIG's fall. Maybe somewhere there you can accuse Thaksin of creating Credit Swaps!

Polictical turmoil has be created by who.......... PAD......... that vermently oppose anyone upcountry having a say in politics. Strikes, yes, SRT, lead by PAD core membership! Airports closed in the South... by PAD or should we say, Democrate party members, canvasers etc. Why were Khon Kaen, Udon Thai, Ubon's, Chiangmai's, Lampang's airports not closed!!!!!!!!! Get a grip on reality boy! The gov does not have to step down because you say so or PAD says so..... deal with it!

[mdechgan]

The tactics that PAD are using will not change anything for the better. Rather they will hasten the slippery slope back to a military style of government which is historically what has happened time afte rtime in Thailand.

Hmm, lets look at it this way - the police and the politicians are two most corrupt entities in Thai society. Whatever changes PAD is proposing, they can only be for the better.

Military government is not welcome by PAD, Sondhi had lots of conditions for approving another coup, and even that can't be worse than the current government.

Incidentally, last year's Surayud/junta rule was like a golden age comparing to the mess this government has created. The SET is in 400s, about a 30% loss, the violence, the strikes, the unrelenting political turmoil, and, most importantly, no sign of hope unless the government steps down.

Junta was opposed, there were protests, but nothing like the current schism between two sides, and there was always clear exit strategy - the elections. There's nothing now. Dead end.

Those few months after the 2006 coup were the most stable and competent government Thailand has had for awhile. No violence, strikes, or crackdowns. The courts made their verdict in disbanding the TRT. There was hope for a new constitution. Finally, the junta and Surayud turned over the government to/for an elected one. Then all hel_l broke loose.

The only opposition was against military rule (which wan't an issue because the junta eventually allowed elections after the constitution was approved) and the western observers hated them that saying it was a blow to democracy. Why don't these people understand that one can't compare Thailand to the EU or U.S.A.?

[mdechgan]

Incidentally, last year's Surayud/junta rule was like a golden age comparing to the mess this government has created. The SET is in 400s, about a 30% loss, the violence, the strikes, the unrelenting political turmoil, and, most importantly, no sign of hope unless the government steps down.

What rot! The existing government and the Samak gov that preceeded it has worked with the economy inside the world stage. Are you going to be so ridiculous as to claim Thailand (as it may have ignited in 1997) is responsible for Leahman Brothers/AIG's fall. Maybe somewhere there you can accuse Thaksin of creating Credit Swaps!

Polictical turmoil has be created by who.......... PAD......... that vermently oppose anyone upcountry having a say in politics. Strikes, yes, SRT, lead by PAD core membership! Airports closed in the South... by PAD or should we say, Democrate party members, canvasers etc. Why were Khon Kaen, Udon Thai, Ubon's, Chiangmai's, Lampang's airports not closed!!!!!!!!! Get a grip on reality boy! The gov does not have to step down because you say so or PAD says so..... deal with it!

I don't think plus blames the current financial crisis on the new government. But the junta government was really quiet and stable and most of the people were content at the time.

Edited October 9, 2008 by mdechgan

[Plus]

Incidentally, last year's Surayud/junta rule was like a golden age comparing to the mess this government has created. The SET is in 400s, about a 30% loss, the violence, the strikes, the unrelenting political turmoil, and, most importantly, no sign of hope unless the government steps down.

What rot! The existing government and the Samak gov that preceeded it has worked with the economy inside the world stage. Are you going to be so ridiculous as to claim Thailand (as it may have ignited in 1997) is responsible for Leahman Brothers/AIG's fall. Maybe somewhere there you can accuse Thaksin of creating Credit Swaps!

Polictical turmoil has be created by who.......... PAD......... that vermently oppose anyone upcountry having a say in politics. Strikes, yes, SRT, lead by PAD core membership! Airports closed in the South... by PAD or should we say, Democrate party members, canvasers etc. Why were Khon Kaen, Udon Thai, Ubon's, Chiangmai's, Lampang's airports not closed!!!!!!!!! Get a grip on reality boy! The gov does not have to step down because you say so or PAD says so..... deal with it!

Political turmoil started when PPP announced they would amend the constitution to specifically benefit Thaksin and their own party. They have been warned to go on that path, the warnings came from all sides, including PAD itself.

PAD is nothing but a natural reaction to an arrogant and self-serving government. Actually it's not simply self-serving, it serves Thaksin, which makes it even worse.

[Splatter]

I'm sorry, but everyone getting hit by tear gas and smoke grenades and then cries about it is an idiot. In every European country, police will use much stronger force and tear gas, much sooner, to get rid of protests like these. These protests have been going on for months and the government has done nothing until now, but this will go on for years if nothing is done.

But people don't typically lose feet and legs in these euro crowd control scenarios.

Regardless of the merits or lack of merits for the protesters, the crowd control measures

have been a royal flying cock-up and either a 3rd party has been at play in a VERY malevolent way,

or the police and their masters of the moment have MUCH to be accountable for.

rainman,

Politely I would suggest you may be uniformed as to what happened in the afternoon at Parliament House.

I can comment because I was there standing next to an AP photographer for most of the time,

not taking sides.

Around 5.00pm the police started firing tear gas at the crowd at the side of Parliament House.

We were nowehere near the frontline.

No one heard any bullhorn warnings.

The police did not follow the guidelines on riot control

- which you can read on Page 2 of today's Bangkok Post.

Within 15 minutes many (I'd suggest, most) of the peaceful PAD supporters,and I,

had moved back to where the ambulances were stationed

by the temporary entrance to the Dusit Zoo.

The police behind us opened up to allow a safe exit route. Sensible.

The riot police that came from the side of Parliament House shot tear gas, to our front,

moved up the road push the crowds back with tear gas fired to our front

and they cleared the area. Makes sense again.

However, the riot police then ALSO shot tear gas over the top of us to our rear.

This blocked our route away from the trouble,

and also affected some of the ambulance crews.

Not so sensible.

People who had moved away from the Parliament were still being affected,

yet they thought they were in a safe area.

I thought it was a safe area.

The AP photographer who has been in Jakarta riots thought it was safe.

The ambulance crews thought they were in a safe area.

Ambulance crews are not idiots.

My interpetation is that the police forces around Parliament did not behave effectively -

particularly if their aim was to control and contain a situation, stopping further escalation.

It may be poor training, it may have been adrenaline, it may be lack of experience.

Who knows? Or rather, I am being polite again.

Further....

After the riot police cleared the roads at the side of Parliament House

they could have easily have held the area,

using follow up units to form police lines and block off side roads.

They did not.

This was probably as most of the police WERE NOT WEARING GAS MASKS

so they were also affected by the tear gas remaining in the area.

The riot police with gas masks dispersed as did those without gas masks.

This left the area free for some demonstraters to move back into the area.

It may be reasonable for some to objectively label these at situationally challenged.

And then the same procedure happened twice more.

Even though the police could have secured the area the first time round.

That seems very strange to me.

It doesn't strike me as being sensible policing, either in its strategy or its execution.

******

Why was I there? Because I am getting sick of being an armchair observer,

relying on my personal assumptions that are irrelevant to Thailand

and reading second hand news.

[Plus]

There is no denying that local political turmoil only exacerbated the impact of the global crisis.

Actually, political risk was top of the list of concerns when this government took charge. They've been bloody told not start it again, they didn't listen.

[mdechgan]

I'm sorry, but everyone getting hit by tear gas and smoke grenades and then cries about it is an idiot. In every European country, police will use much stronger force and tear gas, much sooner, to get rid of protests like these. These protests have been going on for months and the government has done nothing until now, but this will go on for years if nothing is done.

But people don't typically lose feet and legs in these euro crowd control scenarios.

Regardless of the merits or lack of merits for the protesters, the crowd control measures

have been a royal flying cock-up and either a 3rd party has been at play in a VERY malevolent way,

or the police and their masters of the moment have MUCH to be accountable for.

rainman,

Politely I would suggest you may be uniformed as to what happened in the afternoon at Parliament House.

I can comment because I was there standing next to an AP photographer for most of the time,

not taking sides.

Around 5.00pm the police started firing tear gas at the crowd at the side of Parliament House.

We were nowehere near the frontline.

No one heard any bullhorn warnings.

The police did not follow the guidelines on riot control

- which you can read on Page 2 of today's Bangkok Post.

Within 15 minutes many (I'd suggest, most) of the peaceful PAD supporters,and I,

had moved back to where the ambulances were stationed

by the temporary entrance to the Dusit Zoo.

The police behind us opened up to allow a safe exit route. Sensible.

The riot police that came from the side of Parliament House shot tear gas, to our front,

moved up the road push the crowds back with tear gas fired to our front

and they cleared the area. Makes sense again.

However, the riot police then ALSO shot tear gas over the top of us to our rear.

This blocked our route away from the trouble,

and also affected some of the ambulance crews.

Not so sensible.

People who had moved away from the Parliament were still being affected,

yet they thought they were in a safe area.

I thought it was a safe area.

The AP photographer who has been in Jakarta riots thought it was safe.

The ambulance crews thought they were in a safe area.

Ambulance crews are not idiots.

My interpetation is that the police forces around Parliament did not behave effectively -

particularly if their aim was to control and contain a situation, stopping further escalation.

It may be poor training, it may have been adrenaline, it may be lack of experience.

Who knows? Or rather, I am being polite again.

Further....

After the riot police cleared the roads at the side of Parliament House

they could have easily have held the area,

using follow up units to form police lines and block off side roads.

They did not.

This was probably as most of the police WERE NOT WEARING GAS MASKS

so they were also affected by the tear gas remaining in the area.

The riot police with gas masks dispersed as did those without gas masks.

This left the area free for some demonstraters to move back into the area.

It may be reasonable for some to objectively label these at situationally challenged.

And then the same procedure happened twice more.

Even though the police could have secured the area the first time round.

That seems very strange to me.

It doesn't strike me as being sensible policing, either in its strategy or its execution.

******

Why was I there? Because I am getting sick of being an armchair observer,

relying on my personal assumptions that are irrelevant to Thailand

and reading second hand news.

I heard most of the police officers were from different stations and some from different provinces like Nakorn-Pathom. I guess different commanders had different ideas and tactics.

I don't quite know what the goal was. To clear parliament or to clear the entire PAD crowd out.

If clearing the building there was a systematic way of doing it and holding it. But clearing the entire crowd without an exit strategy? Other than bringin in a hundred buses and arresting everyone there wasn't anywhere else the PAd could go