Police Fire Tear Gas At Protesters In Front Of Parliament

[Splatter]

Fair play to the police here...

I was on the Ratchaweti Road by the Dusit Zoo, and they did provide an exit out if you walked away. But the tear gas over to our rear messed this up for a while. We didn't really need a bus.

I heard that those IN FRONT of Parliament House would have had to have left by going towards the Royal Plaza / Throne Hall - I couldn't see that area when the trouble started, but around lunchtime that exit route was possible.

The suggestion that the different forces were not coordinated seems to make a great deal of sense.

[Splatter]

Does anyone have any data on how many arrests were made?

[jdinasia]

You really make me laugh.

First off i never said that PAD was a political party.

WHat they should be doing is organising themselves to win the next election.

You have to be a political party to contest an election

Secondly re vote buying what do think happens in the US elections campaigns albeit a more sophisticated type of vote buying with vested interests and key lobby groups distributing

money to candidates and parties.

They don't donate money without expecting some sort of return.

This is not the US and you are talking about the reverse of 'vote buying' You are talking about constituents or groups paying candidates to run. I invite you to look into campaign donations etc .. but this isn't the US. OK, where I am is not the US, maybe where you are ......

To my mind PAD are not offering any alternative to the regime that exists now and they don't have a replacment because they are not a political party so what are they really going to achieve?

The elimination of a corrupt regime and a change in the system but it is nice to see you reverse yourself on the political party thing

Not much IMHO because they are not really offering anything. In fact you could argue that they are contributing to a further destablisation of the country.

Unfortunately the problems of Thailand are so deeply rooted in their institutions and culture that it really would take a seismic shift in the education, political institutions, the way business is done etc

The PAD is the seismic event, we hope!

It ain't gonna happen in our life time that is for sure.

Possibly YOUR lifetime

The thing is that they are contributing to the further destabilisation of the country.

They are ignoring the rule of law and creating havoc.

What are they going to achieve by adopting this strategy?

All counterproductive to my way of thinking and only really a recipe for a repeat of history lessons in Thailand.

In the end they will go backwards because a military dictatorship is where thailand is heading yet again.

I take it from this reply that what you mean is "oooooops I was wrong on all counts"

Personally I do not hold Democracy as the be all and end all of what is good in government. I would easily accept a coup that was responsive to the needs of ALL of the country over a corrupt 'elected' government that represented only Thaksin.

The tyranny of the minority OR the majority cannot be allowed to continue. There just is no way to condone the Thaksinist policy of damaging the country by buying off the poor with non-sustainable and often bogus populist programs that take them backwards in net wealth and ability to grow. If the PAD were a political party instead of a political movement I'd be just as opposed to their tactics. However, they are not attempting to take control, instead they are just fighting the most obvious battle.

Sadly, the people that SHOULD be stepping into the power vacuum, the Democrats, are not working hard enough to address the issues in the North East. We cannot blame the PAD for the Demos not stepping up.

We also cannot continue to throw around claims like 'elitist' when referring to the PAD as they obviously have support from all sectors including Isaan. The 'elite' that are really the issue is the incredibly strong fuedal (in some people's words) or political machine (ala Tammany Hall or Chicago of the 1930's or Russia today) that buy votes and exert pressure on the kanman in rural Thailand. They distribute money and favors and control information via rhetoric and pressure to keep the existing power base for a select few.

We can't continue to cry "Generals" when all sides have them ....

We can't cry Democracy when it doesn't exist. (Democracy has checks and balances to prevent abuse and it protects minority voices from the majority rule) "We won so we can do whatever we want" is NOT Democracy.

[hammered]

Well the court have thrown out the rather outlandish treason charges. A positive development.

[sriracha john]

I saw the video of the Pick-up truck that ran over the policemen. There were more than just ONE policeman on the ground. The pickup truck - after ramming the cops down like in Grand Theft Auto, backed up and ran over an obviously dazed and injured policeman. Now, I would call that attempted murder and premeditated at that...

The incident yesterday was one car only. It was initially claimed to have injured a dozen police, later reports said just one was injured, perhaps it may eventually turn out to be just an innocent traffic-accident. Who knows?

Could you please share the video with us with a link?

Has the person responsible been positively identified as a member of PAD?

Are there any reports of any other policemen, besides the lone policeman cited, as being injured due to this incident?

[Plus]

There's still enough left for life imprisonment.

[clausewitz]

Well the court have thrown out the rather outlandish treason charges. A positive development.

You don't mind that PAD influenced the court after its solcitors stated that the leaders would submit to due process provided the Appeals court dismissed the serious charges?

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=131273

PAD lawyer Suwat Apaisak said seven PAD core leaders would surrender to police if the court drops charges of insurrection against them.

[sriracha john]

To say it suggests misrepresentation by all doctors at all hospitals as well as the central coordinating center on injury reporting is a bit stretched.

Calling all members of the PPP party "corrupt" is a bit stretched as well.

I wasn't aware that I had posted that. Could you please me help out by pointing out where I did?

[h90]

Incidentally, last year's Surayud/junta rule was like a golden age comparing to the mess this government has created. The SET is in 400s, about a 30% loss, the violence, the strikes, the unrelenting political turmoil, and, most importantly, no sign of hope unless the government steps down.

What rot! The existing government and the Samak gov that preceeded it has worked with the economy inside the world stage. Are you going to be so ridiculous as to claim Thailand (as it may have ignited in 1997) is responsible for Leahman Brothers/AIG's fall. Maybe somewhere there you can accuse Thaksin of creating Credit Swaps!

Polictical turmoil has be created by who.......... PAD......... that vermently oppose anyone upcountry having a say in politics. Strikes, yes, SRT, lead by PAD core membership! Airports closed in the South... by PAD or should we say, Democrate party members, canvasers etc. Why were Khon Kaen, Udon Thai, Ubon's, Chiangmai's, Lampang's airports not closed!!!!!!!!! Get a grip on reality boy! The gov does not have to step down because you say so or PAD says so..... deal with it!

The turmoil was created by the move to change the constitution.

Surayud government was the best I have seen since Chuan.

[Thai at Heart]

Incidentally, last year's Surayud/junta rule was like a golden age comparing to the mess this government has created. The SET is in 400s, about a 30% loss, the violence, the strikes, the unrelenting political turmoil, and, most importantly, no sign of hope unless the government steps down.

What rot! The existing government and the Samak gov that preceeded it has worked with the economy inside the world stage. Are you going to be so ridiculous as to claim Thailand (as it may have ignited in 1997) is responsible for Leahman Brothers/AIG's fall. Maybe somewhere there you can accuse Thaksin of creating Credit Swaps!

Polictical turmoil has be created by who.......... PAD......... that vermently oppose anyone upcountry having a say in politics. Strikes, yes, SRT, lead by PAD core membership! Airports closed in the South... by PAD or should we say, Democrate party members, canvasers etc. Why were Khon Kaen, Udon Thai, Ubon's, Chiangmai's, Lampang's airports not closed!!!!!!!!! Get a grip on reality boy! The gov does not have to step down because you say so or PAD says so..... deal with it!

The turmoil was created by the move to change the constitution.

Surayud government was the best I have seen since Chuan.

Did you vote for them?

[hammered]

Well the court have thrown out the rather outlandish treason charges. A positive development.

You don't mind that PAD influenced the court after its solcitors stated that the leaders would submit to due process provided the Appeals court dismissed the serious charges?

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=131273

PAD lawyer Suwat Apaisak said seven PAD core leaders would surrender to police if the court drops charges of insurrection against them.

The courts arent going to listen to the PAD leaders. In fact saying that is probably contempt of court, which is a serious charge

The court made a decision because the the charges were "groundless" on the counts of treason, conspiracy for inciting treason, and disobeying a dispersal order when ordered by law enforcement authorities, according to reports. It sounds liek a sensible decision and one that will be welcomed in the highly charged polical atmosphere.

Other charges remain.

[cymruambyth1]

Khun Surayud let us play through his 5-ball on the golf course this morning (the one he has a house on).

Very pleasant and charming chap as it goes. He apologised for any inconvenience. I will vote for him next time he is up for election for sure!

[clausewitz]

The turmoil was created by the move to change the constitution.

Surayud government was the best I have seen since Chuan.

How old were you when Chuan was in power?

[sriracha john]

Thai court waters down charges on protest leaders

BANGKOK, Oct 9 (Reuters) - Thailand's Court of Appeals threw out arrest warrants for treason against nine leaders of an anti-government street campaign on Thursday but issued new warrants for less severe offences. The court said the treason charges against the nine leaders, two of whom are currently in police custody, were groundless, but said the nine might have committed other offences relating to illegal public gatherings.

[Artisi]

Incidentally, last year's Surayud/junta rule was like a golden age comparing to the mess this government has created. The SET is in 400s, about a 30% loss, the violence, the strikes, the unrelenting political turmoil, and, most importantly, no sign of hope unless the government steps down.

What rot! The existing government and the Samak gov that preceeded it has worked with the economy inside the world stage. Are you going to be so ridiculous as to claim Thailand (as it may have ignited in 1997) is responsible for Leahman Brothers/AIG's fall. Maybe somewhere there you can accuse Thaksin of creating Credit Swaps!

Polictical turmoil has be created by who.......... PAD......... that vermently oppose anyone upcountry having a say in politics. Strikes, yes, SRT, lead by PAD core membership! Airports closed in the South... by PAD or should we say, Democrate party members, canvasers etc. Why were Khon Kaen, Udon Thai, Ubon's, Chiangmai's, Lampang's airports not closed!!!!!!!!! Get a grip on reality boy! The gov does not have to step down because you say so or PAD says so..... deal with it!

The turmoil was created by the move to change the constitution.

Surayud government was the best I have seen since Chuan.

Agreed - but unfortunately you will never convince the non-thinking trolls who for some no good reason seem to enjoy lies and BS to get their kicks.

[catmac]

Catmac, there were replies to this already.

There were EIGHT people who lost their limbs. If one of them turned to be an amputee already, what's the big deal? Blood on him doesn't look real to you? Staged by creative PAD directors?

Now that the dust has settled a little, let's look at the facts.

1. It is now admitted by PAD that the demonstrator who "had his leg blown off by a tear-gas grenade" never had that leg anyway. He was an amputee when PAD put him in the line of fire.

2. See post141 on page 6 - "When asked about the cause of a male protester, who has lost his leg during the riot, Pol Maj Gen Amnuay said the man could have stepped on barbed wire around the Parliament", maybe the police were telling the truth all along. In the mayhem following the first firing of teargas, this poor devil walking on only one leg and crutches got tripped or fell or otherwise got himself entangled in the razor wire that PAD had set up.

3. The blood on him is certainly real, but from the superficial razor-wire cuts, NOT from the loss of a limb!

4. There then followed a series of obvious ficticious reports in the Nation, TOC and ASTV allegedly from hospitals and doctors who claimed that the leg had been blown away by "powerful explosives". How much of this was the result of the natural confusion at the scene, panic at the hospital or the deliberate disinformation of the PAD propaganda machine, I don't know.

5. Following the massive publicity gained by this bogus amputation, PAD's propaganda team then went into overdrive, literally spreading their pool of amputees around (just check that photo of sunrise70's, what the H-ll were all those amputees gathered at PAD's compound for?) anywhere that a confrontation took place. Mock blood and clever make-up flowed freely, and gulible media and TV posters lapped it up, screaming hysterical abuse at the police and the Government!

You see it all fits in so easily with the lies that have spewed out of Sondhi's mouth for years. If you believe a word that PAD says, you'll believe anything.

[younghusband]

Her Majesty donates Bt200,000 to Police Hospital

Her Majesty the Queen Thursday donated Bt200,000 to the Police Hospital for the expense of medical treatment for injured policemen.

Earlier, Her Majesty gave Bt100,000 to Vachira Hospital and Bt200,000 to Ramathibodi Hospitals for the expense of medical treatment for injured workers.

The Nation

[Plus]

There were EIGHT people who lost their limbs, Catmac.

Don't force me to search trhough this thread for pictures of other men who lost their limbs.

[Samuian]

Didn’t Thaksin claim that he will not return to Thailand to face trial because he cannot get a fair ruling by Thai court of justice?

PAD have just confirm Thaksin statement, and again shot themselves in the foot.

How much does your agency receive from the treasure chest this man has wrestled out from the hands of the thai-people?

you moved yourself with all the sympathizers on morally dead grounds!

Edited October 9, 2008 by Samuian

[Golf]

Right now peaceful negotiation is next to impossible. All of the systems are not functional and it seems we, Thai people, are at the dead end. I don't want to go to any details, but would like to say this, "We must change, otherwise we cannot survive the collapse of Thailand as a nation." I still want to see Thailand on the map. I want to tell my son about the great country I and he were born. I want to tell my son about countless unnamed heroes who stood up and fight the tyranny governments. In the end, Thai people will stand up and say, "NO MORE!"

[mdechgan]

Now that the dust has settled a little, let's look at the facts.

1. It is now admitted by PAD that the demonstrator who "had his leg blown off by a tear-gas grenade" never had that leg anyway. He was an amputee when PAD put him in the line of fire.

2. See post141 on page 6 - "When asked about the cause of a male protester, who has lost his leg during the riot, Pol Maj Gen Amnuay said the man could have stepped on barbed wire around the Parliament", maybe the police were telling the truth all along. In the mayhem following the first firing of teargas, this poor devil walking on only one leg and crutches got tripped or fell or otherwise got himself entangled in the razor wire that PAD had set up.

3. The blood on him is certainly real, but from the superficial razor-wire cuts, NOT from the loss of a limb!

4. There then followed a series of obvious ficticious reports in the Nation, TOC and ASTV allegedly from hospitals and doctors who claimed that the leg had been blown away by "powerful explosives". How much of this was the result of the natural confusion at the scene, panic at the hospital or the deliberate disinformation of the PAD propaganda machine, I don't know.

5. Following the massive publicity gained by this bogus amputation, PAD's propaganda team then went into overdrive, literally spreading their pool of amputees around (just check that photo of sunrise70's, what the H-ll were all those amputees gathered at PAD's compound for?) anywhere that a confrontation took place. Mock blood and clever make-up flowed freely, and gulible media and TV posters lapped it up, screaming hysterical abuse at the police and the Government!

You see it all fits in so easily with the lies that have spewed out of Sondhi's mouth for years. If you believe a word that PAD says, you'll believe anything.

Is this post serious?

Edited October 9, 2008 by mdechgan

[jdinasia]

Right now peaceful negotiation is next to impossible. All of the systems are not functional and it seems we, Thai people, are at the dead end. I don't want to go to any details, but would like to say this, "We must change, otherwise we cannot survive the collapse of Thailand as a nation." I still want to see Thailand on the map. I want to tell my son about the great country I and he were born. I want to tell my son about countless unnamed heroes who stood up and fight the tyranny governments. In the end, Thai people will stand up and say, "NO MORE!"

Nice post!

Again, I frankly don't care about the system of government. I care about the quality of government!

[jayjayjayjay]

Incidentally, last year's Surayud/junta rule was like a golden age comparing to the mess this government has created. The SET is in 400s, about a 30% loss, the violence, the strikes, the unrelenting political turmoil, and, most importantly, no sign of hope unless the government steps down.

What rot! The existing government and the Samak gov that preceeded it has worked with the economy inside the world stage. Are you going to be so ridiculous as to claim Thailand (as it may have ignited in 1997) is responsible for Leahman Brothers/AIG's fall. Maybe somewhere there you can accuse Thaksin of creating Credit Swaps!

Polictical turmoil has be created by who.......... PAD......... that vermently oppose anyone upcountry having a say in politics. Strikes, yes, SRT, lead by PAD core membership! Airports closed in the South... by PAD or should we say, Democrate party members, canvasers etc. Why were Khon Kaen, Udon Thai, Ubon's, Chiangmai's, Lampang's airports not closed!!!!!!!!! Get a grip on reality boy! The gov does not have to step down because you say so or PAD says so..... deal with it!

Political turmoil started when PPP announced they would amend the constitution to specifically benefit Thaksin and their own party. They have been warned to go on that path, the warnings came from all sides, including PAD itself.

PAD is nothing but a natural reaction to an arrogant and self-serving government. Actually it's not simply self-serving, it serves Thaksin, which makes it even worse.

Neither you, the Army, the oppostion have the right to initiate ammedment of the charter. The government do. Deal with it. PAD is the proverbial bully in the sandpit throwing sand in everyone elses face. Again, deal with it! The natural reaction of the middle class maybe so, well, I have never once said PAD do not have the right to protest. They DO NOT HAVE the right to occupy government house, unless they form a political party, run for government, have MP's enough to form government and/or form with a coalition to form government. So, they need to get there sorry little asses out of government house pronto.

The GOVERNMENT serves the PEOPLE whom voted it IN. If Thaksin is one of those PEOPLE, well they should serve HIM. Again, deal with it!

[sriracha john]

Catmac, there were replies to this already.

There were EIGHT people who lost their limbs. If one of them turned to be an amputee already, what's the big deal? Blood on him doesn't look real to you? Staged by creative PAD directors?

Now that the dust has settled a little, let's look at the facts.

1. It is now admitted by PAD that the demonstrator who "had his leg blown off by a tear-gas grenade" never had that leg anyway. He was an amputee when PAD put him in the line of fire.

2. See post141 on page 6 - "When asked about the cause of a male protester, who has lost his leg during the riot, Pol Maj Gen Amnuay said the man could have stepped on barbed wire around the Parliament", maybe the police were telling the truth all along. In the mayhem following the first firing of teargas, this poor devil walking on only one leg and crutches got tripped or fell or otherwise got himself entangled in the razor wire that PAD had set up.

3. The blood on him is certainly real, but from the superficial razor-wire cuts, NOT from the loss of a limb!

4. There then followed a series of obvious ficticious reports in the Nation, TOC and ASTV allegedly from hospitals and doctors who claimed that the leg had been blown away by "powerful explosives". How much of this was the result of the natural confusion at the scene, panic at the hospital or the deliberate disinformation of the PAD propaganda machine, I don't know.

5. Following the massive publicity gained by this bogus amputation, PAD's propaganda team then went into overdrive, literally spreading their pool of amputees around (just check that photo of sunrise70's, what the H-ll were all those amputees gathered at PAD's compound for?) anywhere that a confrontation took place. Mock blood and clever make-up flowed freely, and gulible media and TV posters lapped it up, screaming hysterical abuse at the police and the Government!

You see it all fits in so easily with the lies that have spewed out of Sondhi's mouth for years. If you believe a word that PAD says, you'll believe anything.

Sorry to ruin all of your "FACT" points... but...

1. The amputee is missing more of his leg after getting hit with an unidentified explosive.

2. His wounds are entirely NOT consistent with any sort of barbed wire trauma.

3. The blood and wounds in these photos are NOT superficial in any manner and indicative of new, additional massive trauma on his already partially amputated leg.

4. What are the other "fictitious" reports besides this incident are you referring to? As for this incident, it is entirely plausible

that this new massive injury occurred from an "explosive" device. Particularly when coupled with the metal shards that doctors found inside the wound.

5. What is the date of the photos that were shown of the group of amputees? What is their location?

*DISCLAIMER: The link posted below containing the photos, that I've described above, are quite graphic...too graphic, even for me, to post. Viewer discretion is advised.*

http://www.oknation.net/blog/sigree/2008/10/08/entry-4

[catmac]

In yesterday's edition the Bangkok Post reported that, "Doctors at Chulalongkorn's Faculty of Medicine, led by Suthep Kolchanwit, said they would take a "social position" against the police by deciding not to treat officers wounded during the bloody crackdown on supporters of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD). They asked doctors at medical faculties at Thammasat, Khon Kaen, Chiang Mai, Ramathibodi, Siriraj, Srinakharinwirot and Prince of Songkla universities to follow suit and they had agreed, Dr Suthep said."

Putting aside the violation of professional ethics, this position now strongly suggests that medical reports as to the cause and extent of injuries sustained by rioters cannot be accepted at face value. If the people responsible for providing the data and information are biased, then in all likelihood, the information and data obtained from them will be tainted. Conclusions made about injuries offered by these people cannot be accepted as factual, because of the overt bias stated.

As an aside, I note that the Red Cross moved quickly to address the lapse in judgement and violation of duty by the implicated health professionals. Unfortunately, serious damage has been done to several hospitals' reputations. I anticipate stern emails and notes will be sent by the medical research organizations that fund some of these hospitals' programs. As well, it now damages all researchers' reputations even though they have not have individually allowed their political views to seep into the workplace. An absolute disgrace and the people that support such an action should be ashamed of themselves.

The medical profession must understand that they can't just make statements like these and then retract them. They should not even be thinking along those lines let alone voicing them. Yesterday I sent links to the articles referring to this incident to at least a dozen doctors I know as well as people I know working in medical research and medical schools. I sent the emails to personal email addresses of people I know, so they will be read. I am sure I am not the only one to do so. Such medical "professionals" deserve to be taught a lesson.

Quite right, cmsally, I have also sent the info to as many people I know involved in the International Red Cross movement (who fund the hospital involved). As the views of Dr Suthep are in absolute opposition to those of the Red Cross (established originally to aid medically all those injured in War from whichever side without fear or favour) I would not be satisfied until his services are dispensed with, he can go and preach his political bias at any other hospital that will have him. The man is a disgrace to his profession.

[Tolley]

Again I say that the net effect of the PAD movement and the way it is has organised itself is that it will lead to another round of military rule in Thailand.

If this was indeed the aim of PAD i would say well fair enough but PAD purports to want a more democratic Thailand.

A military dictatorship will put that much further away.

PADs tactics are counterproductive to its aims and objectives.

[Artisi]

Right now peaceful negotiation is next to impossible. All of the systems are not functional and it seems we, Thai people, are at the dead end. I don't want to go to any details, but would like to say this, "We must change, otherwise we cannot survive the collapse of Thailand as a nation." I still want to see Thailand on the map. I want to tell my son about the great country I and he were born. I want to tell my son about countless unnamed heroes who stood up and fight the tyranny governments. In the end, Thai people will stand up and say, "NO MORE!"

Nice post!

Again, I frankly don't care about the system of government. I care about the quality of government!

I just hope that everyone reads and understands what you have just said, because at the end of the day isn't this what it's all about. Quality, truthful and open government. However, there will be some who have difficulty in understanding this concept and will go on beating up their small minded rants about all and sundry which seems to have little to do with the problem

[AlKing]

Right now peaceful negotiation is next to impossible. All of the systems are not functional and it seems we, Thai people, are at the dead end. I don't want to go to any details, but would like to say this, "We must change, otherwise we cannot survive the collapse of Thailand as a nation." I still want to see Thailand on the map. I want to tell my son about the great country I and he were born. I want to tell my son about countless unnamed heroes who stood up and fight the tyranny mop. In the end, Thai people will stand up and say, "NO MORE TO PAD!"

PS. Please do not sue me on copyright.

Edited October 9, 2008 by AlKing

[toybits]

Actually, I saw the video clip on Thai TV (not sure if NBT, Modernine or TPBS).

Anyway, The Nation (Newspaper) dated 8 October 2008 has a series of photos on page 1B clearly showing at least 4 cops (others not in view).

The Nation also reported approx. 10 policemen were run over by that pickup truck.. see quotation below.

The violence apparently came from both the police and protesters, with most of the injuries caused by the police's use of tear gas while a number of policemen were also injured as angry protesters used hard objects to stab them. One drove a truck over police, injuring 10 of them.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/morenews/i...sec=2&col=0

Blue 4-door Toyota Pick up truck had license plate ว_ 1968 (looks like Bkk plate - but not sure).

I have been wondering why nothing has been done about this...

Could you please share the video with us with a link?

Has the person responsible been positively identified as a member of PAD?

Are there any reports of any other policemen, besides the lone policeman cited, as being injured due to this incident?

Edited October 9, 2008 by toybits

[jdinasia]

Again I say that the net effect of the PAD movement and the way it is has organised itself is that it will lead to another round of military rule in Thailand.

If this was indeed the aim of PAD i would say well fair enough but PAD purports to want a more democratic Thailand.

A military dictatorship will put that much further away.

PADs tactics are counterproductive to its aims and objectives.

How so? So far we have had 2 or 3 illegitimate "democratically elected" governments or attempt at them recently ... with no democracy present ... The last Junta moved us closer to democracy, but the Thaksinistas screwed that up again ....