Trapped In Thailand

[Old Croc]

I found my self broke, alone, and in deep trouble in a foreign country in the early 70's. South Africa (Joburg) at that time wasn't a good place for a naive kid who had thought he was invincible. I was immature and ignorant of the pitfalls and problems of travel/living in a place like that. I had planned to work there but jobs weren't available. I won't go into details of my time there.

I'm not a brainless person (can produce documents to prove that ), but I had placed myself in a position of great personal danger because of my immaturity and bravado. The boy I was, eventually returned home a much wiser and more careful man. (except in dealings with my 3 ex's, but that's a different story )

My rambling point is: People come in all shapes and personalities. It's not necessarily a cranial shortfall that results in circumstances overwhealming an individual in a foreign land. And it's not great self advertising to smuggly condemn people who take a chance and fail, instead of always playing it safe. I am now one of those people who plan and play it safe, but still encourage others who want to shoot for the moon. Usually the brave become the really rich on this planet rather than the careful accumulators. The experience of travel, and learning different cultures, is enrichment by itself.

I still have nightmares about my time in SA, but appreciate the experiences I had there.

However, having said that, I don't have an enormous amount of sympathy for old buggers who go to Thailand with little money nor income, planning only to drink and whore themselves to death.

[G54]

Broke but not trapped, I am sure as a very last resort most countries will provide a One-way ticket home to its citizen. Now Home, still broke, NOW what??

Sign on the Dole!!!

Often in life circumstances do change and when they change for the worse that can become a downward spiral. At first it seems a small problem and many people stick their head in the sand and ignore the problem hoping they will go away. Before they realise it, they are in the sh*t and then it is often too late to claw your way out.

Same sort of thing happens to too many people over mortgage debt and they lose their homes.

Maturity and experience often teaches us to tackle these problems before they get too serious.

So, anyone trapped here can be trapped because of circumstances beyond their control or because of their own failure to act in time to resolve a problem. For the latter, it is their own fault and I have a lot less sympathy for them. For the former, I have sympathy - been there, had that happen to me.

For those who criticise, maybe they have never known real hardship??

[bendix]

It's not necessarily a cranial shortfall that results in circumstances overwhealming an individual in a foreign land. And it's not great self advertising to smuggly condemn people who take a chance and fail, instead of always playing it safe. I am now one of those people who plan and play it safe, but still encourage others who want to shoot for the moon. Usually the brave become the really rich on this planet rather than the careful accumulators. The experience of travel, and learning different cultures, is enrichment by itself.

I still have nightmares about my time in SA, but appreciate the experiences I had there.

However, having said that, I don't have an enormous amount of sympathy for old buggers who go to Thailand with little money nor income, planning only to drink and whore themselves to death.

I don't think anyone is condemning people who shot for the moon based on solid foundations, Old Croc. Noone can condemn a guy who has worked hard to build a nest egg (for example) which gives him 120,000 per month in Thailand for an early retirement, and now finds the financial turmoil means his nest egg is depleted and he's only getting 60,000 per month. But a person like that isn't a loser or trapped - he has deferred his pleasure to build up his resources to sustain downturns and difficulties and he can tighten his belt and ride out the rollercoaster.

HOWEVER, I reserve the right to pour scorn on 'the buggers who go to Thailand with little or no income, planning only to drink and whore themselves to death' with no savings, no visible means of support, and no fall-back plan. That is grossly irresponsible and grossly self-indulgent.

As another poster has said, I almost envy their inability to worry about the future. I wish I could be like many of the guys I see around who have no savings, no income and are just existing.

But I can't. I want to make sure than when I retire I can pay my way, I can sleep at night, and I will never end up on a Thaivisa video clip, being filmed begging for a few baht to get home.

[meom]

There will always be people who like to mock the less fortunate, but if the truth were known most of these people are not 'happy campers' themselves for one reason or another.

"Most men lead lives of quiet desperation......"

Quote by Thoreau right?

In clinical psychology it’s known as 'learned helplessness'.

“The phenomenon of learned helplessness was discovered through psychological experiments in 1967 by Martin Seligman and Steve Maier. A group of harnessed dogs was given painful electric shocks, which they could end by pressing a lever. Another group received shocks of identical intensity and duration without a means to stop them. The dogs who could stop the pain recovered from the experience quickly, but those who could not learned that they were helpless and exhibited symptoms similar to chronic clinical depression: when they were put in a shuttle-box apparatus in which they could escape electric shocks by jumping over a low partition, most of the dogs just lay down passively and whined rather than trying to escape the shocks.”

Personally I'd rather be broke in Thailand than Iceland

[AmeriThai]

I am now one of those people who plan and play it safe, but still encourage others who want to shoot for the moon.

Good post Old Croc. Nothing wrong with encouraging others to shoot for the moon. The important thing is to think and carefully plan ahead for those moon landings so one reduces the risk of it ending up as a crash and burn.

Some people say you need to set aside an emergency fund and not touch it. I agree. Others say the economy can change you income. Yep, that's true too. And other also say a medical problem could pop up and drain your reserves. True, and that's why it's important to have good medical insurance, so it doesn't drain all your financial reserves. All of those are the kinds of things a person needs to take into account and have a backup plan to avoid problems, problems that are often preventable.

[TopDogger]

HOWEVER, I reserve the right to pour scorn on 'the buggers who go to Thailand with little or no income, planning only to drink and whore themselves to death' with no savings, no visible means of support, and no fall-back plan. That is grossly irresponsible and grossly self-indulgent.

Do they sit on ThaiVisa all day coz they have nothing better to do aswell?

[lifeisrandom]

most men are not sharp enough to realize that it is their own actions and decisions which have landed them where they are and not "fate" or "bad luck"

[Master Chief]

Some people in this world just never end to have financial problem, no matter how much they earn.

Have met several of these chaps here in Thailand, they come to me for help, I give them a job that pays well at least 180k to 250k per month and they still lack funds after returning to Thailand.

Only weeks after return they call me for more work, explaining that they had to many old debts to pay.

Later I find out that they have party up all the money, because they can now so easily get more, not even paying off old debts?

I say, they have no planning skills at all, and they will be like this until the day they die.

Asking these chaps what they plan for their future when they are not able to work hard labor anymore, what then? They reply "then I die for sure"

[harrry]

At the time I got into trouble here nearly 40 years ago I had a fully paid up house in the blue mountains rented out and a considerable amount of government securities. I had also left a Power of Attorney with a Lawyer where I lived.

When I suddenly needed just a little more for the increased airfare a week before I was due to leave I telephoned at then considerable expense my lawyer. He told me to write him my needs so he got them a week later. I had asked him to liquidate funds so I had a bit more than the airfare and send it by TT. I got the amount I had asked for a week later less the TT charges less the lawyers charges. So not enough for the fare. I had to make a quick visa run. Then I wrote to him asking for more to be urgently TTd to me so I could get a ticket.

No reply a month later on telephoning I was told he was on holiday for six weeks so the same problem arose.

I hardly think I was unprepared but it did teach me never ever to trust a lawyer.

[benjamat]

I am one of those farangs that has worked his ass off for a long time and built up financial security. I made sacrifices and passed on the wine, women & song when I was in my 20's, which in hindsight I shouldn't have because I missed out on a lot of fun. On the other hand, one can't eat happy memories can he?

Technically, I shouldn't worry, but I do. It must be hel_l on earth for those that have to live with that worry. The grinding unrelenting fear of not knowing how bills will be paid. It's why I won't ever mock a person that's down.

There will always be some men and women that are decent and kind hearted that get taken for everything they have, right down to the emergency fund. They are not bad people. Surely, they merit a bit of understanding and compassion rather than ridicule and scorn?

Yes, for me its all about the worry. I have enough funds and pensions to live comfortably in Thailand now but I am terrified that in 20 years I will still be alive and not have a pot to p--s in. So I just visit regularly and save save save.

Hope I dont die soon.

[Gary A]

HOWEVER, I reserve the right to pour scorn on 'the buggers who go to Thailand with little or no income, planning only to drink and whore themselves to death' with no savings, no visible means of support, and no fall-back plan. That is grossly irresponsible and grossly self-indulgent.

Do they sit on ThaiVisa all day coz they have nothing better to do aswell?

The old farts who have worked all their lives and had a plan for retirement are entitled to sit here or do whatever pleases them all day and every day. As for myself, I go to bed when I want and get up when I don't feel like sleeping anymore. We paid our dues and we are enjoying the benefits. Eat your heart out!

[yabaaaa]

At the time I got into trouble here nearly 40 years ago I had a fully paid up house in the blue mountains rented out and a considerable amount of government securities. I had also left a Power of Attorney with a Lawyer where I lived.

When I suddenly needed just a little more for the increased airfare a week before I was due to leave I telephoned at then considerable expense my lawyer. He told me to write him my needs so he got them a week later. I had asked him to liquidate funds so I had a bit more than the airfare and send it by TT. I got the amount I had asked for a week later less the TT charges less the lawyers charges. So not enough for the fare. I had to make a quick visa run. Then I wrote to him asking for more to be urgently TTd to me so I could get a ticket.

No reply a month later on telephoning I was told he was on holiday for six weeks so the same problem arose.

I hardly think I was unprepared but it did teach me never ever to trust a lawyer.

1st lesson is the only person you can really trust is yourself.

[whatsoever]

Gary is spot on. PPP (pi.. poor planing) is hard to feel sorry for. These individuals are in a position due to a decision they made in the past. We can always shift blame to another individual or event, but we as mature, self supporting individuals need to accept that we made the decision which led to our present perdicument. Keep a rat hole account which will bale you out of Dodge.

Couldnt put it better myself. It's not a question of mocking them; it's a question of not feeling sympathy for mature adults failing to be responsible for their own poor decision-making and planning. If people decided to leave the relative security of their western country to come here (for whatever reason they like) without adequate financial back-up or the werewithal to earn a living here, well I'm sorry but I feel no sympathy at all.

I think a more evolved individual would place sympathy on any particular situation according to circumstance, However, I must say that if the likes of your good self were to find yourself absoulutley potless then i would celebrate with glee. If their was any universal justice then you would have your much vaunted wealth withethe Bank of Iceland

[Scott]

I think the difference is anyone can get into a bit of a mess. I've seen it a lot especially with the 20 somethings, who lack life-experience. The key thing is people who are willing to work will make it. They buckle down, find something--almost anything--get themselves sorted out and move on. I do have some empathy for these folks

The 35+ who work a month and drink a week, I don't. They think life is unfair because their home country won't mail them a dole check over here!

They also lack any sympathy for those less fortunate than they are.

[Gravelrash]

I think those that are comfortable and like living here are too quick to condemn others that want the same thing although struggling. Some will succeed and some will fail, it is their life and their choice. Years ago I would have been written off as a "what are you doing here?" but things have now turned around and life is very comfortable. Live your own (imperfect) lives and leave others to theirs.

Is the quality of a persons life equated to their bank account? Guess most religious philosophies got it wrong then.

[bendix]

However, I must say that if the likes of your good self were to find yourself absoulutley potless then i would celebrate with glee.

Would you? Would you whatsoever? It's nice of you to care.

Sadly, you'll be disappointed. It won't happen.

[JimsKnight]

Gary is spot on. PPP (pi.. poor planing) is hard to feel sorry for. These individuals are in a position due to a decision they made in the past. We can always shift blame to another individual or event, but we as mature, self supporting individuals need to accept that we made the decision which led to our present perdicument. Keep a rat hole account which will bale you out of Dodge.

Couldnt put it better myself. It's not a question of mocking them; it's a question of not feeling sympathy for mature adults failing to be responsible for their own poor decision-making and planning. If people decided to leave the relative security of their western country to come here (for whatever reason they like) without adequate financial back-up or the werewithal to earn a living here, well I'm sorry but I feel no sympathy at all.

I think a more evolved individual would place sympathy on any particular situation according to circumstance, However, I must say that if the likes of your good self were to find yourself absoulutley potless then i would celebrate with glee. If their was any universal justice then you would have your much vaunted wealth withethe Bank of Iceland

Like me!

Roll on Friday!

[Bangyai]

thailand attracts certain undesireable types , its just fact. well monied responsible individuals as a group dont hang out in thailand.

On the contrary, there are well monied folks...it's just that certain individuals can't get access to them. They are able to distinguish between big talkers and real deal.

they hiding in thai caves or what?

monied people can party anywhere they dont need to do it in some strange asian country known only for partyig.

Well, its goodbye Somchai then. Gone but not forgotten. We'll all miss his razor like wit. Truly a giant among men, an inspiration to his peers. R.I.P.

[khunandy]

I have a difficult time feeling sorry for anyone who fails to plan ahead. I too was forced to return to my home country when I went broke. The difference was that I had a little fund that I refused to touch. There was enough in that fund for an air ticket and enough to rent an apartment for a couple of months until I was able to get setup and start a new job.

Yep, agree with Gary on this one, as hard as it is, always have a safety buffer. When I was younger it was the price of a ticket home and when I started to scratch at it I knew it was time to go home and earn earn some bucks and stop waiting for the miracle to happen. Dam-n rich widows never turn up at the right time

[Travel2003]

I have a difficult time feeling sorry for anyone who fails to plan ahead.

I agree.

I believe we all have been told over the years (by our parents, friends, experts, etc) to ALWAYS have some funs available for a rainy day.

This rainy day is not a business opportunity in Thailand.

When someone ends up using their last funds, and then claim to be stuck/trapped somewhere, I have zero sympathy.

And, as one other member here mentioned, most Embassys issue one way tickets to their countrymen, and the state will claim the money back later.

[khunandy]

I reckon that it is common for expats to go into "sell Thailand" overdrive. On the one hand they are telling themselves and their home country friends that you can "life on 20 quid a day) but this is rarely the case when they actually come here.

From my experiences and some bust arse people I have met , they have never budgeted 20 quid a day but have fallen into the illusion of "mai pen rai"..probably the only Thai charactaristic they will adopt.

They turn into balloon hunters down the sois...any birthday party will provide at least one drink. There is a certain amount of sympathy from me, but only one beers worth.

[Travel2003]

I reckon that it is common for expats to go into "sell Thailand" overdrive. On the one hand they are telling themselves and their home country friends that you can "life on 20 quid a day) but this is rarely the case when they actually come here.

From my experiences and some bust arse people I have met , they have never budgeted 20 quid a day but have fallen into the illusion of "mai pen rai"..probably the only Thai charactaristic they will adopt.

They turn into balloon hunters down the sois...any birthday party will provide at least one drink. There is a certain amount of sympathy from me, but only one beers worth.

It reminds me of this old guy I saw, down in Pattaya, sitting outside a 7/11.

Looked like he was in his late 60s.

Skinny and dirty.

Makes me wonder, not only how they economically survive here, but how they manage to keep their visas (stays).

[Huey]

I ended up broke and messed up here at one time as well. I was in my 20's and I was penniless in pattaya. Lived off a couple good friends for a month or 2 till I finally got a job selling time share. Within a month I made enough to pay back my friends, get a decent apartment and was back on my feet. Learned allot in those times, learned about how resourceful I could be, learned who my friends where, and learned a respect for sales and persistence. Don't ever wanna go back to those days, but I'm glad I had them.

[khunandy]

Congratulations on pulling yourself out of the mire Huey. It adds weight to the bar girl arguement of exactly how low you will go to earn a buck in desperate times.

Whoring and Time Share selling must rank up there with the best (sleaziest) of them all..but seriously, my hat is off to you, as it is to all the bar girls I have known who ply their trade due to hard economic times

[zorro1]

.

Edited October 9, 2008 by zorro1

[Huey]

Congratulations on pulling yourself out of the mire Huey. It adds weight to the bar girl arguement of exactly how low you will go to earn a buck in desperate times.

Whoring and Time Share selling must rank up there with the best (sleaziest) of them all..but seriously, my hat is off to you, as it is to all the bar girls I have known who ply their trade due to hard economic times

Hey look, if you think selling a time share is the same thing as taking 500baht to swallow a man's load then your sense of ethics (or more aptly lack there of) goes too low for me to even bother debating the difference with you.

[CroBiker]

in these parts timeshare is called crimeshare.

http://crimeshare.com/

Well known British developer based in Rawai received notable attention.

[Gary A]

I'm sorry but I view selling time shares as being lower than selling sex. The people who bought sex at least enjoyed it and actually spent very little money. The ladies actually provided a service.

[way2muchcoffee]

Salesmen are the 'whores of industry and business'.

Edited October 10, 2008 by way2muchcoffee

[harrry]

Salesmen are the 'whores of industry and business'.

And saleswomen are even worse.