Passports

[sua yai]

Couldn't help noticing that the thread about the Thai girl being refused a passport was closed down.

I don't blame the admin as the topic went way off course.

I just looked at my passport and the notes caution me that it remains the property of HM Govt.

It allows me British nationality, but does NOT entitle me to a passport and can be withdrawn at any time.

It's a while since I've seen a Thai passport, but I would hazzard a guess that the laws are the same.

[the scouser]

A UK passport does technically remain the property of HMG but if you are a British citizen there are only limited circumstances in which the passport office can refuse to either issue you with a document or withdraw it as to do so impedes your freedom of movement.

Off the top of my head I can think of 2 instances when the above may apply:-

1. When you've been repatriated at government expense and not repaid the money; and

2. Where it is a condition of court bail that you surrender your passport.

Scouse.

[Axel]

You are the holder or your passport, not the owner, which in any case is the issuing authority, i.e. country.

Theoretically, your own government can deny to issue a passport to you. In, let's say more democratic countries, such cases are written into the law books and every citizen has the right to fight in court, if necessary.

The Scouser mentioned two cases, 1) you owe money for a previous repatriation.

In this case, your passport is not denied, but withheld until the government received re-payment of public funds.

2) is more interesting. Your own country's authorities, like a court of justice, can order you to surrender your passport. A foreign country cannot. This comes to the point that you cannot surrender something that does not belong to you. It means if you surrender e.g. in LoS your p/port, your embassy has a legal right to ask for return. Don't expect them to act swiftly, nobody wants a political row, especially not if you run afoul of a local law.

But think of the recent case of a Belgian, who had left his passport while on bail and escaped. In a case like this you have no record of a criminal offence, as no judgement was given, although there might be an indictment. So your embassy has no reason whatsoever to deny issuing a p/port to you. (Different story how you leave a country without having entry-chops in the p/port.)

Finally, a passport does not prove your nationality to your own country.

Example, some years ago, one of my German staff run into problems and had to prove his German nationality before being issued a new passport. The authorities demanded birth certificate etc, which at that time, was very difficult as he was born to an English mother and German father in a small town in Eastern Europe where, during WWII, all documents had been destroyed and the German town became part of Poland.

Another case, Japanese p/port denied by a Japanese embassy with the argumentation, 'since you married a foreigner, we need proof that you are still holding the Japanese nationality'. Back to the family book in Tokyo....

Just a few long words to a very complicated subject.

[sua yai]

Axel,

That's interesting.

A number of years ago, I was arrested here and faced serious charges. They were all dropped.

The court - setting bail - told me not to try and leave the country.

The Uk Embassy and myself were amazed that the court allowed me to retain possession of my passport. And without a "cannot leave the country" stamp.

The Embassy were telling me to skip bail. I didn't and everything is now OK.

Your comments on the legal side of this has made me think.