Cambodia Threatens War With Thailand Within 24 Hours

[bravingbangkok]

Is it just coincidence that Cinemax are now showing the movie 'Intrusion Cambodia'?

Cheers, Rick

I just saw that today hahahah what a crap movie !

[george]

Cambodia claims Thailand violated airspace

PHNOM PENH: -- Thailand violated Cambodian airspace hours before a border skirmish erupted on Wednesday, Cambodian officials said.

Cambodian and Thai soldiers on Wednesday exchanged gunfire in a disputed zone near the ancient Preah Vihear temple on the Thai-Cambodian border called Eagle Field, or Eagle Terrace, 300 kilometres north of the Cambodian capital, which is an important strategic point for access to Preah Vihear.

"The Thai injuries were worse, but there were casualties on both sides," the director-general of Cambodia's Preah Vihear authority, which oversees the site, said by telephone.

"The Thai fighter jet came 8:50 am and again at 10.07 am to disturb our airspace. Cambodian soldiers wanted to fight then, but they were placated for a while.

"I do not know why fighting happened at 2.15 until 3.30 pm because I was not there," the head of Cambodia's Preah Vihear authority, Hang Soth, said by telephone from a meeting in Phnom Penh.

He said there were casualties on both sides, but that the Thai side had borne the brunt of duel M-79, B-40 and AK-47 exchanges.

Cambodian authorities said all civilians had fled the area and it was now regarded by both sides as a conflict zone.

The Wednesday shoot-out at Eagle Terrage is important to the ongoing dispute over the Preah Vihear temple because whoever controls that area controls access to the temple, which is sacred to both sides.

A similar clash at the same site on October 3 left two Thai soldiers and one Cambodian wounded.

-- DPA 2008-10-15

[george]

Thai gamblers flee back from Cambodia

More than 300 Thai gamblers in casinos in Cambodia yesterday scrurried back to Thailand through a border checkpoint in Surin's Karb Cherng district following a gunfight between Thai and Cambodian troops in nieghbouring Si Sa Ket province.

More than 300 shops around the Chong Jom border checkpoint have closed for security concern although the checkpoint has not been ordered closed by Thai authorities, said chief customs official Phisai Wongsiri.

-- The Nation 2008-10-15

[toptuan]

When the gamblers flee, you know it's getting serious!

[WAERTH]

Dutch teletekst reports that according to the Cambodian army 2 Cambodian soldiers were killed and 10 Thai soldiers taken prisoner by the Cambodians.

[WAERTH]

Also a picture on a Dutch newspaper website of Thai pow's guarded by Cambodian soldiers.

http://www.ad.nl/buitenland/2696591/Tempel...rgevechten.html

[sriracha john]

they got P.O.W.'s now...

Fighting stops, two Cambodian soldiers killed, 5 Thais injured

BANGKOK, Oct 15 (TNA) - Two Cambodians were killed, five Thai soldiers were wounded and 10 Thai troops were captured after a battle along a disputed stretch of border near Preah Vihear temple, Cambodian Foreign Minister Hor Namhong said.

Thailand delivered an aide memoire to Cambodia's charge d'affairs on Wednesday to protest the firefight.

Cambodian authorities reportedly said two others were wounded in a brief exchange with Thai troops Wednesday afternoon.

The Associated Press quoted Hor Namhong as saying the 10 Thai soldiers surrendered, were being

well-treated, and would be returned to Thailand.

Thai army spokesman Col. Sansern Kaewkamnerd said Cambodia opened fire first. The incident resulted in two Cambodian soldiers killed and five Thais injured, in the fighting over a disputed area of land near the Thai-Cambodian border.

“Now we are trying to contain the scale of the fight and prevent it from escalating,” said Col. Sansern.

Thai Foreign Minister Sompong Amornvivat revealed that Cambodian Foreign Minister Hor Namhong talked to him by telephone on Wednesday morning. Both sides expressed regret over the border row and confirmed to adopt a peaceful means to end the dispute.

Thailand and Cambodia will hold bilateral talks to end the border row, said the Thai foreign minister, adding that he would seek approval of an operational framework under the Thai-Cambodian Joint Commission on

Demarcation for Land Boundary (JBC) from the parliament.

Department of Information director-general and Foreign Ministry spokesman Tharit Charungvat said he was informed by the Thai military that small arms and rocket-propelled grenades were used in the clash between Thai and Cambodian soldiers. Mr. Tharit said that Thai soldiers confirmed that they would not begin any shooting, but they are prepared to counterattack to defend themselves.

He said prompt evacuation depends on the situation. There are about 1,000 Thai nationals in Phnom Penh and about 500 Thais in Siem Reap. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is cooperating with Thai Airways to prepare for possible evacuation, he said, adding three flights can be arranged in a day.

[bangkokrick]

they got P.O.W.'s now...

Fighting stops, two Cambodian soldiers killed, 5 Thais injured

BANGKOK, Oct 15 (TNA) - Two Cambodians were killed, five Thai soldiers were wounded and 10 Thai troops were captured after a battle along a disputed stretch of border near Preah Vihear temple, Cambodian Foreign Minister Hor Namhong said.

Thailand delivered an aide memoire to Cambodia's charge d'affairs on Wednesday to protest the firefight.

Cambodian authorities reportedly said two others were wounded in a brief exchange with Thai troops Wednesday afternoon.

The Associated Press quoted Hor Namhong as saying the 10 Thai soldiers surrendered, were being

well-treated, and would be returned to Thailand.

Thai army spokesman Col. Sansern Kaewkamnerd said Cambodia opened fire first. The incident resulted in two Cambodian soldiers killed and five Thais injured, in the fighting over a disputed area of land near the Thai-Cambodian border.

“Now we are trying to contain the scale of the fight and prevent it from escalating,” said Col. Sansern.

Thai Foreign Minister Sompong Amornvivat revealed that Cambodian Foreign Minister Hor Namhong talked to him by telephone on Wednesday morning. Both sides expressed regret over the border row and confirmed to adopt a peaceful means to end the dispute.

Thailand and Cambodia will hold bilateral talks to end the border row, said the Thai foreign minister, adding that he would seek approval of an operational framework under the Thai-Cambodian Joint Commission on

Demarcation for Land Boundary (JBC) from the parliament.

Department of Information director-general and Foreign Ministry spokesman Tharit Charungvat said he was informed by the Thai military that small arms and rocket-propelled grenades were used in the clash between Thai and Cambodian soldiers. Mr. Tharit said that Thai soldiers confirmed that they would not begin any shooting, but they are prepared to counterattack to defend themselves.

He said prompt evacuation depends on the situation. There are about 1,000 Thai nationals in Phnom Penh and about 500 Thais in Siem Reap. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is cooperating with Thai Airways to prepare for possible evacuation, he said, adding three flights can be arranged in a day.

Two dead and thats two too many.

Cheers, Rick

[Felt 35]

In modern times, Prasat Preah Vihear was rediscovered by the outside world and became subject of an emotional dispute between Thailand and the newly independent Cambodia.

In 1904, Siam and the French colonial authorities ruling Cambodia formed a joint commission to demarcate their mutual border. In the vicinity of the temple, the group was tasked by the two governments to work under the principle that the border would follow the watershed line of the Dângrêk mountain range, which places Preah Vihear on the Thailand side. In 1907, after survey work, French officers drew up a map to show the border’s precise location. The resulting map, which was sent to Siamese authorities, showed Preah Vihear as being on the Cambodian side.

In 1954, Thai forces occupied the temple following the withdrawal of French troops from Cambodia. Cambodia protested and in 1959 asked the International Court of Justice to rule that the temple lay in Cambodian territory. The case became a volatile political issue in both countries. Diplomatic relations were severed, and threats of force voiced by both governments.

The court proceedings focused not on questions of cultural heritage or on which state was the successor to the Khmer Empire but on technicalities of the border demarcation work early in the century and Thailand's subsequent treatment of the resulting map.

Arguing in the Hague for Cambodia was former U.S. secretary of state Dean Acheson, while Thailand’s legal team included a former British attorney general, Sir Frank Soskice. Cambodia contended that the map showing the temple as being on Cambodian soil was the authoritative document. Thailand argued that the map was invalid, was not an official document of the border commission, and violated the commission’s working principle that the border would follow the watershed line, which would place the temple in Thailand. If Thailand had not protested the map earlier, the Thai side said, it was because Thai authorities had practical possession of the temple, due to the great difficulty of scaling the cliff from the Cambodian side, or had not understood that the map was wrong.

On June 15, 1962, the court ruled 9 to 3 that the temple belonged to Cambodia and, by a vote of 7 to 5, that Thailand must return any antiquities such as sculptures that it had removed from the temple.[3] In its decision, the court noted that over the five decades after the map was devised, the Siamese/Thai authorities did not object in various international forums to the map’s depiction of the temple’s location. Nor did they object when a French colonial official received the Siamese scholar and government figure Prince Damrong at the temple in 1930. Thailand had accepted and benefited from other parts of the border treaty, the court ruled. With these and other acts, it said, Thailand had accepted the map and therefore Cambodia was the owner of the temple.

Thailand reacted angrily. It announced it would boycott meetings of the Southeast Asia Treaty Organization, with Thai officials saying this step was to protest a U.S. bias toward Cambodia in the dispute. As evidence, Thai officials cited the pro-Cambodia vote of an American judge on the court and Acheson’s role as Cambodia’s advocate; the U.S. government replied that Acheson was merely acting as a private attorney, engaged by Cambodia. Mass demonstrations were staged in Thailand protesting the ruling.

Thailand eventually backed down and accepted to turn over the site to Cambodia. Rather than lower a Thai tricolor national flag that had been flying at the site, Thai soldiers dug and removed the pole on which it was flying.[4] The pole was put at Mor I Daeng Cliff until now. In January 1963, Cambodia formally took possession of the site in a colorful ceremony attended by close to 1,000 people, many of whom had made the arduous climb up the cliff from the Cambodian side. A fit Prince Sihanouk, Cambodia’s leader, bounded up the cliff in less than an hour, paused to sip lemonade, then made offerings to Buddhist monks. In the ceremony, he made a gesture of conciliation, announcing that all Thais would be able to visit the temple without visas, and that Thailand was free to keep antiquities that it had taken away from the site.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prasat_Preah_Vihear

[sriracha john]

Cambodian side:

Reuters

Thai side:

AFP

[ratcatcher]

Alternatively the Thai government could start cracking down on that criminal association called PAD, dismantle their unlawful network and incarcerate the leaders. Their continuing stoking the fires of nationalism, unlawful barricades (quietly supported by Abhisit Vejjajivaand) is damaging the country. At the same time they should void permit to stay to all those geriatric farang who supported PAD and make them persona non grata in Thailand.

At ease Sarge.

I'm sure that you have heard in London that the Thai government recently "cracked down" on the PAD without much success. There were many injuries, at least 2 fatalities and prominent funerals attended by some very important people.

The present PPP and it's predecessors TRT under it's former leader Thaksin Shinawatra and his cronies, have done far more damage to Thailand than the PAD could ever do. If anybody should be in jail it is Thaksin but he's jumped bail, now living in exile in the UK with his criminal wife as a political refugee.

As for your reference to "geriatric farang", not all expats here support PAD and besides Thailand is a free and democratic country, and foreigners are welcome here providing they can meet immigration requirements and obey the law.

I happen to support the PAD as does my Thai wife and family. I am sure there are many on this board that will agree with me and many that will not.

That's what makes Thailand an interesting place to live and Thai Visa an interesting discussion board.

[jdinasia]

Alternatively the Thai government could start cracking down on that criminal association called PAD, dismantle their unlawful network and incarcerate the leaders. Their continuing stoking the fires of nationalism, unlawful barricades (quietly supported by Abhisit Vejjajivaand) is damaging the country. At the same time they should void permit to stay to all those geriatric farang who supported PAD and make them persona non grata in Thailand.

At ease Sarge.

I'm sure that you have heard in London that the Thai government recently "cracked down" on the PAD without much success. There were many injuries, at least 2 fatalities and prominent funerals attended by some very important people.

The present PPP and it's predecessors TRT under it's former leader Thaksin Shinawatra and his cronies, have done far more damage to Thailand than the PAD could ever do. If anybody should be in jail it is Thaksin but he's jumped bail, now living in exile in the UK with his criminal wife as a political refugee.

As for your reference to "geriatric farang", not all expats here support PAD and besides Thailand is a free and democratic country, and foreigners are welcome here providing they can meet immigration requirements and obey the law.

I happen to support the PAD as does my Thai wife and family. I am sure there are many on this board that will agree with me and many that will not.

That's what makes Thailand an interesting place to live and Thai Visa an interesting discussion board.

Note --- "sarge" is posting from London

[sriracha john]

Cambodian side:

Preah Vihear Governor Preab Tan said, "The Thais fired at us first."

- Reuters

Thai side:

Thai Army spokesman Col. Sansern Kaewkamnerd said, "Cambodia opened fire first."

- TNA

Edited October 15, 2008 by sriracha john

[bangkokrick]

Cambodian side:

Preah Vihear Governor Preab Tan said, "The Thais fired at us first."

- Reuters

Thai side:

Thai Army spokesman Col. Sansern Kaewkamnerd said, "Cambodia opened fire first."

- TNA

I doubt that we will ever know the truth.

Cheers, Rick

[sriracha john]

Protest letter to be given to Cambodia following today's border clashes

The Foreign Ministry will be handing over a protest letter to Cambodia’s charge d'affaires posted in Thailand in response to the recent collision between Thai and Cambodian rangers at the disputed Phra Viharn compound this afternoon.

The spokesman of the Foreign Ministry Tharid Charoongwat revealed that at 6:00 P.M. today, the ministry had invited Cambodia’s charge d'affaires to Thailand, Aook Sopon, to receive the letter of protest following today’s collision between Thai and Cambodian rangers at the disputed Phra Viharn compound.

The letter aimed to provide an affirmative statement that Thailand did not initiate the collision, but such action was considered as self-defense which is covered under Section 51 of the UN regulations.

The spokesman also asserted that the ministry had already prepared to evacuate the Thai citizens including 1,000 of Thai locals residing on the borders between Thailand and Cambodia and Thai citizens living in Phnom Phen and 400-500 of Sieb Raat residents out of Cambodia. Also, it had been reported that Thai Airways had already been contacted by the ministry requesting for their cooperation to evacuate these affected people.

- ThaiNews / 2008-10-15

Edited October 15, 2008 by sriracha john

[Bangyai]

As I have been led to believe the "land" in question is like the "Gaza trip" in Israeli/Palestinian territory. There is no oil, gold, agriculturally it is a waste land but, apparently, it contains the only "road" to a temple already established to be the sole property of Cambodia.

Would the Thais, not very experienced at war, not consider getting permission and, building another road ...

Why should the build a new road? They own a perfectly good one already. It's Cambodians who need to build another road, a cable car, actually, to access their temple, and it's Cambodians who insist that the existing access road has no value.

Now what was it you once said ... " How about learning some history ? "

Actually, the Cambodians don't need to build an access road. They have already done so several years ago. This was the result of the Thais cutting of the water supply to Cambodian stall holders in the area because their waste water was flowing into a small stream at the entrance to the temple and then flowing on into a Thai reservoir and polluting it. In response, the Cambodians decided they needed their own access road and proceeded to build one right across the now disputed area in full view of the Thais who raised absolutely no objection. As relations between the two nations improved and the temple became more frequently visited by tourists from both sides of the border ( there is also a staircase up to it from the bottom of the cliff ) The Cambodians decided to build another road up to the pass on the East of the temple with a view to joining up to a road from the Thai side and thus provide a decent cross border route. At this stage the Thais showed no enthusiasm for the link up and no work was done from the Thai side. The Cambodians therefore stopped the construction of the second road.

There has been peace along this border for a long time. If the PAD had kept their big mouths shut their still would be and both countries would have benefited from increased tourism in the area. For the sake of making a few points against the govournment the PAD and Sondhi in particular have now caused a major incident and more people have died as a result.

[Bangyai]

As I have been led to believe the "land" in question is like the "Gaza trip" in Israeli/Palestinian territory. There is no oil, gold, agriculturally it is a waste land but, apparently, it contains the only "road" to a temple already established to be the sole property of Cambodia.

Would the Thais, not very experienced at war, not consider getting permission and, building another road ...

Why should the build a new road? They own a perfectly good one already. It's Cambodians who need to build another road, a cable car, actually, to access their temple, and it's Cambodians who insist that the existing access road has no value.

Now what was it you once said ... " How about learning some history ? "

Actually, the Cambodians don't need to build an access road. They have already done so several years ago. This was the result of the Thais cutting of the water supply to Cambodian stall holders in the area because their waste water was flowing into a small stream at the entrance to the temple and then flowing on into a Thai reservoir and polluting it. In response, the Cambodians decided they needed their own access road and proceeded to build one right across the now disputed area in full view of the Thais who raised absolutely no objection. As relations between the two nations improved and the temple became more frequently visited by tourists from both sides of the border ( there is also a staircase up to it from the bottom of the cliff ) The Cambodians decided to build another road up to the pass on the East of the temple with a view to joining up to a road from the Thai side and thus provide a decent cross border route. At this stage the Thais showed no enthusiasm for the link up and no work was done from the Thai side. The Cambodians therefore stopped the construction of the second road.

There has been peace along this border for a long time. If the PAD had kept their big mouths shut their still would be and both countries would have benefited from increased tourism in the area. For the sake of making a few points against the govournment the PAD and Sondhi in particular have now caused a major incident and more people have died as a result.

[sjaak327]

There has been peace along this border for a long time. If the PAD had kept their big mouths shut their still would be and both countries would have benefited from increased tourism in the area. For the sake of making a few points against the govournment the PAD and Sondhi in particular have now caused a major incident and more people have died as a result.

Exactly.

[Scott]

The first casualty of war is usually the truth.

[misterme]

from Reuters

Q+A: Thailand and Cambodia face off again - for what? http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/i...0081014?sp=true

1) If war broke out, would Thailand easily defeat Cambodia?

Yes and no...

2) Apart from national pride, is there any reason to go to war over this scrubland?

Not really, but...

An interesting article I was linked to from 2bangkok.com

AND

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/i...0081014?sp=true

-- Preah Vihear has witnessed its fair share of bloodshed.

The Khmer Rouge occupied the site for years, and rusting artillery pieces can still be found lying amid the ruins.

In June 1979, Thai soldiers forced 45,000 refugees from Pol Pot's "Killing Fields" to descend the heavily mined escarpment back into Cambodia.

"Several thousand died, either shot by Thai soldiers to prevent them trying to cross back, or blown up in the minefields," British historian Philip Short wrote in a seminal biography of Pol Pot.

Edited October 15, 2008 by misterme

[bangkokrick]

from Reuters

Q+A: Thailand and Cambodia face off again - for what? http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/i...0081014?sp=true

1) If war broke out, would Thailand easily defeat Cambodia?

Yes and no...

2) Apart from national pride, is there any reason to go to war over this scrubland?

Not really, but...

An interesting article I was linked to from 2bangkok.com

AND

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/i...0081014?sp=true

-- Preah Vihear has witnessed its fair share of bloodshed.

The Khmer Rouge occupied the site for years, and rusting artillery pieces can still be found lying amid the ruins.

In June 1979, Thai soldiers forced 45,000 refugees from Pol Pot's "Killing Fields" to descend the heavily mined escarpment back into Cambodia.

"Several thousand died, either shot by Thai soldiers to prevent them trying to cross back, or blown up in the minefields," British historian Philip Short wrote in a seminal biography of Pol Pot.

Here is evidence of the Khmer Rouge occupation. I took the pic last year.

Cheers, Rick

[jdinasia]

I thought the KR controlled much of that area far later than stated and that the CPT used the area as well at times!

[Krungthepian]

-- Preah Vihear has witnessed its fair share of bloodshed.

The Khmer Rouge occupied the site for years, and rusting artillery pieces can still be found lying amid the ruins.

In June 1979, Thai soldiers forced 45,000 refugees from Pol Pot's "Killing Fields" to descend the heavily mined escarpment back into Cambodia.

"Several thousand died, either shot by Thai soldiers to prevent them trying to cross back, or blown up in the minefields," British historian Philip Short wrote in a seminal biography of Pol Pot.

That is a notorious incident from the post Khmer Rouge era, when Thailand was flooded with refugees (Site 2 camp near Aranyaprathet housed up to 250,000 I believe). William Shawcross reported it in his book "The Quality of Mercy" long before Philip Short's biography.

The interesting thing is who the Thai generals were at that time. I've got a feeling Sanan was around at time and may have been involved. But that may not be correct.

I still suspect Thaksin may have a hand in this latest flare-up (as opposed to blue bloods wanting a different reason to topple the govt), and sad thing is it looks to have done what was desired - draw attention from the main game in Bangkok.

[animatic]

Cambodian side:

Preah Vihear Governor Preab Tan said, "The Thais fired at us first."

- Reuters

Thai side:

Thai Army spokesman Col. Sansern Kaewkamnerd said, "Cambodia opened fire first."

- TNA

WELL OF COURSE!!!

[animatic]

As I have been led to believe the "land" in question is like the "Gaza trip" in Israeli/Palestinian territory. There is no oil, gold, agriculturally it is a waste land but, apparently, it contains the only "road" to a temple already established to be the sole property of Cambodia.

Would the Thais, not very experienced at war, not consider getting permission and, building another road ...

Why should the build a new road? They own a perfectly good one already. It's Cambodians who need to build another road, a cable car, actually, to access their temple, and it's Cambodians who insist that the existing access road has no value.

Now what was it you once said ... " How about learning some history ? "

Actually, the Cambodians don't need to build an access road. They have already done so several years ago. This was the result of the Thais cutting of the water supply to Cambodian stall holders in the area because their waste water was flowing into a small stream at the entrance to the temple and then flowing on into a Thai reservoir and polluting it. In response, the Cambodians decided they needed their own access road and proceeded to build one right across the now disputed area in full view of the Thais who raised absolutely no objection. As relations between the two nations improved and the temple became more frequently visited by tourists from both sides of the border ( there is also a staircase up to it from the bottom of the cliff ) The Cambodians decided to build another road up to the pass on the East of the temple with a view to joining up to a road from the Thai side and thus provide a decent cross border route. At this stage the Thais showed no enthusiasm for the link up and no work was done from the Thai side. The Cambodians therefore stopped the construction of the second road.

There has been peace along this border for a long time. If the PAD had kept their big mouths shut their still would be and both countries would have benefited from increased tourism in the area. For the sake of making a few points against the govournment the PAD and Sondhi in particular have now caused a major incident and more people have died as a result.

I see this less as PAD doing but Noppadon screwing up not understanding his job.

If he had passed the documents through the senate this all would be moot.

But he didn't even know his job properly enough to know he was doing it wrong.

The only reason PAD made a stick was because Noppadon and Samak

gave them such a good nationalist tool to use against them.

Noppadon and the Samak Cabinet share culpability with PAD,

likely much more, for this blowing up. Mismanaged on a galactic scale.

I STILL wonder why this Samak cabinet has not been

globally charged with constitutional violations yet.

Edited October 15, 2008 by animatic

[Sarge]

Alternatively the Thai government could start cracking down on that criminal association called PAD, dismantle their unlawful network and incarcerate the leaders. Their continuing stoking the fires of nationalism, unlawful barricades (quietly supported by Abhisit Vejjajivaand) is damaging the country. At the same time they should void permit to stay to all those geriatric farang who supported PAD and make them persona non grata in Thailand.

The present PPP and it's predecessors TRT under it's former leader Thaksin Shinawatra and his cronies, have done far more damage to Thailand than the PAD could ever do. If anybody should be in jail it is Thaksin but he's jumped bail, now living in exile in the UK with his criminal wife as a political refugee.

yeah maybe convicted criminal turncoat Sondhi Limthongkul can share porridge with him. After all he knows a thing or two about prisons. How fitting that having tasted the dark side he keeps carrying on unlawful, criminal activities, such leading a morally bankrupt (hey he knows a few things about bankruptcy too) movement called PAD.

btw, I'm sure you're fully aware that after the election of Thaksin in 2001, several of Sondhi's associates became leaders in the new government. His banker, Viroj Nualkhair, became president of state-owned Krung Thai Bank and gave over a billion baht in debt forgiveness to Sondhi, allowing him to emerge from bankrupcy. Sondhi became a vocal supporter of Thaksin, calling him "the best prime minister our country has ever had."

Funny how things change in life, innit?

[Sarge]

Note --- "sarge" is posting from London

and?

[sjaak327]

btw, I'm sure you're fully aware that after the election of Thaksin in 2001, several of Sondhi's associates became leaders in the new government. His banker, Viroj Nualkhair, became president of state-owned Krung Thai Bank and gave over a billion baht in debt forgiveness to Sondhi, allowing him to emerge from bankrupcy. Sondhi became a vocal supporter of Thaksin, calling him "the best prime minister our country has ever had."

Funny how things change in life, innit?

That's why a lot of people take anything Sondhi has to say, with a truckload full of salt.

He lies with every breath he takes

[bangkokrick]

Note --- "sarge" is posting from London

and?

I also found that to be a strange comment sarge, but i think the emphasis is on London-Thaksin level.

Cheers, Rick

[Bangyai]

As I have been led to believe the "land" in question is like the "Gaza trip" in Israeli/Palestinian territory. There is no oil, gold, agriculturally it is a waste land but, apparently, it contains the only "road" to a temple already established to be the sole property of Cambodia.

Would the Thais, not very experienced at war, not consider getting permission and, building another road ...

Why should the build a new road? They own a perfectly good one already. It's Cambodians who need to build another road, a cable car, actually, to access their temple, and it's Cambodians who insist that the existing access road has no value.

Now what was it you once said ... " How about learning some history ? "

There has been peace along this border for a long time. If the PAD had kept their big mouths shut their still would be and both countries would have benefited from increased tourism in the area. For the sake of making a few points against the govournment the PAD and Sondhi in particular have now caused a major incident and more people have died as a result.

I see this less as PAD doing but Noppadon screwing up not understanding his job.

If he had passed the documents through the senate this all would be moot.

But he didn't even know his job properly enough to know he was doing it wrong.

The only reason PAD made a stick was because Noppadon and Samak

gave them such a good nationalist tool to use against them.

Noppadon and the Samak Cabinet share culpability with PAD,

likely much more, for this blowing up. Mismanaged on a galactic scale.

I STILL wonder why this Samak cabinet has not been

globally charged with constitutional violations yet.

I disagree . If the PAD need to find someone to share the blame with then they can point at Aphisit and the democrats as they also wanted to get their two bahts worth from the govournment.

As for constitutional violations. Perhaps you can remind us who it was who tore up the last constitution with Chamlongs approval. Don't recollect them asking anyones permission for that discraceful constitutional violation !!