Cambodia Threatens War With Thailand Within 24 Hours

[jdinasia]

Another example of this is when the Republicans in the US Staged the attacks of 911 so they could create Fear...

Reckless, irresponsible, and flaming statements such as these have no place in Thai Visa.com

Strangely (and yes I use that word advisedly) another poster (Loaded) has been pushing that bit of craziness in the forums lately as well.

I wish they would go sell 'crazy' somewhere else, as we already have plenty in Thailand

[exalll]

There'd be a lot less wars if politicians had to lead the troops into battle.

If in any doubt as to the Thai capability, remember they are the most populous nation in mainland South East Asia, and therefore have the largest personnel resources to draw upon - both currently serving, and demobbed "veterans".

Gaz

Thailand: population 64 million; Vietnam: population 85 million.

[cougar52]

May I correct this to : "it's a deal with a former PM of Thailand, who still governs it per remote control and wishes dearly to make his come back, to reclaim "his lost riches"!

EXCUSE ME!!!!!! You sound like the hate monger Sondhi Limthongkul. May I inform you that at the time (1962) when the border was established by court the Temple and the land was given to Cambodia. At that time Mr. Thaksin being only 13 years old had nothing to do with it. Not being a lover of Thaksin or his abuses it is a strong stretch to tie him to the original issue of who owns the a fore mentioned area.

[Foggy Bottom]

There'd be a lot less wars if politicians had to lead the troops into battle.

If in any doubt as to the Thai capability, remember they are the most populous nation in mainland South East Asia, and therefore have the largest personnel resources to draw upon - both currently serving, and demobbed "veterans".

Gaz

Thailand: population 64 million; Vietnam: population 85 million.

My mistake - apologies - I had forgotten to account for Vietnam .... comes from the habit of having thought of it as two seperate nations for so long (my excuse and I'll stick to it )

[Meridian007]

May I correct this to : "it's a deal with a former PM of Thailand, who still governs it per remote control and wishes dearly to make his come back, to reclaim "his lost riches"!

EXCUSE ME!!!!!! You sound like the hate monger Sondhi Limthongkul. May I inform you that at the time (1962) when the border was established by court the Temple and the land was given to Cambodia. At that time Mr. Thaksin being only 13 years old had nothing to do with it. Not being a lover of Thaksin or his abuses it is a strong stretch to tie him to the original issue of who owns the a fore mentioned area.

I don't think he's trying to say that Thaksin had anything to do with the roots of this confrontation. He is merely positing that the current flare-up may be in part due to political machinations. In the current global political arena this is a common tactic as has been shown by other posters (and media, history books, etc...).

"never assume..."

[h90]

May I correct this to : "it's a deal with a former PM of Thailand, who still governs it per remote control and wishes dearly to make his come back, to reclaim "his lost riches"!

EXCUSE ME!!!!!! You sound like the hate monger Sondhi Limthongkul. May I inform you that at the time (1962) when the border was established by court the Temple and the land was given to Cambodia. At that time Mr. Thaksin being only 13 years old had nothing to do with it. Not being a lover of Thaksin or his abuses it is a strong stretch to tie him to the original issue of who owns the a fore mentioned area.

did you come to Thailand just yesterday? if so, read what the Samak government did first when they came into power. Most of the past rumors from Sondhi turned out to be true (or very close to the true) later on....

[ralph]

As I have been led to believe the "land" in question is like the "Gaza trip" in Israeli/Palestinian territory. There is no oil, gold, agriculturally it is a waste land but, apparently, it contains the only "road" to a temple already established to be the sole property of Cambodia.

Would the Thais, not very experienced at war, not consider getting permission and, building another road or is it preferable to start a "shooting" war instead ? Once again reports from Thais re : meetings with the Cambodians, ( everything okay ! ), and the Cambodians say no okay, get out or we shoot ! Were I to lay odds on the victor in a border skirmish, Cambodia would come out on top.

Most important is, even if the Thais win the "road" they still, without permission, cannot enter the Cambodian Temple. This is a classic example of a "no win' situation.

[PeaceBlondie]

I am so confused. There is going to be a war, the troops have left, the troops are still there. I have academic majors in Christian religion and accounting, neither of which apply. Let's see what is true here.

1. The Buddha was from India or Nepal.

2. In theory and often in practice, the Buddhist religion not only holds animal life more or less sacred, but human life, also.

3. Buddhists are thought to be pacifists in principle.

4. Gandhi was an Indian Hindu pacifist.

5. Both Thailand and Kampuchea are considered to be overwhelmingly Buddhist.

6. This border dispute involves an ancient, nearly unused, HINDU temple.

7. Gandhi was killed by an Indian Hindu over 50 years ago.

8. India, and Hindus, do not care about this temple.

9. Both Thailand and Kampuchea teach their citizens to kill invaders, regardless of what Buddha would do.

Did I miss anything?

[Andrew Hicks]

The days of constantly moving borders has come to an end. The area in dispute falls in Cambodian territory making a far stretch to be considered Thai.

How do you know that the area in dispute falls in Cambodian territory. From news reports it appears it's still part of the 4.6 square kilometers disputed zone. Cambodian troops are there, Thai troops are there, it doesn't belong to anyone at the moment.

The International Court of Justice in 1962 awarded the temple to Cambodia interpreting a treaty and border map of 1904 agreed upon between French Indo-China and Siam at that time.

What I don't understand is why the 4.6 sq km is now disputed or how the border is not clearly defined by the 1904 map. Surveys were accurately done at that time.

I know the temple well and am unclear where exactly this piece of land is. Has anyone seen a definitive map of it?

Ultimately a dispute over a tiny scarp of scrub land that is economically useless is hardly worth the damage to bilateral relations and all the loss of cross-border trade that's currently occurring. Both countries are hardly doing themselves a favour in the eyes of the world.

In broader terms the temple is cultural heritage that is shared by people on both sides of a border that has been been imposed on them by a colonial power through unequal treaties.

How sad if they cannot rise above the national rhetoric and enjoy the temple together as shared heritage.

I have written at length about Khao Phra Viharn and posted photos on my blog as I live not so far away.

I love the place dearly.

Andrew Hicks

[LongThaimer]

There'd be a lot less wars if politicians had to lead the troops into battle.

Check your history books - the above statement actually goes against the trend - wars have been far less frequent, though far longer sustained and more devastating, since national leaders stopped leading the troops.

when was the last time thailand was in a war internally or with neighbours???? i don't mean border skirmishes......i mean real brutal ones...

while no doubt better armed the big question is can untested thai soldiers stomach the brutalites of war and cope hardships in the jungles better than their foes???

if it does happen..it's going to be bloody machine guns jungle warfare......

It could be argued the border defence against Burmese incursions is just a long running low key war, it has certainly provided frequent exercise in "live fire" response and defence, and as with the Feb/Mar 2001 incident at Mai Sai / Doi Mae Salong - it also provided good practise of mass rapid reaction deployment.

The last major sustained conflict within Thai soil was probably the anti-communist campaign in the North during the 1960's & 70's when the Thai forces recruited the refugee remnants of the KMT (now usually referred to as the "Chin Haw" hill tribes - a total misnomer - and the success of that campaign gave the KMT exiles citizenship of Thailand. Remember too they have deployed peacekeeping forces to Iraq, Afghanistan, and East Timor - all of which have been rotated at least once, thus have "dirty combat" experienced troops.

Gaz

anyone with a decent education understands logistics demands of a full scale war.......it's not hard to see that odds are with cambodia from resources point of view.......what remains to be seen is whether thai soldiers are say hard enough for real war having never really fought in a real brutal war in their recent history....

what they do at burmese borders is for show.....driving around in asphalted roads of northern thailand is not called preparing for war......

yeah...a small number of army nurses and engineers were sent to iraq but they were there mainly because of pressure from uncle sam.... "you are either with us or against us" ......they certainly didn't go there with intent to join the fight....

[jdinasia]

LongThaimer .... huh?

What long brutal war was cambodia involved in that would have any current field level veterans?

Your knowledge of what has occurred along the Myanmar border seems a bit lacking too.

(BTW ... does anyone know the arms and numbers of standing troop levels for either nation?)

But this won't ever likely go to full scale war. A localized battle to grab and hold the contested land? possibly, but I doubt even that.

Edit ---- and what about the relative population differences? ......

Edited October 14, 2008 by jdinasia

[regfrancis]

This is just a pretty blatant way to promote nationalism and break the will of the PAD.

Spot on, this is a show to change the will of the Thai people, not unlike what the American government did with 9/11. PM, and the Thaksin cabal are desperate.

[Sunderland]

if more of this happens all the tourist will be afraid to travel to thailand. and also people will not want to come.

if thailand and cambodia are going to make a WAR, who will build all the hotels and the houses in pattaya,

mst of them also come from cambodia,

Surely Pattaya should be the first target! Do the Khmers have any jet fighters, or are they going to borrow Air Asia jets and push concrete blocks out the cabin doors?

[regfrancis]

All very simple and streight foward----The military takes power, and wars will of course increase, after all what is the mititary for??? no wars no military.

[Guest Reimar]

FROM TOC

PM Meets with Armed Forces' Leaders to Discuss Preah Vihear Conflict

UPDATE : 14 October 2008

Despite a warning by the Cambodian government to immediately remove Thai military forces from a disputed border area, the Thai government and military insists on retaining Thai troops unless Cambodia also agrees to withdraw its forces.

Prime Minister and Defence Minister Somchai Wongsawat held a meeting with Foreign Minister Sompong Amornwiwat, Supreme Commander General Songkitti Jababatara, Army Chief General Anupong Paochinda, Navy Chief Admiral Kamthorn Poomhirun, Air Force Chief Air Chief Marshal Ittaporn Supawong, and Defence Permanent-secretary General Apichart Penkitti to discuss the Cambodian government's warning for Thailand to remove its military forces from the controversial border of the Preah Vihear sanctuary within 24 hours.

The prime minister confirmed that Thailand and Cambodia must pull back their soldiers to avoid any confrontation, and special committees appointed by the two countries must hold discussions on further details. He did not criticise Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen's action and said he will closely monitor to the situation before making contact with the Cambodian leader.

Foreign Affairs Minister Sompong Amornwiwat expressed surprise at Cambodia's ultimatum for Thailand to withdraw its troops, saying that his meeting with Cambodian leaders yesterday went well. He does not understand why Cambodia had a change of heart and issued this ultimatum after the meeting.

Sompong said a bilateral meeting between the two countries should be held to resolve this conflict and it can be further discussed during tomorrow's regional border committee meeting in Si Sa Ket province and October 21st's Thai-Cambodian border Committee meeting at the ministerial level in Siem Reap.

He reiterated that Thai military forces will continue patrolling at the border area and will try to avoid any violence. Sonpong said he does not want anyone to complain that he is selling the country's territory and sovereignty, and that the conflict is an issue the leaders of the two countries must deal with.

Meanwhile, Army Spokesman Colonel Sansern Kaewkamnerd revealed the military will continue its presence around the Preah Vihear Temple area, of which the ownership is still disputed between the two countries. The Armed Forces leaders will monitor the situation closely and report to the prime minister.

As for Thai nationals in Cambodia and whether any harm will befall them, the Army spokesman said it is the responsibility of the Foreign Ministry and the government to review if they should be evacuated from the country but the military is ready to help with the evacuation process.

Colonel Sansern affirmed Thai troops will not invade Cambodia's territory but they will be ready to protect Thailand's sovereignty should Cambodian troops move in on Thai soil.

[Plus]

The days of constantly moving borders has come to an end. The area in dispute falls in Cambodian territory making a far stretch to be considered Thai.

How do you know that the area in dispute falls in Cambodian territory. From news reports it appears it's still part of the 4.6 square kilometers disputed zone. Cambodian troops are there, Thai troops are there, it doesn't belong to anyone at the moment.

The International Court of Justice in 1962 awarded the temple to Cambodia interpreting a treaty and border map of 1904 agreed upon between French Indo-China and Siam at that time.

What I don't understand is why the 4.6 sq km is now disputed or how the border is not clearly defined by the 1904 map. Surveys were accurately done at that time.

No, no surveys, the Court didn't rule on the status of the map or border, only on the temple itself. Thais claimed it and the rest of the territory, they lost the temple only, in their view.

I know the temple well and am unclear where exactly this piece of land is. Has anyone seen a definitive map of it?

I posted a map on the second page of this thread, I belive.

Ultimately a dispute over a tiny scarp of scrub land that is economically useless is hardly worth the damage..

Oh no, no no no no. These border dispute stretches for hundreds of kilometers, you settle one piece, it sets the precedent. And there's the ultimate prize - potentially oil and gas reach areas at sea. That's a really big one.

[h90]

I am so confused. There is going to be a war, the troops have left, the troops are still there. I have academic majors in Christian religion and accounting, neither of which apply. Let's see what is true here.

1. The Buddha was from India or Nepal.

2. In theory and often in practice, the Buddhist religion not only holds animal life more or less sacred, but human life, also.

3. Buddhists are thought to be pacifists in principle.

4. Gandhi was an Indian Hindu pacifist.

5. Both Thailand and Kampuchea are considered to be overwhelmingly Buddhist.

6. This border dispute involves an ancient, nearly unused, HINDU temple.

7. Gandhi was killed by an Indian Hindu over 50 years ago.

8. India, and Hindus, do not care about this temple.

9. Both Thailand and Kampuchea teach their citizens to kill invaders, regardless of what Buddha would do.

Did I miss anything?

At Christian and Islam religion it is almost the same. Seems all don't read their holy books.

Remind that all the religions come to military and celebrate with new weapons.....christian buddhist and muslims....

[medegen]

No retreat

BangkokPost.com/dpa

Cambodia claimed on Tuesday that Thai soldiers pulled back from a tense border region, but Thai officials denied making any retreat. Thailand, officials

vowed, would not be the first to resort to force along the frontier.

Cambodian army Gen Chea Mon told the Reuters news agency: "They (Thailand) pulled out from our land" shortly before the so-called Phnom Penh ultimatum at noon. "The situation seems to have returned to normal. Our troops are occupying the area where the Thai troops have pulled out."

Sheer nonsense, said Thai officials.

"We are still there," Prime Minister and Defense Minister Somchai Wongsawat said after a meeting with Army chief Gen Anupong Paochinda and foreign ministry officials.

Also: "We will not be the side to use force first," he told a press conference. "We will try to use negotiations."

Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen on Monday shocked Thailand and foreign observers when he gave a deadline of noon on Tuesday to withdraw all its troops from an area adjacent to the Preah Vihear temple on the Thai-Cambodian border or face a "large-scale conflict."

Thai foreign ministry officials expressed surprise at Cambodia's claims that Thailand had already withdrawn its troops from the area, which has been the source of an increasingly volatile spat between the two countries since July.

"We were quite surprised by the withdrawal claim, because we think of this territory as being in Thailand, so why would we withdraw," said Thani Thongphakdi, a deputy spokesman for the foreign ministry.

In a statement issued earlier Tuesday, the foreign ministry also expressed "surprise" at Hun Sen's fighting words, noting that it went against the "sprit of neighborliness" between fellow members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations.

After his meeting with Foreign Minister Sompong Amornvivat in Phnom Penh on Monday, Hun Sen told reporters that he had warned the Thais to withdraw their troops from the disputed area around the Preah Vihear temple or face fighting.

"They must move tonight or tomorrow. If they don't ... there will be fighting," he said.

Cambodia has been pressing to have the border spat settled by a regional or international body, but Thailand has insisted it could be handled bilaterally. (dpa)

[Gravelrash]

Assume Cambodia seeing the Thai military mishandling in the South figures they can at least saber rattle st Thailand. What a load of ridiculous posturing, admittedly both camps have a glorious history of killing unarmed civilians, but both would be out of their depth in an actual war. If it ever came to it though your money would be on Thailand.

[Smithson]

I am so confused. There is going to be a war, the troops have left, the troops are still there. I have academic majors in Christian religion and accounting, neither of which apply. Let's see what is true here.

1. The Buddha was from India or Nepal.

2. In theory and often in practice, the Buddhist religion not only holds animal life more or less sacred, but human life, also.

3. Buddhists are thought to be pacifists in principle.

4. Gandhi was an Indian Hindu pacifist.

5. Both Thailand and Kampuchea are considered to be overwhelmingly Buddhist.

6. This border dispute involves an ancient, nearly unused, HINDU temple.

7. Gandhi was killed by an Indian Hindu over 50 years ago.

8. India, and Hindus, do not care about this temple.

9. Both Thailand and Kampuchea teach their citizens to kill invaders, regardless of what Buddha would do.

Did I miss anything?

Would be interesting to make similar comments about the US, a country that kills, imprisons and executes each other at much higher rates than any other developed country and whose population goes to church much more than other developed countries. Isn't George Bush a born again, didn't he claim God told him to invade Iraq?

Edited October 14, 2008 by Smithson

[innovator]

A simple solution would be to relocate all of the PAD, DADD, PPP, protesters, AIG and others to the border dispute area. This would free up the government house for other things, like work and allow the protesters and supporters to join together in a common cause to protect the disputed area, while at the same time driving the Cambodian military mad with the noise from the clappers.

[JetsetBkk]

I believe what we have here is a Mexican standoff!

Are you talking about Thailand vs. Cambodia, or the Government vs. PAD?

[warmwater7]

This is just a pretty blatant way to promote nationalism and break the will of the PAD.

Spot on, this is a show to change the will of the Thai people, not unlike what the American government did with 9/11. PM, and the Thaksin cabal are desperate.

exactly

[Farma]

<Snip> anyone with a decent education understands logistics demands of a full scale war......<snip>

Just curious....Does the Cambodian side still only have that one dirt road providing access to the little Cambodian town below the temple while Thailand has good quality sealed roads coming in from many directions?

I would have thought road access for resupplies would have been an advantage.

[misterme]

Besides, as I understand it Thailand failed to represent their case in the UNESCO decision, missing all deadlines and extensions to file the papers needed to participate in the process.

You don't understand Thai culture .

I do understand Thai culture. But laziness and incompetence are not valid reasons OUTSIDE on the world stage. IF they chose to be more than a banana republic, it will include more responsibility and less whining and excuses.

[misterme]

Sounds to me like the facts that the Khymer Empire built it are clear.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Cambodian-Thai_stand-off

"The temple was built during the 9th and 10th centuries by the Khmer Empire...

...In 1867, Franco-Thai treaty renouncing Thai suzerainty over Cambodia , and leaving Siam for the control of Battambang, Siem Reap, Banteay Meanchey and Oddar Meancheay provinces [3], which officially became provinces of Thailand.

In 1904, the map was made and state the temple as being on Thailand's boundary. Later in 1907, the 4 provinces were ceded back to France in an exchange for regaining Thai sovereignty of Trat Province and Amphoe Dan Sai of Loei Province, in a border treaty between France and Thailand, during the state visit of King Rama V to France[3]...

...In 1907 the Thai-Cambodian border was mapped by the French on behalf of a bilateral border commission. The principle was that it should follow the watershed line. By this, the temple would be in Thailand's boundary according to the principle. However, the subsequent map showed Preah Vihear Temple as being in Cambodia, which is different from 1904 map.Despite this, Thailand circulated the map for official use. The circulation significantly affects current dispute.[4]...

... December 21, 1941, Thailand and Japan signed a military alliance with a secret protocol wherein Tokyo agreed to help Thailand in regaining territories lost to the British and French colonial powers, in exchange Thailand had to assist Japan in her war against the Allies....

After World War II, Thai Prime Minister Pridi Phanomyong agreed to return the captured territories to France, as a condition for not being regarded as neither an aggressor nor a member of the Axis Powers so as not to suffer a similar fate to Germany, Japan and Italy, and admission to the newly created United Nations. First, United Kingdom and Soviet Union willingly regarded Thailand as an aggressor. With help from the United States that support the returning of territories and Free Thai Movement reasons, Thailand eventually was not regarded as an aggressor.

Upon Cambodian Independence and the French withdrawal in 1953 Thailand occupied Preah Vihear Temple in 1954....

In 1962 the International Court of Justice in the Hague, the Netherlands, awarded ownership of Preah Vihear Temple to Cambodia, stating that the 1907 map clearly showed Preah Vihear as being in Cambodia...

... Thailand eventually reluctantly handed over the temple and limited surrounding areas, but has never withdrawn from the surrounding land, in contravention of the 1962 ICJ judgment,..."

Edited October 14, 2008 by misterme

[randyun]

What they gonna use against Thailand? Thier bad breath ?

Apart from a few AK's left from when the yanks were there they aint got &lt;deleted&gt; to fight with. A long drawn out war this will be!

My friend, maybe you too young to know or drug up by those Thai girls. But early 70’s, Khmer Rouge fought against the government with just AK47 and maybe a few machine guns. They didn’t use tanks nor F16. One thing you should know also is, they don’t take prisoner of war.

[Krungthepian]

Sounds like somebody is trying to heat up the situation by moving Thai soldiers closer to the Temple. What they want to achieve is unclear. I guess weaken the government, but usually a war situation or external crisis strengthens whoever is in charge so it doesn't make any sense to me. TIT, I guess.

I suspect you're right. I'd put money on it being a deliberate distraction. Reason: The Somchai government is drawing a lot of flak over the clashes last Tuesday - 2 dead 478 injured. It was a long day of chaos beamed to every corner of the globe. And I think it's become more clear in the days since the government pushed too hard. Didn't even give the protesters a five or 10-minute warning re the use of teargas. The Army chief went very close to saying Somchai should "take responsibility" - as they repeatedly say - and stand down.

The dramas on October 7 hit tourist arrivals, yet again, and the local economy; very little lift in the SET today, despite big jumps in the US and elsewhere. The fatalities (two) now look to have been caused by the use of explosive teargas canisters, so authorities are directly to blame.. Dr Pornthip has come out saying the police were pushed to act by the politicians further up the food chain.. Somchai came back from a meeting with His Majesty the King looking very grim.. and there was much speculation re the House being dissolved. Surely, only the Rich One in London is stalling things. On Monday, the Queen attended the funeral of the young woman killed last Tuesday by one of those explosive teargas canisters. These are all quite strong signals.

Anand has today come out and said the one person who can defuse the entire situation is Thaksin. In fact, there are probably 300 people who can do that - MPs in the government coalition, the faceless Yes Men who take his money. And that includes the little Eel from Suphan Buri. On the other hand many of these people are known for selling their soul; I think their constituents know what they're like.

Given these circumstances, I reckon it's a classic Thaksin play to drum up this distraction, particularly when they have the new Foreign minister there in Phnom Penh to whisper in Hun Sen's ear: Don't worry, we just need a little sideshow for domestic purposes.

In fact, Hun Sen played a similar game just before he was elected a couple of months ago. The sad thing is these pathetic games have an impact in both nations and widely abroad. Some prominent Thai needs to be standing up and saying they have no place in Preah Vihear because the International Court has ruled on that issue, in the early 60s.

The sooner Thailand gets a credible body formed with Phnom Penh to carefully negotiate an agreed boundary, the better. Indeed, it seems like a gross indictment of recent administrations that they have similar problems on major sections of the Lao and Burma borders also. I can't help feeling they need another Surayud government - elected preferably (not likely to happen, I know) - but just someone mature and sensible; to help resolve these problems that linger like mines under the surface. Another big one is reforming the police. Heaven knows when that will happen if they re-elect Thaksin's mob (Puea Thai in the next poll?)

Sometimes it's tempting to say "som nom na" to all the Northerners and Northeasterners who voted for People Power and this gangster government; serves you right for electing these grubs. It's more complex than that, of course, but you really do wonder: Are people in Isaan going to learn anything from the divide and the clashes in recent times? Has there been enough drama to make them want to change who they vote for? Or are the MPs in the North and Northeast gonna change direction? Frankly, they seem to act like lemmings who rush to their chosen chair just as the music stops. The sole solution may be to empty Thaksin's war chest. Confiscate every zac they can.

But maybe Abhisit needs to gets some foothold in the Northeast and do everything he can to stop looking like a toff. He is very capable and charming, no doubt, but he needs clusters of support in TRT or PPP's traditional strongholds. Maybe he needs to get on the Lao khao with Newin and start walking under a few elephants... get himself a mia noi out in Ubon; get photographed with young singers in a shower in Khon Kaen motel .. ('cuse me, went into NotTheNation mode).

Back to the Cambodian border crisis: It would be interesting as to whether the whole situation is being played up, even by Hun Sen, who is reportedly very close to Thaksin. What's the chances the Rich One gave him a call and said 'Play it up for 24 to 48 hours'? The trouble in this part of the world is almost every country is run by power-hungry mongrels.

Here endeth the lesson.

[randyun]

Assume Cambodia seeing the Thai military mishandling in the South figures they can at least saber rattle st Thailand. What a load of ridiculous posturing, admittedly both camps have a glorious history of killing unarmed civilians, but both would be out of their depth in an actual war. If it ever came to it though your money would be on Thailand.

You forget to mention Burma, Laos and the street protestors with stick and sling. Thai army are the best in region.

[SamuiJens]

Reminds me of the Johnny Cash song "I got 5mins. to go". Now it's about 5 hours to go. But I 'dout it though, or at least hope It don't happen!

Edited October 14, 2008 by SamuiJens