Cambodia Threatens War With Thailand Within 24 Hours

[JimUK]

A Cambodian soldier examines the body of a colleague who was killed near Preah Vihear temple in Preah Vihear province, some 543 kilometers north of Phnom Penh on October 15, 2008. Thai and Cambodian ceased hostilities on their disputed border October 15 more than two hours after gunfire broke out, according to the Cambodia army. The countries began exchanging fire at 2.20pm and finished at 4.40pm,

Edited October 15, 2008 by JimUK

[bangkokrick]

Terrible pictures Jim. Its so sad that people are prepared to lose their lives over 4.6 Sq KM of land.

RIP.

Cheers, Rick

[jdinasia]

Note --- "sarge" is posting from London

and?

I also found that to be a strange comment sarge, but i think the emphasis is on London-Thaksin level.

Cheers, Rick

It was meant as a remark about some random guy in London's comments about geriatric farang etc .... I found his remarks .. ironic to say the least considering he is nowhere near the place he wants to see other people kicked out of

[Sarge]

Note --- "sarge" is posting from London

and?

I also found that to be a strange comment sarge, but i think the emphasis is on London-Thaksin level.

Cheers, Rick

It was meant as a remark about some random guy in London's comments about geriatric farang etc .... I found his remarks .. ironic to say the least considering he is nowhere near the place he wants to see other people kicked out of

maybe "jdinasia" is a PAD aficionado, his sentential logic makes as sense as Sondhi championing democracy

[JimUK]

Cambodian soldiers sit with arrested 10 Thai soldiers (black uniform) in front of a pagoda near Preah Vihear

Edited October 15, 2008 by JimUK

[JimUK]

Cambodian Soldiers

Thai soldiers

[Foggy Bottom]

Those two sets of photos (casualties and POWs) are interesting because of the uniforms - something is ringing a bell in my head here, but damned if I can remember why.

Looking at the casualty pics, I have a feeling those are paramilitary or irregular troops (maybe just because of the one long hair style) I also note a Khmer Rouge neckscarf

All the Cambodians are wearing a pretty rag tag mix of uniforms - however, at least they're all in full uniforms. I'm trying to remember where that DPM camo pattern originates too - can't decide if it's Chinese or Russian, but I don't think it's a western pattern - at least not one that I can remember seeing on any NATO troops.

Looking at the POW pics - ah that's it - couple of years back, there were pics of black uniform Thai Rangers in the BKK Post & Nation after a gunfight with Burmese drug runners near Mae Hong Son - The Thai Rangers ALL had blue neck scarves like the Cambodian guard at the front of the first picture.

I also remember there was an outcry at the time because the Thai Border Rangers were supposed to have been disbanded and abolished pre-Thaksin due to their atrocities record. It was also said at the time that only the Thai Rangers ever wore black uniforms in the Thai military.

In the last POW picture - note the Thai behind the front guy on the radio - he's using a cell phone .... "No Theerak, I can't take you for Moo Kra Ta tonight, you'll have to wait for the weekend." ?

Usual caveat applies - my missus cooks in aluminium pots and I might have had a memory seizure.

[Plus]

According to the map in the paper Nation today Cambodians fired several mortar rounds at a Thai outpost at the foot of the temple, the pond area, which is clearly in Thai territory, and it's very close to the temple itself (self proclaimed preservationists!).

The gunfights, on the other hand, were in the jungle to the west, clearly the disputed area.

Thailand denies POW claims, and, judging by the pix here, they don't look like they are. Two explanations - it's not from the same clash, or the pix are from a couple of months ago.

[AlKing]

Cambodian side:

Preah Vihear Governor Preab Tan said, "The Thais fired at us first."

- Reuters

Thai side:

Thai Army spokesman Col. Sansern Kaewkamnerd said, "Cambodia opened fire first."

- TNA

It doesn't matter who fire first. An innocent loud sound (like a Thunder) could just starts both side firing the hel_l at each other. Blame who shoot first is so CHILDISH.

Just because you pull the trigger first, does it make you become the aggressor who start the war? That you will be banned the "bad country" who must be condemmed by the whole world.

[jfchandler]

Ya...I also was wondering about that....the photos of the Thai "POWs"......

1. the first posting here was attributed to a Dutch newspaper with a link to the paper's web site.... Yet that link was posted and the photo was on the newspaper web site within just a couple of hours, Thai time, from the time of the actual shooting... If the photo actually was from post-battle yesterday, it wouldn't have showed up on a Dutch newspaper's web site so quickly....

2. What kind of Thai military guys wear uniforms of all black??? I didn't see any blue neck scarfs (rangers???) on the Thai guys in those photos....

[sriracha john]

A Cambodian soldier examines the body of a colleague who was killed near Preah Vihear temple in Preah Vihear province, some 543 kilometers north of Phnom Penh on October 15, 2008. Thai and Cambodian ceased hostilities on their disputed border October 15 more than two hours after gunfire broke out, according to the Cambodia army. The countries began exchanging fire at 2.20pm and finished at 4.40pm,

Cambodian soldiers sit with arrested 10 Thai soldiers (black uniform) in front of a pagoda near Preah Vihear

Cambodian Soldiers

Thai soldiers

Please post the source of these photos. Thank you.

Edited October 16, 2008 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

further report of POW's...and a Thai denial... and more "he said, she said"....

Costly battle

Here are details of Wednesday's border clash. Casualty toll: Seven Thai soldiers wounded, with 10 missing and believed captured by Cambodian forces. Cambodia admits to two dead, two wounded. The Thai army has brought in 500 reinforcements and heavy weapons and says it is ready for battle, while the Foreign Ministry claims it is prepared to take Cambodia to the United Nations and the International Court of Justice over sovereignty of the disputed border area near Preah Vihear temple. Cambodia said it captured 10 Thai troops, a claim denied by Thai military officials. The fighting has prompted the Foreign Ministry to urge Thais in Cambodia to leave the country. Thai Airways International has prepared large aircraft to evacuate all Thais in Cambodia if the situation worsens. There are about 1,000 Thais in Phnom Penh and about 500 in Siem Reap, according to the ministry. Second Army Commander Lt-Gen Wibulsak Neepal said Cambodia fired first into Thai bases, prompting Thai troops to retaliate. Cambodian Foreign Minster Hor Namhong said in Phnom Penh that "the gunfire between Cambodia and Thailand was in Cambodia's territory. Thai troops opened fire at our troops first."

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=131442

Edited October 16, 2008 by sriracha john

[GungaDin]

Any reports from visa runners from Poipet on border closures, yet?

[Thaddeus]

The jets are flying again and the noises I heard yesterday was gun fire, but it was just the local army boys 'practicing'

[Moonrakers]

Does Cambodia have any anti-air defence?

[bangkokrick]

Modern conflict near ancient ruins

A long-running border dispute between Thailand and Cambodia has just flared up, with soldiers exchanging shots for the first time. The BBC's South East Asia correspondent Jonathan Head looks at what caused this escalation of tension.

Rest of the story

Cheers, Rick

[Farma]

Looking at the POW pics - ah that's it - couple of years back, there were pics of black uniform Thai Rangers in the BKK Post & Nation after a gunfight with Burmese drug runners near Mae Hong Son - The Thai Rangers ALL had blue neck scarves like the Cambodian guard at the front of the first picture.

Gaz I believe the local name for them is Tahaan Praan. They’ve been in there since this flared up earlier in the year.

More pics in this earlier thread. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thai-Troops-...html&st=100

[Samuian]

The Nation tries to bring a bit more clarity through insight into this sad dispute:

"The Cambodian government put a lot of effort into the The site has been closed since the listing and has not earned Cambodia one single tourist dollar.listing of the Hindu temple of Preah Vihear as a World Heritage site. The Khmer sanctuary was expected to welcome a fresh surge of visitors after Unesco accepted it for listing earlier this year. Other World Heritage sites have enjoyed an immediate boost in tourism, but the listing of Preah Vihear has brought Cambodia no more than a bitter row with Thailand, on whose border the revered ruin sits.

In 1962 the International Court of Justice ruled Preah Vihear belonged to Cambodia, but easy access can only be made from Thailand. Phnom Penh needs space to build its own route to the temple, but unfortunately the area it needs is also claimed by Thailand.

Military occupation will not secure the area permanently. Only precise demarcation of the boundary between the two countries can divide the two sides, and that requires advanced technology and negotiations.

The two countries have not sat down for talks about their common border at Preah Vihear for some time, because of internal political difficulties.

For many reasons, Thailand remains unable to activate the Joint Commission on Demarcation of Land Boundaries (JBC). The present Constitution requires the Foreign Ministry to obtain a parliamentary mandate before commencing negotiations on boundaries.

The ministry has already submitted the framework of negotiation to the Parliament, but parliamentarians have hardly been in the mood to read it. This week's session of the House of Representatives was postponed following the recent bloodshed.

The JBC is normally co-chaired by a deputy foreign minister, but Foreign Minister Sompong Amornwiwat has no deputy. He must assign one of his advisers to the job and told his Cambodian counterpart, Hor Namhong, on Monday that he would name a Thai co-chairman within a few weeks.

Hun Sen cannot wait that long, because his government is required to submit an administrative plan for Preah Vihear to the World Heritage Committee by next February. The plan cannot be completed as long as the boundary between Thailand and Cambodia remains a hotly contested issue."

Link:

Edited October 16, 2008 by Samuian

[sriracha john]

a dated and sourced POW photo...

Wern Champasak (center), Thailand's chief of border communication, sits with a Cambodian soldier after surrendering at Sekha Kirisvarak pagoda near the disputed 900-year-old Preah Vihear temple in Preah Vihear province, 543 km (337 miles) north of Phnom Penh October 15, 2008. Cambodia's army captured 10 Thai soldiers on Wednesday after a battle along a disputed stretch of border near the 900-year-old Preah Vihear temple, Foreign Minister Hor Namhong said.

REUTERS

[jamesjdaly]

.........Thailand's chief of border communication, sits with a Cambodian soldier after surrendering at Sekha Kirisvarak pagoda........

Help me find my face. I have lost it somewhere!!

[TAWP]

Those two sets of photos (casualties and POWs) are interesting because of the uniforms - something is ringing a bell in my head here, but damned if I can remember why.

Looking at the casualty pics, I have a feeling those are paramilitary or irregular troops (maybe just because of the one long hair style) I also note a Khmer Rouge neckscarf

All the Cambodians are wearing a pretty rag tag mix of uniforms - however, at least they're all in full uniforms. I'm trying to remember where that DPM camo pattern originates too - can't decide if it's Chinese or Russian, but I don't think it's a western pattern - at least not one that I can remember seeing on any NATO troops.

Looking at the POW pics - ah that's it - couple of years back, there were pics of black uniform Thai Rangers in the BKK Post & Nation after a gunfight with Burmese drug runners near Mae Hong Son - The Thai Rangers ALL had blue neck scarves like the Cambodian guard at the front of the first picture.

In the photos are normal US woodland, British DPM and a one-colored uniform that might be local.

[jdinasia]

A Cambodian soldier examines the body of a colleague who was killed near Preah Vihear temple in Preah Vihear province, some 543 kilometers north of Phnom Penh on October 15, 2008. Thai and Cambodian ceased hostilities on their disputed border October 15 more than two hours after gunfire broke out, according to the Cambodia army. The countries began exchanging fire at 2.20pm and finished at 4.40pm,

Cambodian soldiers sit with arrested 10 Thai soldiers (black uniform) in front of a pagoda near Preah Vihear

Cambodian Soldiers

Thai soldiers

Please post the source of these photos. Thank you.

They seem to be coming from here

http://www.cambodia.org/blogs/editorials/2...acked-at-3.html

complete with the text

(I sent him a PM late last night before he posted more telling him that he should give his source to prevent copyright infringement ..... no reply, but google came back with the link above)

[richabb1]

a dated and sourced POW photo...

Wern Champasak (center), Thailand's chief of border communication, sits with a Cambodian soldier after surrendering at Sekha Kirisvarak pagoda near the disputed 900-year-old Preah Vihear temple in Preah Vihear province, 543 km (337 miles) north of Phnom Penh October 15, 2008. Cambodia's army captured 10 Thai soldiers on Wednesday after a battle along a disputed stretch of border near the 900-year-old Preah Vihear temple, Foreign Minister Hor Namhong said.

REUTERS

could be a local of Ubon with a surname like that.

[Bangyai]

The Nation tries to bring a bit more clarity through insight into this sad dispute:

"The Cambodian government put a lot of effort into the The site has been closed since the listing and has not earned Cambodia one single tourist dollar.listing of the Hindu temple of Preah Vihear as a World Heritage site. The Khmer sanctuary was expected to welcome a fresh surge of visitors after Unesco accepted it for listing earlier this year. Other World Heritage sites have enjoyed an immediate boost in tourism, but the listing of Preah Vihear has brought Cambodia no more than a bitter row with Thailand, on whose border the revered ruin sits.

In 1962 the International Court of Justice ruled Preah Vihear belonged to Cambodia, but easy access can only be made from Thailand. Phnom Penh needs space to build its own route to the temple, but unfortunately the area it needs is also claimed by Thailand.

issue."

Link:

Again, you would expect a newspaper to be better informed and be aware of Cambodias road access, albeit that it runs through disputed territory. Cambodians wishing to visit the temple have never had to put one foot on Thai territory as they have always used the stairs leading up there. This kind of misinformation does little to enhance the Nations credibility.

[Plus]

Bangyai, you said yourself that they built the road across the disputed territory. Thais didn't care, you right, they didn't care when Cambodians built a new pagoda there, too. Reportedly Thais invested in building a new road to access the whole region. That was very friendly and neighbourly by any standard.

Now Cambodians want to establish full control over the disputed territories. Give them a hand they bite off whole arm.

Madman across the border, as Hun Sen was portrayed in Nation's cartoon today.

"New road" I mentioned earlier is actually a cable car project - the climb is apparently too hard for tourists there.

[Rajah]

More lost faces (without toys) here:

http://preahvihear.com/

[TaiKai]

There is no such thing as a good war. maybe time for you too head back home and get your head out of the darkness

I am quite glad to read this from a person who should know better than the rest of us. Also thank you for helping to break up encrusted thoughts and prejudices in my own head regarding US-American military staff.

[wileycoyote]

I hope that they can come some resolution at the conference table

[AlKing]

Give them a hand they bite off whole arm.

Pardon me. Siam never give Khmer any SHlT. Khmer won it fair and square at the ICJ. Siam is such a bad looser, now they want to go to war over 1.8 sp miles of waste Jungle. The Khmer should not have taken prisoners. The Simese never did; two Khmer is already dead.

[sjaak327]

Did anyone see the rather sensationalist front page of the nation's website this morning ?