Jayman Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 (edited) Of maybe it's gold that is constant in value and it's the currencies that are going up or down. In a sense that is true if we say the purchasing power of gold is more constant than currencies I know folks hate it when someone compares prices of a gallon of gas in gold or other things but it is hard to ignore the fact that it has been very stable in comparison to currencies. Bread is a interesting one too. Because for over a hundred years you could always buy between 300 & 388 loaves of bread for one ounce of gold. Can any currency make that claim? But as always there will be folks gold does not sit well with. Fortunately there is the option for folks who do not like gold to not purchase it. That will not stop them from negatively chiming in constantly but everyone needs a hobby I guess. Totally wrong of course, but then gold bugs live in their own little bubble. Bullion hasn’t kept pace with the cost of bread, fuel or medical care. In 1980, gold hit a then-record $873 an ounce. In 2009 dollars, that would have been $2,287 and according to the U.S. Labor Department’s inflation calculator for that year. Not to mention the yo-yo ride the last 12 months. What does that mean exactly? Before they were devalued to today's low levels? I've never understood the idea of talking about the value of dollars in a different time than right here and now. When I look the dates on my money it seems I have many 2009 dollars but for some reason the bank values them the same as the ones printed this year. Am I being ripped off? yoshiwara, will you buy my 2009 dollars for more than a 2006 or 2011 dollar? If so, please PM me. In fact, here in Thailand anything older than 1990 usd has a lower value to the ones changing them to THB. Edited September 22, 2012 by Jayman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayman Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 (edited) Why let BS stand uncontested? Well if your that bored have at it. As I said everyone needs a hobby. While your at it perhaps you could post a comment on the site with the article you linked. After all anyone with even the most basic understanding of metallurgy would know what they claim is not possible. Hollow out? Hilarious They hollowed out that bar leaving that thin shell shown in the pictures with stamps & numbers intact then filled with tungsten & sealed it all up What makes it so devious is a real gold bar is purchased with the serial numbers and papers, then it is hollowed out, the gold is sold, the tungsten is put in, then the bar is closed up. That is a sophisticated operation. Possibly someone coated a Tungsten bar & re-stamped it. But hollow out & yet leave that thin shell intact? go get em tiger, Don't let BS stand your work is not complete. Actually.. it is quite possible although I know it seems difficult. I was sent and article on that when it first broke as well. Does it actually mater how they pulled it off? The fact remains that tungsten filled gold bars and coins are being passed around and this is nothing new at all. http://www.tungsten-alloy.com/en/alloy11.htm Edited September 22, 2012 by Jayman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayman Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 (edited) Oh No Moe, Say it isn't so! Germany Eyes Gold Standard The report then goes on to assert that gold is misunderstood and doesn’t really belong in the basket of “commodities” used by so many economists. Gold is money, according to the Deutsche Bank. Says it: “We would go further however, and argue that gold could be characterised as ‘good’ money as opposed to ‘bad’ money which would be represented by many of today’s fiat currencies.” It refers to Gresham’s Law and suggests “the undervalued money (good) will leave the country or disappear from circulation into hoards, while the overvalued money (bad) will flood into circulation.” http://www.nysun.com...standard/87997/ I hope one of the armchair experts can come and debunk all this madness. Hurry please.. I uploaded the report from the Deutsche Bank in pdf form here Edited September 23, 2012 by Jayman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Oh No Moe, Say it isn't so! Germany Eyes Gold Standard The report then goes on to assert that gold is misunderstood and doesn’t really belong in the basket of “commodities” used by so many economists. Gold is money, according to the Deutsche Bank. Says it: “We would go further however, and argue that gold could be characterised as ‘good’ money as opposed to ‘bad’ money which would be represented by many of today’s fiat currencies.” It refers to Gresham’s Law and suggests “the undervalued money (good) will leave the country or disappear from circulation into hoards, while the overvalued money (bad) will flood into circulation.” http://www.nysun.com...standard/87997/ I hope one of the armchair experts can come and debunk all this madness. Hurry please.. I uploaded the report from the Deutsche Bank in pdf form here there's nothing to debunk or to challenge except that the writer mixes up a German bank with Germany with a misleading headline "Germany Eyes Gold Standard". nota bene: Deutsche Bank is not Germany, Goldman Sachs is not the U.S., UBS is not Switzerland, BNP Paribas is not France, HSBC is not U.K. and Nomura is not Japan. while the analysts of DB present some very valid points they mention at the same time "while we believe a gold standard could work, we remain skeptical that it will be considered." my personal view is that a gold standard will not work because the banksters, and that includes central banks (evidence history) will find ways to cheat those who are made to believe that their paper money is safe and protected from inflation by something which cannot be audited. on a side note... should the gold standard be introduced the price of Wolfram (Tungsten) will skyrocket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudhopper Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 nota bene: Deutsche Bank is not Germany, Goldman Sachs is not the U.S., UBS is not Switzerland, BNP Paribas is not France, HSBC is not U.K. and Nomura is not Japan. They are the entities that have their way when the rules are made however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 nota bene: Deutsche Bank is not Germany, Goldman Sachs is not the U.S., UBS is not Switzerland, BNP Paribas is not France, HSBC is not U.K. and Nomura is not Japan. They are the entities that have their way when the rules are made however. that does not justify the headline "Germany Eyes Gold Standard" ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayman Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 I agree that many times headlines are just to grab the readers attention and many times are very misleading. Calling Deutsche Bank "Germany" is very inaccurate indeed. But, putting aside the stupid news report, what about the actual report written and published by Deutsche Bank? They are the ones saying gold is money and in fact "good" money compared to the "bad" fiat money. That is what I was looking for comment on. I posted a link to the entire report from Deutsche Bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 I agree that many times headlines are just to grab the readers attention and many times are very misleading. Calling Deutsche Bank "Germany" is very inaccurate indeed. But, putting aside the stupid news report, what about the actual report written and published by Deutsche Bank? They are the ones saying gold is money and in fact "good" money compared to the "bad" fiat money. That is what I was looking for comment on. I posted a link to the entire report from Deutsche Bank. yes, "they say" but talk is cheap. presently my "bad money" enjoys a better acceptance than any "gold good money" when booking a flight, buying car or buying groceries in a supermarket. i also doubt that anybody can enter any Deutsche Bank branch with a bag of nuggets and open an account. the irony is that i can buy with "bad money" any amount of "gold good money" as long as i have an ample "bad" suppply. please explain where's the logic concerning bad and good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 now waiting patiently for more comments on bad and good money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russianrobert Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 I don't wish to hijack this thread but I have a question: I want to buy a silver ETF in pounds sterling. Anyone know if this is possible? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayman Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 now waiting patiently for more comments on bad and good money These terms are those of Deutsche Bank and not me. I was hoping you could help me understand the report put out by Deutsche Bank that defines good money and bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midas Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 I agree that many times headlines are just to grab the readers attention and many times are very misleading. Calling Deutsche Bank "Germany" is very inaccurate indeed. But, putting aside the stupid news report, what about the actual report written and published by Deutsche Bank? They are the ones saying gold is money and in fact "good" money compared to the "bad" fiat money. That is what I was looking for comment on. I posted a link to the entire report from Deutsche Bank. yes, "they say" but talk is cheap. presently my "bad money" enjoys a better acceptance than any "gold good money" when booking a flight, buying car or buying groceries in a supermarket. i also doubt that anybody can enter any Deutsche Bank branch with a bag of nuggets and open an account. the irony is that i can buy with "bad money" any amount of "gold good money" as long as i have an ample "bad" suppply. please explain where's the logic concerning bad and good. At the beginning of November, 2008, the inflation rate in Zimbabwe was calculated to be at 516 quintillion percent (516,000,000,000,000,000,000%)which was a monthly inflation rate of13.2 billion percent. that sounds like bad money to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 now waiting patiently for more comments on bad and good money These terms are those of Deutsche Bank and not me. I was hoping you could help me understand the report put out by Deutsche Bank that defines good money and bad. how can i help you to understand something which neither i nor most probably the bank anal who wrote the report understands? i am getting daily tons of "anal" reports from half a dozen multinational banks out of which 50% contradict each other no matter what asset is concerned. if these bankers and their anals were so clever as they pretend they are then why did most of them (and that includes Deutsche Bank) suffer billions of losses recently? google the last published balance sheets of Deutsche Bank and try to find a positive Gold position somewhere. you won't find "good", only "bad money". and that's the reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 At the beginning of November, 2008, the inflation rate in Zimbabwe was calculated to be at 516 quintillion percent (516,000,000,000,000,000,000%)which was a monthly inflation rate of13.2 billion percent. that sounds like bad money to me yawn... none of us live in Zimbabwe although i liked Harare a lot in olden times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayman Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 now waiting patiently for more comments on bad and good money These terms are those of Deutsche Bank and not me. I was hoping you could help me understand the report put out by Deutsche Bank that defines good money and bad. how can i help you to understand something which neither i nor most probably the bank anal who wrote the report understands? i am getting daily tons of "anal" reports from half a dozen multinational banks out of which 50% contradict each other no matter what asset is concerned. if these bankers and their anals were so clever as they pretend they are then why did most of them (and that includes Deutsche Bank) suffer billions of losses recently? google the last published balance sheets of Deutsche Bank and try to find a positive Gold position somewhere. you won't find "good", only "bad money". and that's the reality. fair enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccw Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 I guess maybe they mean gold is good money since its not subject to the same dilutions as fiat debt based money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccw Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Currencies will steadily, or maybe quite dramatically, devalue against a basket of commodities and food stuffs I think. Simply put there isn't a whole lot more physical oil or gold appearing in the world but governments are actively trying to weaken currencies relative to one another. Food stuffs will leap in price over next few months and years I think as the extreme weather continues and feed for animals becomes more expensive. Does anyone know how I can bet with leverage on a rise in the price of pork? An etf maybe? Cheers Don't forget about the demand side mccw. How will all these high prices actually be paid by people who are in debt up to their eyeballs, the unemployed and those facing it, and those stuck in crap low-paying jobs, all those on fixed pensions, relying on interest income and transfer payments of all types etc. Zero or negative interest rates can only survive in an environment of deflation. Did you say ETF? How will all these high prices be paid for you ask. Basically I think the essentials of life, like rent, fuel, food etc will increase and keep increasing taking out more and more of people's disposable income, until west resembles what was is now middle or lower middle income countries, maybe even worse thanks to the welfare state, tax system and ageing populations. Simply put everyone gets poorer. There will always be demand for the essentials until at the point where income is not sufficient and then they must choose what to do with out be it still doesn't mean the price must come down; if taking pork as an example - the feed costs too much because of drought, the pork costs a fortune and most can't afford it, the price can not come down , its impossible and if they can't sell it farmers will just produce less or go out of business adding to the scarcity and price. I've also been thinking about my property business and how the value will hold up in this stagflationary environment. I've stettled on the scenario that despite a lower number of individuals looking to purchase homes I think increasingly investors looking for decent returns on real assets will fill the gap and in fact boost prices in the 5-10 year term or longer (in areas with good returns). For example many properties yield 8-12% , a decent stock dividend could be 4-6 so still a good 20-50% price increase possible on those properties is my reckoning. Ultimately I expect society will move to a tenant working class and a very small middle and higher property owning class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayman Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 uh oh.. looks like more fake gold bars are turning up. http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/fake_gold_hits_nyc_ECXVP5WQOvYwMVTi8CoHRL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccw Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Gold bullion coins from dealers who get them directly from the mints should be ok. Like goldline.co.uk or guernseymint.co.uk Coins from the most recent series I mean. Guernsey also take bars directly from metalor I think rather than "second hand" ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midas Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 (edited) I wonder how gold would react and the global economy in general if we get $5 and $6 dollar a gallon fuel ( the figure Andrew Lipow, president of Lipow Oil Associates foresees ) following an Israel / Iran attack? as of yesterday it's getting harder to choose which country will be the first to launch a pre-emptive strike........ " Iran could launch a pre-emptive strike on Israel if it was sure the Jewish state were preparing to attack it, a senior commander of its elite Revolutionary Guards was quoted as saying on Sunday." http://www.indianexp...d-to-world-w... Edited September 24, 2012 by midas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudhopper Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 " Iran could launch a pre-emptive strike on Israel if it was sure the Jewish state were preparing to attack it, a senior commander of its elite Revolutionary Guards was quoted as saying on Sunday." Well good luck with that strategy commander. With China getting a shitload of their oil from Iran the West is going to have to think long and hard before they monger another war. Anyway I'da thought the price of gold wouldn't be as affected as oil if it happens, which I doubt. But you never know the military-industrial-financial complex is calling the shots ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 some "senior commander of its elite Revolutionary Guards" seems to ingest illegal substances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midas Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 some "senior commander of its elite Revolutionary Guards" seems to ingest illegal substances. I am more worried about Netanyahu and his immediate circle who need to ingest some substances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 some "senior commander of its elite Revolutionary Guards" seems to ingest illegal substances. I am more worried about Netanyahu and his immediate circle who need to ingest some substances bingo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudhopper Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I don't know if this guy is on Naam's list of hysterical commentators but he's one of my favorites - Gold commentary is near the end if you want to FFW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uptheos Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Where is gold going? Back to the gold shop as soon as you have boarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I don't know if this guy is on Naam's list of hysterical commentators but he's one of my favorites - Gold commentary is near the end if you want to FFW. what kind of advice has he got to offer which could benefit you and me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCA Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I don't know if this guy is on Naam's list of hysterical commentators but he's one of my favorites - Gold commentary is near the end if you want to FFW. does she strip or shall I skip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudhopper Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I don't know if this guy is on Naam's list of hysterical commentators but he's one of my favorites - Gold commentary is near the end if you want to FFW. what kind of advice has he got to offer which could benefit you and me? I don't know; I don't go into the blogosphere for advice. I follow CA though, if only to watch LL's hemline slide into 3rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midas Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Chinese Firm Promotes & Sells Gold Plated Tungsten Online! http://www.silverdoctors.com/chinatungsten-online-chinese-firm-promotes-gold-plated-tungsten/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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