Where Is Gold Going In This Market

[Jayman]

Naam forced to pay in Gold for dog food

Put under pressure by dog food vendors Naam is forced to trade Gold for dog food and other needed goods for the simple reason that Naam, like other dog lovers, has only a finite amount of cash in his wallet. So when Naam runs out of cash he is forced to exchange Gold for cash which is unpleasant but unavoidable.

This sharp and undebatable conclusion is based on the assumption that Naam is as stupid as the Iranians. The Iranians are too stupid to sell their crude oil for needed goods and Naam is too stupid to go to his bank and fill up his wallet with cash.

http://www.naams_nonsense.org

You miss the point entirely.. it's not to trade your physical gold for goods. It's to value the goods in terms of gold to facilitate trade. Gold, unlike fiat currency, cannot be created out of thin air making it's value much more stable as a price of goods than fiat currency. The reason we have inflation is not cause the value of goods has increased but rather the value of your fiat currency has decreased. Purchasing power in terms of gold has remained relatively unchanged.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Jayman

[Naam]

I think you are missing the point of their argument here Naam and that's that if things were priced in terms of gold (a gold standard) then it would make trade more stable. As it is now, Oil is priced in USD (as per OPEC).

Jayman, what i never miss is the bla-bla which is published in websites from people who have an agenda. for payments it does not matter in what currency crude is priced! should crude be priced tomorrow in cowrie shells the buyer can still pay for crude by any fungible means, e.g. lambs wool, orange juice, soy beans, etc.

all what he has to do is supply the equivalent value of the cowrie shell price in lambs wool, orange juice, soy beans or whatever. period!

by the way, OPEC's share is less than 40% of the world's crude trade.

[Naam]

The reason we have inflation is not cause the value of goods has increased but rather the value of your fiat currency has decreased.

let me tell you a secret Jayman, but please don't tell others! i started to invest "real" money (in terms of size) about 3½ decades ago. since then the value "my fiat currency" holdings has not decreased but increased exponentially and beaten Gold hands down.

however, i admit that Gold has provided better results then "my fiat currency" during the last half a dozen years. but that is irrelevant because personally i consider only tangible long term results as important.

[Jayman]

The reason we have inflation is not cause the value of goods has increased but rather the value of your fiat currency has decreased.

let me tell you a secret Jayman, but please don't tell others! i started to invest "real" money (in terms of size) about 3½ decades ago. since then the value "my fiat currency" holdings has not decreased but increased exponentially and beaten Gold hands down.

however, i admit that Gold has provided better results then "my fiat currency" during the last half a dozen years. but that is irrelevant because personally i consider only tangible long term results as important.

Once again you are comparing apples to oranges. You "invested" is the key to this. Had you of burried the fiat cash in your back yard then it would NOT have maintained anywhere near the value of equivalent in gold.

If you "invested" the gold just as you did fiat, then you would have seen the same returns on your investment. So are you comparing "invested" paper to stored gold? Apples and oranges mate.

[churchill]

Prices took a turn down when this was announced ... Perhaps negative for gold but positive for silver ..

India Budget 2012-13

'Much against the wishes of the bullion and jewllery industry in the country, India’s Finance Minister, Pranab Mukherjee has launched more measures to curb the spending on gold consumption in the country by raising customs duty for gold bars and coins of certain categroies, platinum and gold ore in the Union Budget for 2012-13 presented to Parliament on Friday morning.

Customs duty is to be imposed on coloured gem stones. However, silver jewellery will now be fully exempt from excise duty. '.... cont..

http://www.commodityonline.com/news/india-budget-2012-13-gold-jewellery-to-cost-more-silver-prices-may-fall-46765-3-46766.html

[Naam]

Once again you are comparing apples to oranges. You "invested" is the key to this. Had you of burried the fiat cash in your back yard then it would NOT have maintained anywhere near the value of equivalent in gold.

If you "invested" the gold just as you did fiat, then you would have seen the same returns on your investment. So are you comparing "invested" paper to stored gold? Apples and oranges mate.

i admit there might be some brain-amputated investors who bury their fiat money in their backyards, but i assure you that i do not belong to this category moreover, my comparison is straight and justified as i can walk any time in a gold shop and buy whatever quantity of gold i please if i have and spend enough of that "worthless fiat currency".

on a side note... even though i am trying hard, i do have problems to comment on ridiculous statements like the one "had you buried the fiat cash...". there is also no alternative to the expression ridiculous when it concerns gold bugs flogging the dead horse "fiat".

the latin word "fiat" in this context means "there will be / shall be..." value. but the naked fact remains that there IS VALUE because "fiat" HAS VALUE and can buy anything of value whether it is a bag of potatoes, a Ferrari or tons of gold bars if one possesses enough of "fiat".

and now pretty please... all you resident (and non-resident) gold bugs listen to me! weekend is around the corner. i want to relax and spend some quality time with the family, i.e. wife and dogs. please don't bore me to death with "just wait till next week, next month, next year, next decade and you will see the value of your "fiat" evaporate."

khrap!

[Jayman]

Once again you are comparing apples to oranges. You "invested" is the key to this. Had you of burried the fiat cash in your back yard then it would NOT have maintained anywhere near the value of equivalent in gold.

If you "invested" the gold just as you did fiat, then you would have seen the same returns on your investment. So are you comparing "invested" paper to stored gold? Apples and oranges mate.

i admit there might be some brain-amputated investors who bury their fiat money in their backyards, but i assure you that i do not belong to this category moreover, my comparison is straight and justified as i can walk any time in a gold shop and buy whatever quantity of gold i please if i have and spend enough of that "worthless fiat currency".

on a side note... even though i am trying hard, i do have problems to comment on ridiculous statements like the one "had you buried the fiat cash...". there is also no alternative to the expression ridiculous when it concerns gold bugs flogging the dead horse "fiat".

the latin word "fiat" in this context means "there will be / shall be..." value. but the naked fact remains that there IS VALUE because "fiat" HAS VALUE and can buy anything of value whether it is a bag of potatoes, a Ferrari or tons of gold bars if one possesses enough of "fiat".

and now pretty please... all you resident (and non-resident) gold bugs listen to me! weekend is around the corner. i want to relax and spend some quality time with the family, i.e. wife and dogs. please don't bore me to death with "just wait till next week, next month, next year, next decade and you will see the value of your "fiat" evaporate."

khrap!

Ok.. Mr Naan.. god of all things gold.... Teacher of latin to the masses... Fiat currency is called fiat currency because of fiat decree that it has value. It is not backed by anything. Unlike when the USD was backed by gold. Now, fiat currency is backed only by fiat decree and cannot be taken to the bank and exchanged for a set amount of gold/silver as it once was. Sure, you can go into a gold shop and buy as much gold as you want with it but you will have noticed, since you're such a smart guy, that the price is not stable and has been going up rather swiftly over the years. When I talk about bury you fiat currency I really mean, store it in the bank. If you took your paper and put it in the bank for 10 years and put you gold in teh bank for 10 years which comes out being worth more?

No one is doubting your owe so mighty and great investing skills but that is neither here nor there with the buying power of fiat paper compared to gold. Gold is not a good investment, it is a stole of value. You will be much better off storing your wealth in gold/silver than in fiat paper. If you have the midas touch and can turn paper into gold then that is revenue earned and nothing to do with maintain value on something.

Anyone that would rather hold paper than gold is a fool. You can see in your lifetime how much less you can buy with your paper. How many candy bars could you buy for $1 when you were a kid? The same amount of candy bars as you could buy with $1 of gold (the value when you were a kid). Now take that same $1 bill today and how many candy bars can you buy? Take the same piece of gold from when you were a kid and how many candy bars you think it will buy you today? That is my point of might Thor.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Jayman

[churchill]

and so ....

Central Bank Balance Sheets Put Gold at $1900

http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/chris-puplava/analysis-gold-oversold-and-undervalued-255-per-ounce

Edited March 16, 2012 by churchill

[Naam]

Sure, you can go into a gold shop and buy as much gold as you want with it but you will have noticed, since you're such a smart guy, that the price is not stable and has been going up rather swiftly over the years.

the reason why the price of Gold fluctuates is that it has no intrinsic value but is dependent on offer and demand like any other commodity. if Churchill, Flying and Mrs Naam buy = demand = price goes up, nobody buying = no demand = price goes down.

in other words, the value of Gold is as much "fiat" as anything else. as simple a that!

by the way, getting personal by using expressions like "smart guy / teacher of latin to the masses et al" is quite normal when a participant in a discussion has weak or no valid arguments.

[lannarebirth]

and so ....

Central Bank Balance Sheets Put Gold at $1900

http://www.financial...d-255-per-ounce

The price of Gold may shoot to the stratosphere tomorrow, I don't know, but did you even read that article? Crap accounting and crap journalism.

[churchill]

'buy = demand = price goes up, nobody buying = no demand = price goes down.'

and supply ..

Edited March 16, 2012 by churchill

[churchill]

and so ....

Central Bank Balance Sheets Put Gold at $1900

http://www.financial...d-255-per-ounce

The price of Gold may shoot to the stratosphere tomorrow, I don't know, but did you even read that article? Crap accounting and crap journalism.

Please point us in the right direction without crap charts ....

[Jayman]

Sure, you can go into a gold shop and buy as much gold as you want with it but you will have noticed, since you're such a smart guy, that the price is not stable and has been going up rather swiftly over the years.

the reason why the price of Gold fluctuates is that it has no intrinsic value but is dependent on offer and demand like any other commodity. if Churchill, Flying and Mrs Naam buy = demand = price goes up, nobody buying = no demand = price goes down.

in other words, the value of Gold is as much "fiat" as anything else. as simple a that!

by the way, getting personal by using expressions like "smart guy / teacher of latin to the masses et al" is quite normal when a participant in a discussion has weak or no valid arguments.

I use those words smart guy and teacher of latin to the masses as you come off as very sarcastic and condescending in your posts.

I gave you my arguments and you would rather focus on the words I used. The value of paper money in your lifetime has decreased dramatically because the supply of paper money has increased dramatically. They call it inflation when your paper buys less but it's just devaluation of the paper itself. Gold on the other hand cannot be created in unlimited amounts. It's also consumed in industry. Comparing it to another commodity that can be created on a term basis is not a fair comparison. Gold has had intrinsic value from the beginning of man wondering the planet. It is the oldest store of value. That you think that some printed paper made by man has some value other than what they tell is is the scam.

"Gold is the money of Kings"

"Silver is the money of the people."

"Paper is the money of slaves."

Do you really think that gold has no value and that and it's just some commodity? Why do ALL the sovereigns and central banks keep it in mass reserves? Why not keep diamonds or corn?

Edited March 16, 2012 by Jayman

[Jayman]

and so ....

Central Bank Balance Sheets Put Gold at $1900

http://www.financial...d-255-per-ounce

The price of Gold may shoot to the stratosphere tomorrow, I don't know, but did you even read that article? Crap accounting and crap journalism.

Please point us in the right direction without crap charts ....

It's now occurred to me why I never really took much part in this thread before. The question of this topic cannot be answered with a simple up or down. Gold is tied very much into the world money supply regardless of all those out there that try and convince you otherwise. Even Ben Bernanke will tell you gold has no value but yet his office keeps gold on the account and not oil. He talks about oil all the time but you will NEVER hear Ben talk about Gold unless directly asked.

This has been going on for so long that people are fooled. "Follow the yellow brick road" and the "man behind the curtain" was not just some made up fairy tale. Gold has ruled the world for many many generations and that continues to this day. It is only in the best interest of those that control the money supply (Central banks) to keep the price of gold/silver as low as possible. They do everything they can to keep the prices down. Where does gold want to go with all this QE and reckless spending of paper... UP. Where do the money creators what it to go.. DOWN. There are big forces controlling the price of gold and that is the struggle you see in the price fluctuations. The price of Gold rose more while all the banks were selling it. How is that proper supply and demand? They are the largest demand... not the consumers/retails market. The central banks are the largest holders of physical gold. If they are selling how is it the price was exploding? Now they are buying and the price is going down. How is that possibly explained with supply and demand theory? A few years back when the price of silver was dropping hard you could not buy any in the stores. They were completely out of stock and you had to wait months to take delivery on physical silver. Yet the prices were dropping. Yet you couldn't actually buy any. Hmmm.. what's going on here? The premiums were going through the roof cause what little silver shops had they didn't want to sell for the low market price as they couldn't go to the market and replace it with fresh silver.

The market is completely manipulated by the central banks. They keep it as low as possible to fool us. It is a disguise to the huge inflation that is coming as result of all the QE (read.. money creation). Gold/silver want to go up.. Very much they do. In the long wun it will keep going up and the value of fiat paper goes down. No question. In the short/mid term there is no telling at what lengths the banks will go to to keep the price suppressed.

[churchill]

and so ....

Central Bank Balance Sheets Put Gold at $1900

http://www.financial...d-255-per-ounce

The price of Gold may shoot to the stratosphere tomorrow, I don't know, but did you even read that article? Crap accounting and crap journalism.

Please point us in the right direction without crap charts ....

It's now occurred to me why I never really took much part in this thread before. The question of this topic cannot be answered with a simple up or down. Gold is tied very much into the world money supply regardless of all those out there that try and convince you otherwise. Even Ben Bernanke will tell you gold has no value but yet his office keeps gold on the account and not oil. He talks about oil all the time but you will NEVER hear Ben talk about Gold unless directly asked.

This has been going on for so long that people are fooled. "Follow the yellow brick road" and the "man behind the curtain" was not just some made up fairy tale. Gold has ruled the world for many many generations and that continues to this day. It is only in the best interest of those that control the money supply (Central banks) to keep the price of gold/silver as low as possible. They do everything they can to keep the prices down. Where does gold want to go with all this QE and reckless spending of paper... UP. Where do the money creators what it to go.. DOWN. There are big forces controlling the price of gold and that is the struggle you see in the price fluctuations. The price of Gold rose more while all the banks were selling it. How is that proper supply and demand? They are the largest demand... not the consumers/retails market. The central banks are the largest holders of physical gold. If they are selling how is it the price was exploding? Now they are buying and the price is going down. How is that possibly explained with supply and demand theory? A few years back when the price of silver was dropping hard you could not buy any in the stores. They were completely out of stock and you had to wait months to take delivery on physical silver. Yet the prices were dropping. Yet you couldn't actually buy any. Hmmm.. what's going on here? The premiums were going through the roof cause what little silver shops had they didn't want to sell for the low market price as they couldn't go to the market and replace it with fresh silver.

The market is completely manipulated by the central banks. They keep it as low as possible to fool us. It is a disguise to the huge inflation that is coming as result of all the QE (read.. money creation). Gold/silver want to go up.. Very much they do. In the long wun it will keep going up and the value of fiat paper goes down. No question. In the short/mid term there is no telling at what lengths the banks will go to to keep the price suppressed.

Yes ... That sums it up ....

Edited March 16, 2012 by churchill

[Jayman]

and here is the definition of fiat as it applies to paper currency.

https://www.google.c...q=define%3Afiat

fi·at/ˈfēät/

Noun:

• A formal authorization or proposition; a decree.
  
• An arbitrary order.
  

to say that gold is fiat is just silly.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Fiat_money

http://www.kwaves.com/fiat.htm

on a final note.. you don't have to go far to understand how closely tied to money silver/gold have been for soooo very long. Even the word for silver is the same word for money in many languages.. including Thai

Edited March 16, 2012 by Jayman

[midas]

They call it inflation when your paper buys less but it's just devaluation of the paper itself. Gold on the other hand cannot be created in unlimited amounts. at and it's just some commodity? Why do ALL the sovereigns and central banks keep it in mass reserves? Why not keep diamonds or corn?

Or.... the thieving ba*tards simply give you less for your money...but make it look like prices are stable

this has been going on for a long time now....i have noticed it with the size of Mars bars.

" many Americans have been duped into thinking inflation has only been occurring at a moderate pace ".

A shadow inflation hits shoppers through economic sleight of hand: Inflation and the hidden side of finances.

http://www.mybudget3...ducts-finances/

Edited March 16, 2012 by midas

[Jayman]

They call it inflation when your paper buys less but it's just devaluation of the paper itself. Gold on the other hand cannot be created in unlimited amounts. at and it's just some commodity? Why do ALL the sovereigns and central banks keep it in mass reserves? Why not keep diamonds or corn?

Or.... the thieving ba*tards simply give you less for your money...but make it look like prices are stable

this has been going on for a long time now....i have noticed it with the size of Mars bars.

" many Americans have been duped into thinking inflation has only been occurring at a moderate pace ".

A shadow inflation hits shoppers through economic sleight of hand: Inflation and the hidden side of finances.

http://www.mybudget3...ducts-finances/

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/

http://www.measuring...h.com/ppowerus/

is fun to play with the calculators and see how little money is worth now compared to when you were born.

What costs $1 in 2010 cost 19 cents in 1972

or maybe you don't like the web pages I linked...

Here is the same calculator from one of the US Federal Reserve websites http://www.minneapolisfed.org/

Edited March 16, 2012 by Jayman

[churchill]

More from Fartman who likes the views of his taxi driver ..'Did JPMorgan manipulate the gold and silver market? We have no idea. '

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2012/03/16/926591/gartman-ponders-the-1st-whistleblower-of-many/

[Jayman]

More from Fartman who likes the views of his taxi driver ..'Did JPMorgan manipulate the gold and silver market? We have no idea. '

http://ftalphaville....blower-of-many/

What?? I'm shocked!

[Jayman]

More talk of market rigging.....

CFTC notices market rigging by high-frequency trading but action doubtful

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303863404577283850694110794.html

[fletchsmile]

....

http://www.naams_nonsense.org

one of the most interesting links on here in quite a while

[gogobar8]

Jesus H Christ Mr Naam. Bout time you had a conversation with Mrs Naam

at this time Mrs Naam is incommunicado. she refuses to have any conversation when sleeping.

Hadn't thought of that Naam. Mind you I'm probably not the sharpest tool in the box.

Presumably there is an opportunity at breakfast time to bring Mrs Naam up to date with the overnight fluctuations in the price of gold?

Personally I go to Thailand to get away from the preoccupation with wealth.

"Good Morning Darling. Hey...you know that necklace your wearing... it's worth 0.9% more today than yesterday."

"So what darling husband...I ain't selling."

Yeah if you are using small money to buy gold 1:1 then most daily moves in gold mean nothing to you. This thread is probably not for you. If you are buying gold futures on say 500:1 leverage then even a small $10 move in gold (1000 points) translates into a $67 position in gold making $100 profit. Yes that's right, you can make $100 profit on a $10 move in gold with only $67. Of course you can lose it just as easily.

With 500:1 leverage you can control 10 oz of gold with $67.

The charts and discussions are more aimed at those ppl that trade futures

Understood Jayman. Sounds like you are a professional. Good Luck.

[gogobar8]

Personally I go to Thailand to get away from the preoccupation with wealth.

"Good Morning Darling. Hey...you know that necklace your wearing... it's worth 0.9% more today than yesterday."

"So what darling husband...I ain't selling."

Well you may go there to escape but there in LOS you will find more preoccupation with wealth than probably anywhere in the world

Mainly those trying to relieve you of any

Also many here might not be talking about a necklace....maybe more like this?

A tad cynical if I may say so Mr Flying. But I get your point. So do 99% of farang men in Thailand I guess.

A thread covered many times on TV Forum.

Plenty of preoccupation with wealth in China BTW. We ain't seen nothing yet.

And plenty of guys I know in good old great Britain have partners who are trying to relieve them of wealth.

Thailand ain't so special.

Up to Her what she does with you and your gold. Same anywhere in the World.

Apologies for any interference in this thread.

[flying]

A tad cynical if I may say so Mr Flying. But I get your point. So do 99% of farang men in Thailand I guess.

A thread covered many times on TV Forum.

Plenty of preoccupation with wealth in China BTW. We ain't seen nothing yet.

And plenty of guys I know in good old great Britain have partners who are trying to relieve them of wealth.

Thailand ain't so special.

Up to Her what she does with you and your gold. Same anywhere in the World.

Apologies for any interference in this thread.

Actually I should have used more smiley's gogo

Your right it does sound cynical & to be honest although I read about it here

on TV a lot I never experienced it. My in-laws & extended family there are all

very nice folks & never ask anything of me.

In fact when I want to buy something for

their life/house they always put up a fuss as to why I should save my $$$

Lastly years ago when I wanted to marry their daughter I asked them about this

sin-sod tradition & they told me....Our daughter is not for sale but if you love her

we wish you all the best & please take care of each other. They wanted nothing

in the sin-sod way.

Sorry for the side track too but I wanted to clear that implied cynicism joke I made

Edited March 16, 2012 by flying

[gogobar8]

PS. Just a quick follow up.

Big difference between wealth and greed.

Nouveau Riche Russians in Thailand might get a few surprises if the Thais get their way.

[gogobar8]

A tad cynical if I may say so Mr Flying. But I get your point. So do 99% of farang men in Thailand I guess.

A thread covered many times on TV Forum.

Plenty of preoccupation with wealth in China BTW. We ain't seen nothing yet.

And plenty of guys I know in good old great Britain have partners who are trying to relieve them of wealth.

Thailand ain't so special.

Up to Her what she does with you and your gold. Same anywhere in the World.

Apologies for any interference in this thread.

Actually I should have used more smiley's gogo

Your right it does sound cynical & to be honest although I read about it here

on TV a lot I never experienced it. My in-laws & extended family there are all

very nice folks & never ask anything of me.

In fact when I want to buy something for

their life/house they always put up a fuss as to why I should save my $$$

Lastly years ago when I wanted to marry their daughter I asked them about this

sin-sod tradition & they told me....Our daughter is not for sale but if you love her

we wish you all the best & please take care of each other. They wanted nothing

in the sin-sod way.

Sorry for the side track too but I wanted to clear that implied cynicism joke I made

Respect. I'm in the same boat. All the best.

[gogobar8]

A tad cynical if I may say so Mr Flying. But I get your point. So do 99% of farang men in Thailand I guess.

A thread covered many times on TV Forum.

Plenty of preoccupation with wealth in China BTW. We ain't seen nothing yet.

And plenty of guys I know in good old great Britain have partners who are trying to relieve them of wealth.

Thailand ain't so special.

Up to Her what she does with you and your gold. Same anywhere in the World.

Apologies for any interference in this thread.

Actually I should have used more smiley's gogo

Your right it does sound cynical & to be honest although I read about it here

on TV a lot I never experienced it. My in-laws & extended family there are all

very nice folks & never ask anything of me.

In fact when I want to buy something for

their life/house they always put up a fuss as to why I should save my $$$

Lastly years ago when I wanted to marry their daughter I asked them about this

sin-sod tradition & they told me....Our daughter is not for sale but if you love her

we wish you all the best & please take care of each other. They wanted nothing

in the sin-sod way.

Sorry for the side track too but I wanted to clear that implied cynicism joke I made

I knew nothing about Sin Sod. I fell in love with tgf and she built a home with my gold.

[lannarebirth]

And while I'm on this thread......

US never understood IndoChina.

Russians never will.

China will create wealth but the cost will be heavy.

It's not particularly hard to create wealth for some in a hierarchal society. Will they create general prosperity is the bigger question.

[Naam]

I knew nothing about Sin Sod. I fell in love with tgf and she built a home with my gold.

an honest chap like you can't be a bad one