Where Is Gold Going In This Market

[Naam]

"Gold is the money of Kings"

"Silver is the money of the people."

"Paper is the money of slaves."

Do you really think that gold has no value and that and it's just some commodity?

i never said Gold has no value. if it had no value i wouldn't own gold. what i said was "Gold has no intrinsic value" which is the mantra of the goldbugs. an M16 or a 9mm has intrinsic value when facing armed robbers in my home who threaten my loved ones. a patient on dialysis will put a high intrinsic value on a donated kidney. my dogs think a german sausage has a much higher intrinsic value than the biggest heap of "kings' money".

as far as "money of slaves" is concerned i confess that i like being a slave of that paper which enabled me to retire 22 years, 3 months and 17 days ago; whereas some of my peers had to stay in the rat race 20 years longer. and last not least i can at any time convert "slave money" into "money of kings".

[Naam]

Mr and Mrs Naam and Mr and Mrs Churchill are not welcome in my home.

now you've spoiled our weekend

[Jayman]

"Gold is the money of Kings"

"Silver is the money of the people."

"Paper is the money of slaves."

Do you really think that gold has no value and that and it's just some commodity?

as far as "money of slaves" is concerned i confess that i like being a slave of that paper which enabled me to retire 22 years, 3 months and 17 days ago; whereas some of my peers had to stay in the rat race 20 years longer. and last not least i can at any time convert "slave money" into "money of kings".

of course you can.. at the rate set forth by the slave handlers.

I would much rather hold all my money as gold/silver and turn it to paper as needed then the other way around.

But you keep doing what works for you. You obviously drink the cool aide about "goldbugs" claiming gold has an intrinsic value. As I mentioned, if it didn't have intrinsic value then why do the creators of money keep it around... it's intrinsic value is derived from the fact that it's used to create money.

http://www.investope...rinsicvalue.asp

That's why it's called the "King's money" because it is the basis for wealth preservation. Silver and gold IS money. The reason paper money even came to be was as a convenient way to carry around gold/silver. But since the 70's we are on a fiat paper system and the masses (ie the slaves) are fooled into thinking is has some sort of intrinsic value. The fact is, they can create as much as they want and what effect do you think that has on the value of the paper you are holding?

And I'll say it again, Gold is not meant to create wealth but rather preserve it. You don't buy gold as an investment hoping to make money, you buy gold in order to preserve the value of your wealth.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Jayman

[lannarebirth]

My guess it is called "the money of Kings" because on more than one occasion said Kings have had to flee their loving subjects with whatever they could fit into a few steamer trunks.

[Jayman]

Let me give a real world example of the difference between the value of fiat paper money and gold. We are not discussing investments here just value.

Lets look at the last 90-100 years in this example (although you could look at any 100 year period)

in say 1920 gold was tied to the USD at $20 an oz. So you have a $20 bill and I have 1 oz of gold. Fast forward to 2011.. http://www.minneapolisfed.org/ in 2011 your $20 has the value of $1.78 (back in 1920). My 1oz of gold has the value of $1700. What your $20 could buy in 1920's will buy you $224 worth of goods today. You have LOST a ton of the value (buying power) of your paper. My 1oz gold coin maintained it's value (buying power). I can buy $1700 worth of goods in 2011 with $20 worth of 1920 money.

Lets add oil into this... http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=F000000__3&f=A

In 1920(1919 actually) oil peaked at $2.01 a barrel. So, $20 back then would have bought you 10 barrels of oil. How many barrels of oil can you buy with that $20 today? Back then 1 oz of gold bought 10 barrels of oil. That same 1oz of gold now is buying 15 barrels of oil today.

Inflation is the result of fiat currency being devalued. The price of goods has not actually increased. Do you think it costs more now, with all the technology and efficiency, to produce goods than it did back then? Hell no, as we progress with technology the cost of goods should go down. Look at times throughout history of paper currency being pegged to gold and you will see virtually no inflation. Look how much inflation we have experienced since pulling paper from gold in the 70's.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Jayman

[Naam]

And I'll say it again, Gold is not meant to create wealth but rather preserve it. You don't buy gold as an investment hoping to make money, you buy gold in order to preserve the value of your wealth.

and whilst preserving their wealth, those who bought Gold end of the 70s, they all starved to death in the 80s and 90s whereas their heirs fly nowadays first class and stuff themselves with any goodies they can lay their hands on.

gimme a break man, take off your blinkers, consider facts and don't present fiction! what wealth did those people preserve for twenty years during the 80s and 90s when there were periods (years!) during which the "money of slaves" yielded 12-15% p.a. and gold gained zilch, کچھ نہیں, nada, nothing, nichts, rien, tipota, niente, muffat, mafeesh, เสียเที่ยว, kaimu kotonashi, nishto?

[Jayman]

And I'll say it again, Gold is not meant to create wealth but rather preserve it. You don't buy gold as an investment hoping to make money, you buy gold in order to preserve the value of your wealth.

and whilst preserving their wealth, those who bought Gold end of the 70s, they all starved to death in the 80s and 90s whereas their heirs fly nowadays first class and stuff themselves with any goodies they can lay their hands on.

gimme a break man, take off your blinkers, consider facts and don't present fiction! what wealth did those people preserve for twenty years during the 80s and 90s when there were periods (years!) during which the "money of slaves" yielded 12-15% p.a. and gold gained zilch, کچھ نہیں, nada, nothing, nichts, rien, tipota, niente, muffat, mafeesh, เสียเที่ยว, kaimu kotonashi, nishto?

Ohh.. you want to use for your example the 20 years following the removal of the gold standard? I would recon that is the only 20 year period you could use that example for. That is always why many from your generation are so sour on gold. Because of the gold bubble of the late 70's.

Name 1 lifetime in all of history where fiat currency didn't lose value. And then name 1 lifetime in world history where gold didn't maintain or gain in value..

Also, you can't go discussing the bank interest rates without also mentioning the rate of inflation. They are hand in hand. Inflation was out of control during that time and hence why the banks were paying such high interest

And you say I am wearing blinders..?

http://en.wikipedia....1980s_recession

http://pages.stern.n...AP5.HTM#topic11

http://bancroft.berkeley.edu/ROHO/projects/debt/1990srecession.html

Edited March 17, 2012 by Jayman

[midas]

I would much rather hold all my money as gold/silver and turn it to paper as needed then the other way around.

But you keep doing what works for you. You obviously drink the cool aide about "goldbugs" claiming gold has an intrinsic value. As I mentioned, if it didn't have intrinsic value then why do the creators of money keep it around... it's intrinsic value is derived from the fact that it's used to create money.

http://www.investope...rinsicvalue.asp

That's why it's called the "King's money" because it is the basis for wealth preservation. Silver and gold IS money. The reason paper money even came to be was as a convenient way to carry around gold/silver. But since the 70's we are on a fiat paper system and the masses (ie the slaves) are fooled into thinking is has some sort of intrinsic value. The fact is, they can create as much as they want and what effect do you think that has on the value of the paper you are holding?

And I'll say it again, Gold is not meant to create wealth but rather preserve it. You don't buy gold as an investment hoping to make money, you buy gold in order to preserve the value of your wealth.

Jayman what is your perspective on this?

doesn't this headline tend to prove that gold prices are being kept down deliberately?

in earlier times surely with these kinds of " developments " you would have expected gold to

strengthen just as oil prices have?

Brent At $126 As Israel Security Cabinet Votes 8 To 6 To Attack Iran

"Israeli political sources believe that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu a majority Cabinet support Israeli military action against Iran without American approval.”

http://www.richardsi...inal-ultimatum/

[Naam]

Name 1 lifetime in all of history where fiat currency didn't lose value. And then name 1 lifetime in world history where gold didn't maintain or gain in value.

the only lifetime in history that counts for me is my lifetime respectively the time of my life when i earned slave money, saved slave money, invested slave money and spent (and still spending) the proceeds of slave money to finance an extremely comfortable life to this very day. during this time Gold earned/gained shite² compared to slave paper money even when taking into consideration the phantastic gains of the last several years.

the value of Gold during the time of the Pharaoes, when Alexander the Great beat Xerxes, the Roman Empire, the Middle (and dark ages), the German or Zimbabwean inflation is as important and relevant for me as the proverbial bag of rice which has toppled over in a warehouse located in Northern Manchuria making the resident rats and mice happy.

[midas]

Name 1 lifetime in all of history where fiat currency didn't lose value. And then name 1 lifetime in world history where gold didn't maintain or gain in value.

the only lifetime in history that counts for me is my lifetime respectively the time of my life when i earned slave money, saved slave money, invested slave money and spent (and still spending) the proceeds of slave money to finance an extremely comfortable life to this very day. during this time Gold earned/gained shite² compared to slave paper money even when taking into consideration the phantastic gains of the last several years.

the value of Gold during the time of the Pharaoes, when Alexander the Great beat Xerxes, the Roman Empire, the Middle (and dark ages), the German or Zimbabwean inflation is as important and relevant for me as the proverbial bag of rice which has toppled over in a warehouse located in Northern Manchuria making the resident rats and mice happy.

but this table suggests when people lose confidence things can happen very very quickly!

Highest monthly inflation rates in history^[47] Country Currency name Month with highest inflation rate Highest monthly inflation rate Equivalent daily inflation rate Time required for prices to double Hungary Hungarian pengő July 1946 4.19 × 10¹⁶ % 207.19% 15 hours Zimbabwe Zimbabwe dollar November 2008 7.96 × 10¹⁰ % 98.01% 24.7 hours Yugoslavia Yugoslav dinar January 1994 3.13 × 10⁸ % 64.63% 1.4 days Germany German Papiermark October 1923 29,500% 20.87% 3.7 days Greece Greek drachma October 1944 13,800% 17.84% 4.3 days Taiwan (Republic of China) Old Taiwan dollar May 1949 2,178% 10.98% 6.7 days

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation

Edited March 17, 2012 by midas

[Jayman]

I would much rather hold all my money as gold/silver and turn it to paper as needed then the other way around.

But you keep doing what works for you. You obviously drink the cool aide about "goldbugs" claiming gold has an intrinsic value. As I mentioned, if it didn't have intrinsic value then why do the creators of money keep it around... it's intrinsic value is derived from the fact that it's used to create money.

http://www.investope...rinsicvalue.asp

That's why it's called the "King's money" because it is the basis for wealth preservation. Silver and gold IS money. The reason paper money even came to be was as a convenient way to carry around gold/silver. But since the 70's we are on a fiat paper system and the masses (ie the slaves) are fooled into thinking is has some sort of intrinsic value. The fact is, they can create as much as they want and what effect do you think that has on the value of the paper you are holding?

And I'll say it again, Gold is not meant to create wealth but rather preserve it. You don't buy gold as an investment hoping to make money, you buy gold in order to preserve the value of your wealth.

Jayman what is your perspective on this?

doesn't this headline tend to prove that gold prices are being kept down deliberately?

in earlier times surely with these kinds of " developments " you would have expected gold to

strengthen just as oil prices have?

Brent At $126 As Israel Security Cabinet Votes 8 To 6 To Attack Iran

"Israeli political sources believe that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu a majority Cabinet support Israeli military action against Iran without American approval.”

http://www.richardsi...inal-ultimatum/

Go back a few posts and you will see my perspective on this. I believe that gold's true USD value is much higher than what it sits at today. It's the Central Banks who benefit from keeping the prices on metals (gold/silver) low. In the long term, gold will go much higher for sure.

Name 1 lifetime in all of history where fiat currency didn't lose value. And then name 1 lifetime in world history where gold didn't maintain or gain in value.

the only lifetime in history that counts for me is my lifetime respectively the time of my life when i earned slave money, saved slave money, invested slave money and spent (and still spending) the proceeds of slave money to finance an extremely comfortable life to this very day. during this time Gold earned/gained shite² compared to slave paper money even when taking into consideration the phantastic gains of the last several years.

the value of Gold during the time of the Pharaoes, when Alexander the Great beat Xerxes, the Roman Empire, the Middle (and dark ages), the German or Zimbabwean inflation is as important and relevant for me as the proverbial bag of rice which has toppled over in a warehouse located in Northern Manchuria making the resident rats and mice happy.

I understand what you are saying. Most people don't look outside their bubble and you have shown to be no exception to this.

[gogobar8]

I knew nothing about Sin Sod. I fell in love with tgf and she built a home with my gold.

an honest chap like you can't be a bad one

Just looking for some truth Mr Naam. Central Banks manipulating stuff that comes out of the ground feels alien to me.

Good luck and regards.

[Naam]

I understand what you are saying. Most people don't look outside their bubble and you have shown to be no exception to this.

but i look with some interest at the Gold bubble, the Silver bubble, the Platinum bubble, the Palladium bubble and quite a number of other bubbles (including the fiat slave money bubble) too.

quite interesting and very entertaining i find reports how many ounces of Gold a gentleman had to pay for a tailor made Savile Row suit in september 1789 or how many talents of Silver per month were required to recruit and maintain an army of 24,000 soldiers in 13th century continental Europe because, based on these facts, learned experts are able to extrapolate and forecast the price of Gold and Silver on friday afternoon 27th december 2013.

[Naam]

Name 1 lifetime in all of history where fiat currency didn't lose value. And then name 1 lifetime in world history where gold didn't maintain or gain in value.

the only lifetime in history that counts for me is my lifetime respectively the time of my life when i earned slave money, saved slave money, invested slave money and spent (and still spending) the proceeds of slave money to finance an extremely comfortable life to this very day. during this time Gold earned/gained shite² compared to slave paper money even when taking into consideration the phantastic gains of the last several years.

the value of Gold during the time of the Pharaoes, when Alexander the Great beat Xerxes, the Roman Empire, the Middle (and dark ages), the German or Zimbabwean inflation is as important and relevant for me as the proverbial bag of rice which has toppled over in a warehouse located in Northern Manchuria making the resident rats and mice happy.

but this table suggests when people lose confidence things can happen very very quickly!

Highest monthly inflation rates in history^[47] Country Currency name Month with highest inflation rate Highest monthly inflation rate Equivalent daily inflation rate Time required for prices to double Hungary Hungarian pengő July 1946 4.19 × 10¹⁶ % 207.19% 15 hours Zimbabwe Zimbabwe dollar November 2008 7.96 × 10¹⁰ % 98.01% 24.7 hours Yugoslavia Yugoslav dinar January 1994 3.13 × 10⁸ % 64.63% 1.4 days Germany German Papiermark October 1923 29,500% 20.87% 3.7 days Greece Greek drachma October 1944 13,800% 17.84% 4.3 days Taiwan (Republic of China) Old Taiwan dollar May 1949 2,178% 10.98% 6.7 days

http://en.wikipedia..../Hyperinflation

YAWNNN...

the usual "facts" which are basically correct but without the important background information that rampant inflation prevailed before this dates and anybody with an IQ above 82.5 was able to forecast that the situation will be getting worse, not better.

[churchill]

And while I'm on this thread......

US never understood IndoChina.

Russians never will.

China will create wealth but the cost will be heavy.

Well I was thinking of posting this although not on topic ..

Martin Jacques: Understanding the rise of China

http://www.ted.com/t...e_of_china.html

Edited March 18, 2012 by churchill

[Jayman]

As Retail Sells, Central Banks Wave Gold In With Both Hands

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/retail-sells-central-banks-wave-gold-both-hands

[gogobar8]

And while I'm on this thread......

US never understood IndoChina.

Russians never will.

China will create wealth but the cost will be heavy.

Well I was thinking of posting this although not on topic ..

Martin Jacques: Understanding the rise of China

http://www.ted.com/t...e_of_china.html

Great post Mr Churchill. Hypocritical of me to argue with the truth.

Where will the Chinese go for their holidays?

[waza]

well if they want to see Koalas and fish for trout then Chang Mai is the place. If they want those trout smoked then just hang the out the window.

[metisdead]

Nonsense troll posts removed.

[Naam]

Name 1 lifetime in all of history where fiat currency didn't lose value. And then name 1 lifetime in world history where gold didn't maintain or gain in value..

hmmm... naming a "lifetime" would be too easy. what about taking a look at freaking 500 years / five centuries / half a millenium during which Gold lost and lost and lost and lost?

[Naam]

Also, you can't go discussing the bank interest rates without also mentioning the rate of inflation. They are hand in hand. Inflation was out of control during that time and hence why the banks were paying such high interest

And you say I am wearing blinders..?

yes you do wear blinkers. either by brain-washed choice or by ignorance.

before taking on seasoned investors you need to acquire a wee bit of basic knowledge on inflation, interest rates and their interaction. high inflation and therefore (in most cases) high interest rates in one country and its currency does not affect an investor who invests in this currency, cashes in fat yield AND capital gains when he reconverts this currency in his home country's or the country's currency where he lives, spends his money and where there is no high inflation.

the latter happens quite often but i am referring specifically to those years (early/mid 80s) where triple A rated U.S. governments bonds yielded in excess of 15% and the U.S. Dollar doubled in value vs. strong major currencies (e.g. Deutsche Mark) whereas Gold fell from its highs of 800 to less than 300 U.S. Dollars an ounce.

[flying]

Tis true gents.............

Don't let my buddy Naam fool you

He probably holds more physical than all of us put together

but he does not buy into various claims about the metals.

That does not mean he does not appreciate its value as evidenced

by his holdings.....He is just not a one way only kind of person.

He is a well rounded experienced investor that knows how

to pick the meat clean off the bone of any investment he makes.

He is a realist & a very successful investor.

I only wish I had the investing smarts he has in his pinky finger

alone as I would be much more ahead of the game than I am now.

This coming from a very anti-fiat kinda guy

Edited March 19, 2012 by flying

[Naam]

He is a well rounded experienced investor that knows how

to pick the meat clean off the bone of any investment he makes.

little do you know Flying. if today i had all the dough which i lost with

various investments during the last 30 years i'd be able to finance the

campaign "Flying for president of the U.S. of A.!"

[flying]

He is a well rounded experienced investor that knows how

to pick the meat clean off the bone of any investment he makes.

little do you know Flying. if today i had all the dough which i lost with

various investments during the last 30 years i'd be able to finance the

campaign "Flying for president of the U.S. of A.!"

Well we could still give the campaign a try on what you have left?

I figure a couple of bumper stickers would be a good start?

I could attend all the debates with a tin foil hat & let them know what is what....

On 2nd thought maybe a nice grilled chicken stand in LOS?

[flying]

Something from a cyclist I read........

Expecting Middle of May for next highs in gold *if* March 14th was the low

If $1550 does not get broken then $2100 by mid May

Now....remember I read these like horoscopes.....More out of interest to see

if they do well accuracy wise

[Jayman]

Spot Gold (NY Close): $1660.00 // +1.57 // +0.09%

Prices appear to be carving out a Falling Wedge bullish reversal chart formation, with a Harami candlestick pattern above support at 1638.84 reinforcing the likelihood of a bounce. Initial resistance lines up in the 1666.37-1677.05 area, with a break above that validating the Wedge setup and exposing resistance barriers at the 1700/oz figure as well as 1718.05.

[lannarebirth]

And I'll say it again, Gold is not meant to create wealth but rather preserve it. You don't buy gold as an investment hoping to make money, you buy gold in order to preserve the value of your wealth.

Spot Gold (NY Close): $1660.00 // +1.57 // +0.09%

Prices appear to be carving out a Falling Wedge bullish reversal chart formation, with a Harami candlestick pattern above support at 1638.84 reinforcing the likelihood of a bounce. Initial resistance lines up in the 1666.37-1677.05 area, with a break above that validating the Wedge setup and exposing resistance barriers at the 1700/oz figure as well as 1718.05.

If your first quote is true, why would you ever need to look at the ticker?

[churchill]

Something from a cyclist I read........

Expecting Middle of May for next highs in gold *if* March 14th was the low

If $1550 does not get broken then $2100 by mid May

Now....remember I read these like horoscopes.....More out of interest to see

if they do well accuracy wise

Greece solved , Euro OK ..

Feels.. Calm before the Storm ...

[Jayman]

And I'll say it again, Gold is not meant to create wealth but rather preserve it. You don't buy gold as an investment hoping to make money, you buy gold in order to preserve the value of your wealth.

Spot Gold (NY Close): $1660.00 // +1.57 // +0.09%

Prices appear to be carving out a Falling Wedge bullish reversal chart formation, with a Harami candlestick pattern above support at 1638.84 reinforcing the likelihood of a bounce. Initial resistance lines up in the 1666.37-1677.05 area, with a break above that validating the Wedge setup and exposing resistance barriers at the 1700/oz figure as well as 1718.05.

If your first quote is true, why would you ever need to look at the ticker?

Because I trade paper gold for profit. But all the physical metal I own I am holding for preservation of value in my savings for the long run.

There is a huge difference between trading paper gold on margin and owning physical gold in your portfolio.

I'll be honest and say I haven't read all this thread but it's not clear to me which type of "gold" the OP refers to. I assume, since "gold" and "market" are both being used that we are not talking about buying physical gold for our ladies but probably more the trade able paper gold market.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Jayman

[Jayman]

Another good read is about backwardation.

http://www.caseyresearch.com/articles/gold-backwardation-now-permanent