Where Is Gold Going In This Market

[flying]

I figure as long as Central banks keep it on *their* tally sheets it is something

Same goes for governments who keep reserves .....Other wise why don't they keep diamonds etc. instead.

[Jayman]

If gold isn't money, why did Vietnam just outlaw using it as such?

because it is not money. as simple as that

Whether you consider it "money" or not doesn't change the fact that it was being used as money in Vietnam and the government has just outlawed it's use as such.

I'd be interested to hear what the official "Naam" definition of money actually is.

Consider that Iran, China, and India are exchanging it for goods and services.

I would argue that gold is being used as currency by definition.

Actually after pondering this some more I have concluded that gold is worth more as gold than it is as money. I have several gold coins that as gold are worth much, much more than the monetary value that is stamped on the coin.

I have a 2000thb solid gold thai coin that contains 1/5oz of gold. It's gold value is much higher than 2000thb.

The same can be said for my Austrian, US, Canadian, French, British,and Chinese gold coins.

[flying]

a clear definition for "money" does not exist. goods and services can be and are paid for by a variety of "compensations" such as

I would say in the USA at least...Legal Tender is what they want to force it to be.

In our case it is dollars..FED Reserve Notes

Say's right on them......This Note Is Legal Tender For All Debts, Public & Private

[Jayman]

I'd be interested to hear what the official "Naam" definition of money actually is.

a clear definition for "money" does not exist. goods and services can be and are paid for by a variety of "compensations" such as

-printed colourful paper,

-metal coins,

-metal pieces,

-promises to compensate at a later date,

-bartering/exchanging goods and/or services for other goods and/or services, e.g. repairing a car engine or providing sex... too numerous to list.

the value of all goods and services fluctuates depending on prevailing circumstances. should Pattaya restrict entry of single males and allow only husbands accompanied by their wives, the price for bar fines and short time will tumble into an abyss. like wise would the price of beer and booze tumble if only registered members of Alcoholics Anomymous were allowed to cross the city limits.

Sounds to me like paper money falls into the same scenario. As the Central banks increase the money supply then the paper money we hold now falls into an abyss. The opposite is true if the contract the supply of money.

The fact is that Central banks manipulate the value of fiat currency just as they do for certain commodity classes that are linked to fiat money.

What Flying says is 100% valid. Is the Central banks keep it as a reserve with their foreign currency reserves then it shows that even the central banks consider it a foreign currency (foreign to there currency) and not just some standard commodity that moves with the "free market".

[Jayman]

a clear definition for "money" does not exist. goods and services can be and are paid for by a variety of "compensations" such as

I would say in the USA at least...Legal Tender is what they want to force it to be.

In our case it is dollars..FED Reserve Notes

Say's right on them......This Note Is Legal Tender For All Debts, Public & Private

And yes, that is the definition of "fiat" currency. It is given it's value by fiat decree. The courts will not enforce the debt if this fiat paper is not accepted as payment.

I wish I could start a poll in this thread.."Do you consider gold to be money?"

Edited April 9, 2012 by Jayman

[flying]

In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation. There is no safe store of value. If there were, the government would have to make its holding illegal, as was done in the case of gold. If everyone decided, for example, to convert all his bank deposits to silver or copper or any other good, and thereafter declined to accept checks as payment for goods, bank deposits would lose their purchasing power and government-created bank credit would be worthless as a claim on goods. The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves.

This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard.

http://www.constitut...enspan_gold.htm

Edited April 9, 2012 by flying

[Naam]

1. Sounds to me like paper money falls into the same scenario. As the Central banks increase the money supply then the paper money we hold now falls into an abyss. The opposite is true if the contract the supply of money.

2. The fact is that Central banks manipulate the value of fiat currency just as they do for certain commodity classes that are linked to fiat money.

3. What Flying says is 100% valid. Is the Central banks keep it as a reserve with their foreign currency reserves then it shows that even the central banks consider it a foreign currency (foreign to there currency) and not just some standard commodity that moves with the "free market".

-i don't deny that paper money belongs into the same category.

-there is no hard evidence that central banks manipulate the value of fiat currency. that value is (in the long run) determined by the "market".

-i fail to see the logic in this claim. it is undeniable that the price of gold fluctuates. evidence: a BigMac in terms of gold was cheaper in september 2011 than it is today.

[Naam]

If everyone decided, for example, to convert all his bank deposits to silver or copper or any other good, and thereafter declined to accept...

then there'd be nothing left to decline or accept. banks would cease to exist, all financial transactions would come to a standstill and without financial transactions all other transactions would stop or be limited to stone age barter trade.

If one grasps this, one has no diffculty to understand...

that wet dreams ot hallucinations differ from reality.

[Naam]

I wish I could start a poll in this thread.."Do you consider gold to be money?"

then what? if we all vote that gold is money can we go to Starbucks and pay for a coffee with gold dust or buy steaks in Foodland paid for by a Krüger Rand and demand to receive the change in gold?

[Jayman]

I wish I could start a poll in this thread.."Do you consider gold to be money?"

then what? if we all vote that gold is money can we go to Starbucks and pay for a coffee with gold dust or buy steaks in Foodland paid for by a Krüger Rand and demand to receive the change in gold?

No more than you can walk into a foodland and try to pay in Euro.

Considering that the Rand is the national currency of S Africa I'm sure that you could walk into places in S Africa and pay for goods with a krugerand.

For that matter, many of my gold coins are legal tender and must be accepted in any country that accepts that currency. ie.. my gold eagles or buffaloes must be accepted in the US as legal USD tender. They are minted by the US government.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Jayman

[Jayman]

I wish I could start a poll in this thread.."Do you consider gold to be money?"

then what? if we all vote that gold is money can we go to Starbucks and pay for a coffee with gold dust or buy steaks in Foodland paid for by a Krüger Rand and demand to receive the change in gold?

The poll is more to get an understanding of how folks consider gold. No intention of the poll changing the way the world does things. Just a census of how gold is viewed.

It's clear to me that you don't consider anything that hasn't been issued by your bank as money.

[Naam]

this is getting boring. chewing and regurgitating the same <deleted> over and over again, e.g. denying that the price of gold is fluctuating with ridiculous and irrelevant comments or by discussing "is gold money?"

waiting for London to open that i can make a wee bit of fiat money which my wife needs to buy some vegetables and food for my dogs. stupid Hang Seng and Nikkei have nothing which i am interested to trade.

[Jayman]

1. Sounds to me like paper money falls into the same scenario. As the Central banks increase the money supply then the paper money we hold now falls into an abyss. The opposite is true if the contract the supply of money.

2. The fact is that Central banks manipulate the value of fiat currency just as they do for certain commodity classes that are linked to fiat money.

3. What Flying says is 100% valid. Is the Central banks keep it as a reserve with their foreign currency reserves then it shows that even the central banks consider it a foreign currency (foreign to there currency) and not just some standard commodity that moves with the "free market".

-i don't deny that paper money belongs into the same category.

-there is no hard evidence that central banks manipulate the value of fiat currency. that value is (in the long run) determined by the "market".

-i fail to see the logic in this claim. it is undeniable that the price of gold fluctuates. evidence: a BigMac in terms of gold was cheaper in september 2011 than it is today.

What hard evidence are you looking for? The Central banks come out and announce the "intervention" into the currency markets all the time. Look at the swiss franc vs euro. The SNB has announced a solid floor at 1.2 that they will protect at all costs. What do you call that if not manipulation? They lowered the value of the swiss franc and made a statement that they will not let it get any stringer than 1.2 against the euro or they will step back in to devalue it some more.

[Jayman]

this is getting boring. chewing and regurgitating the same <deleted> over and over again, e.g. denying that the price of gold is fluctuating with ridiculous and irrelevant comments or by discussing "is gold money?"

waiting for London to open that i can make a wee bit of fiat money which my wife needs to buy some vegetables and food for my dogs. stupid Hang Seng and Nikkei have nothing which i am interested to trade.

Who is denying that the price of gold doesn't fluctuate?

[Jayman]

waiting for London to open that i can make a wee bit of fiat money which my wife needs to buy some vegetables and food for my dogs. stupid Hang Seng and Nikkei have nothing which i am interested to trade.

For someone that frequently announces a lack of interest in gold you sure do spend an awful lot of time posting your opinions in the gold thread.

[Naam]

The poll is more to get an understanding of how folks consider gold. No intention of the poll changing the way the world does things. Just a census of how gold is viewed.

It's clear to me that you don't consider anything that hasn't been issued by your bank as money.

more irrelevant and sidestepping yakety-yak concerning a worthless census "how folks consider gold". plus the arrogant claim that you know what i consider or do not.

[udonguy]

any chance of getting back to 'where if gold going'?

[flying]

If everyone decided, for example, to convert all his bank deposits to silver or copper or any other good, and thereafter declined to accept...

then there'd be nothing left to decline or accept. banks would cease to exist, all financial transactions would come to a standstill and without financial transactions all other transactions would stop or be limited to stone age barter trade.

Well yes it would be a collapse....but it would be a collapse of the fiat

The void of course would be filled...whether by gold or another fiat or sea-shells it would be filled.

Yes all transactions in the failed currency would halt as it has many times before

But the void will be filled of course. Life goes on as it always has

I am not saying this or that currency will fail...although it would be a bet that has precidence

But I am saying it would be replaced by something........

Just as these were............ Life went on

[flying]

any chance of getting back to 'where if gold going'?

Today is goes up so far

opened with a nice jump but does not seem to have legs today.

just IMHO

[Jayman]

The poll is more to get an understanding of how folks consider gold. No intention of the poll changing the way the world does things. Just a census of how gold is viewed.

It's clear to me that you don't consider anything that hasn't been issued by your bank as money.

more irrelevant and sidestepping yakety-yak concerning a worthless census "how folks consider gold". plus the arrogant claim that you know what i consider or do not.

Boy naan you play both sides to fit you. You assume the poll wad to force Starbucks to accept gold. Then you say that my pointing out what you have said is arrogant. You made your opinion known. You said you don't consider gold as money. Actually you were much more arrogant in your statement that gold is not money.

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Tapatalk 2 Beta-5

[flying]

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Tapatalk 2 Beta-5

Cool !

I almost bought that but went with the cooper so it could fit easily in my pocket

But have the Tab10.1 also

Sorry for the OT detour

[Jayman]

any chance of getting back to 'where if gold going'?

Today is goes up so far

opened with a nice jump but does not seem to have legs today.

just IMHO

Gold opened with a gap up as most of the gold markets were closed last Friday when the US job numbers released. I suspect that the price will drop back down and closer the gap . Personally I'm shorting from 1631

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Tapatalk 2 Beta-5

[Naam]

What hard evidence are you looking for? The Central banks come out and announce the "intervention" into the currency markets all the time. Look at the swiss franc vs euro. The SNB has announced a solid floor at 1.2 that they will protect at all costs. What do you call that if not manipulation? They lowered the value of the swiss franc and made a statement that they will not let it get any stringer than 1.2 against the euro or they will step back in to devalue it some more.

we are discussing GOLD here, not the exchange rate EUR/CHF! which central bank has come out and announced we are manipulating the price of gold? where is the evidence that the gold price is manipulated? by the way, any country has the right to "manipulate" (if possible) its exchange rate if it hurts its economy.

gold bugs twist and turn their theories to fit their wishful thinking. in the morning they claim central banks are hoarding gold and in the afternoon they insinuate the hoarded gold does obviously not exist because it was never audited.

[Jayman]

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Tapatalk 2 Beta-5

Cool !

I almost bought that but went with the cooper so it could fit easily in my pocket

But have the Tab10.1 also

Sorry for the OT detour

It is my absolute favorite piece of technology I've ever owned.

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Tapatalk 2 Beta-5

[Jayman]

1. Sounds to me like paper money falls into the same scenario. As the Central banks increase the money supply then the paper money we hold now falls into an abyss. The opposite is true if the contract the supply of money.

2. The fact is that Central banks manipulate the value of fiat currency just as they do for certain commodity classes that are linked to fiat money.

3. What Flying says is 100% valid. Is the Central banks keep it as a reserve with their foreign currency reserves then it shows that even the central banks consider it a foreign currency (foreign to there currency) and not just some standard commodity that moves with the "free market".

-there is no hard evidence that central banks manipulate the value of fiat currency. that value is (in the long run) determined by the "market".

That is your quote not mine.

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Tapatalk 2 Beta-5

[Naam]

Yes all transactions in the failed currency would halt as it has many times before. But the void will be filled of course. Life goes on as it always has..

wrong Flying! transactions of single currencies have failed. if transactions fail on a global scale life will be completely different and not "going on as it always has". or do you expect Wen Jiabao fly with gold bars to Venezuela and hand them over to Hugo Chavez to pay for crude oil deliveries?

[edgarfriendly]

Aren't diamonds hoarded so as to falsely explain their rarety/high value?

As for getting back on track, this is about as good as it gets in here.

ef

[flying]

Yes all transactions in the failed currency would halt as it has many times before. But the void will be filled of course. Life goes on as it always has..

wrong Flying! transactions of single currencies have failed. if transactions fail on a global scale life will be completely different and not "going on as it always has". or do you expect Wen Jiabao fly with gold bars to Venezuela and hand them over to Hugo Chavez to pay for crude oil deliveries?

Well I did say "in the failed currency"

[Naam]

Aren't diamonds hoarded so as to falsely explain their rarety/high value?

As for getting back on track, this is about as good as it gets in here.

ef

the truth about diamonds is that if you buy one and walk out of the shop you have lost already 35-40% which is the profit margin of the distribution chain and the shop you bought from.

[Naam]

Yes all transactions in the failed currency would halt as it has many times before. But the void will be filled of course. Life goes on as it always has..

wrong Flying! transactions of single currencies have failed. if transactions fail on a global scale life will be completely different and not "going on as it always has". or do you expect Wen Jiabao fly with gold bars to Venezuela and hand them over to Hugo Chavez to pay for crude oil deliveries?

Well I did say "in the failed currency"

you mean life goes on in Alaska and Hawaii if some residents need goods shipped from companies located London or Tokyo because their currency did not fail? what about if they need goods from the continental U.S. of A. where the currency failed too?