Where Is Gold Going In This Market

[Naam]

I am an amateur fraudster. Please send me your gold. I will then conduct various experiments on the gold and let you know where it is going in this market. Please note I charge flat rate 2 % of all gold analysed.

Please pm me if interested.

are you charging VAT too?

[yoshiwara]

Not convinced , but ...

Propping up the gold price

http://ftalphaville...._medium=twitter

This no artificial "propping". "support for gold price" - being actual reasoned support from real physical demand ie bullion and central banks purchasing; opposed to artificial suppression from the often discussed paper tricks.

To me it reads more like evidence of why the gold price was / is actively suppressed; ie to give the banks etc a good buy price + time to get hold of all the tax payers money and handouts, paper creation swapped to real physical assets.

When they turn off the flood and trickery of paper representatives of physical then price shoots up leaving them with massive value reserves of gold- while currencies crash- gov debt and bank debt etc correspondingly is basically wiped out/ cleared since the currency value compared to the new value of gold is tiny. Only the public who get screwed short term as inflation explodes.

This is the plan I think, in a managed way- perhapse over 5-10years, and can be seen in the recent moves to reintroduce gold as a tier 1 asset and the endless QE.

How else will these mountains of debt be dealt with?

Default is unthinkable for the likes of USA and Britain. Too proud by far.

Another point from the article is the jewlrey market has dropped off, replaced by bullion. So if situation were to stabilise and jewlry picked up that's even more bullish for gold since the bullion part isn't going away since its now become a tier 1 asset and only just the start of diversification from fiat reserves. This mass move out of fiat will also add to the continued drop in value of the major currencies.

So the price goes down so they can buy it and then 'er it goes down again.

Another gem from the top of my head team.

Edited July 11, 2012 by yoshiwara

[churchill]

Price of gold July 11, 2011: 1555.50

Price of gold July 11, 2012: 1574.20

It's been a quiet & relaxing year ... Not !

[Naam]

Price of gold August 11, 2011: 1,909

Price of gold August 11, 2012: ¿?

[mccw]

Not convinced , but ...

Propping up the gold price

http://ftalphaville...._medium=twitter

This no artificial "propping". "support for gold price" - being actual reasoned support from real physical demand ie bullion and central banks purchasing; opposed to artificial suppression from the often discussed paper tricks.

To me it reads more like evidence of why the gold price was / is actively suppressed; ie to give the banks etc a good buy price + time to get hold of all the tax payers money and handouts, paper creation swapped to real physical assets.

When they turn off the flood and trickery of paper representatives of physical then price shoots up leaving them with massive value reserves of gold- while currencies crash- gov debt and bank debt etc correspondingly is basically wiped out/ cleared since the currency value compared to the new value of gold is tiny. Only the public who get screwed short term as inflation explodes.

This is the plan I think, in a managed way- perhapse over 5-10years, and can be seen in the recent moves to reintroduce gold as a tier 1 asset and the endless QE.

How else will these mountains of debt be dealt with?

Default is unthinkable for the likes of USA and Britain. Too proud by far.

Another point from the article is the jewlrey market has dropped off, replaced by bullion. So if situation were to stabilise and jewlry picked up that's even more bullish for gold since the bullion part isn't going away since its now become a tier 1 asset and only just the start of diversification from fiat reserves. This mass move out of fiat will also add to the continued drop in value of the major currencies.

So the price goes down so they can buy it and then 'er it goes down again.

Another gem from the top of my head team.

Process of purchases going on over time, so price going down is even more evidence of their manipulation and plan. This is about loading up physical in preparation for new system not making a quick buck on individual trades any more.

China sees it coming; that's why they keep all gold in country thats produced there.

So how do you think the American debt mountain will be climbed otherwise?

Mix of restructuring and inflation is what I think.

Come on genius, enlighten us.

(Also, West openly says their plan is to get back to export led growth. = cheaper currencies to be more competitive. China has already begun printing in response. Countries like Thailand which haven't you can see 30 odd % increase in value / dollar devalue over the last several years. Even if you think all the gold bullion purchasing won't trigger an eventual dramatic price increase- perhapse due to paper reps creation for balance to maintain stability ie so no sudden rush from equities- then maybe I could agree its possible; but the move of world central banks to diversify out of currency 5-10-20% or what ever + QE must have effect on relative value)

[Naam]

but the move of world central banks to diversify out of currency 5-10-20% or what ever + QE must have effect on relative value

there's theory and there's reality.

based on all laws of aeronautics and aerodynamics a bumble bee

is not able to fly. however, as bumble bees are not inclined to study

these laws and are therefore unaware of their existence they keep on

flying happily from blossom to blossom and collect delicious nectar.

[yoshiwara]

Not convinced , but ...

Propping up the gold price

http://ftalphaville...._medium=twitter

This no artificial "propping". "support for gold price" - being actual reasoned support from real physical demand ie bullion and central banks purchasing; opposed to artificial suppression from the often discussed paper tricks.

To me it reads more like evidence of why the gold price was / is actively suppressed; ie to give the banks etc a good buy price + time to get hold of all the tax payers money and handouts, paper creation swapped to real physical assets.

When they turn off the flood and trickery of paper representatives of physical then price shoots up leaving them with massive value reserves of gold- while currencies crash- gov debt and bank debt etc correspondingly is basically wiped out/ cleared since the currency value compared to the new value of gold is tiny. Only the public who get screwed short term as inflation explodes.

This is the plan I think, in a managed way- perhapse over 5-10years, and can be seen in the recent moves to reintroduce gold as a tier 1 asset and the endless QE.

How else will these mountains of debt be dealt with?

Default is unthinkable for the likes of USA and Britain. Too proud by far.

Another point from the article is the jewlrey market has dropped off, replaced by bullion. So if situation were to stabilise and jewlry picked up that's even more bullish for gold since the bullion part isn't going away since its now become a tier 1 asset and only just the start of diversification from fiat reserves. This mass move out of fiat will also add to the continued drop in value of the major currencies.

So the price goes down so they can buy it and then 'er it goes down again.

Another gem from the top of my head team.

Process of purchases going on over time, so price going down is even more evidence of their manipulation and plan.

Zero understanding of economics. Process of trades going on over time. Each purchase requires a sale. Your assumption of increased demand against price reality is pure voodoo ideology. If reality doesn't match your presumptions then that reality must be false and your presumptions correct. A world of aluminium hats and gold bug websites.

[OriginalPoster]

but the move of world central banks to diversify out of currency 5-10-20% or what ever + QE must have effect on relative value

there's theory and there's reality.

based on all laws of aeronautics and aerodynamics a bumble bee

is not able to fly. however, as bumble bees are not inclined to study

these laws and are therefore unaware of their existence they keep on

flying happily from blossom to blossom and collect delicious nectar.

Don't know about those aeronautics and aerodynamics laws but in Arizona and in parts of New Jersey bumble bees are allowed to fly.

[mccw]

Yoshi , Ostrich; No glasses or is it that your heads stuck so far deep in your arse?

I said "process of PURCHASES"

Ie many completed trades over a course of several months to years depending on various factors your obviously too dim witted to comprehend, let alone debate sensibly.

Shame you can't even respond to the reasoned arguments based on economic facts laid before you or offer up any such thought of your own. So boring! True to form just a load of bla bla rubbish of zero substance.

[mccw]

Here's a conspiracy for you....

RBS group doesn't have the liquidity to function properly .....

The IT problem is just a cover

[Naam]

but the move of world central banks to diversify out of currency 5-10-20% or what ever + QE must have effect on relative value

there's theory and there's reality.

based on all laws of aeronautics and aerodynamics a bumble bee

is not able to fly. however, as bumble bees are not inclined to study

these laws and are therefore unaware of their existence they keep on

flying happily from blossom to blossom and collect delicious nectar.

Don't know about those aeronautics and aerodynamics laws but in Arizona and in parts of New Jersey bumble bees are allowed to fly.

what part of

they keep on flying happily

is it you don't understand?

[Naam]

Here's a conspiracy for you....

RBS group doesn't have the liquidity to function properly .....

The IT problem is just a cover

conspiracy apart, Yoshiwara presented a valid point which, over

the years, i mentioned quite often but never got a reaction.

gold lovers are engrossed by "central banks, X, Y, Z et al are

buying left and right" and repeat that like a mantra over and

over and over again. they somehow indirectly imply that this

gold is bought from an existing heap and if this imaginary

heap has finally disappeared the resulting scarcity will cause

the price of gold to rocket sky high.

the simple truth "for every buyer there is a seller" is either

negated, not taken into consideration or countered with an

irrelevant reference to paper gold trading. that the latter might

influence the price is acceptable. but it does not influence the

the mass/height of the imaginary heap of physical gold.

p.s. i also fail to see any bearing of RBS liquidity on the price of gold.

[binjalin]

can I ask a simple question? are ALL the paper trades covered by REAL Au? I mean really? forget the BS from the companies is there enough Gold to cover ALL the paper and futures trading? if not then it all could collapse?

[flying]

can I ask a simple question? are ALL the paper trades covered by REAL Au? I mean really? forget the BS from the companies is there enough Gold to cover ALL the paper and futures trading? if not then it all could collapse?

There is a man named Harvey Organ who has posted stats for years on his site.

http://harveyorgan.blogspot.com/

It is interesting to watch at times the flow.

Paper vs physical has been debated for years

It would appear that many times what is available is traded so the literal answer would of course be no.

There is not physical behind every trade

But as others have pointed out each sale has a counterpart so the game continues.

Is it fair? Is it legal?

These questions again have been asked for years....Some like JP Morgan has been accused, investigated

especially in regards to AG manipulation

Is it a house of cards? I guess no more than banking itself.

After all if every person with money in any given bank went in today & asked for their money

the bank would not be able to complete the transactions. It would be a bank run followed by a bank holiday.

Edited July 11, 2012 by flying

[Naam]

can I ask a simple question? are ALL the paper trades covered by REAL Au? I mean really? forget the BS from the companies is there enough Gold to cover ALL the paper and futures trading? if not then it all could collapse?

of course there is not enough gold to cover all paper issued. but i fail to see any reason why it should collapse. basically there are two types of paper gold. a rather small percentage contains the unconditional right to demand the delivery of physical gold. the majority however can be compensated with "worthless fiat money" based on the prevailing gold price (read the fine print!).

the first one would lead to actual short covering and a gold price explosion (similar to 1980 when the Hunt brothers demanded their physical silver) whereas the latter may not affect the price at all.

of course a number of additional scenarios could surface which may drive the price of gold to unseen heights. they have been mentioned umteenth times in this thread. but no matter how logical the assumptions may be, there is (presently) no hard evidence to back up the possibility for any of these scenarios.

that the often quantitative easing equals hyper-inflation is a lukewarm fart misconception as long as the "printed" money does not find its way to the pockets of those who spend it and thereby cause inflation. we have QE since a few years. most, if not all, of us have less money in our pockets because yields are a fraction what they were before QE. isn't it safe to assume that people with less money in their pockets spend less and that the reduced spending checks inflation?

i am going even further and claim that QE, bolstering bankrupt countries and insolvent financial institutions, is another reason to dampen inflation in future. QE means nothing but an increase of government debt. that this debt can never be reedemed goes without saying. but the debt has to be serviced to avoid default. how is debt serviced? by revenue. what is revenue? taxes are revenue. sooner or later higher taxes will be slapped on people or social services will be cut. both of it will take even more money out of peoples' pockets and less money to spend is the result.

[binjalin]

can I ask a simple question? are ALL the paper trades covered by REAL Au? I mean really? forget the BS from the companies is there enough Gold to cover ALL the paper and futures trading? if not then it all could collapse?

There is a man named Harvey Organ who has posted stats for years on his site.

http://harveyorgan.blogspot.com/

It is interesting to watch at times the flow.

Paper vs physical has been debated for years

It would appear that many times what is available is traded so the literal answer would of course be no.

There is not physical behind every trade

But as others have pointed out each sale has a counterpart so the game continues.

Is it fair? Is it legal?

These questions again have been asked for years....Some like JP Morgan has been accused, investigated

especially in regards to AG manipulation

Is it a house of cards? I guess no more than banking itself.

After all if every person with money in any given bank went in today & asked for their money

the bank would not be able to complete the transactions. It would be a bank run followed by a bank holiday.

yes but isn't that what we FEAR? would it not make more sense to only lend what you can repay? to sell only what you HAVE? jeeze it strikes fear to the heart of me to think that it could (would)? happen one of these days. And you said 'no more than banking itself' and that ain't a great recommendation coz look what happened there! shit and fan come to mind

[binjalin]

can I ask a simple question? are ALL the paper trades covered by REAL Au? I mean really? forget the BS from the companies is there enough Gold to cover ALL the paper and futures trading? if not then it all could collapse?

of course there is not enough gold to cover all paper issued. but i fail to see any reason why it should collapse. basically there are two types of paper gold. a rather small percentage contains the unconditional right to demand the delivery of physical gold. the majority however can be compensated with "worthless fiat money" based on the prevailing gold price (read the fine print!).

the first one would lead to actual short covering and a gold price explosion (similar to 1980 when the Hunt brothers demanded their physical silver) whereas the latter may not affect the price at all.

of course a number of additional scenarios could surface which may drive the price of gold to unseen heights. they have been mentioned umteenth times in this thread. but no matter how logical the assumptions may be, there is (presently) no hard evidence to back up the possibility for any of these scenarios.

that the often quantitative easing equals hyper-inflation is a lukewarm fart misconception as long as the "printed" money does not find its way to the pockets of those who spend it and thereby cause inflation. we have QE since a few years. most, if not all, of us have less money in our pockets because yields are a fraction what they were before QE. isn't it safe to assume that people with less money in their pockets spend less and that the reduced spending checks inflation?

i am going even further and claim that QE, bolstering bankrupt countries and insolvent financial institutions, is another reason to dampen inflation in future. QE means nothing but an increase of government debt. that this debt can never be reedemed goes without saying. but the debt has to be serviced to avoid default. how is debt serviced? by revenue. what is revenue? taxes are revenue. sooner or later higher taxes will be slapped on people or social services will be cut. both of it will take even more money out of peoples' pockets and less money to spend is the result.

well IF everyone asks to cash in? it 'could' happen that's why I wonder at ETF folk who trust they will actually get their gold IF the world collapses

[churchill]

'i am going even further and claim that QE, bolstering bankrupt countries and insolvent financial institutions, is another reason to dampen inflation in future. QE means nothing but an increase of government debt. that this debt can never be reedemed goes without saying. but the debt has to be serviced to avoid default. how is debt serviced? by revenue. what is revenue? taxes are revenue. sooner or later higher taxes will be slapped on people or social services will be cut. both of it will take even more money out of peoples' pockets and less money to spend is the result.'

Sounds like a worsening depression Spain just raised taxes , reduced wages ......Where is the growth coming from to reduce unemployment , to increase tax revenue ....to grow out of the problem

[flying]

yes but isn't that what we FEAR? would it not make more sense to only lend what you can repay? to sell only what you HAVE?

I am guessing you meant to say "only borrow what you can repay".........& sell what you have

Yes of course & that is how I live MY life.

But this has been the instant gratification generation hasn't it? The trend continues

None including the government themselves borrow what they can repay

Consumers rack up credit bills because credit has been too easy to obtain & they want their crap today.

Not when they can afford it.

Sad yes? When I was a kid they had something called lay-away

My mom would buy something say an appliance or a gift for one of us for Christmas

She would take the item to a back counter called lay-away...Put some money on it & the clerk would

jot it down in a book & take the item in the back storage area & put her info on it.

Then every pay day my mom would go in & put $xx dollars on it till it was paid. It was at that time that they gave her the item.

Today you see people use credit to buy a burger at burger king

Of course a big purchase like a home or auto always had a loan but..............You had to qualify.

Your income had to be stable & adequate. Even then when folks did get a mortgage it was a matter of pride to

pay extra & early so they could get it paid off & have a quaint burning of the mortgage party.

I am glad I grew up in those times & learned that way of doing things. I stumbled once when young but have learned &

lived the majority of my life this way.

As for Sell what you have? Well that would kill the casino's they call markets wouldn't it

[Godders]

Can Winnie please have another word with Him Indoors and tell us prols when the world is going to end?

[yoshiwara]

yes but isn't that what we FEAR? would it not make more sense to only lend what you can repay? to sell only what you HAVE?

I am guessing you meant to say "only borrow what you can repay".........& sell what you have

Yes of course & that is how I live MY life.

But this has been the instant gratification generation hasn't it? The trend continues

None including the government themselves borrow what they can repay

Consumers rack up credit bills because credit has been too easy to obtain & they want their crap today.

Not when they can afford it.

Sad yes? When I was a kid they had something called lay-away

My mom would buy something say an appliance or a gift for one of us for Christmas

She would take the item to a back counter called lay-away...Put some money on it & the clerk would

jot it down in a book & take the item in the back storage area & put her info on it.

Then every pay day my mom would go in & put $xx dollars on it till it was paid. It was at that time that they gave her the item.

Today you see people use credit to buy a burger at burger king

Of course a big purchase like a home or auto always had a loan but..............You had to qualify.

Your income had to be stable & adequate. Even then when folks did get a mortgage it was a matter of pride to

pay extra & early so they could get it paid off & have a quaint burning of the mortgage party.

I am glad I grew up in those times & learned that way of doing things. I stumbled once when young but have learned &

lived the majority of my life this way.

As for Sell what you have? Well that would kill the casino's they call markets wouldn't it

No you didn't and you slide over the reality (to suit your interests) but not a crime.

When an individual takes out a mortgage, say for 25-30 years, they do not provide a guarantee that the money will be repaid.

Job may be lost, illness, divorce a whole host of events may happen.

Your mortgage loan is exactly money that you don't have and is a 'promise' to pay in the future.

The bank, mortgage company is taking on risk in making the loan to you.

No different one might say than governments borrowing money against anticipated future receipts.

What is sauce for the goose is also good for the gander. Better not to get on a high horse. Might fall off.

[yoshiwara]

can I ask a simple question? are ALL the paper trades covered by REAL Au? I mean really? forget the BS from the companies is there enough Gold to cover ALL the paper and futures trading? if not then it all could collapse?

There is a man named Harvey Organ who has posted stats for years on his site.

http://harveyorgan.blogspot.com/

It is interesting to watch at times the flow.

Paper vs physical has been debated for years

It would appear that many times what is available is traded so the literal answer would of course be no.

There is not physical behind every trade

But as others have pointed out each sale has a counterpart so the game continues.

Is it fair? Is it legal?

These questions again have been asked for years....Some like JP Morgan has been accused, investigated

especially in regards to AG manipulation

Is it a house of cards? I guess no more than banking itself.

After all if every person with money in any given bank went in today & asked for their money

the bank would not be able to complete the transactions. It would be a bank run followed by a bank holiday.

yes but isn't that what we FEAR? would it not make more sense to only lend what you can repay? to sell only what you HAVE? jeeze it strikes fear to the heart of me to think that it could (would)? happen one of these days. And you said 'no more than banking itself' and that ain't a great recommendation coz look what happened there! shit and fan come to mind

Doesn't work in practice. When you take out a mortgage you are selling part of your future income receipts ie money that you don't have right now. Same with any loan or even credit card debt or even student loan debt.

Now let's move on to insurance. What you are doing here is purchasing risk against the possibility of incurring costs which you cannot pay ie again money you don't have. So you take out insurance, a gamble.

So many of our Mr Nobles with their past mortgages and insurance policies rail against a financial system they are fully a part of.

[yoshiwara]

There is not physical behind every trade

There is not intended to be a physical delivery behind all trades and nor do the participants even think there should be.

It is important to distinguish between futures which are contracts for delivery and options which are not.

Option trades, particularly in commodities, can be both abandoned and settled at expiration in cash equivalent.

Such hedging contributes to price discovery. Physical delivery not required. Perfectly normal.

Those who do not understand the options market think it is a distortion of the 'real' market. It isn't.

[khaan]

yes but isn't that what we FEAR? would it not make more sense to only lend what you can repay? to sell only what you HAVE?

I am guessing you meant to say "only borrow what you can repay".........& sell what you have

Yes of course & that is how I live MY life.

But this has been the instant gratification generation hasn't it? The trend continues

None including the government themselves borrow what they can repay

Consumers rack up credit bills because credit has been too easy to obtain & they want their crap today.

Not when they can afford it.

Sad yes? When I was a kid they had something called lay-away

My mom would buy something say an appliance or a gift for one of us for Christmas

She would take the item to a back counter called lay-away...Put some money on it & the clerk would

jot it down in a book & take the item in the back storage area & put her info on it.

Then every pay day my mom would go in & put $xx dollars on it till it was paid. It was at that time that they gave her the item.

Today you see people use credit to buy a burger at burger king

Of course a big purchase like a home or auto always had a loan but..............You had to qualify.

Your income had to be stable & adequate. Even then when folks did get a mortgage it was a matter of pride to

pay extra & early so they could get it paid off & have a quaint burning of the mortgage party.

I am glad I grew up in those times & learned that way of doing things. I stumbled once when young but have learned &

lived the majority of my life this way.

As for Sell what you have? Well that would kill the casino's they call markets wouldn't it

No you didn't and you slide over the reality (to suit your interests) but not a crime.

When an individual takes out a mortgage, say for 25-30 years, they do not provide a guarantee that the money will be repaid.

Job may be lost, illness, divorce a whole host of events may happen.

Your mortgage loan is exactly money that you don't have and is a 'promise' to pay in the future.

The bank, mortgage company is taking on risk in making the loan to you.

No different one might say than governments borrowing money against anticipated future receipts.

What is sauce for the goose is also good for the gander. Better not to get on a high horse. Might fall off.

you slide over the reality too

[binjalin]

yes but isn't that what we FEAR? would it not make more sense to only lend what you can repay? to sell only what you HAVE?

I am guessing you meant to say "only borrow what you can repay".........& sell what you have

Yes of course & that is how I live MY life.

But this has been the instant gratification generation hasn't it? The trend continues

None including the government themselves borrow what they can repay

Consumers rack up credit bills because credit has been too easy to obtain & they want their crap today.

Not when they can afford it.

Sad yes? When I was a kid they had something called lay-away

My mom would buy something say an appliance or a gift for one of us for Christmas

She would take the item to a back counter called lay-away...Put some money on it & the clerk would

jot it down in a book & take the item in the back storage area & put her info on it.

Then every pay day my mom would go in & put $xx dollars on it till it was paid. It was at that time that they gave her the item.

Today you see people use credit to buy a burger at burger king

Of course a big purchase like a home or auto always had a loan but..............You had to qualify.

Your income had to be stable & adequate. Even then when folks did get a mortgage it was a matter of pride to

pay extra & early so they could get it paid off & have a quaint burning of the mortgage party.

I am glad I grew up in those times & learned that way of doing things. I stumbled once when young but have learned &

lived the majority of my life this way.

As for Sell what you have? Well that would kill the casino's they call markets wouldn't it

No you didn't and you slide over the reality (to suit your interests) but not a crime.

When an individual takes out a mortgage, say for 25-30 years, they do not provide a guarantee that the money will be repaid.

Job may be lost, illness, divorce a whole host of events may happen.

Your mortgage loan is exactly money that you don't have and is a 'promise' to pay in the future.

The bank, mortgage company is taking on risk in making the loan to you.

No different one might say than governments borrowing money against anticipated future receipts.

What is sauce for the goose is also good for the gander. Better not to get on a high horse. Might fall off.

they insist on insurance to cover death etc. but anyway I worked very hard all my life to pay off my mortgage by 50 and manged it and cannot fathom anyone 'over borrowing'

'never a borrower nor a lender be'

[Naam]

Sounds like a worsening depression Spain just raised taxes , reduced wages ......Where is the growth coming from to reduce unemployment , to increase tax revenue ....to grow out of the problem

indeed it does smell of depression and due to globalisation most countries will be affected in one way or another. that's why i don't believe in hyper-inflation but rather expect a deflationary scenario. but then, my view is only the view of a layman who has no bloody idea of macro-economics and who is trying hard to make ends meet living a very frugal life style as a retiree in the Land of Smiles

[Naam]

well IF everyone asks to cash in? it 'could' happen that's why I wonder at ETF folk who trust they will actually get their gold IF the world collapses

if everyone asks to cash in gold and bank balances by receiving "raw" physical cash the financial world will indeed collapse before even a fraction has been paid out. everyone can ask but not receive.

[yoshiwara]

yes but isn't that what we FEAR? would it not make more sense to only lend what you can repay? to sell only what you HAVE?

I am guessing you meant to say "only borrow what you can repay".........& sell what you have

Yes of course & that is how I live MY life.

But this has been the instant gratification generation hasn't it? The trend continues

None including the government themselves borrow what they can repay

Consumers rack up credit bills because credit has been too easy to obtain & they want their crap today.

Not when they can afford it.

Sad yes? When I was a kid they had something called lay-away

My mom would buy something say an appliance or a gift for one of us for Christmas

She would take the item to a back counter called lay-away...Put some money on it & the clerk would

jot it down in a book & take the item in the back storage area & put her info on it.

Then every pay day my mom would go in & put $xx dollars on it till it was paid. It was at that time that they gave her the item.

Today you see people use credit to buy a burger at burger king

Of course a big purchase like a home or auto always had a loan but..............You had to qualify.

Your income had to be stable & adequate. Even then when folks did get a mortgage it was a matter of pride to

pay extra & early so they could get it paid off & have a quaint burning of the mortgage party.

I am glad I grew up in those times & learned that way of doing things. I stumbled once when young but have learned &

lived the majority of my life this way.

As for Sell what you have? Well that would kill the casino's they call markets wouldn't it

No you didn't and you slide over the reality (to suit your interests) but not a crime.

When an individual takes out a mortgage, say for 25-30 years, they do not provide a guarantee that the money will be repaid.

Job may be lost, illness, divorce a whole host of events may happen.

Your mortgage loan is exactly money that you don't have and is a 'promise' to pay in the future.

The bank, mortgage company is taking on risk in making the loan to you.

No different one might say than governments borrowing money against anticipated future receipts.

What is sauce for the goose is also good for the gander. Better not to get on a high horse. Might fall off.

they insist on insurance to cover death etc. but anyway I worked very hard all my life to pay off my mortgage by 50 and manged it and cannot fathom anyone 'over borrowing'

'never a borrower nor a lender be'

Again, if you place any money in a bank, building society etc you are lending money to that institution to receive some interest. The bank/bs will then lend out that money at a higher interest rate to somebody else. This will be a loan at risk.

Even further.. the cheap long-haul flight you take is facilitated by that carrier both borrowing money for purchases and hedging fuel needs on the futures/options market. You sir are directly and indirectly participating in world financial markets irrespective of your own personal balance sheet.

Food, transport, clothing, energy, there is nothing you touch or consume that isn't run on some aspect of debt.

[binjalin]

Again, if you place any money in a bank, building society etc you are lending money to that institution to receive some interest. The bank/bs will then lend out that money at a higher interest rate to somebody else. This will be a loan at risk.

that's true... I have very, very little on deposit (only the 800,000 my visa insists on) but I think avoiding the principal of 'living within one's means' has caused much of the distress

[flying]

No you didn't and you slide over the reality (to suit your interests) but not a crime.

No different one might say than governments borrowing money against anticipated future receipts.

What is sauce for the goose is also good for the gander. Better not to get on a high horse. Might fall off.

How in the world you got that from what I posted with your usual high horse BS is really beyond me....

But hey carry on with your usual blather add nothingness to any topic you choose to crap on.

Edited July 12, 2012 by flying