Where Is Gold Going In This Market

[mania]

No Joke I am making serious money and trying to help the poor who belive gold shall come back in 10 years

Just remeber in 2 years when it will be under 850 who told you

Gold shall come back in 10 years?

If gold does not show a profit at the end of this year it will be the first in 10 years that

it did not. So it may be acceptable. But we have half a year to go. Not that it matters

Will try to remember to check your prediction in 2 years

But you may also be joining the famous VegasVic seer of future gold prices

from the first few pages of this thread in that department.

Predictions are like that 50/50

Why are yo in denial gold is dropping like lead and I am making lots of money I have been telling you this for more than 2 years and all I got is insults from the poor and profits from my trades

I am not in denial nor am I invested for or against gold at this time.

Or any other investment for that matter at this time other than simple interest

I did go large into physical gold back in 2008 & left satisfied in early 2012

I have not re-entered having been satisfied with my gains & not seen the same

opportunity I saw as back then. I am not one that needs to be invested 100% of the time.

As to shorting it is not my style & I do not have the appetite for that.

Good luck to you though & my previous post was just pointing out a few facts.

I am not one for crystal balls

[Naam]

No Joke I am making serious money and trying to help the poor who belive gold shall come back in 10 years

Just remeber in 2 years when it will be under 850 who told you

Gold shall come back in 10 years?

If gold does not show a profit at the end of this year it will be the first in 10 years that

it did not. So it may be acceptable. But we have half a year to go. Not that it matters

Will try to remember to check your prediction in 2 years

But you may also be joining the famous VegasVic seer of future gold prices

from the first few pages of this thread in that department.

Predictions are like that 50/50

Why are yo in denial gold is dropping like lead and I am making lots of money I have been telling you this for more than 2 years and all I got is insults from the poor and profits from my trades

I am not in denial nor am I invested for or against gold at this time.

Or any other investment for that matter at this time other than simple interest

I did go large into physical gold back in 2008 & left satisfied in early 2012

I have not re-entered having been satisfied with my gains & not seen the same

opportunity I saw as back then. I am not one that needs to be invested 100% of the time.

As to shorting it is not my style & I do not have the appetite for that.

Good luck to you though & my previous post was just pointing out a few facts.

I am not one for crystal balls

for anybody with a substantial holding of physical gold, which is not easy to shuffle back and forth, a paper hedge of paper short is a must. starting not necessarily a year ago but definitely since early 2013.

[churchill]

OK Naam...

Yes , easy recommendation looking backwards

What about forwards .Do you believe the bull is over ... I don't ...

I think Gold prices have been managed down ...Lets get it over with ...the bigger/quicker the fall the higher the rise ??

[Naam]

OK Naam...

Yes , easy recommendation looking backwards

What about forwards .Do you believe the bull is over ... I don't ...

I think Gold prices have been managed down ...Lets get it over with ...the bigger/quicker the fall the higher the rise ??

one does not have to look backward to know that "two plus two equals four" Churchill. hedging Gold via certificates or options is easier than taking candy from a toddler. all it takes are a few clicks with the mouse (assuming you are able to "click" during the trading hours of your bank).

i don't want to participate in the discussion whether specifically Gold has been managed (down and up!), especially not when it concerns "conspiracy". all asset prices are "managed", whether by simple offer and demand, lemming behaviour of investors, fraudulous actions and perfectly legal manipulations.

my personal view is that we have not seen the lows yet. but that does not stop me from buying physical Gold again (partly hedged by paper shorts). of course i don't hedge all our physical. that could turn out to be a zero sum game or most probably a painful loss should the tide turn suddenly.

[churchill]

Does 2 plus 2 always equal 4 in the financial world

probably not ..after commissions charges etc etc

2 plus 2 probably equals 3.5

Then if you want Physical , if you can get it , 2 plus 2 may equal 3

its a rigged market

[churchill]

'i don't want to participate in the discussion whether specifically Gold has been managed (down and up!), especially not when it concerns "conspiracy". all asset prices are "managed", whether by simple offer and demand, lemming behaviour of investors, fraudulous actions and perfectly legal manipulations.'

STOP THE MANIPULATION

This is now accepted as market action ....Yes it happens but why, You accept it ....for the benefit of Wall st and all ...But why accept it , because it happens ....It is wrong , illegal , It screws us , whilst protecting the bankers ... Jail the Wank..s

STOP THE MANIPULATION

[yoshiwara]

STOP THE MANIPULATION

Clearly the so-called manipulation didn't stop you holding the metal, and by the way we don't care what percentage of your personal wealth is held in gold. Truth is you use that percentage and manipulation ploy to cover for the fact that continued holding of gold has been an absolute disaster for those buying into and acting upon the gold story. Only the end of the world will save them. RighteHo. Today $1228. Cue egg on shirts everywhere.

Edited June 26, 2013 by yoshiwara

[mccw]

Anything below $1,400 an ounce is sort of a red line for South African gold producers, David Davis, a Johannesburg-based analyst at SBG Securities told Bloomberg. Theres a vast difference between what labor unions are demanding and what South African mines can afford. It points towards long drawn out negotiations that could end in dispute.

The six-member FTSE/JSE Africa Gold Mining Index dropped 3.6 percent in Wednesdays early trade in London, extending losses into the seventh consecutive day. Over the past year the index has already lost more than 50 percent.

The MSCI World Metals and Mining Index compared to Africas indicator lost much less, having dropped by as much as 19 percent.

[mccw]

The above should be in quotes and from rt quoting other sources

(For the mods- The TV app wouldn't let me modify- just can up with a blank box- not the text to be changed)

[Cambodger]

I wonder how many of these gold bugs have a big box of old comics and baseball/ football cards stashed away that they bought in the eighties at inflated prices with the belief it would make them rich in 30 years.

[Naam]

'i don't want to participate in the discussion whether specifically Gold has been managed (down and up!), especially not when it concerns "conspiracy". all asset prices are "managed", whether by simple offer and demand, lemming behaviour of investors, fraudulous actions and perfectly legal manipulations.'

STOP THE MANIPULATION

This is now accepted as market action ....Yes it happens but why, You accept it ....for the benefit of Wall st and all ...But why accept it , because it happens ....It is wrong , illegal , It screws us , whilst protecting the bankers ... Jail the Wank..s

STOP THE MANIPULATION

what i accept or don't accept means for the manipulators less than a lukewarm fart inmidst of a hurricane. i don't have the choice "accept/reject" and neither have you. irrelevant and/or incorrect outbursts "whilst protecting the bankers" won't help either.

you gladly accepted that Gold was "manipulated up" for a decade, mostly by parties with an agenda, now you have to accept the "down manipulation". the latter [manipulators] still broadcast their ridiculous mantras, albeit frothing around their mouths and their believers parrot them.

summary (personal view): it was about time that a lot of investors learned their lesson that the markets are not proceeding in one-way streets. and it was about time that some believers found out that "intrinsic value" is something very relative and not tangible.

having said so, i pity those who fell for the charlatanes and bought Gold although they could not really afford it.

[LibertyNinja1776]

for anybody with a substantial holding of physical gold, which is not easy to shuffle back and forth, a paper hedge of paper short is a must. starting not necessarily a year ago but definitely since early 2013.

Just thought I'd share this - from one trader I follow who has subscribers hedging since ~$1700.

(Larry Edelson, former pro commodities trader. He publishes the Real Wealth Report, subscription does not cost an arm and a leg.)

Recommended to remove the first half of gold hedges on June 6 if I remember correctly.

This out this morning 6.30 ET (US) -

Grab these profits NOW …

Dear Member,

Wow, this is exciting! Gold and silver are plunging again this morning, zeroing in on the precise time and price levels I’ve been targeting for a major low.

Gold is down over $42 as I pen this flash alert (6:50 AM ET), trading at the $1,229 level. Silver is down over $0.92, trading at the $18.60 level.

Without further delay, it’s time to take some action. Specifically …

To act on the above three recommendations, here are the instructions you would give your broker, or enter online:

1. It’s time to exit the remaining half of your gold hedge by selling your remaining shares in the ETF ProShares UltraShort Gold (GLL). We are close enough to a major low to exit that remaining hedge position.

2. It is also time to grab all remaining profits on the ProShares UltraShort Silver (ZSL), where the gains are now as much as 125.32%.

3. It is also time to grab your profits on the ProShares UltraShort 20+ Year Treasury (TBT). As you know, bond prices have been clobbered as of late, but a bounce is overdue. This makes now the ideal time to grab your gains of as much as 18.59% on TBT.

Go ahead and get these orders in as soon as possible.

First, SELL ALL of my remaining shares in ProShares UltraShort Gold, symbol GLL, at the market.

Second, SELL ALL of my remaining shares in ProShares UltraShort Silver, symbol ZSL, at the market. Then cancel the good-till-cancelled protective sell stop at $73.54.

Third, SELL ALL of my shares in ProShares UltraShort 20+ Year Treasury, symbol TBT, at the market. Then cancel the good-till-cancelled protective sell stop at $62.22.

Best wishes,

Larry

He's been quite good on gold, wider stock market timing not always brilliant. But worth consideration at the current price.

(He mentioned the 1225 as the next support level below 1350 months ago actually.)

Or use the approach of Marc Faber at Hedge Funds World 2012 - "You are all intelligent people... buy every month a little bit of gold." He also says if it goes down allocate a little bit more capital to it.

Edited June 26, 2013 by LibertyNinja1776

[Naam]

Does 2 plus 2 always equal 4 in the financial world

probably not ..after commissions charges etc etc

2 plus 2 probably equals 3.5

Then if you want Physical , if you can get it , 2 plus 2 may equal 3

its a rigged market

i have no idea what fancy commissions your bank charges. i pay 0.15% buying and selling. in the case of hedging physical Gold via paper transactions it is a miniscule amount compared to this years loss of the yellow metal of 27%.

[LibertyNinja1776]

Does 2 plus 2 always equal 4 in the financial world

probably not ..after commissions charges etc etc

2 plus 2 probably equals 3.5

Then if you want Physical , if you can get it , 2 plus 2 may equal 3

its a rigged market

i have no idea what fancy commissions your bank charges. i pay 0.15% buying and selling. in the case of hedging physical Gold via paper transactions it is a miniscule amount compared to this years loss of the yellow metal of 27%.

Yeah, ETFs and CFDs are great for hedging. Especially the ones you can trade 24 hours a day.

Sad that premiums can put off many average joes from buying physical gold/silver. Great having places like BKK and HK help out with that, for gold anyway.

Edited June 27, 2013 by LibertyNinja1776

[lannarebirth]

'i don't want to participate in the discussion whether specifically Gold has been managed (down and up!), especially not when it concerns "conspiracy". all asset prices are "managed", whether by simple offer and demand, lemming behaviour of investors, fraudulous actions and perfectly legal manipulations.'

STOP THE MANIPULATION

This is now accepted as market action ....Yes it happens but why, You accept it ....for the benefit of Wall st and all ...But why accept it , because it happens ....It is wrong , illegal , It screws us , whilst protecting the bankers ... Jail the Wank..s

STOP THE MANIPULATION

what i accept or don't accept means for the manipulators less than a lukewarm fart inmidst of a hurricane. i don't have the choice "accept/reject" and neither have you. irrelevant and/or incorrect outbursts "whilst protecting the bankers" won't help either.

you gladly accepted that Gold was "manipulated up" for a decade, mostly by parties with an agenda, now you have to accept the "down manipulation". the latter [manipulators] still broadcast their ridiculous mantras, albeit frothing around their mouths and their believers parrot them.

summary (personal view): it was about time that a lot of investors learned their lesson that the markets are not proceeding in one-way streets. and it was about time that some believers found out that "intrinsic value" is something very relative and not tangible.

having said so, i pity those who fell for the charlatanes and bought Gold although they could not really afford it.

I just don't see where there is anything to complain about. Gold is up something like 400% in the past 12 years or so. That's a fantastic return over that particular time period.

[lannarebirth]

for anybody with a substantial holding of physical gold, which is not easy to shuffle back and forth, a paper hedge of paper short is a must. starting not necessarily a year ago but definitely since early 2013.

Just thought I'd share this - from one trader I follow who has subscribers hedging since ~$1700.

(Larry Edelson, former pro commodities trader. He publishes the Real Wealth Report, subscription does not cost an arm and a leg.)

Recommended to remove the first half of gold hedges on June 6 if I remember correctly.

This out this morning 6.30 ET (US) -

Grab these profits NOW …

Dear Member,

Wow, this is exciting! Gold and silver are plunging again this morning, zeroing in on the precise time and price levels I’ve been targeting for a major low.

Gold is down over $42 as I pen this flash alert (6:50 AM ET), trading at the $1,229 level. Silver is down over $0.92, trading at the $18.60 level.

Without further delay, it’s time to take some action. Specifically …

To act on the above three recommendations, here are the instructions you would give your broker, or enter online:

1. It’s time to exit the remaining half of your gold hedge by selling your remaining shares in the ETF ProShares UltraShort Gold (GLL). We are close enough to a major low to exit that remaining hedge position.

2. It is also time to grab all remaining profits on the ProShares UltraShort Silver (ZSL), where the gains are now as much as 125.32%.

3. It is also time to grab your profits on the ProShares UltraShort 20+ Year Treasury (TBT). As you know, bond prices have been clobbered as of late, but a bounce is overdue. This makes now the ideal time to grab your gains of as much as 18.59% on TBT.

Go ahead and get these orders in as soon as possible.

First, SELL ALL of my remaining shares in ProShares UltraShort Gold, symbol GLL, at the market.

Second, SELL ALL of my remaining shares in ProShares UltraShort Silver, symbol ZSL, at the market. Then cancel the good-till-cancelled protective sell stop at $73.54.

Third, SELL ALL of my shares in ProShares UltraShort 20+ Year Treasury, symbol TBT, at the market. Then cancel the good-till-cancelled protective sell stop at $62.22.

Best wishes,

Larry

He's been quite good on gold, wider stock market timing not always brilliant. But worth consideration at the current price.

(He mentioned the 1225 as the next support level below 1350 months ago actually.)

Or use the approach of Marc Faber at Hedge Funds World 2012 - "You are all intelligent people... buy every month a little bit of gold." He also says if it goes down allocate a little bit more capital to it.

Those ultra short funds are not good vehicles for position trades. The underlying can move in the direction you wish and you can still lose money. They are better for trading in and out of.

[yoshiwara]

'i don't want to participate in the discussion whether specifically Gold has been managed (down and up!), especially not when it concerns "conspiracy". all asset prices are "managed", whether by simple offer and demand, lemming behaviour of investors, fraudulous actions and perfectly legal manipulations.'

STOP THE MANIPULATION

This is now accepted as market action ....Yes it happens but why, You accept it ....for the benefit of Wall st and all ...But why accept it , because it happens ....It is wrong , illegal , It screws us , whilst protecting the bankers ... Jail the Wank..s

STOP THE MANIPULATION

what i accept or don't accept means for the manipulators less than a lukewarm fart inmidst of a hurricane. i don't have the choice "accept/reject" and neither have you. irrelevant and/or incorrect outbursts "whilst protecting the bankers" won't help either.

you gladly accepted that Gold was "manipulated up" for a decade, mostly by parties with an agenda, now you have to accept the "down manipulation". the latter [manipulators] still broadcast their ridiculous mantras, albeit frothing around their mouths and their believers parrot them.

summary (personal view): it was about time that a lot of investors learned their lesson that the markets are not proceeding in one-way streets. and it was about time that some believers found out that "intrinsic value" is something very relative and not tangible.

having said so, i pity those who fell for the charlatanes and bought Gold although they could not really afford it.

I just don't see where there is anything to complain about. Gold is up something like 400% in the past 12 years or so. That's a fantastic return over that particular time period.

But looking back 12 years doesn't always work and is not a guaranteed forecast of 12 years forward. Edited June 27, 2013 by yoshiwara

[LibertyNinja1776]

Those ultra short funds are not good vehicles for position trades. The underlying can move in the direction you wish and you can still lose money. They are better for trading in and out of.

Yep, but they're not too bad over the course of a few months. I personally use CFDs for gold hedges.

I think he recommends them because they're easy to access for the US clients, and many of them must be old folks who aren't serious traders. Beats losing out on spreads at the gold dealers shop every time.

Edited June 27, 2013 by LibertyNinja1776

[lannarebirth]

'i don't want to participate in the discussion whether specifically Gold has been managed (down and up!), especially not when it concerns "conspiracy". all asset prices are "managed", whether by simple offer and demand, lemming behaviour of investors, fraudulous actions and perfectly legal manipulations.'

STOP THE MANIPULATION

This is now accepted as market action ....Yes it happens but why, You accept it ....for the benefit of Wall st and all ...But why accept it , because it happens ....It is wrong , illegal , It screws us , whilst protecting the bankers ... Jail the Wank..s

STOP THE MANIPULATION

what i accept or don't accept means for the manipulators less than a lukewarm fart inmidst of a hurricane. i don't have the choice "accept/reject" and neither have you. irrelevant and/or incorrect outbursts "whilst protecting the bankers" won't help either.

you gladly accepted that Gold was "manipulated up" for a decade, mostly by parties with an agenda, now you have to accept the "down manipulation". the latter [manipulators] still broadcast their ridiculous mantras, albeit frothing around their mouths and their believers parrot them.

summary (personal view): it was about time that a lot of investors learned their lesson that the markets are not proceeding in one-way streets. and it was about time that some believers found out that "intrinsic value" is something very relative and not tangible.

having said so, i pity those who fell for the charlatanes and bought Gold although they could not really afford it.

I just don't see where there is anything to complain about. Gold is up something like 400% in the past 12 years or so. That's a fantastic return over that particular time period.

But looking back 12 years doesn't always work and is not a guaranteed forecast of 12 years forward.

Well it works for Gold, which is what I was talking about and I wasn't suggesting that had any predictive value.

[lannarebirth]

Those ultra short funds are not good vehicles for position trades. The underlying can move in the direction you wish and you can still lose money. They are better for trading in and out of.

Yep, but they're not too bad over the course of a few months. I personally use CFDs for gold hedges.

I think he recommends them because they're easy to access for the US clients, and many of them must be old folks who aren't serious traders. Beats losing out on spreads at the gold dealers shop every time.

No, it is bad for a few months. Unless it only goes in one direction. Better to use the a 1X ETF for a position trade and then pile on the margin when you are more confident of a big move in your direction.

[LibertyNinja1776]

I just don't see where there is anything to complain about. Gold is up something like 400% in the past 12 years or so. That's a fantastic return over that particular time period.

But looking back 12 years doesn't always work and is not a guaranteed forecast of 12 years forward.

Well it works for Gold, which is what I was talking about and I wasn't suggesting that had any predictive value.

Yep, there's an endpoint to how low the down manipulation can work price-wise. Time-wise I also think it has to be fairly soon. Can't rule out another leg down though.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-26/gold-drops-below-its-average-cash-cost Price-wise this piece and the last paragraph in it has to sum it up I think.

[yoshiwara]

Well it works for Gold, which is what I was talking about and I wasn't suggesting that had any predictive value.

It doesn't work for 12 years backward in 1992. It doesn't work for gold going back 2 years. It works for gold the last 12 years. It doesn't work for gold when one always goes back 12 years. So what you have said is that looking in one's rear-view mirror and looking at a particular time frame for those who purchased at a particular time, they are still ahead. So what? You can say 'it worked for gold' (looking at these price points). You can't say 'It works for gold' (as a formula). Edited June 27, 2013 by yoshiwara

[lannarebirth]

I just don't see where there is anything to complain about. Gold is up something like 400% in the past 12 years or so. That's a fantastic return over that particular time period.

But looking back 12 years doesn't always work and is not a guaranteed forecast of 12 years forward.

Well it works for Gold, which is what I was talking about and I wasn't suggesting that had any predictive value.

Yep, there's an endpoint to how low the down manipulation can work price-wise. Time-wise I also think it has to be fairly soon. Can't rule out another leg down though.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-26/gold-drops-below-its-average-cash-cost Price-wise this piece and the last paragraph in it has to sum it up I think.

Never mind.

[lannarebirth]

Well it works for Gold, which is what I was talking about and I wasn't suggesting that had any predictive value.

It doesn't work for 12 years backward in 1992. It doesn't work for gold going back 2 years. It works for gold the last 12 years. It doesn't work for gold when one always goes back 12 years. So what you have said is that looking in one's rear-view mirror and looking at a particular time frame for those who purchased at a particular time, they are still ahead. So what? You can say 'it worked for gold' (looking at these price points). You can't say 'It works for gold' (as a formula).

Ok, I'm glad you figured that out. I thought I was going to have to draw you a picture.

[LibertyNinja1776]

To say gold is simply a constant store of value, or a hedge against inflation is oversimplifying. Dollars are borrowed into existence, there are cycles involved.

Maybe this sums it up well.

I don't buy the $20,000 target though.

It doesn't cover the short term very well too.

Edited June 27, 2013 by LibertyNinja1776

[LibertyNinja1776]

Another assumption we make. Short term, dollar vs gold is correlated. But this isn't always true either. http://www.peakprosperity.com/blog/81746/charting-gold (shows a poor correlation with dollar. and QE also)

As the european situation deteriorates we could see something interesting: Dollar up, gold up too?

http://finance.moneyandmarkets.com/reports/GST/062613/summit.php?ccode=0626135616272GST&[email protected]&sc=RWRA&ec=5616272

So gold bottoming & going higher during a european deflationary event? Maybe.

Any thoughts?

Edited June 27, 2013 by LibertyNinja1776

[yoshiwara]

Another assumption we make. Short term, dollar vs gold is correlated. But this isn't always true either. http://www.peakprosperity.com/blog/81746/charting-gold (shows a poor correlation with dollar. and QE also)

As the european situation deteriorates we could see something interesting: Dollar up, gold up too?

http://finance.moneyandmarkets.com/reports/GST/062613/summit.php?ccode=0626135616272GST&[email protected]&sc=RWRA&ec=5616272

So gold bottoming & going higher during a european deflationary event? Maybe.

Any thoughts?

Oh good. We're back to crystal balls now.

[yoshiwara]

Well it works for Gold, which is what I was talking about and I wasn't suggesting that had any predictive value.

It doesn't work for 12 years backward in 1992. It doesn't work for gold going back 2 years. It works for gold the last 12 years. It doesn't work for gold when one always goes back 12 years. So what you have said is that looking in one's rear-view mirror and looking at a particular time frame for those who purchased at a particular time, they are still ahead. So what? You can say 'it worked for gold' (looking at these price points). You can't say 'It works for gold' (as a formula).

Ok, I'm glad you figured that out. I thought I was going to have to draw you a picture.

No need to reinvent the wheel. Plenty of graphs out there.

[churchill]

Watch out

'Russian Market ‏@russian_market50m

Old Swiss Banker tells me that Gold will fall to $750; Silver to $12 in 7 weeks -> quotes forced liquidation at central banks incl. #SNB'

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Watch out

'Russian Market ‏@russian_market50m

Old Swiss Banker tells me that Gold will fall to $750; Silver to $12 in 7 weeks -> quotes forced liquidation at central banks incl. #SNB'

I am a chart trader but usually don't trade gold. It's choppy acting market so I focus on the EUR/USD

$750 is entirely possible but it's going to be spectacle of war around $1000.

After low to mid 900's resistance levels then its a free fall to 700's.

It could definitely rally off of $1000 and make a good if ultimately futile show of strength.

1000 level will be epic religious war zone