Risk Of Buying Land

[CHFarang]

Hi there,

amazing forum, I've been reading a lot here, yet this is my first posting. Living and working since 4 years in the south, my wife from udorn.

My wife is going to buy 22 rais up in Udorn, Baan Phue area. It's this government project land so we do not actually get the papers, just doing a contract with the current owner. I've read enough to know that this is not save, might loose the land, etc. But this is my wife's risk and she knows all those people and thinks it's not a problem. I can live with this since we buy for 15'000 baht a rai which seems to me a good price, no flooding area, already used for sugar cane for a few years, road access, etc.

To come to my question; Is the only risk to loose the land or is it actually illegal and my wife could get in some trouble with this?

The main purpose to buy the land is to give the family something to do and earn there own money instead of living on what they get from my wife and her sister.

Thanks in anticipation

CHFarang

[IsaanAussie]

Hi there,

amazing forum, I've been reading a lot here, yet this is my first posting. Living and working since 4 years in the south, my wife from udorn.

My wife is going to buy 22 rais up in Udorn, Baan Phue area. It's this government project land so we do not actually get the papers, just doing a contract with the current owner. I've read enough to know that this is not save, might loose the land, etc. But this is my wife's risk and she knows all those people and thinks it's not a problem. I can live with this since we buy for 15'000 baht a rai which seems to me a good price, no flooding area, already used for sugar cane for a few years, road access, etc.

To come to my question; Is the only risk to loose the land or is it actually illegal and my wife could get in some trouble with this?

The main purpose to buy the land is to give the family something to do and earn there own money instead of living on what they get from my wife and her sister.

Thanks in anticipation

CHFarang

Hi my assumed Swiss friend CH welcome,

I do not want to be presumptive but I assume that the risk capital on the land is not the issue. So with that in mind, I offer what benefit my nine years of living here has for you.

If the land is acquired and the family works it, and lets assume that they will actually do that so there is not a constant "additional" labour requirement. The issue for your wife, and I presume yourself, will be funding whatever they choose to grow. Farming equipment, seeding, planting, fertiliser etc..etc.. plus the cost of living while it grows should be calculated in advance as no farming enterprise will yield an instant result. Margins here are very slim and returns long term as they are anywhere in farming. Compound all of that with the onset of the dry season and the cost of establishing "self-sufficiency" will be quite high.

Before you become part of this equation, perhaps your wife and yourself should sit down and consider the non land purchase overhead costs, how much, and how can that expense be accounted for.

Remember that Thai people do not like to create problems for others and in "farang speak" are as a result reasonably economical with the truth.

Good luck, risk nothing but the money as life is too short.

Isaanaussie

Edited October 21, 2008 by IsaanAussie

[CHFarang]

Thanks Issan Aussie,

They want to grow sugar cane as this is what some others are doing as well and what they know best. there are uncles, cousins, etc who will be working the land, so besides the fertilizer and initial investment there shouldn't be too much.

Cost of living; well, that's what i take care of now already and what i am trying to reduce / stop by giving them this land...

What are you doing up there? And what area are you living?

Cheers,

[IsaanAussie]

Thanks Issan Aussie,

They want to grow sugar cane as this is what some others are doing as well and what they know best. there are uncles, cousins, etc who will be working the land, so besides the fertilizer and initial investment there shouldn't be too much.

Cost of living; well, that's what i take care of now already and what i am trying to reduce / stop by giving them this land...

What are you doing up there? And what area are you living?

Cheers,

CH,

I am in ythe process of moving up to Sisaket permanently. Currently, rice and a range of things being tested for animal feed production are the main things. All in preparation for a small pig farm which is under construction. A few chickens and some fish...

Two observations. Thai people are mostly generous when it comes to handing over money and the expectation is that farangs have heaps and wont miss it. I have fought hard to change this preception within our family and now contribute our fair share but expect that they contribute too. Nothing for nothing, you can feed a lazy man forever.

Second thought and again this is only my personal observation. I have often found that people will claim knowledge of a certain trade or skill when in reality they may only have seen others doing it or have been told the basics. If they really know then as you say it shouldn't cost much, if they dont then look out as there maybe a lot of cost in finally getting it right.

Isaanaussie

[Gary A]

I found a beautiful piece of land in the mountains near our home. It is walled in on three sides by high rock faces. I has sugar cane planted. It was shown to me by a Thai friend of mine. I went home and told my Thai wife. She asked exactly where it was at. After I told her, she said the lady can't sell it and we can't buy it. She said that land can only be used by the original squatter family and if the government decides they want the land back, they will take it.

ADDED - It was 12 rai and the price was 600,000 baht.

Edited October 23, 2008 by Gary A

[slapout]

Isaan A. said several things that are worth their weight in gold. The 1'economical with the truth' and 2'people claiming knowledge with little/no hands on experience' are classic. Also remember that family labor will more than likely expect pay each day they show up at the farm. As a futher note "family labor" seem to spend a lot of time in the shade discussing what to do, who will they assign to do it, best method (refer to 2), who will furnish lunch, snacks, beer, whiskey etc (you will probably pay) You and your wife will have to be personaly involved in day to day operation (on site) and as has been noted many times by old hands on TV, the farang input is more than likely ignored or discounted , unless it goes thru a Thai (your wife)

[IsaanAussie]

Isaan A. said several things that are worth their weight in gold. The 1'economical with the truth' and 2'people claiming knowledge with little/no hands on experience' are classic. Also remember that family labor will more than likely expect pay each day they show up at the farm. As a futher note "family labor" seem to spend a lot of time in the shade discussing what to do, who will they assign to do it, best method (refer to 2), who will furnish lunch, snacks, beer, whiskey etc (you will probably pay) You and your wife will have to be personaly involved in day to day operation (on site) and as has been noted many times by old hands on TV, the farang input is more than likely ignored or discounted , unless it goes thru a Thai (your wife)

Slapout,

You have obviously been there and done that. Completely agree. As I have stated before, I stay out of the financials in public, let the BIL run the work after he understands what is needed. My job is then to steer him in the desired direction. Works well, and you get a days work out of the family as well.

Isaanaussie

[CHFarang]

thanks for all the inputs. I am looking forward to this project and will defenitely keep you guys posted if all goes well...

I know my FIL for 4 years now and living and working in the south (where people tend to be a bit lazier than up north), tought me something about how to handle things and people, i am responsable for over 100 thai staff here at the the moment... so i still belief we can get it right, i bit of optimism can't be wrong:)

Cheers

[brahmburgers]

Isaan A. said several things that are worth their weight in gold. The 1'economical with the truth' and 2'people claiming knowledge with little/no hands on experience' are classic. Also remember that family labor will more than likely expect pay each day they show up at the farm. As a futher note "family labor" seem to spend a lot of time in the shade discussing what to do, who will they assign to do it, best method (refer to 2), who will furnish lunch, snacks, beer, whiskey etc (you will probably pay) You and your wife will have to be personaly involved in day to day operation (on site) and as has been noted many times by old hands on TV, the farang input is more than likely ignored or discounted , unless it goes thru a Thai (your wife)

I agree. The assumption that providing land and shelter to a Thai family will somehow get them to become somewhat self-sufficient is naive. Because you are a farang, they will expect you to also provide support.

Also, each week they're on the land, they'll think of the land as their own. It will decreasingly matter, in their view, that you paid for it initially. So, if you can detach from the idea of owning the land, and can take whatever curve balls come along later (split up with wife, etc) then you'll do ok. Indeed, you may even enjoy much of the experiences - interacting with the family and friends, etc. - much of that can be fulfilling and even enjoyable.

[Maizefarmer]

Hi there,

amazing forum, I've been reading a lot here, yet this is my first posting. Living and working since 4 years in the south, my wife from udorn.

My wife is going to buy 22 rais up in Udorn, Baan Phue area. It's this government project land so we do not actually get the papers, just doing a contract with the current owner. I've read enough to know that this is not save, might loose the land, etc. But this is my wife's risk and she knows all those people and thinks it's not a problem. I can live with this since we buy for 15'000 baht a rai which seems to me a good price, no flooding area, already used for sugar cane for a few years, road access, etc.

To come to my question; Is the only risk to loose the land or is it actually illegal and my wife could get in some trouble with this?

The main purpose to buy the land is to give the family something to do and earn there own money instead of living on what they get from my wife and her sister.

Thanks in anticipation

CHFarang

My opinion: I think youre fairly safe - but if care to scan in and send me the papers (in Thai - thats fine), I'll be happy to look them over and express a more informed opinion. Have pm'd you my email adress.

[CHFarang]

Again, i am amazed by the support i am getting here. the thing is; i really do not think of this land as mine, but rather as a support to the family to help them selves instead of waiting for monthly payments from there kids. her mother will sign the contract so it's going to be her land anyway. As for the comments that they might not be able to work the land, just claiming to have the knowledge, this i can defenitely say it's not the case sinc they have been farmers all there lifes and uncles and cousins are all working in sugar cane as well.

For me it hopefully helps to get my FIL a better income and maybe a better idea of possibilities with farming in Issan, i don't want to work in Hotels until i die, so it might be an option to really invest in Issan farming land and settle down there in a couple years. Still trying to find out what amount of investment is needed to ensure a decent life up in issan. but i guess from what i read so far one needs at least 200 rai and around 2 milion baht for other investments and the first year or 2 to live from, not even talking about the house yet. That brings me to around 6++ Mio, depending on the land prices. Guess i'll have to work a bit longer yet.

correct me if i calculated completely wrong:)

CHF

[slapout]

With all the questions about price of land in various parts of Thailand, whats it worth, can I make a living etc.If we throw out all the descussion of various land type, paper, who will farm it etc. Whats your thoughts on what is land worth a rai which will be used for food grains (rice,corn, etc) veggies etc in off season? I know you need more factors to give a accurate guesstimate but add those in yourself if you want to contribute your knowledge. The point I am trying to make is we hear about 25 to 35,000/ rai for farm land where its a single cash crop/year area due to water, the crop etc. When I look at this from a growers view it looks to be too expensive. Granted I am thinking in terms of large farms in US where if you said a quarter (400 rai) was for sale for 320 to 400,000 dollar, the locals would call the men with the white wrap around suits. It just seems that farm land in many areas is over priced, but that may be only Thai to farang and not Thai to Thai.

[BlackJack]

Faced the same issues in the south

decided to RENT the land (your spouse will not like this)

that sorted out a few dreamers

by renting you can see if its what you want to do long term

Thais rent the land also

think about it

if all goes belly up then you can walk away

you can torch the buildings or pull it down and rebuilt somewhere else