Should A Woman Be Allowed to hold the office of President of the USA?

[neverbetter]

Hi All,

I'm very interested in relocating to Thailand and trying to understand how high/low are my chances to find a job here.

I have been looking in many forums&sites and read a lot of contradicting information, so I will really appreciate any advise on this issue.

I'm 26 years old, live in Israel. I have B.Sc in mathematics & computer science from the best israeli university.

I have graduated 5 years ago and since then worked as a developer, senior developer, application development expert( architect) and team leader in several international high tech companies. I was working for one of the world leading TelCo companies for the last 3 years. Before that I worked in banking industry and in IT start up company.I have extensive knowledge and experience in various IT areas including majority of the Java related technologies, .Net, internet related technologies, several OS, DB etc. I was involved in almost every possible stage of application development including requirements analysis, design, development, implementation, customization, delivering, testing etc. Generally, I consider myself as a high professional IT expert.

I do not speak Thai language at all, but willing to learn it.

My questions are:

1. Is it possible for me to find a job in Bangkok for a company that will grant a work permit&Visa for me?

2. Currently i earn about 300,000 baht a month in Israel. I know that salaries in Thailand are much lower, but still I've heard of people earning this amount. Is there a chance to get at least 200000 a month here? If not, what is the amount I can get?

3. Is this realistic or am I being a dreamer?

Thanks a lot

Edited October 26, 2008 by neverbetter

[singa-traz]

1. Yes, it's possible.

2: Thai programmers, with the same impressive experience, earn between 40 to 60KTHB per month. Some earn more.

3: 200KTHB with your experience ... in Thailand ... I wish you good luck.

Why can't you continue to work for your company/customer, remotely from Thailand.

That should be more feasible.

[kiakaha]

only 5 years experience ? loads of thais with way more experience than this working in advanced technical roles with multinational organisations. a thai with 10 years experience in a solution architect role (at companys i'm familiar with) might get a 100K a month base salary at a top multinational firm, even less at a local thai company.

therefore your desired role and salary band will realistically only be achievable via :

1) getting transferred in with an existing multinational with operations in Thailand

2) its not what you know its who you know...your network of contacts

3) starting your own business

[kiakaha]

\

Why can't you continue to work for your company/customer, remotely from Thailand.

That should be more feasible.

potentially an option however visa and work permit issues are usually the caveat with this option (i dont advocate working illegally in thailand)

[neverbetter]

Thank you for your replies

Unfortunately these are the kind of answers i was expecting

I'm currently checking the option of moving to another position in my company to Bangkok branch. The problem is that this branch is very small and seem not to have open positions now. Moreover since the salaries for locals are as low as you say, i don't see a reason for bringing me there. It's cheaper for them to have local staff.

Remote work is also an option, but I doubt they will agree.

I was told that foriegners are valued better than Thais, is this true? Are you saying that the maximum I can pretend for (assuming I don't have any connections) is 50,000 bt?

How much do I actually need here for a comfortable leaving (I'm single), considering the fact I want to save something too?

[endure]

If you were an employer and you had the choice of taking on someone who spoke your language, who was willing to work for 30,000bt a month and who could walk through the door and start work tomorrow or someone who wanted twice that much, who didn't speak, read or write a word of your language and who would involve you in days of paperwork before they could start work for you which would you choose?

[neverbetter]

If you were an employer and you had the choice of taking on someone who spoke your language, who was willing to work for 30,000bt a month and who could walk through the door and start work tomorrow or someone who wanted twice that much, who didn't speak, read or write a word of your language and who would involve you in days of paperwork before they could start work for you which would you choose?

Oh in my country I saw many foreigners who don't speak hebrew at all and still work in IT industry and I also saw people who earn much more than others on the same position in case they really worth it. But Israel is not a good example since it is high-tech based society, and it is generally accepted to pay much more if you are good enough

[think_too_mut]

2. Currently i earn about 300,000 baht a month in Israel.

My Engineers, at a large computer MNC that pays better than average in Tokyo, with twice your experience - earn half your money.

And with real skills, not "teach yourself XYZ in 21 days" from bookstore.

Edited October 27, 2008 by think_too_mut

[OriginalPoster]

Hi All,

I'm very interested in relocating to Thailand and trying to understand how high/low are my chances to find a job here.

I have been looking in many forums&sites and read a lot of contradicting information, so I will really appreciate any advise on this issue.

I'm 26 years old, live in Israel. I have B.Sc in mathematics & computer science from the best israeli university.

I have graduated 5 years ago and since then worked as a developer, senior developer, application development expert( architect) and team leader in several international high tech companies. I was working for one of the world leading TelCo companies for the last 3 years. Before that I worked in banking industry and in IT start up company.I have extensive knowledge and experience in various IT areas including majority of the Java related technologies, .Net, internet related technologies, several OS, DB etc. I was involved in almost every possible stage of application development including requirements analysis, design, development, implementation, customization, delivering, testing etc. Generally, I consider myself as a high professional IT expert.

I do not speak Thai language at all, but willing to learn it.

My questions are:

1. Is it possible for me to find a job in Bangkok for a company that will grant a work permit&Visa for me?

2. Currently i earn about 300,000 baht a month in Israel. I know that salaries in Thailand are much lower, but still I've heard of people earning this amount. Is there a chance to get at least 200000 a month here? If not, what is the amount I can get?

3. Is this realistic or am I being a dreamer?

Thanks a lot

You might have a chance to get that salary if you have business contacts in Thailand who are famililar with your work and are impressed by you. If you're contacting people cold, it's much less likely that you'll stand out from the Thai competition. For you to get that money though, it would be highly unlikely that they would be expecting you do to the same type of work that you are doing now, rather they would likley be hiring you into a higher ranking position and they would be expecting big things from you -- basically if the job would probably ahve a title such as "director" or "chief archetect" and if you were able to land the same job in Isreal it would probably pay 600,000 baht per month instead of 300,000. That said, it's usually easier to pull of that sort of thing in Singapore, where the goverment is very accommadting to "foreign talents" who want to work in Singapore and many companies like to have at least one or Europeans or Americans on staff. I'm guessing that an Isreali would be considered interchangebale with Americans/Europeans in thier eyes, though I can't actually say that I've met any Israelis who work in Singapore I don't think that there are any legal barriers to it.

Edited October 27, 2008 by OriginalPoster

[think_too_mut]

the job would probably ahve a title such as "director" or "chief archetect" and if you were able to land the same job in Isreal it would probably pay 600,000 baht per month instead of 300,000.

Make it 2 Ferraris for a 26 years old.

[OriginalPoster]

the job would probably ahve a title such as "director" or "chief archetect" and if you were able to land the same job in Isreal it would probably pay 600,000 baht per month instead of 300,000.

Make it 2 Ferraris for a 26 years old.

Granted, 26 would be unusually young to be able to land a job like that. But if he's pulling in more than US$100K per year at age 26 in Israel, that's probably an unusally good tech job that he has now.

[bendix]

It's all irrelevant. He has as much chance of earning 300,000 in an IT role in Bangkok, as i have of winning a bet I just made that it will snow here on Christmas Day.

50,000 feasible. 75,000 possible but hard. 100,000 - very very unlikely.

[think_too_mut]

It's all irrelevant. He has as much chance of earning 300,000 in an IT role in Bangkok, as i have of winning a bet I just made that it will snow here on Christmas Day.

50,000 feasible. 75,000 possible but hard. 100,000 - very very unlikely.

My company in BKK pays 30K US$ + car for a system engineer with 10 years experience.

He told me, on heavy months, with huge overtime, he pulls 120-150K baht after tax.

[OriginalPoster]

It's all irrelevant. He has as much chance of earning 300,000 in an IT role in Bangkok, as i have of winning a bet I just made that it will snow here on Christmas Day.

50,000 feasible. 75,000 possible but hard. 100,000 - very very unlikely.

The only ones I've known in Bangkok with tech backgrounds and less than 30 years old pulling in that much money are expats from large American companies assigned to BKK for a year or two. That seems to be more uncommon with each passing year though, as it usually winds up costing an American company at least 2X of an employee's stateside salary to station them offshore once you get done with all the relocation benefits. It's hard to justify over the long term as it blows your cost structure, and if you need to have a lot of expats in a country it's apt to be interpreted by upper management as a sign that the operations there have a lot of problems.

[wintermute]

IT techs are 10 baht a dozen. Now if you had some very specialized skillset that would be a different story. People aren't just going to pay you a premium just because you're a foreigner that's ridiculous. Why do people have this impression since when were Thais willing to pay above market rate for foreign talent that could do the same thing?

[kiakaha]

IT techs are 10 baht a dozen. Now if you had some very specialized skillset that would be a different story. People aren't just going to pay you a premium just because you're a foreigner that's ridiculous. Why do people have this impression since when were Thais willing to pay above market rate for foreign talent that could do the same thing?

Another thing is that pretty much all well paid non-thai employees in IT i know in thailand were transferred in as part of an existing organisation , being in thailand isn't their primary agenda, their reason for being in thailand is largely work/career/project related....too many guys with IT skills seem to have the primary agenda of simply wanting to be in thailand for whatever reason...i wouldn't hire someone with this primary agenda.

[neverbetter]

Thanks all for your replies, I think I've got the picture.

Clarification regarding 300,000 baht. First of all it's gross. After taxes, social security, self-payed benefits and other things I get 160000 + company car (including all car related costs + petrol). This salary is just a bit above the average here for a position with such qualifications. This site presents the detailed statistics on IT salaries here: cji.co.il/cji08sal.txt

I've read a bit about taxation in Thailand and it seems to be much lower than in Israel, so it can make all the difference. BTW i am pretty sure that in almost every western country i would earn more than i do now for a similar position.

To OriginalPoster: Thanks a lot for your clarification. unfortunately director is not a kind of position i can apply for at this phase of my career. As for the Singapore - currently the company i work for has a massive hire there, so it's realistic but i prefer Thailand.

To wintermute: It's an offtopic but you are offensive and too confident, so I'll answer you. The company I work for has 40 branches worldwide. They have transfered all the positions the can to India and other low-cost labor countries. Still, all the major R&D centers remain in Israel (5000 emp.) and europe + a little bit in US. Why? The answer is simple - quality. The difference between average Israeli and Asian developer is huge, and trust me I'm saying that after soo vast experience of working with Indians. All the 'intelegent' positions stay here, everything else (majority) goes to India. So yes, it is worth for them to pay more for a serious things and this is the only reason they leave here what they leave here. Now, I am not familiar with the situation in Thailand but i do expect them to understand the same basics.

[OriginalPoster]

The difference between average Israeli and Asian developer is huge, and trust me I'm saying that after soo vast experience of working with Indians. All the 'intelegent' positions stay here, everything else (majority) goes to India. So yes, it is worth for them to pay more for a serious things and this is the only reason they leave here what they leave here. Now, I am not familiar with the situation in Thailand but i do expect them to understand the same basics.

There's more to it though, and not all of it's is automatically to your benefit should you go abroad. Part of it's also that there is much more of a culture of innovation in Israel that what you will find in the corporate world in SE Asia and India. That culture most importantly inclues the atmosphere that's created by the other tech people that you work with but also the way you company is managed (though most people think that their companies are horribly managed, management of SE Asian companies is often stifling and often discourages young technical professionals from making decisions for themselves). Now whether all that helps or hurts you when you go abroad depends on you. Some people act like a fish out of water when taken out of their western R&D department and go abroad and never fit in; others thrive. Your technical skills are only part of the equation as to whether you will be successful. Technical professionals in SE Asia, especially young ones, tend approach their jobs like drones, the challenge for you should you come here would be to work effectively with drones without becoming one yourself.

[Wolfie]

My questions are:

1. Is it possible for me to find a job in Bangkok for a company that will grant a work permit&Visa for me?

2. Currently i earn about 300,000 baht a month in Israel. I know that salaries in Thailand are much lower, but still I've heard of people earning this amount. Is there a chance to get at least 200000 a month here? If not, what is the amount I can get?

3. Is this realistic or am I being a dreamer?

1. Yes, but these companies are few and far between these days

2. No, 100,000b is possible albeit unlikely

3. The Latter

[think_too_mut]

There is something that really differentiates Israel software industry but the topic starter is not saying that: omni-presence of military applications (rockets guiding and all sorts of microcode) + abundance of Jew scientists who had migrated from former Soviet Union.

Those things and political climate (surrounded by enemies) do not exist in India and China so their efforts are far more general.

Hardware dependent microcode (machine language) and low level (assembler) device drivers are best if made in Israel.

For example, microcode that lives in and drives routers, storage arrays, remote data replication, data de-duplication between devices, security applications integrated into Unix or Windows, many of these come from Israel.

That level of things might exist in Seagate's factory in Petchaburi where they may or may not be developing firmware for Fiber disk drives, I am not sure. Hardly anywhere else where "core Israeli" skills may be needed (and topic starter is not saying he has got them).

Therefore, "All series things stay in Israel" may be true - but it is likely to be true that the topic starter has had no experience or access to "serious things" that Israel is famous for. Banking, Telco and especially Java are anyone's specialty and does not matter if someone is from Israel, Malaysia or anywhere.