Observations

[slapdashkitty]

Oh JD...we all know you are better than us, superior in every way but please beat that dead horse in another arena?

...and well I find bf's $$$$$ and sex are linked in one very special way here in Thailand...

those talking the most about it have the least of it...

[jdinasia]

Jdinasia:

Look, I get tired just talking to you.  You obviously have a lot of energy and sense of social injustice.  Not too long ago in my life, I would most likely have had identical reactions to yours.  But if you are really going to live in the world with a commitment to making things better for people, you have to be able to stare down what is your truth, and what is everyone else's.  And if you have a sense of responsibility, you will try to compare these observations to a wide variety of sources.  Observing these differences does not make you a racist.  On the contrary, I think people that try too hard to ignore or not speak about obvious differences simply make a choice not to talk about it.  If silence is morally superior, then I choose not to throw in my lot with the silent majority - or whatever.  However, if you don't think silence is morally superior, than you cannot attack people if they are making a responsible effort to share their experiences or observations.  I think Steven has done so. 

Jdinasia, I don't know about you, but I am a foreigner here.  That means by nature, as a thinking person, I am going to analyze and compare differences.  As someone who has worked on and researched the intersection of gender, tradition, and human rights, it is not enough to compare or explain, but I must understand why.  I can assure you, the why would never get answered if people were not allowed to discuss differences, or were strictly controlled to only discuss differences that were agreeable and flattering.  Respected Thai researchers and journalists don't even discuss Thai culture and history in that way, and no researcher or human rights advocate worth their intellect or integrity should.

Relationships, time, ethics, love, and truth are all defined by a different set of constructs in the West and East.  Saying that this is cultural is almost an understatement, because we are talking about completely different civilizations.  Because your truth has been different here, doesn't mean that other people's experiences are not true. 

And since you checked over my posts, then yes, you should know that I'm a woman, and yes, I do have a problem with misogynists.  I also have a problem with racism, oppression, and bigotry.  But hatred and bigotry are not the same as observation or emotional and intellectual honesty.  If you cannot tell the difference than you become a censor, rather than a discussant or even a thinker.

Thanks for the tip about what sites to read or where to do my research, but I have already been there.  If you want to continue this discussion as a dialogue, rather than as an attack, I'd be more than happy to continue.  I always welcome the opportunity to exchange thoughts and examine information, because there is always the chance to learn something new or even re-examine your own truths.

And yes, I agree, I think I do post too much here.  I have been seriously considering leaving this forum over the next week.  But then, if I had merely worried about the number of my posts, or pleasing everyone,  rather than what I honestly want to say, I wouldn't be posting right now to you.  There would then be no chance of a life-changing discussion.  You obviously can't have it both ways, can you?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right. Reread my post and look for an attack ... you won't find one. You found observations about what is said about people in Thailand that happen to be female and here. Note what I called those types of posts.

To constantly harp on and on about "these bad boys in Thailand" is not constructive or even informative imho. It is just a way to get attention and to have everyone agree. I have never said that there are not moneyboys (and girls) of all varieties here. I have said and will continue to say that that is NOT a large part of the real gay world here. Instead it is limited in large part to the guys that hang out in Silom and often limited to the farang that chase the young guys. (not always though.)

As for silence versus the blatantly (again imho) racist attacks stating $$ is always a factor in farang/Thai relationships. That all Thais are liars (more than westerners) etc etc etc. Why would I possibly want to stay silent? To speak out against injustice is a good thing right?

I get it that you like "Steven". So what? I probably would too. His comments are over and over and over again negative (again and again and again imho) and non-contructive when he gets into long winded rants against "how things are" with no real point to them except to highlight his poor choices in dates. It would be different if maybe once in awhile he talked about how he met someone nice that didn't lie and didn't cheat and had his version of good morals. That aint where he's at! So cool, let someone stand up to that racist crap.

Back home (wherever home happens to be) I doubt that many of these guys that are complaining would be dating someone that much younger than them. They wouldn't date a guy without a car, a job, a life. Here they do date those people and then cry because it's not even on some scale they have in their own minds.

I state my experience (before you attack me in your first post) about dating someone and BOOM! There you go! My point was that to label all Thai's as gold -diggers was bad. Instead I get (let me quote directly)----

"So you've admittedly read one book and have a rich boyfriend and rich friends. People like you are just as tiresome as the people who complain all the time. You are a bully and thought dictator that should seek a job within the Ministry of Culture or TAT. You'd fit right in. Your indignant righteousness about widely acknowledged experiences and referenced cultural observations is about the same: tyrannical and disingenuous."---

Sorry but I see YOU as being the thought police here! My posts (call it my voice) is ONE dissenting opinion apparently. Yet I am the bad guy for not agreeing with what I see as vile stereotyping. If this was at "home" and you were discussing blacks and saying they are all liars and gold-diggers even based upon your own experience. SOMEONE would stand up and say. You are wrong. You are a either a bigot, misinformed, or have limited experience with blacks.

After all other than saying I think "Steven" is ill adjusted and if he's unhappy should be elsewhere. Never did I say "SHUT UP" "Don't post!". But it is a relevant observation that you both post like this was the center of your lives. I mean really .... 6.7 posts a day for almost 120 days? GEEEZE (your total is WAY lower and you say you think you post too much here!) Again ... I aint saying DON'T Post ... It was an observation.

Chok Dee with your research!

[jdinasia]

Oh  JD...we all know you are better than us, superior in every way but please beat that dead horse in another arena?

...and well I find bf's $$$$$ and sex are linked in one very special way here in Thailand...

those talking the most about it have the least of it...

   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, Had to scroll way back to find your posts from before. You are the guy that wanted to ask someone out and split the bill on a first date! Now I remember! How's that working out for you?

[kat]

Jdinasia:

You are obviously so much more morally superior than the rest of us. But you are not really being completely honest.

Your first comments were an attack. Why else would you comment on the amount of posts someone makes here? You attack people and then when someone responds you turn it around and say that you are the one attacked.

QUOTE Jdinasia:

"Sorry but I see YOU as being the thought police here! My posts (call it my voice) is ONE dissenting opinion apparently. Yet I am the bad guy for not agreeing with what I see as vile stereotyping. If this was at "home" and you were discussing blacks and saying they are all liars and gold-diggers even based upon your own experience. SOMEONE would stand up and say. You are wrong. You are a either a bigot, misinformed, or have limited experience with blacks." END QUOTE

I am not calling you a bad guy Jdinasia. I think it is inherantly good that you speak out about what you view as a breach in fairness and equality. But cultures and race are not a one-size-fits-all. Ignoring certain patterns or facts does not mean that they are not there. That's why it is important to understand WHY they are there. It is a fact, that Thailand is home to one of the biggest sex markets in the world. The majority of this market is local, and locally driven. It is also a fact that there are not really crisp lines between relationships and economics in Thai culture. This is a fact of culture and history, going back to the Sak Dina period, rankings, dowries, status, face, and a patron-client system of relating. If you think this has no effect on relationships here between Thais themselves, and to a larger extent between Thais and foreigners, then you are the one that is obviously in denial. No, this does not mean that all relationships operate accordingly. But there is a different approach to relationships and economics in SEA. Do you think this fundamental difference is not going to affect the way individuals encounter relationships?

Comparing black people as a minority in a Western country and comparing Thai culture and patterns in Thailand is not the same. However, when discussing differences it is important to distinguish between race and culture, which often includes a more complicated framework of history, economics, reglion, geography, etc. I think to try and whitewash obvious patterns of difference is a flipside of racisim - one of guilt or fear. You don't know what to make of the differences or how to discuss them so you label it as taboo by calling others who do a racist. Have you ever discussed race with black people or other people of color who are a minority, Jdinasia? Because if you did, one of the first things you would learn, is that we don't like people who say "we are all the same". No we are not. We are shaped by different histories, cultures, economics, demographics, philosophies, politics, and religous frameworks, and needs. If you are going to discuss differences responsibly, then first you have to understand them. And you don't understand things by denying they exist.

I am past whatever argument you and Steven are having; that is between the both of you. However, I think the issues you raised are important because it allows us to discuss this whole issue of discussing difference.

[jdinasia]

WOW!

This doesn't sound like you are calling anyone a bad guy!

Quote

You are obviously so much more morally superior than the rest of us. But you are not really being completely honest.

END QUOTE

QOUTE

So you've admittedly read one book and have a rich boyfriend and rich friends. People like you are just as tiresome as the people who complain all the time. You are a bully and thought dictator that should seek a job within the Ministry of Culture or TAT. You'd fit right in. Your indignant righteousness about widely acknowledged experiences and referenced cultural observations is about the same: tyrannical and disingenuous.

END QUOTE

I Guess if you talk long enough and loud enough and often enough you might even convince yourself.

The issue AGAIN (for me) is not if it is true or not that there is financial disparity at times etc. The Issue AGAIN (for me) is labelling ALL relationships in Thailand to be finacially based. The discussions here are NOT discussions about the why's and hows of these relationships. They are, instead, royal whine fests about "why can I not get laid without paying in some fashion." They do not even discuss the backgrounds of the people involved.

Qoute

It is also a fact that there are not really crisp lines between relationships and economics in Thai culture. This is a fact of culture and history, going back to the Sak Dina period, rankings, dowries, status, face, and a patron-client system of relating.

End Quote

If there are no really crisp lines then how can this situation be simplified into any stereotype? And as far as I can determine farang are outside of Thai caste systems (if those can be truly said to exist in BKK anymore). The dowery system etc would not in anyway be a factor in gay male relationships though patronage might. Oh wait, Farang as Patrons? in the Thai meaning of the word? nonsense again. It all sounded very impressive though!

About the number of posts people make, again, WOW. I bet I could convince anyone I knew what I was talking about. To dip back ages into the past here would require that you do the same in the other areas you discussed. Thailand today is changing. The tourists here will most likely be relegated into dealings with Thai's in Silom where the stereotypes portrayed in these posts, however; most farang living here have the opportunity to meet average middle-class Thais. Wait, that would require learning Thai, getting involved in the culture, etc. I have absolutely no problem with people that choose to live in the Silom gay ghetto. Their experiences are valid.

To respond with the same ettiquette and class you showed in the very first quote.

Kat you are obviously intellectually superior to everyone on the forum. I guess your hours of classes have gone to good use! Personally I claim no moral superiority. But if I had to be judged on the choice of being moral and nice, versus intellectual and nasty to our hosts I know which I would personally pick. Why oh why do you think it is OK to constantly run Thai people down. I doubt you have a whole lot of experience dealing with Gay Thai men and the Farang they hang out with (granted I could be very wrong here). There are some things very similar with Farang men and Thai women if the Farang men and Thai women in discussion have a large age disparity and met in bars (for the most part). Or for that matter are just part of the same bar crowd even if they met through friends.

Kat, that my BF ((15 years younger than me)) is middle class or upper middle class does not disvalidate my experience. My experience contradicts that of the guys that post and complain about Thai's being liars and in it for the $$.

Want to come out with me 2 nights? Once to the farang frequented gay bars in Silom (not the gogo bars) and once to the all Thai gay bars a bit further out? It's an amazing difference in the world :-)

All that said. I see your point Kat. I really do. I just disagree.

[kat]

Jdinasia QUOTE: "WOW!

This doesn't sound like you are calling anyone a bad guy!

I Guess if you talk long enough and loud enough and often enough you might even convince yourself".  END QUOTE

And of course, your previous posts and pronouncements have absolutely nothing to do with how people respond to you.

QUOTE Jdinasia:

"If there are no really crisp lines then how can this situation be simplified into any stereotype? And as far as I can determine farang are outside of Thai caste systems (if those can be truly said to exist in BKK anymore). The dowery system etc would not in anyway be a factor in gay male relationships though patronage might. Oh wait, Farang as Patrons? in the Thai meaning of the word? nonsense again. It all sounded very impressive though!" END QUOTE

If you really believe the issues of class, status, and rank do not really exist in BKK, and that farangs don't figure into the equation of status,  I'm sorry to say that it is a waste of time to talk to you anymore.

QUOTE Jdinasia:

"About the number of posts people make, again, WOW. I bet I could convince anyone I knew what I was talking about. To dip back ages into the past here would require that you do the same in the other areas you discussed." END QUOTE

I don't really know what you mean here about the posts, but yes, I agree that an overall historical context is never bad.

QUOTE Jdinasia:

"Thailand today is changing. The tourists here will most likely be relegated into dealings with Thai's in Silom where the stereotypes portrayed in these posts, however; most farang living here have the opportunity to meet average middle-class Thais. Wait, that would require learning Thai, getting involved in the culture, etc. I have absolutely no problem with people that choose to live in the Silom gay ghetto. Their experiences are valid."  END QUOTE

I don't totally disagree with this, however, it assumes a lot about the interests of middle-class Thais and most farangs living here.

Quote Jdinasia:

"To respond with the same ettiquette and class you showed in the very first quote.

Kat you are obviously intellectually superior to everyone on the forum. I guess your hours of classes have gone to good use! Personally I claim no moral superiority. But if I had to be judged on the choice of being moral and nice, versus intellectual and nasty to our hosts I know which I would personally pick. Why oh why do you think it is OK to constantly run Thai people down."   END QUOTE

As opposed to what - your ettiquette and class?  C'mon Jdinasia.  I am trying to genuinely have a discussion with you.  And I am definitely not intellectually superior to everyone on the forum.  No really, I'm not.

And as to the choice of being "moral and nice, versus intellectual and nasty to our hosts", I guess then you are a perfect "visitor" here to Thailand.  One who only says nice polite things to your "host".  Good for you.  If everyone were like you, things like human trafficking, migrant slavery, and rampant corruption would never be mentioned.  And if they are not mentioned, then they don't exist.  Participating in a culture of denial does not necessarily make you a better friend.  I guess it depends on who you consider your friends.

QUOTE Jdinaisa:

"Kat, that my BF ((15 years younger than me)) is middle class or upper middle class does not disvalidate my experience. My experience contradicts that of the guys that post and complain about Thai's being liars and in it for the $$. 

Want to come out with me 2 nights? Once to the farang frequented gay bars in Silom (not the gogo bars) and once to the all Thai gay bars a bit further out? It's an amazing difference in the world :-)

All that said. I see your point Kat. I really do. I just disagree."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not my intention to invalidate anyone's experiences. If your invitation is sincere, we can meet up sometime, sure. Just PM me. It's ok if we disagree. However, don't blast me for looking at things beyond the context of the personal.

Also, by the way, I'm sorry for my confusing use of the quote function. Most of my comments are embedded in the body of the quotes with Jdinasia's. I separated our quotes by Quote/End Quote.

Edited December 12, 2004 by kat

[Ijustwannateach]

Looks like I dropped outta this conversation just in time! Probably my fault for taking it too seriously to begin with!

Yep, JdinAsia, you're a newbie. Aside from your confirming it by your own message, anytime a farang starts telling me to "respect my Thai hosts" more, blah blah blah, as an 'argument' in his favor, I know I'm dealing with a newbie.

No point discussing anything more with him. He's going to be one of the types who has to hit the wall with his head a particularly long time before the messages get through.

"Steven"

[Skipton]

Phew guys thats a lot of catching up, just to add my view re IJWT I find his views and experiences valid, not necessarily negative but after what happened here to a friend of mine valid as a note of caution against the "Oh isnt it wonderful" mentality that engulfs new arrivals and guests. Whatever the age

Re The stereotyping that goes on, well I guess generalisations are a fact of life which can be pointed out and corrected this is what appears to be going on here right now, all part of the process.

Merry christmas chaps, still here, still watching and reading and still crucially loving (with an a tiny bit older, excellent english (probably better than mine) soi 4 resident), my concerns are raised but so far, its been nothing but pleasant surprises.

Thanks for the advice will continue to tune in.

[Ijustwannateach]

Oh  JD...we all know you are better than us, superior in every way but please beat that dead horse in another arena?

...and well I find bf's $$$$$ and sex are linked in one very special way here in Thailand...

those talking the most about it have the least of it...

   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, no! I better clam up about the ex-!

[slapdashkitty]

Oh dear IJWTThat quote was definitely not meant for you...do keep posting your interesting and I would say quite common experiences here. They are rarely peppered with references to how rich your BF is.

And JD yes it is going well for me have not compromised and have a wonderful full dating life and loads of new friends, sadly, I have no horror stories to post here...and no desire to post about any success all over the internet complete with pictures???

We all post for our own reasons...our own failures and shortcomings force us to post. After the initial time of getting the info we need should we not adjust t our new place, move on, and not have time for all this?

One observation about all this-

What is this idea of time spent in BKK equals seniority and superiority? I do not get it after living all over the world for my whole life I find many long stayers that have not got anything together after years spent in a locale? The first few months you get your basics, then its equal footings, save for language skills, and as we all know many never get those.

Adaptation does not come from exposure but rather paying attention and doing some research and putting it all together.

I recently visited the home and met the BF of a guy who was here for over 10 years well....

[Ijustwannateach]

Amen to that, SDK- I would say that time spent is necessary, but as you say, not sufficient, for understanding. Most of the time I wind up realizing how little I know at the end of it all- which is always the challenge for foreigners in any country! The upshot of it is that specific stories and experiences are the most valuable thing for learning about a place or people there, because although generalizations are built from them they never really give the full picture.

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

Incidentally, I would love to hear from one of those guys who's doing this vile stereotyping that I'm reading about on this thread- you know, one of the guys who says all Thais are in it for the money, saying they're all the same, one of those guys who lives in the Silom gay ghetto, etc. That way there might be someone to argue on the other side of JD's debate- so far I don't see anyone!

Hey, Kat- don't leave the forum! Take a break if it's getting you down! I don't understand what he's saying, either!

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

I like the pretty colors!

[RamdomChances]

I like the pretty colors! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good post......your getting there

I read this thread, but I dont know why

[Insight]

To summarise:

Meow, scratch.

[kat]

ok, THIS, actually made me laugh

Thanks for that

[jdinasia]

Incidentally, I would love to hear from one of those guys who's doing this vile stereotyping that I'm reading about on this thread- you know, one of the guys who says all Thais are in it for the money, saying they're all the same, one of those guys who lives in the Silom gay ghetto, etc.  That way there might be someone to argue on the other side of JD's debate- so far I don't see anyone! 

Hey, Kat- don't leave the forum!  Take a break if it's getting you down!  I don't understand what he's saying, either! 

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From post #9 "My Ex or Not" posted by "Steven"

As a side note about Thais individually and culturally, to follow up on your observation, Chris-

I think the Thais have a culture of denial. It is not simply hypocrisy or two-facedness, which is common in many countries- if there is some negative attribute which they wish to hide, they seem compelled not only to cover it up but to STRONGLY, VOCALLY deny it. This goes for so-called "Thai values" as well as individual character. For example,

THAI VALUES:

Thais are sexually conservative.

Thais are socially conservative.

Thais are calm and cool.

REALITIES:

Everone screws like rabbits.

Everyone has affairs.

Thais have terribly emotional storms.

PERSONAL STATEMENTS

I don't have many dates.

I don't go there.

I'm not materialistic.

Up to you!

I don't tell you lies!

REALITIES

I'm a slut.

It's my favorite place.

Show me the money!

I want it my way!

I'm a pathological liar!

Time after time, when I examine what my Thai friends/acquaintances take so much trouble to deny, I find the truth by reversing their denials. It's a technique I recommend, somewhat cynically.

"Steven"

that should be Gross Generalization (or "vile stereotyping") enough for you "Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

Your point is? I am reporting what I observe from Thai culture. This does not imply "all individual Thais are liars"- it means that when I observe a (specific) Thai making a strong, unusually repetitive assertion over and over that [something] is *not* [bad condition], then it usually is a psychological sign that [something] *is* [bad condition]. The things listed in my post are examples that I have really run into. Anyone who's spent any time in Thailand would recognize similar examples among individuals here- *individuals*, mind you. I include the "Thais are socially conservative" example as a sample of general social denial, not to say that Thais are liars.

In fact, I'm distinguishing this behavior from lying by its cultural prevalence- that's why I call it denial and not lying. It's so prevalent that I recognize it as a separate phenomenon and don't, for example, get angry and indignant about it as I would towards someone who had *actually* lied to me (for example, by telling me they were in one place when they were really in another)- though it might prompt me to indulge in eye-rolling. I'm quite curious to know whether Thais have a cultural blindness to this kind of repetitive denial and really believe each other, or whether this denial pattern flags a face-saving response only in which Thais really know that what is being said is not, strictly speaking, true. This would put the interesting phenomenon in another category besides simple hypocrisy, which is of course available in all societies- and would, of course, entirely exonerate them from lying, because the truth would be "understood" through the behavior [much as how in Japan, "yes" often can be understood as "no" in the right context].

Now, this point requires a certain amount of subtlety- perhaps a bit more than "Culture Shock Thailand" requires. Thanks for bringing it up again. Maybe you should read a little more carefully before leaping to the attack?

"Steven"

Edited December 14, 2004 by Ijustwannateach

[Ijustwannateach]

Actually, if you want to continue replying to many of my other posts, why don't you do so in the threads where they are posted- that would be topical and in context- if you can bring yourself to do so, considering your low opinion of people who actually post once in a while. I wouldn't think most people want to see this become the "Jdinasia Attack Thread."

"Steven"

[jdinasia]

Your point is?  I am reporting what I observe from Thai culture.  This does not imply "all individual Thais are liars"- it means that when I observe a (specific) Thai making a strong, unusually repetitive assertion over and over that [something] is *not* [bad condition], then it usually is a psychological sign that [something] *is* [bad condition].  The things listed in my post are examples that I have really run into.  Anyone who's spent any time in Thailand would recognize similar examples among individuals here- *individuals*, mind you.  I include the "Thais are socially conservative" example as a sample of general social denial, not to say that Thais are liars.

In fact, I'm distinguishing this behavior from lying by its cultural prevalence- that's why I call it denial and not lying.  It's so prevalent that I recognize it as a separate phenomenon and don't, for example, get angry and indignant about it as I would towards someone who had *actually* lied to me (for example, by telling me they were in one place when they were really in another)- though it might prompt me to indulge in eye-rolling.  I'm quite curious to know whether Thais have a cultural blindness to this kind of repetitive denial and really believe each other, or whether this denial pattern flags a face-saving response only in which Thais really know that what is being said is not, strictly speaking, true.  This would put the interesting phenomenon in another category besides simple hypocrisy, which is of course available in all societies- and would, of course, entirely exonerate them from lying, because the truth would be "understood" through the behavior [much as how in Japan, "yes" often can be understood as "no" in the right context].

Now, this point requires a certain amount of subtlety- perhaps a bit more than "Culture Shock Thailand" requires.  Thanks for bringing it up again.  Maybe you should read a little more carefully before leaping to the attack?

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, sure! This is often the tone when discussing Thai people that I read in here (and Thai gay men in particular). I guess you don't see your posts as one-sided and bigoted! I am sure that you can qualify anything said at some point. But in the aforementioned post it wasn't qualified ... in fact it said "Thais individually and culturally" but I must just not be able to read the subtlety in there! Must be because I am a "newbie" in your eyes and that I hang with a totally different group of people in mine!

I absolutely do not doubt that these are your experiences and your realities! After all I am a firm believer in Kamma (Karma) and that what you put out in the world is what you get back!

[jdinasia]

Actually, if you want to continue replying to many of my other posts, why don't you do so in the threads where they are posted- that would be topical and in context- if you can bring yourself to do so, considering your low opinion of people who actually post once in a while.  I wouldn't think most people want to see this become the "Jdinasia Attack Thread."

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And you asked for examples in this post...

"Incidentally, I would love to hear from one of those guys who's doing this vile stereotyping that I'm reading about on this thread- you know, one of the guys who says all Thais are in it for the money, saying they're all the same, one of those guys who lives in the Silom gay ghetto, etc. That way there might be someone to argue on the other side of JD's debate- so far I don't see anyone! "

I just picked that one single post to show one single example of 2 of the things you asked to see.

[Ijustwannateach]

Nope, still don't see any vile stereotyping- and neither, apparently, do any other posters here... and no one else seems to see my posts as "bigoted," either. Funny, that.

Not that you're probably looking for advice from me, but a word for you anyway- I saw above that you mentioned your bf is richer than you, has a car, etc. If he is actually Thai-Thai, you might find it interesting to know that richer Thais can "patronize" partners of lower social or financial status, even if they're farang. Just something to add some spice to your ruminations on your relationships here- but what could I know? I only hang out with one crowd, after all, and I think all Thais are pathological liars only after the money, and I'm silly enough to date someone without a car!

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

Heh heh- but Ma, that's no fun!

Was thinking I should break off unilaterally about now, anyway- it _is_ getting kind of old.

"Steven"

[Khutan]

I might just poke my head in for a minute - please be gentle with me.

This quote tickles me :

one of the guys who says all Thais are in it for the money

Sadly there is a strong association between money / love / respect.

I know I am talking mainstream here but things like if you love me you will pay this Sin-Sod, My family respect me for sending them money, They know I love them when I send money. Sadly it is a strong association, particularly in the North-East.

[Kan Win]

I prefer the more polite atmosphere here for any kind of serious dialogue.

And welcome, Donna!  Not only straight women but also straight men welcome here, though few are man enough to do more than troll!  And you say such nice things about our forum! 

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have tired that, but you never welcomed me BTW. Look at my Fred:-

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19799

and yet 237 viewed this Fred which I started, on your side of this forum. And no one even bothered to post on that Fred. Thank you !!!!!!!!

So what is your above post all about then ?) Kan you help us, who are on the Dark Side of the Moon… Teach…?

Before that Fred, above as mentioned, for you , to remember what you said about me, just because I am true and a straight POSTER trying to help Teachers in Thailand. (love the last one on that Fred BTW. Have a look see)

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=18067

I have many friends over my lifetime (55 year old me, that is) like yourself, and you are the only one that gave me S………………t, for what ??????? for helping people??? (read what you wrote) ?????. Perrr…happssss now, you know Kwai I/we do not venture into your side of this Forum.

God Bless you All

Yours as always

Kan Win

P.S. Ijustwannateach count yourself Polish-ed-off-ski

[Kan Win]

I like the pretty colors! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your very welcome to these.

My True Colours

Kan not help myself to post this one.

[Ijustwannateach]

Kan Win, I don't know what planet you're living on, but thanks for hijacking this thread! We needed a good laugh!

Good photo, too.

"Steven"

Edited December 15, 2004 by Ijustwannateach

[kat]

I think Kan Win is from Planet Happy Land. He definitley convinced me to drink Singha.

[Kan Win]

Just for you kat....

Fancy a ride to my Planet

Happy Days

Yours as always,

Kan Win

P.S. One always has at least on in the pack..

[jdinasia]

Happy Anniversary to me! This "newbie" has now lived in Thailand for one year continuously (and over 3 years since 97).

Cheers to the rest of you that have made it this long or longer that have not become bitter and jaded!