Thai Crisis Exposes Class Struggle

[LaoPo]

Thai crisis exposes class struggle

Page last updated at 00:08 GMT, Saturday, 8 November 2008

By Jonathan Head - BBC News, Bangkok

For weeks the yellow-shirted protesters of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) have hogged the limelight in Thailand.

With the backing of powerful military and palace figures, they have helped unseat one prime minister and two members of his cabinet.

The embattled government, led by allies of controversial former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, has in vain protested that it was popularly elected less than a year ago.

Now it has started fighting back with a series of mass rallies by its own red-shirted followers.

This is a dangerous contest between two power-hungry political factions who see it as a zero-sum game, in which they either win everything, or lose everything.

But it has become much more than that.

The rift has split Thai society, along regional and especially along class lines.

'Dress in red'

It is Monday morning, in a quiet backstreet in Udon Thani, provincial capital of a north-eastern province bordering Laos and a known Thaksin stronghold.

Radio DJ Kwanchai Sarakam is taking calls. He is a firebrand Thaksin loyalist who already faces criminal charges over his involvement in a clash with PAD supporters in July. But his callers are just as fired up.

"If the PAD cannot convince me their version of democracy will help grass-roots people like me, then I will fight them to my last breath"

Farmer Ankham Ratanasingha (left) (see full article)

The first is an old lady, with a warning for the military. "Listen to me, soldiers," she shouts down a crackly phone line, "if you dare try another coup, forget about getting roses, because I will dress myself entirely in red - red hair, red panties, red bra, red fingernails - and jump in front of your tanks. You will have to run over me, a grass-roots woman, and crush me to death."

Other calls follow in a similar, if less melodramatic, vein.

The show finishes with a rousing song, scorning "educated people" for their ignorance and lack of manners.

Kwanchai threatens to bring a red-shirted army to Bangkok to declare war on the PAD. He says there will have to be bloodshed before Thailand can get through this crisis. He almost seems to relish the prospect. But the sense of being engaged in a class war is commonplace on both sides of this struggle.

Rich-poor divide

"You see these people here - they are all educated people," one man told me at a PAD gathering in Bangkok. "But the ones who support the government party, they are all uneducated, especially from the north and north-east."

This is a typical comment from the PAD, implying that the millions of rural people who consistently vote for pro-Thaksin politicians are either bribed or do not understand what they are doing.

It is the justification the PAD gives for demanding a parliament which is part-appointed.

Such an attitude infuriates Ankham Ratanasingha, who runs a small farm with her husband just outside Udon Thani.

She had to leave school at 10 years old, but takes pride in having educated her two children to university level.

"If the PAD cannot convince me that their version of democracy will help grass-roots people like me, then I will fight them to my last breath," she said. "They should treat us with respect, not as people they can just squash under their feet."

"The problem of Thai political crisis is a class struggle", says Attajak Satayanutak, an academic from Thaksin's home town Chiang Mai.

"We have a wide gap between rich and poor. The poor did not receive anything from the state for a long time. Then, for the first time, Thaksin gave this opportunity for them."

The affection for Thaksin Shinawatra has held up remarkably well in the north-east, a poor and arid region known as Isaan.

Local people say his populist policies, like universal healthcare and the village loan scheme, brought big improvements to the quality of their lives.

But time and again they cite something else - dignity. They told me he offered them the hope of improving themselves, without making them feel small, or humble.

"If the military mounts another coup, this time the country will split, and there will be civil war"

Thaksin supporter (see full article)

His darker sides - abuses of power, human rights violations, arrogance - were brushed aside as less important.

Isaan has long been the butt of jokes in Thailand. It has a culture and language closer to that of neighbouring Laos than the central plains around Bangkok. It supplies much of the cheap, migrant labour to the capital.

But it has one valuable asset Thaksin Shinawatra identified as he began planning his bid for power in the late 1990s - voters, around one third of the total.

He was the first politician to court them directly, with appealing policies, rather than relying on the local godfathers to deliver their support.

In doing so, he has awoken a new political self-awareness in a previously passive region. And Isaan people are furious about the comments they are hearing from the PAD in Bangkok.

"Those who think Isaan people blindly follow Thaksin Shinawatra have an outdated image of our region," I was told by Puttakarn Panthong, a local politician who is not affiliated with Mr Thaksin's party. "They have better education now, and they understand who and what they are voting for."

Stuck in exile

So at the first of the big rallies in Bangkok, the former prime minister's phone-call, from somewhere overseas, was the most eagerly awaited moment of the night.

A huge roar went up from the 60,000 red-shirted faithful as his voice came over the speakers, asking: "Have you missed me?" There were more than a few tearful faces in the crowd.

But this was also a carefully-choreographed event, intended to send out a signal to the PAD and its royalist backers, that they face formidable opposition. The crowd was far larger than any the PAD has managed to attract this year.

Aside from Mr Thaksin, the highlight of the night was a song sung by Chaturon Chaiseng, one of the most respected politicians in the Thaksin camp.

He was also once a left-wing activist who took up arms against the military during the communist insurgency of the last 1970s.

And the song he chose was written by one of his comrades-in-arms, which tells of the sadness of a young rebel unable to return home.

The reference, or course, was to Mr Thaksin, stuck in exile, facing a two-year prison sentence if he comes back.

But it also connected his poor, rural followers today, with the class conflicts of Thailand's past.

Behind Mr Chaturon they held up the words "NO MORE COUP" in bold red letters. It seemed more of a warning than a plea.

One man turned to me and said: "If the military mounts another coup, this time the country will split, and there will be civil war."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7716033.stm

LaoPo

[sylviex]

"The problem of Thai political crisis is a class struggle", says Attajak Satayanutak, an academic from Thaksin's home town Chiang Mai.

Absolutely.

Good article -- thanks, LaoPo.

[Wandering]

Thai crisis exposes class struggle

Page last updated at 00:08 GMT, Saturday, 8 November 2008

By Jonathan Head - BBC News, Bangkok

For weeks the yellow-shirted protesters of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) have hogged the limelight in Thailand.

With the backing of powerful military and palace figures, they have helped unseat one prime minister and two members of his cabinet.

"You see these people here - they are all educated people," one man told me at a PAD gathering in Bangkok. "But the ones who support the government party, they are all uneducated, especially from the north and north-east."

This is a typical comment from the PAD, implying that the millions of rural people who consistently vote for pro-Thaksin politicians are either bribed or do not understand what they are doing.

It is the justification the PAD gives for demanding a parliament which is part-appointed.

"We have a wide gap between rich and poor. The poor did not receive anything from the state for a long time. Then, for the first time, Thaksin gave this opportunity for them."

Local people say his populist policies, like universal healthcare and the village loan scheme, brought big improvements to the quality of their lives.

But time and again they cite something else - dignity. They told me he offered them the hope of improving themselves, without making them feel small, or humble.

His darker sides - abuses of power, human rights violations, arrogance - were brushed aside as less important.

He was the first politician to court them directly, with appealing policies, rather than relying on the local godfathers to deliver their support.

"Those who think Isaan people blindly follow Thaksin Shinawatra have an outdated image of our region," I was told by Puttakarn Panthong, a local politician who is not affiliated with Mr Thaksin's party. "They have better education now, and they understand who and what they are voting for."

One man turned to me and said: "If the military mounts another coup, this time the country will split, and there will be civil war."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7716033.stm

LaoPo

Under Taksin- The top Mafia Warlord we had

His darker sides - abuses of power, human rights violations, arrogance

Good side- people were empowered, middle class grew, country wide corruption lessened, exports increased, poor got electricity, economic benefits (OTOP), improved health care, etc...

Fatal flaw- The poor and middle class got richer meaning the ultra rich lost money. Also previously corrupt people were hindered in collecting their (under the table) dues unless it went through the war-chief Toxin. A coup was inevitable.

[glyph]

"One man turned to me and said:..."

One man, does not make a concensus.

[JetsetBkk]

..."You see these people here - they are all educated people," one man told me at a PAD gathering in Bangkok. "But the ones who support the government party, they are all uneducated, especially from the north and north-east."...

But... but... I thought the pro-PAD posters here said this wasn't what PAD believed. Please don't say they've been telling porkies!

[jellymeister]

Now this all sounds a bit serious...to add a bit of levity may I suggest we dub the red-shirted ones the

"Issan Rouge" and that they select a leader called "Pol Wok" or "Peter Pan"

There is already a band called "the Clash" in Thailand so all the elements for Maoist class struggle are in place

[Hairy]

I'm curious what would happen to Western expats if this did turn into a civil war. Would their condos and savings be confiscated for the good of the Thai people? Would they be whipped through the streets and strung up from lampposts? Is there an undercurrent of resentment against "wealthy foreigners"?

[Koo82]

"We have a wide gap between rich and poor. The poor did not receive anything from the state for a long time. Then, for the first time, Thaksin gave this opportunity for them."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7716033.stm

Do some people understand now why so many Thais love Khun Thaksin?

[Maigo6]

Is there an undercurrent of resentment against "wealthy foreigners"?

" Wealthy Farangs " ?

There are not that many to feel any resentment against.

Edited November 10, 2008 by Maigo6

[Maigo6]

"We have a wide gap between rich and poor. The poor did not receive anything from the state for a long time. Then, for the first time, Thaksin gave this opportunity for them."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7716033.stm

Do some people understand now why so many Thais love Khun Thaksin?

Of course, I see many Farangs on this site are critics of Thaksin, yet IF the Thaksin Government had passed legislation that allowed Farangs to own land 100% in their names, made Visas and permanent rersidency a much easier process etc etc...

I wonder how many Farangs would support him, and if they had lost those privilages with a new government, I wonder how many would be wanting him back ?

[Svenn]

Now this all sounds a bit serious...to add a bit of levity may I suggest we dub the red-shirted ones the

"Issan Rouge" and that they select a leader called "Pol Wok" or "Peter Pan"

There is already a band called "the Clash" in Thailand so all the elements for Maoist class struggle are in place

I've wondered about an Isaan Rouge... I've wondered if a genocide could happen in thailand. I tend to think the isaan people are more lighthearted and morally conscious than the average khmer peasant, and the existence of a real King probably would prevent any violence from happening. Isaan and Lao people are fine to be the butt of jokes if it's all in good fun, there are many things to be proud of as well in a rural heritage, ...but as soon as some chinese-thai-bangkokian starts browbeating them as incapable of rational political decisions cuz they're 'from the northeast', that's when i get a bit ticked off.

[JetsetBkk]

Of course, I see many Farangs on this site are critics of Thaksin, yet IF the Thaksin Government had passed legislation that allowed Farangs to own land 100% in their names, made Visas and permanent rersidency a much easier process etc etc...

I wonder how many Farangs would support him, and if they had lost those privilages with a new government, I wonder how many would be wanting him back ?

Anyone got Thaksin's email address? Maybe drop him a line...

[Koo82]

The rich, hi-so, noble, elite have had power for too long that they don't want to lose that. Some other countries faced this conflict. We must go through this stage until the people behind PAD understand they can't do anything to win the majority of Thais.

Hope this will be the "last war" as what PAD put in their banners.

[toybits]

Maybe the BBC will sack the author of this article for writing such lies - There seems to be a rash of BBC expulsions lately....

"One man turned to me and said:..."

One man, does not make a concensus.

[Wandering]

Maybe the BBC will sack the author of this article for writing such lies - There seems to be a rash of BBC expulsions lately....

Finally someone writes the truth and you want to stick your head in the sand. Instead of offering proof for your point of view you go on the attack. You want the author of this clear and insightful article sacked because ... why? because you fear free speech? You might notice that others who have read this article have agreed with the truth outlined. Oh wait I think your proof is that "There seems to be a rash of BBC expulsions lately...." meaning you feel that British people can't be trusted. Hmmm... not enough logic for me.

Edited November 12, 2008 by Wandering

[bravingbangkok]

I do not know where to sit on this one, I am leaning towards old old Tacky as quite simply Thailand is going to prosper under him more than it would under the PAD.

I feel greatly for the north and north east but I do not think they are the butt of all jokes but merely thought of as simple people. They now have seemed to have educated their childeren and thus now are not simple people anymore and as any educated person would want they want a say in things.

Thaksin made a mistake with the land deal, the other two major mistakes were the deaths in the south and the war of drugs in which many died, the thing is the deaths in the south you can understand as they are obviously intent on killing Thai's and Thai soldiers and the war of drugs....whats really wrong with that ? western human rights are a f'ing joke anyway and I am sure it was a night that basically got out of hand. In the states if you run you get shot so whats the difference.

The PAD are a bunch of idiots and Thaksin has been quite a cruel leader so where can one stand if one is not ingrained into this country and it's history. I think farang should just stay well away from this situation and I highly doubt that any crimes would be commited against farang if it did indeed all go down.

Having said this i HAVE MY TICKET BOOKED

[Koo82]

I still don't understand what farangs have to do in this Thai struggle.

[bravingbangkok]

I still don't understand what farangs have to do in this Thai struggle.

Absolutely nothing but we can still have an opinion but I think it would be stupid of us to take sides.

[OlRedEyes]

I still don't understand what farangs have to do in this Thai struggle.

Can't do anything. Try not to exacerbate it, and keep track of what's happening. It could get very ugly.

Edited November 12, 2008 by OlRedEyes

[sylviex]

I still don't understand what farangs have to do in this Thai struggle.

Absolutely nothing but we can still have an opinion but I think it would be stupid of us to take sides.

Well, some of us live here -- don't you think it would be a little odd for us to take no interest in what is going on here? Many foreigners have Thai partners and families. Most of us both care about, and have a stake in, what happens in Thailand. (This reminds me of those posters who respond to everything with, "What does it matter what other people think ?" . Most people can't help observing, reflecting ... and thinking ... let's hope that continues.)

They now have seemed to have educated their childeren and thus now are not simple people anymore and as any educated person would want they want a say in things.

Yes. I don't think Thailand can remain feudal for too much longer (though thorough change will take time). The ever-increasing contact with the "outside world" ( ) must preclude that. The sons and daughters of BKK have, of course, long been educated overseas. They understand what they have to lose. However, it seems the mentality is beginning to change in the N/NE, too; inevitable with the number of marriages to foreigners, working in BKK/big cities, internet and so on.

[toptuan]

I do not know where to sit on this one, I am leaning towards old old Tacky as quite simply Thailand is going to prosper under him more than it would under the PAD.

I feel greatly for the north and north east but I do not think they are the butt of all jokes but merely thought of as simple people. They now have seemed to have educated their childeren and thus now are not simple people anymore and as any educated person would want they want a say in things.

So true.

As a university professor in Isaan, for the last six years I've watched large segments of this society make the huge jump from agrarian to professional in one generation. It's happening to the tune of 100,000+ students (Isaan-wide) every year.

Of course, we all know it behooves PAD and their co-horts to continue to characterize the population of Isaan, the Thaksin supporters, as country bumpkins. Maybe it comes from constant contact with Isaan taxi drivers and food vendors in Bangkok.

However, they need more contact with the Isaan graphic artists, exporters, Honda quality control managers, Bangkok Post writers, IT experts, and medical personnel who now staff prestigious Bangkok institutions and organizations. These positions and places are where my former students now work. For the second year in a row, Isaan students have swept the top prizes in Thailand's National English Speech Competition in Bangkok, trumping schools like Mahidol, Thammasart, and Kasetsart.

Not quite the country backwater PAD continues to make them out to be.

Every election, these professionals go back to their Isaan hometowns to cast their ballots, with the adult members of their families usually following their more-informed political advice. And yes, they are livid over PAD's continual portrayal of this society as the butt-end of Thailand. I am too.

Edited November 12, 2008 by toptuan

[Jingthing]

Interesting. I have read that more educated urban Isaan people are mostly pro-PAD, anti-PPP and also look down on the lower class Isaan PPP supporters. In other words, even within Isaan there is this CLASS conflict. This is wrong?

Edited November 12, 2008 by Jingthing

[bravingbangkok]

I still don't understand what farangs have to do in this Thai struggle.

Absolutely nothing but we can still have an opinion but I think it would be stupid of us to take sides.

Well, some of us live here -- don't you think it would be a little odd for us to take no interest in what is going on here? Many foreigners have Thai partners and families. Most of us both care about, and have a stake in, what happens in Thailand. (This reminds me of those posters who respond to everything with, "What does it matter what other people think ?" . Most people can't help observing, reflecting ... and thinking ... let's hope that continues.)

They now have seemed to have educated their childeren and thus now are not simple people anymore and as any educated person would want they want a say in things.

Yes. I don't think Thailand can remain feudal for too much longer (though thorough change will take time). The ever-increasing contact with the "outside world" ( ) must preclude that. The sons and daughters of BKK have, of course, long been educated overseas. They understand what they have to lose. However, it seems the mentality is beginning to change in the N/NE, too; inevitable with the number of marriages to foreigners, working in BKK/big cities, internet and so on.

I think it is also very interesting to think how many thai/farang kids there are now and in the future and the majority of them have mothers from Issan ! I plan to educate my daughter from now until she is 16 in Thailand and then 16-21 in London. I am sure many will do the same or similar and thus to an extent there will be a slight and I say slight social and political climate change over the next few decades. I am not saying that these kids will out number thais or thai/chinese but they certainly will make up quite a big portion of the high end working classes.

I feel very excited to be living here at this time..not scared as I do not think it will ever come to civil war.

[toptuan]

Interesting. I have read that more educated urban Isaan people are mostly pro-PAD, anti-PPP and also look down on the lower class Isaan PPP supporters. In other words, even within Isaan there is this CLASS conflict. This is wrong?

My impression: the exception rather than the rule.

Every year, for English discussion purposes, I ask one class: "Who is or was Thailand's greatest politician?" Up until this year 100% named Thaksin. This year, his popularity plummeted to 98%. My student mix is about 30% Isaan-urban, and 70% Isaan-rural. Anti-PAD sentiments are pretty strong, overall.

Granted, simply a micro-observation from two classes totaling about 100 Isaan university students.

Edited November 12, 2008 by toptuan

[sylviex]

I am probably a Marxist . I am sooooo dying to use terms like "jaded bourgeoisie" & "rising proletariat" ...

The poor/disenfranchised have the most reason to perceive the value of education.

However, they need more contact with the Isaan graphic artists, exporters, Honda quality control managers, Bangkok Post writers, IT experts, and medical personnel who now staff prestigious Bangkok institutions and organizations.

And I suspect these people have far more creativity and strength than their BKK cousins -- all generalizations are unfair, but that is a satisying one.

I overheard a hi-so Thai take a phone call from a "Khun Lao". She was so evidently distressed that the others in the room collapsed in laughter. Khun Lao ! Khun Lao ! How hilarious it was . Eventually, one of the darker members of staff was called in to deal with this ... she handled it well, but it must have rankled.

[kmart]

Such a disproportionate level of development and disparity of income was always going to be a massive social problem here, and it is finally happening. The accelerated speed of this development, within 1-2 generations (as toptuan states above^^) has arrived without the checks and balances / regulations, legal, democratic, and governmental institutions in place to cope. They are 30 years behind modern industry, as it is...

Its not exactly the Khmer Rouge coming out of the jungle to sack the capital, yet; but beware the wrath of a patient people.

[OlRedEyes]

Such a disproportionate level of development and disparity of income was always going to be a massive social problem here, and it is finally happening. The accelerated speed of this development, within 1-2 generations (as toptuan states above^^) has arrived without the checks and balances / regulations, legal, democratic, and governmental institutions in place to cope. They are 30 years behind modern industry, as it is...

Its not exactly the Khmer Rouge coming out of the jungle to sack the capital, yet; but beware the wrath of a patient people.

Which makes me wonder what is China's future..... Slightly off-topic I know, but not in the bigger regional picture.

[toptuan]

And I suspect these people have far more creativity and strength than their BKK cousins -- all generalizations are unfair, but that is a satisying one.

I'm assured of one thing: Definitely more DRIVE! I suspect most of their drive to excel stems from constant subtle and not-so-subtle class-swipes from BKK's fairer-skinned, higher-pedigreed and arrogant hi-so snobs.

Every time I take my students to BKK for an academically-related event, it's brutal to observe the arrogant attitudes, direct and indirect, my students have to deal with--from other students AND faculty. At first, I thought my students were being too sensitive, but now with 6 years of Thai language under my belt, I can pick up on it as well, and it's really there, and often in-your-face.

The class struggle is a dark reminder of my days visiting the American deep south in the 50's and early 60's. Same ugly, blind attitudes based on skin color, race and culture. Even as a child, what I observed distressed me, so no wonder I'm usually for the underdog! As Kmart so astutely observed, here's Thailand with similar problems without the checks and balances (and I add...) which began to transform American society with the civil rights movement of the 60's, culminating, in my opinion, with an American black president. No, the Americans are not "there" yet, but it's a huge icon of social maturation.

Swallow this, Thai hi-so : "Kuhn Lao" as a future Prime Minister of Thailand. Maybe he/she will be the future phone call (post #25) you'll have to deal with!

Edited November 12, 2008 by toptuan

[sylviex]

I'm assured on one thing: Definitely more DRIVE! Stems from constant subtle and not-so-subtle class-swipes from BKK's fairer-skinned, higher-pedigreed and arrogant hi-so snobs.

Every time I take my students to BKK for an academically-related event, it's brutal to observe the arrogant attitudes, direct and indirect, my students have to deal with--from other students AND faculty. At first, I thought my students were being too sensitive, but now with 6 years of Thai language under my belt, I can pick up on it as well, and it's really there, and often in-your-face.

The class struggle is a dark reminder of my days visiting the American deep south in the 50's and early 60's. Same ugly, blind attitudes based on skin color, race and culture.

Quite right -- drive and energy. Trying to put people down is guaranteed to misfire eventually. Even without that, though, I think that just seeing other possibilities is enough to prompt change.

Agree about this *dark* snobbery (my example above is just one of many such experiences). Funny how some expats like to buy into this ("my Thai-Chinese partner "). How has the election of Obama been greeted by your students ?

As for China, I think they are dealing with transition very well, on the whole. Change there over the past few generations must be amongst the most rapid ever seen anywhere. I guess the implicit question is about the poor rural masses. I think they are mainly still living in old-style ways (while their kids attend Universities in China and overseas, too). I have lived and worked in China and find comparisons with Thailand very interesting. Legacy of the Cultural Revolution (and/or perhaps a different mindset, too) is the ubiquitous old folk straining to read newspapers by lamplight -- wanting to learn and know ...

[toptuan]

How has the election of Obama been greeted by your students ?

The social parallels and its implications are not lost on them.

First reaction: shock

Second reaction: thoughtful

Third reaction: hopeful