Rental Deposits Going One Way In Thailand

[agord]

Having lived in the kingdom for over three years now I'm sorry to say I have had my "deposit" basically stolen from me 3 of the 5 times I have rented. What recourse can I take? I have a contract with a realesate agent this past time and the owners are not going to return any of the 35,000 THB. Reasons for this extend to me somehow being responsible to fix their air conditioners and plumbing problems to 15,000 to replace a few plants in the garden. I'm at the point where it is too much already and I can no longer be taken advantage of. If anyone can recommend what action to take I would greatly appreciate it. I don't even care about the money so much as it's about one weeks salary for me it's the point of being screwed yet again!

[agord]

Having lived in the kingdom for over three years now I'm sorry to say I have had my "deposit" basically stolen from me 3 of the 5 times I have rented. What recourse can I take? I have a contract with a realesate agent this past time and the owners are not going to return any of the 35,000 THB. Reasons for this extend to me somehow being responsible to fix their air conditioners and plumbing problems to 15,000 to replace a few plants in the garden. I'm at the point where it is too much already and I can no longer be taken advantage of. If anyone can recommend what action to take I would greatly appreciate it. I don't even care about the money so much as it's about one weeks salary for me it's the point of being screwed yet again!

Further to this what exactly is allowed as far as mentioning the name of the agent who is representing these people and is letting them do this? We had her word that the deposit would be refunded with no hassles and that her contract would make sure of it but now it appears she has partnered up with the landlord? My wife is from Nakorn Si Thamarat and the landlord all but threatened her saying that we would get nothing back and that we "shouldn't mess with Phuket People" Am I the only one sick and tired of this mafia mentality in Phuket? I would like to warn other expats about this agency so they don't fall into the same scheme.

[midas]

agord you'll need to do some research with the help of some Thai people

but somewhere in Bangkok there is a special government dept. which deals

with this. I cannot remember the phone number or anything but I do know

it exists and I think they would help you. I'm sorry I cannot give you anymore details

but good luck

[Wonderboy]

Having lived in the kingdom for over three years now I'm sorry to say I have had my "deposit" basically stolen from me 3 of the 5 times I have rented. What recourse can I take? I have a contract with a realesate agent this past time and the owners are not going to return any of the 35,000 THB. Reasons for this extend to me somehow being responsible to fix their air conditioners and plumbing problems to 15,000 to replace a few plants in the garden. I'm at the point where it is too much already and I can no longer be taken advantage of. If anyone can recommend what action to take I would greatly appreciate it. I don't even care about the money so much as it's about one weeks salary for me it's the point of being screwed yet again!

You are not alone. It is a very,very common scam. I were screwed the first of the two times I rented. The second time I just did not pay the two remaining months which covered my deposit. Worked for me, but might not work for everybody...

Reading your post really makes my blood boil. It is the landlord's responsibility to fix the aircon and plumbing anyway (assuming it is faulty due to normal wear and tear). What a lame excuse. Assuming you have a contract, my best advice is to threaten to show your rental agreement to the tax office. Landlords are supposed to pay 15% tax on rental income, and I really doubt this scumbag is doing it.

WB

[agord]

Having lived in the kingdom for over three years now I'm sorry to say I have had my "deposit" basically stolen from me 3 of the 5 times I have rented. What recourse can I take? I have a contract with a realesate agent this past time and the owners are not going to return any of the 35,000 THB. Reasons for this extend to me somehow being responsible to fix their air conditioners and plumbing problems to 15,000 to replace a few plants in the garden. I'm at the point where it is too much already and I can no longer be taken advantage of. If anyone can recommend what action to take I would greatly appreciate it. I don't even care about the money so much as it's about one weeks salary for me it's the point of being screwed yet again!

You are not alone. It is a very,very common scam. I were screwed the first of the two times I rented. The second time I just did not pay the two remaining months which covered my deposit. Worked for me, but might not work for everybody...

Reading your post really makes my blood boil. It is the landlord's responsibility to fix the aircon and plumbing anyway (assuming it is faulty due to normal wear and tear). What a lame excuse. Assuming you have a contract, my best advice is to threaten to show your rental agreement to the tax office. Landlords are supposed to pay 15% tax on rental income, and I really doubt this scumbag is doing it.

WB

WB,

Good advice. I do have a contract and it's funny that you said to move out 2 months early because this was something I brought up 2 months prior to my lease ending. I had an offer to rent a place near my hotel, great place with ocean view and work was going to support part of the rent. i told my wife we should just forget about the deposit because chances are we wouldn't see it anyways. We spoke with the landlords at that time and asked to waive the deposit and just move out - of course they refused and said they would sue us They assured us they would return the depost and the agent confirmed so we stayed. Imagine the temp. of my blood!

[Scott123]

Oh no.....This post made me nervous now.

I am near the end of my one-year lease. In fact, this is my first year living in Thailand (BKK). My rent is 30K baht per month. So the two month deposit is 60K baht, it is a good sum of money and I would hate to loose it.

Is it common that the landlord steals rent deposit like this at the end of contract?

[bangkokrick]

Oh no.....This post made me nervous now.

I am near the end of my one-year lease. In fact, this is my first year living in Thailand (BKK). My rent is 30K baht per month. So the two month deposit is 60K baht, it is a good sum of money and I would hate to loose it.

Is it common that the landlord steals rent deposit like this at the end of contract?

The same thing exactly happened to me on my last two rentals. They came up with all sorts of reasons that i should not get my deposits back damages etc which were really just wear and tear. I did not have a leg to stand on so just walked away. It seems to be common practice in Bangkok.

Cheers, Rick.

[midas]

Oh no.....This post made me nervous now.

I am near the end of my one-year lease. In fact, this is my first year living in Thailand (BKK). My rent is 30K baht per month. So the two month deposit is 60K baht, it is a good sum of money and I would hate to loose it.

Is it common that the landlord steals rent deposit like this at the end of contract?

Scott unfortunately I have to tell you it happens an awful lot more than it should

particularly with Thai landlords. If you are renting from a foreigner I don't think you would

have this problem so much because both parties tend to stick to the spirit of the

contract.

As someone said in another post "contracts mean nothing in this country "

My previous landlord tried to hit me for the varnish on the wooden floors coming off

in a couple of places but I quickly pointed to the wear and tear provision in the lease.

One thing about Thai people is the loss of face issue. I think if you make it very clear

that you will stop at nothing to publicise and expose the unfairness of the situation

they will back down. In many cases they don't like the possibility of confrontation

particularly in a prestige condominium block.

[agord]

One thing about Thai people is the loss of face issue. I think if you make it very clear

that you will stop at nothing to publicise and expose the unfairness of the situation

they will back down.

So true. I may have to go Michael Moore on them and bring my camera to their shop. It's really disgusts me to have to resort to playing games when there was a contract. I'm amazed at how someone can be so fake and smile and tell you to your face that they are honest and "don't worry we return to you" and the next minute act like your less than dirt and they don't owe you a thing.

[yeti]

Have your wife contact the Consumer Protection Board (sorry I don't know the number). It's part of their job to deal with things like this.

Just hope that they are able to work now (their office was located in the PAD occupied Government House).

[midas]

One thing about Thai people is the loss of face issue. I think if you make it very clear

that you will stop at nothing to publicise and expose the unfairness of the situation

they will back down.

So true. I may have to go Michael Moore on them and bring my camera to their shop. It's really disgusts me to have to resort to playing games when there was a contract. I'm amazed at how someone can be so fake and smile and tell you to your face that they are honest and "don't worry we return to you" and the next minute act like your less than dirt and they don't owe you a thing.

I feel exactly the same ! Like you it makes my blood boil !

Where I come from we have a government department to hold the deposit

in trust for the length of the lease. There is no interest payable because the use of the money

goes towards the running costs of the agency but at least you know you are dealing with an

impartial third party and both parties get a fair hearing if there is disagreement.

There has been nothing to stop the Thai authorities from introducing something like this

considering the number of foreign renters in Thailand. I dont know how

effective the Consumer Protection Board is but i have heard of it.

And so if the government will not meet that need, even though I'm not looking for

a business opportunity, I have often wondered if this represents any kind of

opportunity to provide some kind of database of landlords and real estate agents

you should keep away from throughout Thailand? Even if it was a specialized

forum like this, people could simply exchange their experiences and fully explain

what happened for the benefit of future tenants. Landlords like this rely

on the next sucker and another one after that to keep going and if they thought that was in any way

potentially threatened I think they would clean up their act.

I often wondered if such a database could even be extended to

real estate purchases and even beyond that to other consumer credit because I don't think

there is any source here in Thailand which lists persons who have poor credit and I think

business establishments would pay something to check if someone has a bad credit history ?

It is just an idea? I would be interested in feedback

[Scott123]

Have your wife contact the Consumer Protection Board (sorry I don't know the number). It's part of their job to deal with things like this.

Just hope that they are able to work now (their office was located in the PAD occupied Government House).

I found this through Google re "Office of the Consumer Protection Board of Thailand":

http://www.consumersinternational.org/Temp...mp;strSubSite=1

http://www.ocpb.go.th/index_address.html this is all in Thai, so it does not help.

I doubt this office will be helpful. Based on my observation, in all situations involving conflict of interest between Thais and foreigners, Thais' attitude is: farangs have money, farang should pay. Hence, Thais are always on Thais side. Not to mention the ability of Thais to resolve any problem: they rather pretend the problem does not exist than deal with it.

Edited November 15, 2008 by Scott123

[barky]

Oh no.....This post made me nervous now.

I am near the end of my one-year lease. In fact, this is my first year living in Thailand (BKK). My rent is 30K baht per month. So the two month deposit is 60K baht, it is a good sum of money and I would hate to loose it.

Is it common that the landlord steals rent deposit like this at the end of contract?

Yes, Scott it is far too common. They steal from Thais sometimes , but when it comes to a no count westener, often you have 50/50 chance of getting most of your money back. Invariably you will almost never get it all back anyway.

[yeti]

Have your wife contact the Consumer Protection Board (sorry I don't know the number). It's part of their job to deal with things like this.

Just hope that they are able to work now (their office was located in the PAD occupied Government House).

I found this through Google re "Office of the Consumer Protection Board of Thailand":

http://www.consumersinternational.org/Temp...mp;strSubSite=1

http://www.ocpb.go.th/index_address.html this is all in Thai, so it does not help.

I doubt this office will be helpful. Based on my observation, in all situations involving conflict of interest between Thais and foreigners, Thais' attitude is: farangs have money, farang should pay. Hence, Thais are always on Thais side. Not to mention the ability of Thais to resolve any problem: they rather pretend the problem does not exist than deal with it.

This is all in Thai and people involved will speak only Thai, but it doesn't mean that it "does not help". The OP wife is Thai and can certainly deal with them.

[Scott123]

Oh no.....This post made me nervous now.

I am near the end of my one-year lease. In fact, this is my first year living in Thailand (BKK). My rent is 30K baht per month. So the two month deposit is 60K baht, it is a good sum of money and I would hate to loose it.

Is it common that the landlord steals rent deposit like this at the end of contract?

Yes, Scott it is far too common. They steal from Thais sometimes , but when it comes to a no count westener, often you have 50/50 chance of getting most of your money back. Invariably you will almost never get it all back anyway.

OK. Thanks for letting me know. As I mentioned, this is my first year living in Thailand and I am starting to discover the ugly side of Thais, one thing at a time. One day when I am fed up, I will certainly depart....no string attached :-)

[agord]

Have your wife contact the Consumer Protection Board (sorry I don't know the number). It's part of their job to deal with things like this.

Just hope that they are able to work now (their office was located in the PAD occupied Government House).

I found this through Google re "Office of the Consumer Protection Board of Thailand":

http://www.consumersinternational.org/Temp...mp;strSubSite=1

http://www.ocpb.go.th/index_address.html this is all in Thai, so it does not help.

I doubt this office will be helpful. Based on my observation, in all situations involving conflict of interest between Thais and foreigners, Thais' attitude is: farangs have money, farang should pay. Hence, Thais are always on Thais side. Not to mention the ability of Thais to resolve any problem: they rather pretend the problem does not exist than deal with it.

This is all in Thai and people involved will speak only Thai, but it doesn't mean that it "does not help". The OP wife is Thai and can certainly deal with them.

Yes thank you very much for the link. My wife will follow up on Monday and I will let you all know the results. I have mixed emotions at this point because while I'm happy to see the support from you all It's discouraging that so many of us have been through this in a country that we obviously love and choose to live in. It's feel bad for my wife in this case becasue she is ashamed of how these people are acting. I agree with the post about Thais choosing to simply ignore problems instead of coming up with solutions to fix them. I see this at work all the time and have the burden of being the companies problem solver all the time. I think Thais (most not all) are very good at following or copying once something has been created

but lack the initiative or outside thinking to create for themselves. Just an observation from my short time here.

[thecatman]

A friend of mine had a similar situation to yours a couple of years ago, he simply called the Police to come and sort it all out. Now I can't remember the full details but I do recall that he ended up better off than he was going to. I know the Police here have a poor reputation, but you'll be surprised at how helpful they actually can be sometimes, (epecially if you tell them you'll make it worth their while).

[Scott123]

A friend of mine had a similar situation to yours a couple of years ago, he simply called the Police to come and sort it all out. Now I can't remember the full details but I do recall that he ended up better off than he was going to. I know the Police here have a poor reputation, but you'll be surprised at how helpful they actually can be sometimes, (epecially if you tell them you'll make it worth their while).

Next month if I don't get my deposit back, I plan to do all the followings:

1. call the police

2. take pictures of the apartment (indside and outside)

3. take pictures of the landlord and tell him the pictures will be all over the internet.

4. file a complaint at the consumer protection board

Any other suggestions?

[thecatman]

Next month if I don't get my deposit back, I plan to do all the followings:

1. call the police

2. take pictures of the apartment (indside and outside)

3. take pictures of the landlord and tell him the pictures will be all over the internet.

4. file a complaint at the consumer protection board

Any other suggestions?

Yeah, place or attach a kipper in a 'hard to find place' just before you leave.

[toptuan]

In general, deposits should just be considered as part of the cost of renting.

Financial Rule #1 in Thailand: Once you release your money, never count on a refund or return. (Further implications: never loan or deposit more than you're willing to lose. Lastly, consider any refunds a stroke of luck rather than your right.) That's the way most of this country operates.

I stopped doing out of town trips for the organization I work for, because they wouldn't honor common expense receipts--always found a ridiculous loophole to get out of reimbursing expenses! (e.g. one receipt they disallowed was because the Bangkok hotel invoice was stamped "PAID" in English rather than in Thai.)

Don't mean to get sidetracked, but just want to share with you the general mentality of the country which goes all the way from individuals who "borrow" funds, right up to higher levels of government organizations and institutions.

[thecatman]

My Landlord is Thai, I'm one of the lucky few as he's a really nice AND honest guy. The last time when my contract was coming to it's end he called me and told me not to pay the rent for the last 2 months and he'd keep the deposit (Which was 2 months rent) reason being, he simply wouldn't have the deposit to give back to me. I think this is the case more often than not that the Landlord simply does not have your deposit anymore, of course, they'd never admit this due to loss of face, and it doesn't make it right or any better for the you, but not paying the last month or 2 of rent can be a good way to avoid getting screwed.

[Shotime]

I wish I had read this a couple months ago. Luckily, I only got beat for 10,000 baht, but the pettiness of my landlady was what disgusted me the most. She came from a wealthy Thai family, and owned 14 units in the condo I was living in. It's a long story, but I was fortunate to only have the 10K baht left as deposit. She would come to me for advice in her business matters, and I was friendly with her husband and children. As distrustful as I am, I really fully expected to get my deposit back. I'm not even sure why she made up a list of ridiculous damages that, at the end, resulted in me owing her money. It couldn't be the money, but it looked like she got a kick out of cheating me out of my money. After reading this, it pissed me off all over again. I think I'm going to start a campaign of exposing her as the cheap, petty, lying person she is. I'm not usually vindictive, and I know I shouldn't let her creepiness become my problem, but I think I'll enjoy doing it.

[agord]

My Landlord is Thai, I'm one of the lucky few as he's a really nice AND honest guy. The last time when my contract was coming to it's end he called me and told me not to pay the rent for the last 2 months and he'd keep the deposit (Which was 2 months rent) reason being, he simply wouldn't have the deposit to give back to me. I think this is the case more often than not that the Landlord simply does not have your deposit anymore, of course, they'd never admit this due to loss of face, and it doesn't make it right or any better for the you, but not paying the last month or 2 of rent can be a good way to avoid getting screwed.

Yep agreed. My wife let me know her fotune teller said the reason was becasue they didn't have any money. Where do they get their powers from? amazing!

[agord]

I wish I had read this a couple months ago. Luckily, I only got beat for 10,000 baht, but the pettiness of my landlady was what disgusted me the most. She came from a wealthy Thai family, and owned 14 units in the condo I was living in. It's a long story, but I was fortunate to only have the 10K baht left as deposit. She would come to me for advice in her business matters, and I was friendly with her husband and children. As distrustful as I am, I really fully expected to get my deposit back. I'm not even sure why she made up a list of ridiculous damages that, at the end, resulted in me owing her money. It couldn't be the money, but it looked like she got a kick out of cheating me out of my money. After reading this, it pissed me off all over again. I think I'm going to start a campaign of exposing her as the cheap, petty, lying person she is. I'm not usually vindictive, and I know I shouldn't let her creepiness become my problem, but I think I'll enjoy doing it.

Yeah we had the same frienly relationship as you mention. I would play with their son when they came over to take care of the garden. They have a Koi pond that I looked after and everything was really nice up until the time we asked for the deposit back.

[JiveTalker]

I wish I had read this a couple months ago. Luckily, I only got beat for 10,000 baht, but the pettiness of my landlady was what disgusted me the most. She came from a wealthy Thai family, and owned 14 units in the condo I was living in. It's a long story, but I was fortunate to only have the 10K baht left as deposit. She would come to me for advice in her business matters, and I was friendly with her husband and children. As distrustful as I am, I really fully expected to get my deposit back. I'm not even sure why she made up a list of ridiculous damages that, at the end, resulted in me owing her money. It couldn't be the money, but it looked like she got a kick out of cheating me out of my money. After reading this, it pissed me off all over again. I think I'm going to start a campaign of exposing her as the cheap, petty, lying person she is. I'm not usually vindictive, and I know I shouldn't let her creepiness become my problem, but I think I'll enjoy doing it.

2 different places in Phuket, 2 full deposits stolen. I now refuse to pay more than 1 month rent deposit, and just write it off.

Two "friendly" landlords who turned out to be thieving scum, and there is pretty much nothing we can do.

[Sophon]

I have placed two deposits on apartments in Bangkok, and both times got the deposits back in full. And to be quite honest, in both cases the landlords would have been justified in withholding some of the deposit for repairs (beyond normal wear and tear).

In both cases the landlords were Thai.

Sophon

[thecatman]

I have placed two deposits on apartments in Bangkok, and both times got the deposits back in full. And to be quite honest, in both cases the landlords would have been justified in withholding some of the deposit for repairs (beyond normal wear and tear).

In both cases the landlords were Thai.

Sophon

Sure, of course there are probably as many good Landlords as there are bad. I've also been very lucky, but have many friends who have been less fortunate. My advise would be to definately not pay the last month's rent, at least you'll half your loss potential that way.

[midas]

I have placed two deposits on apartments in Bangkok, and both times got the deposits back in full. And to be quite honest, in both cases the landlords would have been justified in withholding some of the deposit for repairs (beyond normal wear and tear).

In both cases the landlords were Thai.

Sophon

So what ? Bully for you ! Your post a meaningless because no one has suggested this kind of behavior happens

100 percent of the time. You're one of the lucky few. The OP requested feedback as

to how to respond to some of these unscrupulous people of which there are far more

than there should be.

[Scott123]

..... My advise would be to definately not pay the last month's rent, at least you'll half your loss potential that way.

Actually, when you think about it, if you move out 1 month before end of contract, you loose one month worth of rental deposit, PLUS one month (the last month) of occupying the apartment, you still loose 2 month worth of rent...uless you can find a place to stay for free for one month after you move out of the apartment.

Same rule goes for moving out 2 month before end of contract.

The only thing this strategy does is that the landlord makes less money in total from you-- one month rent less.

Edited November 15, 2008 by Scott123

[thecatman]

..... My advise would be to definately not pay the last month's rent, at least you'll half your loss potential that way.

Actually, when you think about it, if you move out 1 month before end of contract, you loose one month worth of rental deposit, plus one month (the last month) of occupying the apartment, you still loose 2 month worth of rental deposit...uless you can find a place to stay for free for one month after you move out of the apartment.

Same rule goes for moving out 2 month before end of contract.

I wasn't suggesting you move out one month early. Stay the full term of the contract, just don't make the last rental payment and tell them to take it out of the deposit.

I actually think alot of Landlords would see this as 'common procedure' and expect it to happen.

Edited November 15, 2008 by thecatman