Rental Deposits Going One Way In Thailand

[agord]

Yep. So whatcha goin' do? Get on with your life or let this continue to eat at you?

TH

I'm going to continue to let it eat me while also getting on with my life. Your indifference to this is troubling and I wonder if you would be so blase if it happened to you a few times?

[thaibreaker]

I have placed two deposits on apartments in Bangkok, and both times got the deposits back in full. And to be quite honest, in both cases the landlords would have been justified in withholding some of the deposit for repairs (beyond normal wear and tear).

In both cases the landlords were Thai.

Sophon

Good for you. I have had a similar experience, gotten my two first deposits back, but then heavily screwed the third time.

I lost 60K, and definitely never trust anyone again. Except maybe my wife

This time around I insisted paying only one month deposit, the landlord agreed as the times arent too good for them nowadays. Now I consider the deposit a part of the rent.

I will give it a shot asking if the deposit can cover my last month, but my hopes are not high.

I can only give this as an advice in the future, consider the deposit as a part of the rent, and just be happy if you get it back.

[think_too_mut]

I wonder if you would be so blase if it happened to you a few times?

It has to happen a few times. Nothing wrong with you?

[agord]

I wonder if you would be so blase if it happened to you a few times?

It has to happen a few times. Nothing wrong with you?

Sweet! Great advice ok I will go in with my head in the clouds then and just give away my money to all bullshit artists without so much as a care in the world. Thanks for your insightful posts. The last few posters are clearly some of our best and brightest.

[Scott123]

Yep. So whatcha goin' do? Get on with your life or let this continue to eat at you?

TH

You can get on with your life, and in the mean time make the owner suffer for the money he/she steals.

Protecting my own right and seeking justice does not eat me, it serves my personal satisfaction and integrity.

In your farangland, if something happens to you that you feel is unfair, do you just let it go?

Edited November 17, 2008 by Scott123

[thaihome]

Yep. So whatcha goin' do? Get on with your life or let this continue to eat at you?

TH

You can get on with your life, and in the mean time make the owner suffer for the money he/she steals.

Protecting my own right and seeking justice does not eat me, it serves my personal satisfaction and integrity.

In your farangland, if something happens to you that you feel is unfair, do you just let it go?

I avoid vindictiveness as in the end the end it never accomplishes anything good.

I have learned to pick my battles and not waste my time on pointless exercises I cannot win.

I do not let other people dictate my personal emotional state.

I suggest you study some Buddhist precepts, many of which are nothing more then common sense. If you are going to live in Asia, you will find you are much happier person if you can learn to follow them.

TH

[agord]

Yep. So whatcha goin' do? Get on with your life or let this continue to eat at you?

TH

You can get on with your life, and in the mean time make the owner suffer for the money he/she steals.

Protecting my own right and seeking justice does not eat me, it serves my personal satisfaction and integrity.

In your farangland, if something happens to you that you feel is unfair, do you just let it go?

I avoid vindictiveness as in the end the end it never accomplishes anything good.

I have learned to pick my battles and not waste my time on pointless exercises I cannot win.

I do not let other people dictate my personal emotional state.

I suggest you study some Buddhist precepts, many of which are nothing more then common sense. If you are going to live in Asia, you will find you are much happier person if you can learn to follow them.

TH

Thank you for the teachings oh wise one but what a bunch of crap. Why do you even browse topics on here then? Nothing matters to you eh

"Do not speak unless it improves your silence" - suggest you follow this one

[yabaaaa]

We moved condo last month and got the deposit back except for a broken dimmer switch light which they replaced for a few hundred baht. Had been there for 18 months.

[yabaaaa]

Despite Farangs moanings Thais will happily do to Thais what they do to Farangs.

[007]

My Landlord is Thai, I'm one of the lucky few as he's a really nice AND honest guy. The last time when my contract was coming to it's end he called me and told me not to pay the rent for the last 2 months and he'd keep the deposit (Which was 2 months rent) reason being, he simply wouldn't have the deposit to give back to me. I think this is the case more often than not that the Landlord simply does not have your deposit anymore...

You lost me here!! I can imagine, that he doesn't have those banknotes anymore, but he still has money to run his business, doesn't he. Back home the landlord is required by law to deposit the tenant's rental deposit in a seperate savings account and refund it, incl. accrued interest(!!) to the tenant once he moves out. Funny to think, that the bank would pay out the original banknotes...

Edited November 18, 2008 by 7

[think_too_mut]

My Landlord is Thai, I'm one of the lucky few as he's a really nice AND honest guy. The last time when my contract was coming to it's end he called me and told me not to pay the rent for the last 2 months and he'd keep the deposit (Which was 2 months rent) reason being, he simply wouldn't have the deposit to give back to me. I think this is the case more often than not that the Landlord simply does not have your deposit anymore...

You lost me here!! I can imagine, that he doesn't have those banknotes anymore, but he still has money to run his business, doesn't he. Back home the landlord is required by law to deposit the tenant's rental deposit in a seperate savings account and refund it, incl. accrued interest(!!) to the tenant once he moves out. Funny to think, that the bank would pay out the original banknotes...

Why would landlord have to have any business to run? Simply 1 condo someone from somewhere bought to rent out or for whatever reason.

And yes, when my wife called the landlord to cancel (the contract with Plus rental agency had expired 1 year earlier and no need to talk to them) the lady said "I just noticed arrival of your 2 months rent from Oz bank, why did you pay last two months if you are moving out? Now I will have to go the bank counter and get that money out to return to you when you surrender the keys".

She has 4 condos in the building and, when was around, dropped in for a chat 4-5 times during our tenancy. Even brought a small present for our daughter when we returned the keys.

[agord]

My Landlord is Thai, I'm one of the lucky few as he's a really nice AND honest guy. The last time when my contract was coming to it's end he called me and told me not to pay the rent for the last 2 months and he'd keep the deposit (Which was 2 months rent) reason being, he simply wouldn't have the deposit to give back to me. I think this is the case more often than not that the Landlord simply does not have your deposit anymore...

You lost me here!! I can imagine, that he doesn't have those banknotes anymore, but he still has money to run his business, doesn't he. Back home the landlord is required by law to deposit the tenant's rental deposit in a seperate savings account and refund it, incl. accrued interest(!!) to the tenant once he moves out. Funny to think, that the bank would pay out the original banknotes...

Why would landlord have to have any business to run? Simply 1 condo someone from somewhere bought to rent out or for whatever reason.

And yes, when my wife called the landlord to cancel (the contract with Plus rental agency had expired 1 year earlier and no need to talk to them) the lady said "I just noticed arrival of your 2 months rent from Oz bank, why did you pay last two months if you are moving out? Now I will have to go the bank counter and get that money out to return to you when you surrender the keys".

She has 4 condos in the building and, when was around, dropped in for a chat 4-5 times during our tenancy. Even brought a small present for our daughter when we returned the keys.

Thai logic. Because outside of bizzaro world we don't use security deposits to pay our rent we actually use them for security in case someone doesn't pay rent or breaks something hence the word security. I regretfully brought them back presents from my trip to Hong Kong. I should also mention that while I was awy for a month they decided to paint the inside of the house and left the windows open. When I came home I had to throw out my bedding and most of our clothes because of the mold damage from this idiotic move. Never billed them for that, never said a word just took the loss. Again I didn't want this to be a Thai bad - Farang good thread or compare refund stories just venting a little (or as some might see it a lot and for no reason) over having been repeatedly ripped off. Now I will go and medidate under a tree somewhere and go on with my life.

[MyphuketLife]

I have rented three places, one condo and two houses in my four years here. Always got my money back. although the two houses I always asked to meet them at their house (not the rental) to sign the contract and pay desposit. I don't know if I got my money back because I knew where they live or because they were honest...

But in the end you can tell allot by the landlord by how his/her own house look. Also I have comfort in knowing that I can/would cause more damage to the house they live in than what is owed to me.

[midas]

I have rented three places, one condo and two houses in my four years here. Always got my money back. although the two houses I always asked to meet them at their house (not the rental) to sign the contract and pay desposit. I don't know if I got my money back because I knew where they live or because they were honest...

But in the end you can tell allot by the landlord by how his/her own house look. Also I have comfort in knowing that I can/would cause more damage to the house they live in than what is owed to me.

That is not a particularly intelligent approach The landord could call the police

and you may end up in the monkey house .............

[thecatman]

My Landlord is Thai, I'm one of the lucky few as he's a really nice AND honest guy. The last time when my contract was coming to it's end he called me and told me not to pay the rent for the last 2 months and he'd keep the deposit (Which was 2 months rent) reason being, he simply wouldn't have the deposit to give back to me. I think this is the case more often than not that the Landlord simply does not have your deposit anymore...

You lost me here!! I can imagine, that he doesn't have those banknotes anymore, but he still has money to run his business, doesn't he. Back home the landlord is required by law to deposit the tenant's rental deposit in a seperate savings account and refund it, incl. accrued interest(!!) to the tenant once he moves out. Funny to think, that the bank would pay out the original banknotes...

It's a private rent, He doesn't have a business, just a regular office job. Your talk about 'the original banknotes' makes you look a knob.

[Digger]

This makes me wonder if the contract was in Thai or English? if its using a pre-printed Thai contract where the details are filled in by pen, they are full of clauses that totally indemnify the landlord and NOT the renter. Basically your responsible for everything within the condo no matter what it is.

[agord]

This makes me wonder if the contract was in Thai or English? if its using a pre-printed Thai contract where the details are filled in by pen, they are full of clauses that totally indemnify the landlord and NOT the renter. Basically your responsible for everything within the condo no matter what it is.

The contract is in English and was prepared by the agent. I'm moving on with a very bitter taste in my mouth left not only by the landlord but this particular agent for not stepping up when she should have. My wife and I are in the market for a home or condo this coming spring and needless to say we won't be having her as our agent. I agree with the comments about Asia and Thailand and having lived and worked in other Asian countries I can tell you that Thailand is a unique place both in good and bad ways.

[yeti]

Please tell us if the Consumer Protection Board is of any use.

[agord]

Please tell us if the Consumer Protection Board is of any use.

I was holding off until I had more but just to update they were very helpfull with my wife on the phone and gave her a contact at city hall in Phuket Town that handles this type of thing. She will have to go there and file a report but having talked with them on the phone already she said that they were interested and said they could help. Will have to wait and see as I am never sold on the initial positivity of Thais; maybe easier to say they can do something than have conflict if they say they can't. I will keep you posted.

[torrenova]

Here's my experience over the last 3 properties.

First one a condo rented for over 3 years through an agent with 1 month deposit. They were always late collecting the rent so during the last month I just went on the last day of the tenancy and paid the outstanding water and electric bills. No argument as to the deposit.

Second place for one year. A house rented from a western owner through a Thai agent who acted only as a tenant finder and did not collect the rent which was done by a friend of the owner. The agent received 1 month's rent out of the 2 month's rent put down as deposit. It became quite clear during the tenancy that the English owner had no money neither did his friend. Often he would come round looking for some money on account (ahead or near rent day) for one reason or another. I saw no way that his friend would have the two month's deposit and the owner was in the UK. I told the agent and his friend that I would not be paying rent for the last two months. The agent was ok with this but the friend was not. All ok in the end, all bills paid but I would never have got the deposit back until a new tenant had paid up for the next contract.

We are in the third property now. Two months deposit, one of which is to be used as the final month's rent. As only 5k month up country it is hardly an issue.

My experiences are that using a reputable western or Thai agent can be ok but what is certain is that most landlords do not like giving back cash they perceive as theirs. To be honest, the landlord should never be given the deposit but it should be held in an escrow type account for the benefit of the tenant. This does not happen in Thailand and what is worse is that the agent's fees are taken from the deposit initially so the owner never actually sees the full deposit amount and does not accrue over the term of the tenancy an amount to repay the deposit to the tenant. Many landlords stall at least until they get a new tenant and simply pass the deposit (minus whatever they can deduct) from the new tenant to the old one.

As soon as I move into a new place I change all external locks. I have keys available at different places and the owner or agent can obtain these at will with my permission. I do not like to pay 2 month's deposit but when an agent is taking 1 month's rent as commission, then not giving two month's rent as deposit means the landlord is left with nothing as he conveniently forgets what he has paid the agent.

My advice is to look for a place to live with plenty of time available to you. You may then reject a place where you think the landlord or agent may not be willing to repay the deposit. Withholding the final month's rent is almost standard practice.

[Shotime]

I hesitate to get in the middle of this, but I had something relevant to the topic which i wanted to post. I have just moved into a new apartment in a totally Thai neighborhood. I haven't seen another farang in a few days. I only point this out because I was shocked and amazed as to the rental arrangement which I've never heard of before. I got into a fight with my Thai Working Girl Friend because I asked the manager of the apartment house about it and wouldn't believe what she was telling me. She hates when I do that. In any case, they asked for two months rent up front, and no rent until the end of the first month. This is basically, a one month deposit. If I should break the lease, or should they refuse to give me back anything at the end of the lease, I only can lose one month's rent. I wonder if that's a Thai thing. It sounds bizarre enough.

[agord]

I hesitate to get in the middle of this, but I had something relevant to the topic which i wanted to post. I have just moved into a new apartment in a totally Thai neighborhood. I haven't seen another farang in a few days. I only point this out because I was shocked and amazed as to the rental arrangement which I've never heard of before. I got into a fight with my Thai Working Girl Friend because I asked the manager of the apartment house about it and wouldn't believe what she was telling me. She hates when I do that. In any case, they asked for two months rent up front, and no rent until the end of the first month. This is basically, a one month deposit. If I should break the lease, or should they refuse to give me back anything at the end of the lease, I only can lose one month's rent. I wonder if that's a Thai thing. It sounds bizarre enough.

Yes this makes sense only in Thailand. I would of liked to not pay the last months rent but that wasn't the agreement and I kept my word. I had my wife talk to them two months before to get their promise that they would return the deposit with a follow up call to the agent who said "don't worry you will get it back" So do these poeple have no honour what so ever? Who lives like this really? I want to make it clear that this is what it is about, not the money or revenge it's about being lied to right to your face, it's about a well know agent in Phuket, who supposedly has a good reputation, letting this happen without condemnation. I still cannot get her to acknowledge that what they did is wrong or even apologize? Sure this is Thailand but I have chosen to live here and my wife is Thai, it's important to me that there is some justice available if i am to feel good about staying here. It would be nice for her to see her countries legal process work and that this can be handled in ways other than having family member from province come to town on a shooting spree.

[Shotime]

"So do these poeple have no honour what so ever? Who lives like this really?"

These are the relevant questions. However, the "these people" part is what you have to be careful with. It can only apply to the people you are doing business with. In their particular case, the answers are no, they don't, and because they lack any, they live with it. No problem. In fact, they probably get some perverted sense of pleasure out of fuc_king you. To let it bother you only increases that sense of pleasure. If you have no recourse, and apparently you don't, legally anyway, you're fuc_ked. You can only hope, and this really isn't good for you either, that they get theirs someday. You try not to let yourself get into that position again. Maintaining your own integrity, honor, and dignity is what's most important. With that said, lock and load.

[torrenova]

I hesitate to get in the middle of this, but I had something relevant to the topic which i wanted to post. I have just moved into a new apartment in a totally Thai neighborhood. I haven't seen another farang in a few days. I only point this out because I was shocked and amazed as to the rental arrangement which I've never heard of before. I got into a fight with my Thai Working Girl Friend because I asked the manager of the apartment house about it and wouldn't believe what she was telling me. She hates when I do that. In any case, they asked for two months rent up front, and no rent until the end of the first month. This is basically, a one month deposit. If I should break the lease, or should they refuse to give me back anything at the end of the lease, I only can lose one month's rent. I wonder if that's a Thai thing. It sounds bizarre enough.

What you are talking about is commonly referred to as "first and last" where you do not pay the first month's rent and neither do you pay the last month's rent. Yours seems to not have this last stipulation.

The advantage of this is that they see some money up front but do not have any to give back at the end. Less security for them but TIT !

[thaihome]

[... So do these poeple have no honour what so ever? Who lives like this really? ...

It's hard world out there, and people will verbally tell you anything you want to hear, but unless you have some actual leverage, they are just words and money is money…

TH

[agord]

[... So do these poeple have no honour what so ever? Who lives like this really? ...

Do you actually do much business in Asia other then renting homes/apt and paying deposits?

It's hard world out there, and people will verbally tell you anything you want to hear, but unless you have some actual leverage, they are just words and money is money…

TH

"These people" in this case is lierally these people (the landlords and agent)

TH- I'm in a senior position with one of Thailand's biggest companies so in a way I have been sheltered from this. There is no way in hel_l the people I do business with through work would for one minute think about trying to screw over the man I work for. Do you go through this type of thing every time you renew your English teaching contract? We are following the process and leaving it up to our attorney and the local govt. I know the chances are slim but let's play it out at this point it's become a little hobby for me. I'm well aware of your opinion on this and you will never understand why I'm willing to spend more than the deposit is worth to see these people pay up so let's just agree to disagree.

[redbean]

Good luck to the OP in getting somewhere on this. It's happened to me before also and just one of the many BS things about living in LOS, that and the other idiotic expats out there trying to tear one another down all the time Choke dii khap!

[Sheryl]

My wife says, Thais would not pay last month rent and see what gets cut from the remaining month of the deposit.

That is also exactly what any New Yorker (NYC) would do. It's a given there that landlords will otherwsie find ways not to pay the deposit back (easily enough done by finding exagerated fault with normal wear and tear and then inflating the value of the supposed "damage) or at a minimum take their sweet time and require aggressive follow up by you to do it.

Granted real estate life in NYC is especially cut-throat, but still...this is not anything unique to Asia or Thailand.

And not paying the last month's rent makes total sense, as then reverse who holds the pourse strings: it is then up to the landlord to get from you any money you may owe for any damage that may have occurred. (Of course, ione should do the right thing and pay up if there was any damage...but unless something unusual occurred this will usually be much less than the last month's rent).

[Shotime]

If you don't pay the last months rent here in Thailand, won't the landlord do everything they can to make your life miserable. Shut off the electric, water, etc. Not sure what else they could do, but they could change the locks. I realize that in NY they can't do such things, but they might break your arm there.

[Sheryl]

Actually I think this is normal practice in Thailand and rather than getting your arm broken, what will usually happen is that the landlord will simply come by as soon as he realizes this is what's going on to check out the condition of the place to make sure you don't abscond without paying for any damages) and as long as he sees all is ship-shape, do nothing more except maybe drop by again to make sure they stay so....or possibly start up some negotiations over payment for small damages.

This is assuming of course that it has all been handled pleasantly and politely, Thai-style -- and that you are dealing with typical Thais. In other words, this is what would usually happen, AFAIK it is also how most Thai renters would handle it.

Every once in a while one does come across people who don't behave decently. Sometimes because they feel that normal social rules/standards needn't apply in dealings with a foreigner, and sometimes because they are just the type who simply don't play by the rules period. With people like that, there is going to be a problem no matter what approach you have taken and you're left with having to decide whether to write it off and put up a fight.