Salary Not Paid - What Can I Do ?

[expatman]

The company I work for has not paid October's salary to anyone yet. For the past several months they have been paying late, but usually within a few days after end of month. Now, however, I have heard unofficially (no one is saying anything officially) that salaries for October will be paid at the end of November, and no one knows when November salary will be paid.

Are there any laws/regulations as to how long a company can delay paying wages until they are considering in breach of contract ?

Any suggestions on how to handle this ? (Constructive comments only please)

[kiakaha]

The company I work for has not paid October's salary to anyone yet. For the past several months they have been paying late, but usually within a few days after end of month. Now, however, I have heard unofficially (no one is saying anything officially) that salaries for October will be paid at the end of November, and no one knows when November salary will be paid.

Are there any laws/regulations as to how long a company can delay paying wages until they are considering in breach of contract ?

Any suggestions on how to handle this ? (Constructive comments only please)

are you an employee or a contractor ?

what are the terms of your contract ?

[thaihome]

The most constructive comment I can think of is to find another job ASAP. Rarely when a company is missing payrolls do they ever recover. Just think how far behind they probably are with suppliers or other creditiors.

TH

[expatman]

The most constructive comment I can think of is to find another job ASAP. Rarely when a company is missing payrolls do they ever recover. Just think how far behind they probably are with suppliers or other creditiors.

TH

Of course I'm looking for another job, but it probably would have to be in another country as my field is fairly specialized and there are only 2 or 3 other companies in the same business here. However, I don't really want to leave Thailand.

I've been working for this company for a long time and they've always been operating on a shoestring. With the current credit crunch I'm not surprised at the cashflow problems. One cause of this is that most of the clients are government agencies that don't pay quickly after a project is finished.

What I'd really like to know is how long they can not pay without being legally considered to have terminated unpaid employees. I don't want to quit, if I am laid off they owe me 6 months severance pay (in another few months that would be 8 months). The problem is that they aren't telling anyone anything definite, at least before when salaries were late they said something like "We're waiting for customer X to pay his bill nextr week".

[expatman]

The company I work for has not paid October's salary to anyone yet. For the past several months they have been paying late, but usually within a few days after end of month. Now, however, I have heard unofficially (no one is saying anything officially) that salaries for October will be paid at the end of November, and no one knows when November salary will be paid.

Are there any laws/regulations as to how long a company can delay paying wages until they are considering in breach of contract ?

Any suggestions on how to handle this ? (Constructive comments only please)

are you an employee or a contractor ?

what are the terms of your contract ?

Full-time employee with written open-ended contract (not for a fixed term).

The contract specifies salary to be paid monthly before month-end, and that the contract can be terminated by either party by giving 1 month notice.

[joskydive]

Civil and Commercial Code. Title VI.

Hire of Services.

Section 580. If no time for payment of remuneration is fixed by the contract or by custom, the remuneration is payable after the services have been rendered; if fixed by periods, the remuneration is payable at the end of each period.

Since your contract states clearly that you will be paid monthly before month-end, they have no right to withhold payment for any time. I suggest you remind them of your contract conditions and if that doesn't work your next move would have to be a visit to a Lawyer.

[CaptHaddock]

The company I work for has not paid October's salary to anyone yet. For the past several months they have been paying late, but usually within a few days after end of month. Now, however, I have heard unofficially (no one is saying anything officially) that salaries for October will be paid at the end of November, and no one knows when November salary will be paid.

Are there any laws/regulations as to how long a company can delay paying wages until they are considering in breach of contract ?

Any suggestions on how to handle this ? (Constructive comments only please)

I am not in Thailand, but here in the US I have always found that when a company stops paying you should stop working immediately, that very minute. Once they get far behind they put you in the position of working as a speculation to recover back wages. If they can take advantage of you in their hour of need, why wouldn't they?

Instead of quitting, why don't you just stop going in to work until they become current? If they don't need you, they won't pay, but they probably wouldn't have paid anyway. If they do need you, they'll pay. Encourage your co-workers to do the same.

I don't know if in Thailand they can fire you for a no-show when they are not paying you. Even if they can, that may be better than being further victimized by the scoundrels.

[Scott]

I would be a little more forgiving of the company at this point. First, unless/until you have other employment, it might be worth your while to hang in there for a time. The job market is not particularly good. Since you've been with the company for quite a while, this may not just be an attempt to screw employees over. If they don't have the money, they don't have the money. If they can't get a loan, then they can't get a loan. You will have an equally difficult time collecting your severence pay as you do your salary.

You know your employer and your own situation best, so you need to make the best decision for you.

Best of luck to you and keep us posted as to the outcome.

[expatman]

I would be a little more forgiving of the company at this point. First, unless/until you have other employment, it might be worth your while to hang in there for a time. The job market is not particularly good. Since you've been with the company for quite a while, this may not just be an attempt to screw employees over. If they don't have the money, they don't have the money. If they can't get a loan, then they can't get a loan. You will have an equally difficult time collecting your severence pay as you do your salary.

You know your employer and your own situation best, so you need to make the best decision for you.

Best of luck to you and keep us posted as to the outcome.

I will wait and see what happens at the end of this month. Supposedly the company is waiting to receive some payments from cutomers before they can pay salary. This has happened before, but until now salaries were never more than a few days late. The project I am working on is funded by Thai government until next Oct 1 at least, but company as a whole is short of cash.

What I really need advice on is how this can affect my permission to stay in Thailand, as my visa (extension of stay, actually) is dependent on my work permit. If I quit I have to leave Thailand almost immediately and then get another visa to come back. If I'm not officially terminated (but not being paid) I assume my permission to stay is valid until it runs out in January (when work permit would need to be renewed.

As for stopping work, I don't think that's a good idea. The contract states :

"the Employer may immediately terminate this agreement without advance notice and without severance pay, payment in lieu of notice, or any other compensation whatsoever if the termination is made under any of the following circumstances :

...

(v) the Employee neglects his duties for 3 consecutive working days without justifiable reason. "

Not being paid should be a "justifiable reason", but I don't want to chance the company using this as an excuse.

Of course I may start getting "sick" - don't need any doctor's note unless sickness is 3 days or more.

If the company goes under I still should get at least some of my back pay / severance pay, although it would probably take a while and require lodging a complaint with the Labour Department and probably also hiring a lawyer to follow it up, especially if I'm not continuously in country.

[CaptHaddock]

If the company goes under I still should get at least some of my back pay / severance pay, although it would probably take a while and require lodging a complaint with the Labour Department and probably also hiring a lawyer to follow it up, especially if I'm not continuously in country.

If the company goes under, who would pay your back wages?

[expatman]

If the company goes under I still should get at least some of my back pay / severance pay, although it would probably take a while and require lodging a complaint with the Labour Department and probably also hiring a lawyer to follow it up, especially if I'm not continuously in country.

If the company goes under, who would pay your back wages?

If company goes under assets would be liquidated and proceeds distributed to those owed money. The Revenue Department (unpaid tax) and employees (unpaid wages, severence pay, etc) get first claim on these funds, other creditors (i.e. suppliers) get paid only if anything is left.

That's the theory, anyway !

[Scott]

Depending on what goes on with the company, they may be willing to leave your work permit as is. This isn't exactly legal, but it takes a bit of work and effort to actually cancel it, so a lot of places just let it run out. If you find other work, they will need to cancel it to get a new one.

If your being cooperative with them, chances are they'll be helpful to you and since you a history with the company, you will be able to work things to your maximum advantage.

[DocJD]

If you want to keep good relations with your boss and company in the event of a financial recovery, I would not recommend you stop working or threaten legal action at this point. Having said that, it's always a good idea to start preparing and implementing at least 2 back up plans.

Joskydive quoted section 580 of the Labor Act, but it neither specifies the timeframe in which your employer must pay you nor the plan of action required when renumeration isn't received. For this information, you will need to consult with a competent lawyer. Keep your activities regarding seeking counsul away from your workplace. Just use the information to start creating a backup plan of action for now. On as side note: if you do start looking for a new job locally, avoid using job websites as your current employer could catch on to your activities.

Edited November 20, 2008 by DocJD