Recently while hiking in the hills south of Kyoto, Japan, I came across an imperial temple (i.e. one that originally had members of the imperial family as abbots) of the Tendai sect whose main object of worship was an image of Bishamon-ten, one of the Four Heavenly Kings. It's quite common for these ancient temples to enshrine images of deities borrowed from Hindu mythology and transformed into "guardians of the Dhamma." In fact, many of the really old temples seem to focus on rituals, chanting and worship of obscure deities.

Imagine my surprise then when I entered the main hall and found on a table a copy of Ven. P. A. Payutto's The Three Signs translated into English by a British monk. I don't think I've ever seen an English-language Dhamma publication in a Japanese temple before and I doubt there would be many Western visitors to this particular place. Anyway, it's good stuff and available online.

Imagine my surprise then when I entered the main hall and found on a table a copy of Ven. P. A. Payutto's The Three Signs translated into English by a British monk.

I've been doing a little studying of this document with great interest.

Things which come to mind are statements such as heaven & hel_l and God which seem to contradict our current understanding of Buddhism.

Also I'm confused about living life with the knowledge of the three truths that "we are conditioned", "we are impermanent", & that "there is no self which is in control".

It states that being heedful and living life with this knowledge will allow us to grow towards enlightenment and the truth.

Even our consciousness is described an illusion, as we are involved a series of interconnected thoughts and conditioned responses with apparent continuity.

Video games involving war, battle and death come to mind in which gamers kill many in all manner of ways in virtual worlds. The reason why gamers kill so lustfully without any inhibition is due to the knowledge that their prey is not real, is conditioned, is impermant and there is no one in control.

If the three truths are true about humans and the animal kingdom then what stops us from killing and maiming?

Of course there are also other rules we must follow, but knowing we are empty conditioned vessels doesn't seem to promote care for others.

Edited November 27, 200817 yr by rockyysdt

Of course there are also other rules we must follow, but knowing we are empty conditioned vessels doesn't seem to promote care for others.

Most people have no problem with the idea that plants are empty conditioned vessels, yet many of us spend hours nurturing and caring for our gardens. So I don't think a belief that humans each have an individual self is a pre-requisite to have caring and compassion for others.

I think that the realisation that we are essentially the same, rather than separate individuals, that we are connected rather than separate gives rise empathy and compassion.

However a wrong view of non-self I guess can lead to what you are talking about, your example in the other post of thai farmers displaying cruelty to animals might be an example of his.

For the stuff about God and He11 that you had problems with, you'd have to give us the context of what was written.

The teaching of the three signs is aimed at showing us what we are not. AFAIK, the Buddha never tried to tell anyone what/who they are - as Aj Sumedho said, "If I told you who you are, would you believe me?" People think they have some kind of eternal, unchanging self or soul and the teachings are aimed at seeing through that illusion. The illusion is that the 5 aggregates make up this eternal self, and that to be unchanging this self has to be in control of those 5 aggregates (in order to resist change). That's why we have the examples that you can't order your body not to get sick, you can't order your mind not to be angry/upset, etc. So Ven Payutto says the 5 aggregates "are not truly subject to a person's ownership or control." In a similar vein, most people believe their consciousness is continuous from birth to death, leading to a belief that it may continue afterwards. But this is also an illusion because according to Buddhist psychology it is a series of "mind moments" rather than a continuous stream. So where is the precious unchanging self in between each mind moment?

What stops us from killing and maiming? Do you want to kill? Would it benefit you in the long term? As I see it, the motivation for doing anything starts out at birth as genetic programming (eating, drinking, sleeping, etc). As we develop ego, everything we do is a result of self-interest. Most of us would not have any reason to kill another human, so we don't. But if we have a reason to kill an animal, say for food, we might do it.

When we decide we want to attain nibbana, it's the ego and self-interest again. Who wouldn't want to get rid of all suffering? Then compassion and the rest of the path follow on as more self-interest - skillful self-interest. Once we attain nibbana, the self, the ego is gone, so we are motivated by concern for the welfare of all beings, rather than just ourselves.

Think of the three signs as being an intellectual proof that our body and mind are not the unchanging "self" we assume they are. A deeper proof is available through doing vipassana meditation.

I agree with all that's been said.

I personally would never want to kill human or animal.

It's just that it is easy to think that if we are "impermanent", "conditioned" and "with no self" then we are nothing.

I don't think it is ...we are conditioned.... if I remember correctly it is.....

The Three characteristics of compounded existence are: Suffering, Impermanence and Non-self

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_marks_of_existence

I don't think it is ...we are conditioned.... if I remember correctly it is.....

The Three characteristics of compounded existence are: Suffering, Impermanence and Non-self

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_marks_of_existence

The following two verses of the Buddha represent the value of the

Three Characteristics for Dhamma practice:

Indeed, all conditioned things are impermanent, prone to arise

and pass away. Having arisen, they cease; their coming to rest is

truest bliss.74

Monks, all conditioned things are of a nature to decay; strive to

attain the goal by diligence.75

Also:

Monks, physical form is impermanent. Whatever is impermanent is

dukkha; whatever is dukkha is nonself. Whatever is nonself should be

seen as it truly is with correct wisdom thus: ‘This is not mine, I am not

this, this is not my self.’91 [The same for feeling, perception, volitional

formations, and consciousness.]