Word Association (2024)

[chiangmaibruce]

Well all those doom-sayers have been proved to be right haven't they? Grim times now on the investment front and no end in sight at this stage.

But one day we will wake up and go outside and the sun will be shining and the tuk-tuks humming, and the wheels of the markets will be turning again. And like the first (albeit deformed) seedlings sprouting after a long nuclear winter, the idea of investing and investments will once again emerge as something exciting and appealing. Time then to cast around for advice and information to guide the important decisions that need to be made.

Fast-forwarding to that time:

For those of you who are familiar with Thailand, and with investing: What information would you hope to/expect to see in a book about investing in Thailand? Of the available information sources, where are the holes and the weaknesses?

For those of you new to Thailand - and quite possibly somewhat new to investing: What would you like to know to help you decide whether to invest in Thailand? What form that investment should take? How much you should invest? etc

Obviously just reading through this forum we can all see many of the more basic questions ... like the perennial "Can a foreigner buy shares?", "Can a foreigner buy property?", do I need a work permit to do X, etc. But what of the countless other issues?

In terms of messages about investing generally, well we have all read "don't invest more in Thailand than you are prepared to walk away from" and "never make yourself more valuable dead than alive". But again there are so many important and potentially more helpful general lessons out there.

No, this post is not an academic exercise or a troll. I've written the first draft of a book on this topic, with a publisher waiting on the final manuscript. The focus is on individual rather than corporate investors - and primarily those at the novice to intermediate level. The book stresses the need for undertaking proper due diligence of any proposed investment, and of not considering potential Thai investments in isolation from the individuals overall personal financial circumstances (ie. a financial planning perspective).

The next stage is a series of interviews with investors - some of whom are contributors to this forum - extracts from which will appear in the book. These are folks with track-records in investing in each of the main asset classes here, plus some general commentators like Dr Marc Faber.

Of course I (would like to) think I have already covered off most of the key issues. I have also identified many useful sources of further information which will all be listed in the book.

I would however greatly appreciate any thoughts from TV contributors with regards to form and content of the book. Your thoughts and your arguments over the past year or more have already been a tremendous source of ideas and perspectives. I have a great deal of respect for many of you, and via the positive suggestions I hope you will now post, I invite each of you to help make this book the very best information resource it can be.

With thanks and best regards

-CB

[pkrv]

Well all those doom-sayers have been proved to be right haven't they? Grim times now on the investment front and no end in sight at this stage.

But one day we will wake up and go outside and the sun will be shining and the tuk-tuks humming, and the wheels of the markets will be turning again. And like the first (albeit deformed) seedlings sprouting after a long nuclear winter, the idea of investing and investments will once again emerge as something exciting and appealing. Time then to cast around for advice and information to guide the important decisions that need to be made.

Fast-forwarding to that time:

For those of you who are familiar with Thailand, and with investing: What information would you hope to/expect to see in a book about investing in Thailand? Of the available information sources, where are the holes and the weaknesses?

For those of you new to Thailand - and quite possibly somewhat new to investing: What would you like to know to help you decide whether to invest in Thailand? What form that investment should take? How much you should invest? etc

Obviously just reading through this forum we can all see many of the more basic questions ... like the perennial "Can a foreigner buy shares?", "Can a foreigner buy property?", do I need a work permit to do X, etc. But what of the countless other issues?

In terms of messages about investing generally, well we have all read "don't invest more in Thailand than you are prepared to walk away from" and "never make yourself more valuable dead than alive". But again there are so many important and potentially more helpful general lessons out there.

No, this post is not an academic exercise or a troll. I've written the first draft of a book on this topic, with a publisher waiting on the final manuscript. The focus is on individual rather than corporate investors - and primarily those at the novice to intermediate level. The book stresses the need for undertaking proper due diligence of any proposed investment, and of not considering potential Thai investments in isolation from the individuals overall personal financial circumstances (ie. a financial planning perspective).

The next stage is a series of interviews with investors - some of whom are contributors to this forum - extracts from which will appear in the book. These are folks with track-records in investing in each of the main asset classes here, plus some general commentators like Dr Marc Faber.

Of course I (would like to) think I have already covered off most of the key issues. I have also identified many useful sources of further information which will all be listed in the book.

I would however greatly appreciate any thoughts from TV contributors with regards to form and content of the book. Your thoughts and your arguments over the past year or more have already been a tremendous source of ideas and perspectives. I have a great deal of respect for many of you, and via the positive suggestions I hope you will now post, I invite each of you to help make this book the very best information resource it can be.

With thanks and best regards

-CB

Hmm interesting thought process. My only nagging doubt is that by the time the book is published it would be out of date.

IMO you need to add in a few basics - opening a Thai bank account and how to go about it if resident/working/student or on a tourist visa. Advise internet banking (a basic necessity in today's age) is not actually available for some types of account.

I would recommend researching the condominium market as it is possible for Farangs to own freehold property here (which includes a % of all assets including the land) and condominium act under the 49% rule.

Informing people of what taxes applies to them would be of use.

How best to deal with foreign exchange basically explaining that the rates not charges are all important.

This kind of level headed down to earth stuff is actually quite important and not necessarily readily available in one consolidated 'product'.

I look forward to a free copy on publication ];-) PKRV

edit - ohh I would add in schools as well

Edited November 20, 2008 by pkrv

[chiangmaibruce]

Thanks PK

Yes, timeliness of info is an issue to some extent but not as much as you might first think. The majority of the book should remain relevant for some time. In terms of charts the historical trends remain useful but you will get a gap at the end (but with sources provided to get current stats). Some new sources of data/info will undoubtedly emerge (although not at any great rate in Thailand). I am also not making investor-specific recommendations e.g. which shares to buy, so that will not be an issue. There are just too many different personal circumstances to go there. The steps & processes of how to go about investing though are more universal. The nature of the various investment options is also well covered.

And yes, the general "getting organised" stuff is important and has been addressed. With issues like starting bank accounts, visas, and taxes you are constrained by both variations between individual investors and variations between the service providers (e.g. different banks and different accounts). It could get very wordy so I have had to draw a line and not go into enormous detail. Property laws are however discussed at length as these are more generally applicable to all foreign investors.

Oh, and I will take your final suggestion under advisement.

[chiangmaibruce]

Yeah, keep those ideas flooding in

OK, PKRV, as the first and thus far only contributor to this discussion you will have your free book. I will PM you for delivery details when copies are on hand. It would be greatly appreciated if you would then be kind enough to post a brief review in this forum at the appropriate time.

Cheers

- CB

[chiangmaibruce]

OK, well just to provide an ending to this story ... the book DID get written and has now been released ... anyone interested can find details at the address below:

http://www.silkwormbooks.com/catalog/info/...-guide-thailand

Cheers

CB

Edited January 7, 2010 by chiangmaibruce

[Naam]

If You Were Looking For A Book On Thai Investment, What would YOU want to know?

if i was really looking for that kind of book i would like to know whether old age dementia has already got a hold on me.

no offence meant CM-Bruce! that's just my very personal opinion.

[chiangmaibruce]

if i was really looking for that kind of book i would like to know whether old age dementia has already got a hold on me.

no offence meant CM-Bruce! that's just my very personal opinion.

And no offence taken Khun Naam. You've put your finger on one of the challenges of writing this particular book. Clearly the book couldn't be all things to all people when you have such a wide range of knowledge levels, backgrounds and interests, amongst potential punters here in LOS (which is clear enough just from following discussions here in Thaivisa).

Such a book will likely be pitched too high for some folks and too yet be too basic for others. I have however tried hard to make the Guide as relevant as possible, for as many people as possible. I look forward to receiving feedback from readers on this (and other) issue/s.

[Naam]

if i was really looking for that kind of book i would like to know whether old age dementia has already got a hold on me.

no offence meant CM-Bruce! that's just my very personal opinion.

And no offence taken Khun Naam. You've put your finger on one of the challenges of writing this particular book. Clearly the book couldn't be all things to all people when you have such a wide range of knowledge levels, backgrounds and interests, amongst potential punters here in LOS (which is clear enough just from following discussions here in Thaivisa).

Such a book will likely be pitched too high for some folks and too yet be too basic for others. I have however tried hard to make the Guide as relevant as possible, for as many people as possible. I look forward to receiving feedback from readers on this (and other) issue/s.

there seems to be some misunderstanding Khun CMB. i have spent quite some money in Thailand for the roof over my head and stopped counting after crossing THB 25 million. i think the money was well spent but i don't consider it an investment and besides the afore-mentioned substantial amount i wouldn't consider in my wildest dreams to "invest" a single penny in a country where my rights as a foreigner are equivalent to the rights of a thai born soi dog.

[sharecropper]

I think any book on Thailand investments should carry a massive disclaimer and also have at least one chapter comprehensively setting out the downsides and risks of investing here in whatever asset class or sector.

[chiangmaibruce]

there seems to be some misunderstanding Khun CMB. i have spent quite some money in Thailand for the roof over my head and stopped counting after crossing THB 25 million. i think the money was well spent but i don't consider it an investment <snip>

OK, I can see where you are coming from. I have just used a broader definition of "investment" in the book. Some might say you have invested in your personal well-being/happiness/whatever ... so an investment nonetheless, just not directed towards any anticipated financial return. Even so, there will likely be (for the average Joe at least) certain financial repercussions should such an 'investment' go bad.

Edited January 9, 2010 by chiangmaibruce

[sharecropper]

Some might say you have invested in your personal well-being/happiness/whatever ... so an investment nonetheless, just not directed towards any anticipated financial return

This is starting to sound more like a philosphical work than a financial one.

Aren't you confusing 'investing" in the sense of time and effort invested in something and the more strict application of the financial term "investment"?

Surely the definition of (a financial) investment must assume a view to making a financial profit.

Otherwise, just say I "invested $1m in stock and the company went bust. I then start touting myself as being a hugely successful investor.

You might say "er why. You just lost $1m";

to which, on your definition above I would be justified in replying:

"yeah, but I got well over $1m of happiness out of owning the investment whatever happened to it financially, so I have made a (personal happiness) profit".

Edited January 9, 2010 by sharecropper

[chiangmaibruce]

Aren't you confusing 'investing" in the sense of time and effort invested in something and the more strict application of the financial term "investment"?

Surely the definition of (a financial) investment must assume a view to making a financial profit.

<snip>

And I get your point too SC, but it's not the point I was trying to make in responding to Naam's comment. The point I was trying to make is that it matters not whether some particular significant expenditure or another is seen (by the person making it) as an 'investment' or <insert alternative term of your choice here>. If there is some subsequent problem or issue (of which you read of so many in Thaivisa) then their decision to commit those funds will likely have real financial repercussions for them, possibly even in terms of narrowing their future life choices.

As I said before, for people with buckets of money such outcomes may hardly generate a blip on the radar - and good luck to them. But for the average person saying "this is not an investment, I just want to buy house (comfort/security), buy business (hobby/past-time), etc etc" ... sounds a bit like a free pass to not bother with the sort of due diligence that really should be undertaken as a matter of course ... and particularly in Thailand.

Some perceived reason ... any perceived reason, NOT to do their homework is the last thing most farang spending big bucks in Thailand need. This lack of a careful and disciplined approach is a BIG factor behind many of the financial train-wrecks you read about here.

Edited January 10, 2010 by chiangmaibruce

[sharecropper]

Aren't you confusing 'investing" in the sense of time and effort invested in something and the more strict application of the financial term "investment"?

Surely the definition of (a financial) investment must assume a view to making a financial profit.

<snip>

And I get your point too SC, but it's not the point I was trying to make in responding to Naam's comment. The point I was trying to make is that it matters not whether some particular significant expenditure or another is seen (by the person making it) as an 'investment' or <insert alternative term of your choice here>. If there is some subsequent problem or issue (of which you read of so many in Thaivisa) then their decision to commit those funds will likely have real financial repercussions for them, possibly even in terms of narrowing their future life choices.

As I said before, for people with buckets of money such outcomes may hardly generate a blip on the radar - and good luck to them. But for the average person saying "this is not an investment, I just want to buy house (comfort/security), buy business (hobby/past-time), etc etc" ... sounds a bit like a free pass to not bother with the sort of due diligence that really should be undertaken as a matter of course ... and particularly in Thailand.

Some perceived reason ... any peceived reason, NOT to do their homework is the last thing most farang spending big bucks in Thailand need. This lack of a careful and disciplined approach is a BIG factor behind many of the financial train-wrecks you read about here.

Ok. Then I think what you may be saying is there is an objective test for whether something is an investment, whether or not the "investor" subjectively considers it to be an investment?

[SoftWater]

Bruce, where is this book available? Do they, for example, stock it in Asia books or Kinokuniya (Bangkok)?

A second question refers to something you said way up above that "basic issues have been addressed". I'm not sure if you meant in your book or elsewhere. But a basic issue I've been trying to find out by searching this forum and others, unsuccessfully, is

i. Once I have an internet-ready Thai bank account, what's the next step? How do I actually start investing my money? I am happy to spend the time "learning the trade" (i.e., what are the different investment paths - funds, stocks, bonds, etc) before jumping in, but everything I've looked at so far assumes that the 'novice investor' already knows the mechanics of how to actually make investments and is given expert advice on what to buy. But my issue is not learning what to buy (I can see plenty of resources for that), but how to buy (where is the real basic dummies info for this?) in Thailand.

I appreciate those of you who know the answer will find this a laughably naive question, but as you can no doubt tell from the fact that I'm asking it, this is my first step in the direction of investment, and I'm literally starting from absolute zero.

Any advice welcome, I'll take the insults as they come. Cheers

Edited July 25, 2010 by SoftWater

[SoftWater]

Looks like I answered my own question. Following a link to thaistocks.com above, I see he has a 'Thai Stock Market Course' for rank beginners like myself that looks like its going to cover just the sort of questions I need answering.

thai stock market course

The link might require being a member for external access, I'm not sure, but its free to sign up if so.

[chiangmaibruce]

Bruce, where is this book available? Do they, for example, stock it in Asia books or Kinokuniya (Bangkok)?

A number of the stores that stock "Your Investment Guide to Thailand" in Thailand are listed in the publisher's web site - it's also available online from a few sources ... just google on the title

I'll send you a PM with more details.

Edited July 25, 2010 by chiangmaibruce