Friends And Money

[mattias33]

i have met sooo many people of the OP's description on the 4 years i lived on KPG... it is part of the reason i left the island. some nice people there, some that are there legitimately doing their own thing, but far more there just mooching around, expecting other farangs (and even locals) to support them, and getting involved with the scumbag beach boys and staying way past their welcome and financial ability. DO NOT loan these people money unless it is to get them away and back home. most of them will just spend it on beer and drugs anyway and then be pissed off at you when you won't loan them more. i agree with whoever said if it is your real friend, don't be above giving them a place to sleep and food until they can get on their feet, but loaning money will only cause you grief in the end.

Thats a very good post girlx. I agree with everything you say.

I (with VERY limited experience of kpg) always though the island is two things:

1. Expats who are in 85 % of the cases overwintered hippies from the 60:s living "free spirit lifestyle"

2. Tourists who are 85 % of the cases "youth gone wild" that want to have a "free spirit holiday"

Your post kind of gives me the impression that my thoughts maybe arent all wrong. And you lived there for 4 years and moved away for the reasons you mention so i kind think your statements hold some water.

[5tash]

my friend an older woman, not too attrative, who leans towards being a free spirit hippie and has spent most of her life on the dole went to kpg and met a thai boy whom she has now fallen in love with. He's bled her for all her money spending it on who knows what besides women and booze until she is now broke. She came to me for a loan to pay her rent. When I suggest that she change her situation all she could say is, i love the freedom of kpg and i know he loves me. I did not give her the money, am I wrong?

She's asked to borrow money from you, how is she going to pay you back if she is only receiving dole money? If she isn't prepared to make the effort and make money herself (ie. go home and get a job), why should you lend her money? By not giving her the money, you did the right thing.

When she says she loves the freedom of Kpg, she'll love it even more soon, when she has no place to live!

[5tash]

Thats a very good post girlx. I agree with everything you say.

I (with VERY limited experience of kpg) always though the island is two things:

1. Expats who are in 85 % of the cases overwintered hippies from the 60:s living "free spirit lifestyle"

2. Tourists who are 85 % of the cases "youth gone wild" that want to have a "free spirit holiday"

Your post kind of gives me the impression that my thoughts maybe arent all wrong. And you lived there for 4 years and moved away for the reasons you mention so i kind think your statements hold some water.

[frankman]

VERY limited

[les Dennis]

You should buy her a copy of private dancer and encourage her to read it.

[maccaroni man]

You should buy her a copy of private dancer and encourage her to read it.

thats interesting but i'm sorry to say i have not heard of this book, what is it about?

[mattias33]

You could send her the link to this thread and make her read that. Should wake her up!

[PoorSucker]

You should buy her a copy of private dancer and encourage her to read it.

thats interesting but i'm sorry to say i have not heard of this book, what is it about?

Review on www.stickmanbangkok.com/Reader/reader1187.htm

[maccaroni man]

You should buy her a copy of private dancer and encourage her to read it.

thats interesting but i'm sorry to say i have not heard of this book, what is it about?

Review on stickmanbangkok

thanks i'll do the down laod it looks like an entertaining read.

[mattias33]

You should buy her a copy of private dancer and encourage her to read it.

thats interesting but i'm sorry to say i have not heard of this book, what is it about?

Review on stickmanbangkok

This was actually a very interesting link! And stickmans story is moviematerial, hahaha. Reading a book and turning out to know some of the caracters!

[les Dennis]

Grouch Marx once said, "don't lend people money, it gives them amnesia". And in my experience, he was spot on.

[Ocean11]

Grouch Marx once said, "don't lend people money, it gives them amnesia". And in my experience, he was spot on.

Just give her the money......what's the big deal ?

[les Dennis]

Well apparently you don't get amnesia if you are given money, thats the point.

Edited November 23, 2008 by les Dennis

[dominator]

Grouch Marx once said, "don't lend people money, it gives them amnesia". And in my experience, he was spot on.

Just give her the money......what's the big deal ?

As you're feeling so generous Ocean11, 10 mil would do nice thanks.

[victrola]

I am just amazed at how a woman who has been around the corner can be so foolish or is it the thai guys are that good?

Both. Humans are suckers for love, and yes, some Thais (male and female both) are very good at understanding that.

I wish expat women and men in Asia could have more honest discussions about their experiences. Really, we experience so many of the same things and I wish we would have more sympathy for one another.

[samuibeachcomber]

I am just amazed at how a woman who has been around the corner can be so foolish or is it the thai guys are that good?

Both. Humans are suckers for love, and yes, some Thais (male and female both) are very good at understanding that.

I wish expat women and men in Asia could have more honest discussions about their experiences. Really, we experience so many of the same things and I wish we would have more sympathy for one another.

most people are afraid to open up and discuss bad things that have happened to them emotionally and financially.The lady in question sounds like she's been on welfare a very long time and maybe now the money,for what ever reason, is running out but is loathed to leave her life in KPG,which is understandable.But its a downhill path from now on,the best thing to do would be to go to the British embassy,and they will probably repatriate her

[koheesti]

OP, I'm sure your friend can earn enough dosh herself and doesn't need you to give her free handouts. What was her job before back home? Maybe she could do something along those lines. Considering the situation she has gotten herself into I doubt she is looking to get a working permit. I could be wrong though. Maybe she can help out doing some behind the scenes work at an expat's bar or other business. If she doesn't have any specific job training that would be useful behind the scenes, maybe she could, well, offer special assistance to tourists who need help in various ways. Beggars can't be choosers, y'know. How old is she? Is she relatively attractive enough that toursits would be interested in spending time with her? Sorry, but many people are just that shallow. Does she have any physical limitations that would restrict her movement? Is she flexible enough to bend over and pick up suitcases or climb for a cross-island hiking tour? Does she have good stamina or have years of chillin' in paradise made her tire easily? If so, she could get back in shape quickly with some vigorous workout type exercises designed to build up a good sweat. This might be tough in the beginning but with the proper motivation and encouragement she could get back on her feet. As a friend, you could help her get to this point. Set up a schedule to go at it together and stick to it. The rewards in the end will be worth it for both of you. A true friend would be glad to help more than take the easy way out of handing over cash.

Edited November 24, 2008 by koheesti

[koheesti]

Sorry, I hadn't read your original post since it first came out. You did mention she is "an older woman, not too attrative, who leans towards being a free spirit hippie". That might limit her on what she can do for these tourists. Then again, different strokes for different folks and where's there's a will, there's a way.

[mattias33]

I like koohestis idea of "self-promotion", allthough considering op:s desciption of this lady "not too attractive, free spirit elderly woman" probably don´t fit any of the jobdescriptions you provide. I gues starting a club for the other elderly hippies could be one thing. Then again most of them are probably quite low on coin and would drink on credit anyway. .

Samuibeachbombers brit embassy idea is probably the closest to good ideas we can come up with in this case. Let her spend her last baht, call you, pick her up and take her to bangkok and let her crawl in for help at the embassy. They will send her home and probably some restrictions wil be there not to come back in some time before she sorted out her money problems.

[t.s]

my friend an older woman, not too attrative, who leans towards being a free spirit hippie and has spent most of her life on the dole went to kpg and met a thai boy whom she has now fallen in love with. He's bled her for all her money spending it on who knows what besides women and booze until she is now broke. She came to me for a loan to pay her rent. When I suggest that she change her situation all she could say is, i love the freedom of kpg and i know he loves me. I did not give her the money, am I wrong?

No your not wrong. Tell her to leave the island and him. Get a job and get back to the real world. Kpg is a party island for tourists. Its not a life to live in the longrun. Smoking weed and being free spirit is ok for holiday, not life. And living on borrowing money from friends? You give her the loan and the thaiman will spend it on women and booze.

If you want to help her, force her to leave.

i think that people living on glass islands nearby shouldnt throw stones.

As for the money, if she has spent her life on the dole i wouldn't lend her a cent.

[mattias33]

i think that people living on glass islands nearby shouldnt throw stones.

I have to assume that since you put this as an answer and quoted me, me living in samui, samui is one off the "glass islands nearby"? Wich are the other ones and what significates a "glass island"?

Curious

[t.s]

i think that people living on glass islands nearby shouldnt throw stones.

I have to assume that since you put this as an answer and quoted me, me living in samui, samui is one off the "glass islands nearby"? Wich are the other ones and what significates a "glass island"?

Curious

re your remark: "Kpg is a party island for tourists."

while this may be true, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones as samui is little better.

: : In English it implies that you shouldn't be over critical of someone since you, yourself, could be open to the same sort of criticsm. The saying is usually 'people who LIVE in......'.

: PEOPLE IN GLASS HOUSES SHOULDN'T THROW STONES - "Those who are vulnerable should not attack others. The proverb has been traced back to Geoffrey Chaucer's 'Troilus and Criseyde' (1385). George Herbert wrote in 1651: 'Whose house is of glass, must not throw stones at another.' This saying is first cited in the United States in 'William & Mary College Quarterly' (1710). Twenty-six later Benjamin Franklin wrote, 'Don't throw stones at your neighbors', if your own windows are glass.' 'To live in a glass house' is used as a figure of speech referring to vulnerability." From "Random House Dictionary of Popular Proverbs and Sayings" (1996) by Gregory Y. Titelman (Random House, New York, 1996).

Who that hath an hed of verre, Fro cast of stones war hym in the werre! (Chaucer, "Troilus & Criseyde," c1385)

Whose house is of glasse, must not throw stones at another. (G. Herbert, "Outlandish Proverbs," 1640)

Ay cousen, no body should thrown stones, whose house is made of glass. (C. Shadwell, "Sham Prince," 1720)

Thee shouldst not throw Stone, who hast a Head of Glass thyself. (J. Shebbeare, "Marriage Act," 1754)

He who lives in a glass house, says a Spanish proverb, should never begin throwing stones. (T. Paine in "Pennsylvania Packet," October 22, 1778)

Those who live in glass houses shouldn't stones. (Trollope, "Framley Parsonage," 1861)

----------

In other languages:

Quien tiene tejado de vidrio, no tire piedras al de su vecino. (Sp.)

Si tu as la tete de beurre, ne te fais pas boulanger. (Fr.)

Wer selbst in einem Glashause wohnt, darf andere nicht mit Steiner werfen. (Ger.)

Chi ha tegoli di vetro, non tiri sassi al vicino. (It.)

Quem tem telhados de vidrio, nao atira pedras aos do vizinho. (Port)

http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/2...ssages/855.html

Edited November 25, 2008 by t.s

[mattias33]

i think that people living on glass islands nearby shouldnt throw stones.

I have to assume that since you put this as an answer and quoted me, me living in samui, samui is one off the "glass islands nearby"? Wich are the other ones and what significates a "glass island"?

Curious

re your remark: "Kpg is a party island for tourists."

while this may be true, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones as samui is little better.

: : In English it implies that you shouldn't be over critical of someone since you, yourself, could be open to the same sort of criticsm. The saying is usually 'people who LIVE in......'.

: PEOPLE IN GLASS HOUSES SHOULDN'T THROW STONES - "Those who are vulnerable should not attack others. The proverb has been traced back to Geoffrey Chaucer's 'Troilus and Criseyde' (1385). George Herbert wrote in 1651: 'Whose house is of glass, must not throw stones at another.' This saying is first cited in the United States in 'William & Mary College Quarterly' (1710). Twenty-six later Benjamin Franklin wrote, 'Don't throw stones at your neighbors', if your own windows are glass.' 'To live in a glass house' is used as a figure of speech referring to vulnerability." From "Random House Dictionary of Popular Proverbs and Sayings" (1996) by Gregory Y. Titelman (Random House, New York, 1996).

Who that hath an hed of verre, Fro cast of stones war hym in the werre! (Chaucer, "Troilus & Criseyde," c1385)

Whose house is of glasse, must not throw stones at another. (G. Herbert, "Outlandish Proverbs," 1640)

Ay cousen, no body should thrown stones, whose house is made of glass. (C. Shadwell, "Sham Prince," 1720)

Thee shouldst not throw Stone, who hast a Head of Glass thyself. (J. Shebbeare, "Marriage Act," 1754)

He who lives in a glass house, says a Spanish proverb, should never begin throwing stones. (T. Paine in "Pennsylvania Packet," October 22, 1778)

Those who live in glass houses shouldn't stones. (Trollope, "Framley Parsonage," 1861)

----------

In other languages:

Quien tiene tejado de vidrio, no tire piedras al de su vecino. (Sp.)

Si tu as la tete de beurre, ne te fais pas boulanger. (Fr.)

Wer selbst in einem Glashause wohnt, darf andere nicht mit Steiner werfen. (Ger.)

Chi ha tegoli di vetro, non tiri sassi al vicino. (It.)

Quem tem telhados de vidrio, nao atira pedras aos do vizinho. (Port)

http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/2...ssages/855.html

Wow, your deep.

Ok back to topic.

[maccaroni man]

VERY limited

To say that the thread is limited is IMO to be short sighted. The true crust of the thread is not only about a friend wanting money but more so the attitude of those who travel to Thailand without the finances to sustain themselves. My friend’s situation is simply the microcosm of the macrocosms.

In my limited time in Thailand I have seen these types run many kinds of shell games on various systems i.e. junkies running scams at hospitals for drugs to feed their habits, bogus theft and illness to defraud travelers insurance, manufactured disability claims, employed people receiving unemployment benefits, and the rouse of mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters and friends just so they can stay in Thailand a bit longer.

From a sociological stand point over the last decade I have observed most of this entitlement attitude coming from Europeans where social programs are part of the political environment; Scandinavians, Netherlanders, Englishmen and a few Germans. So the real issue is how this attitude of entitlement became systemic and why do these types of people find it acceptable to sponge off others? Is this a metamorphous of socialist societies? What is the attraction and support network of places like kpg that makes these people feel at home and validated?

In developing countries like Thailand where hunters and gatherers are still found, is she and her type just a new form of prey?

One person posted photos of the unsavory looking people visiting kpg and girlx wrote a heart felt impression of the users and abuser on kpg, others condemned abusing the dole and still there were those who recommended providing a conditional capital infusion while praising the socialist ideology.

Poor sucker posted link to an article written by stickman about the Private Dancer. I must confess that today I can see myself being described in Stickman’s essay; I have become tainted and a pessimist where victims are concerned. Over the years I have provided food and shelter to “friends” who were in need and it has always ended badly because I required an honest effort put forth by them to improve their situation. Whatever your position, the thread is far from limited, it can be insightful as to how the responsible view their financial responsibilities to their friends and even more why the irresponsible believe they are entitled. Or is she really a form of predator disguised as a victim?

[mattias33]

From a sociological stand point over the last decade I have observed most of this entitlement attitude coming from Europeans where social programs are part of the political environment; Scandinavians, Netherlanders, Englishmen and a few Germans. So the real issue is how this attitude of entitlement became systemic and why do these types of people find it acceptable to sponge off others? Is this a metamorphous of socialist societies? What is the attraction and support network of places like kpg that makes these people feel at home and validated?

All i can comment on this is that in my own scandinavian country, this system has been so used over the years that they now started to tighten up social security benefits even for the ones that actually qualify for it. I myself is infact one of these victims, where i´ve been a VERY good taxpayer for 17 years and now due to medical issues are not able to do my former profession. I am legally qualified for some soc.sec founds wich are talking so far 6 mos and will take possible even 6 more to recieve due to investigations. Am i right to get it or not. Because so many that shouldnt have these founds, claim them and lived as doped out hippies in koh pagnan (and elsewhere), now people that needs it dont get it. They where forced to thighten up the rules so the system gets harder to use. Result of it i saw when i recently visited Sweden. People with diagnosed cancer and estimated 6 months left to live, dont qualify for money and are on waitinglists, so that they cant pay their rent. When i see these fully functional scandinavians sitting over here and enjoying life with the taxmoney i paid, i want to throw up. .

So, you´re a hippie- free spirit- cool- relaxed lifestyle - woman or man in kpg. You dont have money. Well, heres an idea: Get a job!

[Pilchard]

From a sociological stand point over the last decade I have observed most of this entitlement attitude coming from Europeans where social programs are part of the political environment; Scandinavians, Netherlanders, Englishmen and a few Germans. So the real issue is how this attitude of entitlement became systemic and why do these types of people find it acceptable to sponge off others? Is this a metamorphous of socialist societies? What is the attraction and support network of places like kpg that makes these people feel at home and validated?

All i can comment on this is that in my own scandinavian country, this system has been so used over the years that they now started to tighten up social security benefits even for the ones that actually qualify for it. I myself is infact one of these victims, where i´ve been a VERY good taxpayer for 17 years and now due to medical issues are not able to do my former profession. I am legally qualified for some soc.sec founds wich are talking so far 6 mos and will take possible even 6 more to recieve due to investigations. Am i right to get it or not. Because so many that shouldnt have these founds, claim them and lived as doped out hippies in koh pagnan (and elsewhere), now people that needs it dont get it. They where forced to thighten up the rules so the system gets harder to use. Result of it i saw when i recently visited Sweden. People with diagnosed cancer and estimated 6 months left to live, dont qualify for money and are on waitinglists, so that they cant pay their rent. When i see these fully functional scandinavians sitting over here and enjoying life with the taxmoney i paid, i want to throw up. .

So, you´re a hippie- free spirit- cool- relaxed lifestyle - woman or man in kpg. You dont have money. Well, heres an idea: Get a job!

17 years of taxes probably just about paid for your education and health care, if you'd paid for 50 years you might have a point.

but isn't this you

Machine engineering / robot programming for 12 years. Swore 2,5 years ago i would never go back, but i did a short comeback for 4 months this summer. Terrible! bah.gif

Over here i tend to do pretty much nothing allthough i sometimes involve myself in our small electric company in Bangkok. It´s owned by me, runned by my wife, and the actuall work done by staff, hahaha. I do mostly the "representation". I´m very good at organizing good nights out for the customers. laugh.gif . Other than that small exports of things to Sweden and sold in our shop there. However the good weather over here makes me too lazy, i should work more but just can´t do it. The fact that i am now without a workpermit gives me a good reason to stay out of things when my wife ask for help. "Sorry, i´m not aloud", laugh.gif .

You have a shop in Sweden and a business in Bangkok , you don't sound unable to work or in need of your governments social security to me.

Ooop ! nearly forgot the smiley

[mattias33]

Ok, now, this thread is not about me but i feel i should give a short answer to your smart post.

No, 17 years of taxpaying (last 12 as hightly paid engineer, with 52% incometax) did pay for alot more than my education. Espcially since most of that was paid by my employeer and not the government.

Yes i have a shop in Sweden and a buisness in Bangkok, i am not unable to work, but i have a doctors statement that i should not do my former work. I tryied that this summer but didnt come true, my hip is done. So i do qualify for some soc.sec founds. Learning a new job and the money lost when i am now trying a medicine for 6 months before operation. I have a shop in Sweden and a buisness in Thailand and support myself at this point, but there is still a money loss for me since i cant do the 5 months / year engineering i hoped to do.Since that is due to medical reasons i do qualify legally. Hope this is clearer for you now?

[Pilchard]

Ok, now, this thread is not about me but i feel i should give a short answer to your smart post.

No, 17 years of taxpaying (last 12 as hightly paid engineer, with 52% incometax) did pay for alot more than my education. Espcially since most of that was paid by my employeer and not the government.

Yes i have a shop in Sweden and a buisness in Bangkok, i am not unable to work, but i have a doctors statement that i should not do my former work. I tryied that this summer but didnt come true, my hip is done. So i do qualify for some soc.sec founds. Learning a new job and the money lost when i am now trying a medicine for 6 months before operation. I have a shop in Sweden and a buisness in Thailand and support myself at this point, but there is still a money loss for me since i cant do the 5 months / year engineering i hoped to do.Since that is due to medical reasons i do qualify legally. Hope this is clearer for you now?

Thanks for the clarification: you're on medical social security in your own country while living and working here.Glad we got that sorted

Back to the OP topic

Any more news of the Lady in question ?

[mattias33]

Ok, now, this thread is not about me but i feel i should give a short answer to your smart post.

No, 17 years of taxpaying (last 12 as hightly paid engineer, with 52% incometax) did pay for alot more than my education. Espcially since most of that was paid by my employeer and not the government.

Yes i have a shop in Sweden and a buisness in Bangkok, i am not unable to work, but i have a doctors statement that i should not do my former work. I tryied that this summer but didnt come true, my hip is done. So i do qualify for some soc.sec founds. Learning a new job and the money lost when i am now trying a medicine for 6 months before operation. I have a shop in Sweden and a buisness in Thailand and support myself at this point, but there is still a money loss for me since i cant do the 5 months / year engineering i hoped to do.Since that is due to medical reasons i do qualify legally. Hope this is clearer for you now?

Thanks for the clarification: you're on medical social security in your own country while living and working here.Glad we got that sorted

Back to the OP topic

Any more news of the Lady in question ?

I´m afraid we did not fully clarify it. I am not on medical social sec yet, but ive applied for the money loss. I manage to come up with most off the money on my own buisness but still not fully to my engineer salery. Thats how i legally qualify for the diff. Since so many missused the system my LEGAL application is taking time. Also my LEGAL childsupport is taking time since all this face applications are in the way. So far not a penny FROM the government but a shitload TOO the government so you can stop bothering me.

[maccaroni man]

Any more news of the Lady in question ?

she found a boy friend