How They Will Con You!

[trowp]

(Please note: I do not want to be insulting to Thai people, who I think are wonderful. I am not putting everyone in the same basket. However, I am opening this thread in order for people to be warned about some of the most common traps farang oh so often fall into. When I am referring to "them", I am talking about the kind of boys I try to warn you about.)

I have been living in Bangkok for four months and will be leaving by the end of december. Being young and very inexperienced when I first arrived here, I fell into a trap with a Thai boy. I have suffered a great deal with my "ex-boyfriend" and am now scared of going on the street because of multiple threats. His "friends", some of them mob guys, will and have done anything for money...

I do not want anybody to end up in the same situation. That's why I want to open a listing of the most common lies, tricks and traps. Add your own personal experience to the thread and help newcomers enjoying their stay in this wonderful country we live in and finding a boy who will be after something else than the size of their wallet.

1. Probably the most important advice. Do not think that you are too clever to believe their lies. Thousands of people before you believed that... they were wrong! Believe me, they can be extraordinary liars.

2. When trying to start the relationship, they will often pretend they have money. They will buy you drinks, invite you for dinner, pay for the taxi, etc...This is an investment! A popular misconception is that Thai people don't think about tomorrow. Building their spiderweb takes time. At first you might think "Why would he be after my money? He knows I am leaving soon and never asked me for anything." My answer to that: wait and see.

3. If going to DJ Station, be aware that about 80% of the boys on the second floor are boyfriends for hire.

4. There are many wealthy Thai people in Bangkok. However, don't forget that the nationwide average income is THB 6000-8000/month. If a boy tells you he works in a clothing store and owns a car, a fancy phone or any other expensive things, start asking yourself questions. There is most probably one or more farang sending money every month.

5. Giving your key to someone, be it only for a day or for going grocery shopping for you when you are away is very risky. They will not steal from you because they want to keep you (this is more likely to happen during a one-night-stand), but they might not want to leave anymore. You will end up with the boy staying at your place, pretending it is only for one week or so. Believe me, once they moved in, they have no intention of leaving and it will be extremely hard to kick him out!

6. You will only realize what you have put yourself into when it is too late. Talk to friends and/or relatives and ask them for their opinion.

7. The police will not help you with interpersonal problems. Be aware that Bangkok nightlife is great, but a very dark place. Calling the police might get you into more trouble than them.

Ok...so much with what I have to say now. Please add your own advices and comments!

[Ijustwannateach]

I ran some threads of a similar ilk a few years ago for the benefit of newbies, expats, and those living in denial, but they were not well received either by their target audience or by those who no longer needed such advice. As a general rule of thumb, if you meet someone within 1km of Silom, it's probably more trouble than it's worth- that's all I'll say.

[PeaceBlondie]

Indeed, I had not finished the first paragraph of the OP before I thought of IJWT's similar warnings, and how they were roundly denied or derided.

Personally, I have managed to escape the worst of such relationships. Maybe that's because I have been taking IJWT's advice since I first moved to Thailand.

As always, no discussions of barboys. But there are other ways to refer to opportunist boys who want your money (OPWWUM).

[Scott]

I thing IJWT is wrong. Some of my best friends are from Silom, and I would have more of them if I had the money!

Actually, negotiating the 'love' scene in Thailand is a little difficult. I've been with the same, mostly wonderful, person for 20 plus years. He's a saint; I am not. In this case, he's the one who got the raw end of the deal!

Relationships are built over a long time and with a full understanding. Lust is built on something a lot more instanteous.

People who have had successful relationships in their own countries, will likely be able to find success here as well. Those who come here because of lack of success at home, will have problems here. It's a generalization, but probably true quite a bit of the time.

[Ijustwannateach]

^I'm afraid that your mention of money in regard to Silom only demonstrates my point; I'm not sure where your talk of 'successful' relationships comes from in that context.

Ah, never mind. You can lead a horse to water, etc... As I previously implied, good advice is generally thankless here. That's my two cents for the year.

"S"

[twschw]

It is nearly impossible for a newbie to Thailand to not be taken advantage of. It is so very different to back home where ever that may be. The key is to learn from your mistakes and move on. As the old adage goes "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me".

[onni4me]

As the old adage goes "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me".

I think most of us have met these con artists once or twice. I had this discussion with an experienced English guy on Pattaya when I was there the first time ever. I complained about my experience and the abuse that was rampant. However, I never really met really bad people. Maybe I was lucky. Sure there were threats and all sort of BS but it really never came to anything and I still am a friend of my first encounter in Thailand. Now we really are like old friends, he tells me about his happenings and I tell about my life (which actually nowadays is happy all in all).

This English guy I mentioned had been coming over for 16 years and later I met him telling me that his bf for 5 years had left him for a German guy. I mean we are not talking about youngsters here. The bf was well above 30 and this guy was late 50s. So it seems to happen even one thinks its for real. I have this idea that the day money runs out is the day when honey stops floating - that if you are not having a very good family around. I wouldn't like to test it, though.

I've been around 4 years now and can actually see many of the reasons why so many end up having problems. I visit tourist destinations regularly and have sort of lost all interest of these people hanging around. If Thais are not considering them as a good option for LTRs, why should we?

[Navalator]

Scott has this issue nailed!

[Scott]

IJWTT: Sorry, I was being facetious! I have always liked the Silom area, but by and large it is full of of the wrong kind of people for relationships. There are some nice guys who go there with friends, but they are a little shy and you generally won't meet them. I seldom get down in that area anymore, but when I go I bring a group of friends with or we meet there. Basically, it's a meat market and the cheap cuts can cost a lot!

[Ijustwannateach]

Whew, you had me scared there for a moment, Scott- I always thought you were pretty level-headed, but your previous post did have me fooled!!!

[MeetJohnDoe]

Commercial is better..."just don't let the door hit your cute little rear on the way out"...nuff said

[scorecard]

My comments on the original post:

1. It seems to me from your post that you expect that the whole world operates (or should operate) on the 'process' that you know. This is highly disrespectful, and I hope you learn that everybody needs to recognize that 'the way it works' is different in diferent cultures, and respect this fact.

2. You mention about giving keys to first night stands. I suggest nobody in their right mind would do this in any country / culture. Why do you single out Thais for this comment?

3. You might like to research posts on other webboards e.g. cruisingforsex.com (the Thailand forum) to see some of the many posts over the years about many many gay farang who have cheated and given a hard time to Thai men.

In other words, don't be so quick to be judgemental.

[Paagai]

I have been living in Bangkok for four months and will be leaving by the end of december. Being young and very inexperienced when I first arrived here, I fell into a trap with a Thai boy. I have suffered a great deal with my "ex-boyfriend" and am now scared of going on the street because of multiple threats. His "friends", some of them mob guys, will and have done anything for money...

Of course, a favourite Thai Boy lie is that they have friends in the Police, Gangster friends etc. His threats are probably quite empty.

[scorecard]

Quote...Of course, a favourite Thai Boy lie is that they have friends in the Police, Gangster friends etc. His threats are probably quite empty. Unquote.

This comment is very unfair. People do things like this in 99% of the countries in the world. Many cities in the USA, and many other countries, are full of gangsters and its' unsafe to downright suicide to be on the streets after dark. Comments which sound like Thais are the only ones who do things like this are totally unfair.

How many gay farang have had unhappy relationships which other farang, or even had relationships with other farang which have caused emotional distress, even emotional scars? I suggest the track record for farang/farang realtionships is no better than farang/Thai relationships.

I am farang, I've lived here well over 20 years. Thailand is far from utopia (which of course doesn't exist), but the positives far outway the negatives.

[PeaceBlondie]

I had three Asian boyfriends in Houston. One, a Vietnamese, was a stealth money boy, spoilt but cute. Being Asian made no difference as to his wiles. I agree many Thais have been taken advantage of by farang men here. Especially by the farang dying penniless!

[Paagai]

Quote...Of course, a favourite Thai Boy lie is that they have friends in the Police, Gangster friends etc. His threats are probably quite empty. Unquote.

This comment is very unfair. People do things like this in 99% of the countries in the world. Many cities in the USA, and many other countries, are full of gangsters and its' unsafe to downright suicide to be on the streets after dark. Comments which sound like Thais are the only ones who do things like this are totally unfair.

How many gay farang have had unhappy relationships which other farang, or even had relationships with other farang which have caused emotional distress, even emotional scars? I suggest the track record for farang/farang realtionships is no better than farang/Thai relationships.

I am farang, I've lived here well over 20 years. Thailand is far from utopia (which of course doesn't exist), but the positives far outway the negatives.

I think you're missing my point. "99% of the coutries in the world" (OK 99% is a little high but maybe 70%) don't have a totally dysfunctional police infrastructure who's prime role is generating revenue in exactly the same way as the mob. And Thailand is quite unique in the percentage of young guys who see Farangs as their principle source of revenue. Put these together and I think you know what you've got - I won't elaborate on this forum........

You hear the comment about "Police friends" quite often in Thailand. It just doesn't have the same connotations as in most more developed societies. But it depends who's making it: If it comes from a hi-so money type, or local gangster who appears to be above the law, it's time to be scared, very scared. But when its a low level hustler, the probability is his "police friend" is his uncle's 2nd cousin who spends his afternoon's directing traffic. Asking the guy if his "Police Friends" have given him a pee test recently is usually enough to change the subject

I witnessed an amusing example recently, when a local bar owner (Str8 bar in CNX) who was always bragging about his "police friends" ended up in jail for not paying a fine which he only received because of bragging to other police about his "police Friends". It took 24 hours for him to scrape together the meagre 3k Baht needed for his release, with his "police friends" nowhere to be seen The loss of face was completed a few days later when his "police friends" turned up at the bar and slapped him round the face in full view of a large number of people for embrassing them.

Maybe in your 20 years in Thailand you've only met nice young gentlemen, or more probably I only know the wrong crowd of bad boys . But based on those I've met, I don't see my comments were at all unfair, and the set of circumstances the OP describes are very much an experience only to be found in "amazing Thailand". I think your comparison with Farang/Farang relationships, is irrelevant in this case as such relationships are not usually based on the circumstances the OP described where one party has a clear ulterior motive which ain't love.

I too think the positives of living here far outweigh the negatives. My message to the OP is just ignore these kinda idiots and don't let them get to you. You are only an easy target because they "think" you are scared of them.

I had three Asian boyfriends in Houston. One, a Vietnamese, was a stealth money boy, spoilt but cute. Being Asian made no difference as to his wiles. I agree many Thais have been taken advantage of by farang men here. Especially by the farang dying penniless!

That's funny, the only guy who's ever really tried to rob me like that was a Vietnamese guy I met in Dallas - wonder if its the same guy?

Anyway, if I don't die penniless having had all my money steathily diverted to building houses and buying buffalo in the Shan state I'll be very disappointed

[onni4me]

I had three Asian boyfriends in Houston. One, a Vietnamese, was a stealth money boy, spoilt but cute. Being Asian made no difference as to his wiles. I agree many Thais have been taken advantage of by farang men here. Especially by the farang dying penniless!

That's funny, the only guy who's ever really tried to rob me like that was a Vietnamese guy I met in Dallas - wonder if its the same guy?

Anyway, if I don't die penniless having had all my money steathily diverted to building houses and buying buffalo in the Shan state I'll be very disappointed

My first real gay relationship was with white guy. We studied together at the university. It took 2 years to realize that he was a cheat to the max. One nice day, after loaning money from me, he took off to Prague to live with a woman. As this happened, I was devastated. It took years to get over it. And can you imagine...when he was through with his GF in Prague, he had the cheek to come to ask whether we could be together again !!!

It is really no question of Thais or Asians or anyone. It is the personality.

[PeaceBlondie]

I had three Asian boyfriends in Houston. One, a Vietnamese, was a stealth money boy, spoilt but cute. Being Asian made no difference as to his wiles. I agree many Thais have been taken advantage of by farang men here. Especially by the farang dying penniless!

That's funny, the only guy who's ever really tried to rob me like that was a Vietnamese guy I met in Dallas - wonder if its the same guy?

Anyway, if I don't die penniless having had all my money steathily diverted to building houses and buying buffalo in the Shan state I'll be very disappointed

If we ever bump into each other here and admit who we are, I can describe my stealth Vietnamese BF from Houston and Toronto quite precisely.

I may have built a Tai-Yai house in Mae Hong Son by now...

[scorecard]

First you want to make derogatory and unbalance statements about Thai men, then you want to support your claims with a comment about how disfunctional the police are. Which is it??

[peekint]

Relationships are built over a long time and with a full understanding. Lust is built on something a lot more instanteous.

People who have had successful relationships in their own countries, will likely be able to find success here as well. Those who come here because of lack of success at home, will have problems here. It's a generalization, but probably true quite a bit of the time.

Hi Scott,

Wow, to have someone "nail" this topic within the first few posts is very impressive. You've hit it right on the head.

For some reason, when some Westerners transplant themselves into a different culture, and have trouble getting on, they externalize the blame.

Be real expat - no one brought you here under duress. No one promised you that everyone here would play by rules you wished the world would follow. It's your own responsibility to find your way, learn the culture - its joys, its sorrows, its benefits, its traps. Geez, how many expats don't even learn the local language?

Did you take comfort back home that if you were bamboozled you could ring up the coppers? Did it make you less likely to be bamboozled in love or money?

Like Scarlet O'Hara, are you reliant on the "kindness of strangers"? It very often comes, but you should be grateful for that kindness, not incensed when it is not there.

OP - This thread is useful in the sense of identifying common "scams" for the knowledge of newcomers who are taking responsibility, finding their way. For those posters who are using this thread to blast a particular culture or way of life, it just shows them up as petulant, petty, and naive.

[twschw]

Blanche DuBois: Whoever you are, I have always depended on the kindness of strangers.

[peekint]

Blanche DuBois: Whoever you are, I have always depended on the kindness of strangers.

Uh-oh, I lose my Gay membership card for the misattribution. Thank you TWSCHW!

(And apologies to Tennessee Williams!)

Edited December 3, 2008 by peekint

[scorecard]

You wrote "Maybe in your 20 years in Thailand you've only met nice young gentlemen, or more probably I only know the wrong crowd of bad boys . But based on those I've met, I don't see my comments were at all unfair, and the set of circumstances the OP describes are very much an experience only to be found in "amazing Thailand". I think your comparison with Farang/Farang relationships, is irrelevant in this case as such relationships are not usually based on the circumstances the OP described where one party has a clear ulterior motive which ain't love."

Let me share some thoughts about ".....where one party has a clear ulterior motive which ain't love."

You might like to know that marriage (which is a realtionship) in Thailand is based on finding a strong support mechanism for yourself and your immediate family, and at the same time trying to raise your status level, and that of your family.

In fact, put it the other way round, marriage is mostly NOT based on love.

Get to know a few Thais and you will find many many stories of men and women who are pressured (could be by what they know as social norms, or direct pressure from family) into NOT marrying someone they really like or perhaps even are in love with, because the union would not be a good support mechanism or is not the social status the parents want. And by the way, all of the above is strong across all of Thailand, not just so called hi-so Thais in Bangkok.

I know a Thai man who is the national sales manager of a very large multi-national personal care products company. He doesn't have a big office because he continuously travels all of Thailand mostly by car with driver, and his car is set up with a lot of hi-tech stuff: high end phone services, computer, printing equipment etc.

He met a very nice young lady who was a clerical worker. Both parents demanded they stop the relationship. His parents because the girl was not a university graduate and her faimily had no status. The girls parents objected because her boyfriend did not have a big office, which they could show (in photos) to other people to display status. They parted.

Another example is the hundreds of Thai women who have met farang men and got marrried, in many cases not because of love, but because of the access to much better support, better house, a car, perhaps better education for the children. They readily accept the situation because it's the system/process they know as 'normal'.

As a foreigner all of the above sounds strange and you may think i'm talking about rare examples. I'm not, all of the above is 'how it works' in Thai culture / Thai society at large.

Gay people in Thailand follow the same 'process'. In fact 99% of the people you meet aren't even aware that it works differently in typical western countries /cultures. They see an oppotunity for a support mechanism.

Another related point, many many Thais believe that all western people are rich and have unlimited funds. I've tried many times to carefully explain that this is not true, and many times i've given up because after trying to explain you get a comment something like 'I don't believe you'. What does all this mean? Many Thais would be thinking 'but for you it's only small money, why are you worried about the money?'

Another relevant point, as Thais grow up they learn that's it good to try to get yourself attached to a powerful person.

[kingwillly]

erm insert thai girls into thai boys and this whole thread does not change a bit,

[scorecard]

Just thought of another item to share. You can find many Thai/Thai gay realtionships which have the same structure which I explained above. Two examples I'm close to:

1. One Thai partner is from a very wealthy Thai family in the construction business. His long-term Thai boyfriend is a senior Thai cabin atttendant. The cabin attendant receives a 'salary' every month. from his wealthy boyfriend.I don't know how much but I would guess around 30,000Baht per month.

2. One Thai partner is the owner of a very successful and large marriage photography service, and has become quite well off financially. His long-term Thai boyfriend is one of the senior photographers. Again, the photographer receives a substantial 'salary' from his well off partner. My guess would be around 25,000Baht per month.

[sunreader]

Isn't this just like straight guys trying to have relationships with bar girls?

The pro's and cons are exactly the same.

Some would say a bar girl/boy is the very last person you wuld want to get involved with for anything other than short time?

[peekint]

Just thought of another item to share. You can find many Thai/Thai gay realtionships which have the same structure which I explained above. Two examples I'm close to:

1. One Thai partner is from a very wealthy Thai family in the construction business. His long-term Thai boyfriend is a senior Thai cabin atttendant. The cabin attendant receives a 'salary' every month. from his wealthy boyfriend.I don't know how much but I would guess around 30,000Baht per month.

2. One Thai partner is the owner of a very successful and large marriage photography service, and has become quite well off financially. His long-term Thai boyfriend is one of the senior photographers. Again, the photographer receives a substantial 'salary' from his well off partner. My guess would be around 25,000Baht per month.

I have a hard time understanding all the outrage and incense over unequal economics in the various relationships described in this post and others.

How is any of this different than the traditional "Ozzie and Harriet" family where the man works to support his family and the wife stays home to tend the house, the kids, the church group, the bridge club, etc.?

I would think a disparity of economic situations was the norm in most relationships until quite recently, when the economy in many first world countries has made it near impossible to survive with only one salaried income in the family.

Nobody ever called Harriet a social climber, money girl or opportunist because she married Ozzie and then didn't work (but still had a dam_n beautiful string of pearls to wear while sweeping the house). And, if I recall, Ozzie's ENTIRE salary went to Harriet and she gave HIM a weekly allowance!

Edited December 3, 2008 by peekint

[scorecard]

Just thought of another item to share. You can find many Thai/Thai gay realtionships which have the same structure which I explained above. Two examples I'm close to:

1. One Thai partner is from a very wealthy Thai family in the construction business. His long-term Thai boyfriend is a senior Thai cabin atttendant. The cabin attendant receives a 'salary' every month. from his wealthy boyfriend.I don't know how much but I would guess around 30,000Baht per month.

2. One Thai partner is the owner of a very successful and large marriage photography service, and has become quite well off financially. His long-term Thai boyfriend is one of the senior photographers. Again, the photographer receives a substantial 'salary' from his well off partner. My guess would be around 25,000Baht per month.

I have a hard time understanding all the outrage and incense over unequal economics in the various relationships described in this post and others.

How is any of this different than the traditional "Ozzie and Harriet" family where the man works to support his family and the wife stays home to tend the house, the kids, the church group, the bridge club, etc.?

I would think a disparity of economic situations was the norm in most relationships until quite recently, when the economy in many first world countries has made it near impossible to survive with only one salaried income in the family.

Nobody ever called Harriet a social climber, money girl or opportunist because she married Ozzie and then didn't work (but still had a dam_n beautiful string of pearls to wear while sweeping the house). And, if I recall, Ozzie's ENTIRE salary went to Harriet and she gave HIM a weekly allowance!

Dear Peekint,

I wasn't suggesting there was anything wrong in the examples i gave. I was just giving examples to support my suggestion that this is normal in Thailand.

And I agree with your analogy of Ozzie and Harriet. SPOT ON!

[PeaceBlondie]

Isn't this just like straight guys trying to have relationships with bar girls?

The pro's and cons are exactly the same.

Some would say a bar girl/boy is the very last person you wuld want to get involved with for anything other than short time?

sunreader, welcome to ThaiVisa and to the Gay forum. We do not discuss bargirls and bargoys on any of these forums, so you are violating the rules. And to answer your question, no - it is not the same. Harriet Nelson was a singer in Ozzie's band, not a bargirl, but her long-haired, blonde, twin grandsons were even more stunning than her crewcut sons, and none of them were barboys.

[Ijustwannateach]

It's not at all strange that partnerships among economically imbalanced couples are facilitated in the way recounted on this thread- especially if the couple entertain together and the restaurants, etc. are beyond the means of the actual income of one of the partners. However, there's a big difference between two working individuals with real lives in a ltr and one receiving extra money from someone who is basically a spouse, and dealing with chronically unemployed or underemployed types whose main economic activity is seeking partners rich and/or gullible enough to milk money from using lies and deception (the blatantly commercial types are honest by comparison). But I doan' know nuttin'.

"S"