4 Grenades Explode Near Thailand's Anti-government Tv Station

[werbs]

I don't have a degree and I do not have outstanding English skills either.

However it doesn't take a higher level of education to understand that any vote won by way of votes being bought is not democratic. Or does it take some sort of profound understanding that I don't possess?

Then let the law deal with it and not resort to mob rule, it's not rocket science is it mate?

Now as for vote buying, thats what politics is all about although most governments are sensible. So as an example I want the votes of the poor so I promise tax cuts, I want the votes of the civil servants so I propose wage increases for them.

simple really

Edited November 24, 2008 by werbs

[JoeInSurin]

So to begin...this Government is NOT democratic elected.....

They are already found guilty of massive vote buying, they just wait to get dissolved (If they have been found guilty of vote buying and are waiting to be dissolved then the system is working. Why does PAD think they need to get involved?).They come from an dissolved party and they prepared already a new party for their future. (Is this against the law?)

Their MPs frequently fly or phone to a criminal as they don't know what to do.

And you think that is OK? (My opinion does not matter. If they want to do that it is not breaking any laws.)

If you can't figure out that a government which came into power due to vote buying is wrong, than your law degree was a waste of time.

If they have been found guilty of vote buying and are waiting to be dissolved why does this gives the PAD the right to break many laws?

[Jai Dee]

Metro Pol Commander confident protest (would not erupt) into violence

The Metropolitan Police Bureau Commissioner has voiced confidence that the protest situation surrounding the Parliament today (November 24) would not erupt in violence, affirming that police would proceed with negotiation.

Metropolitan Police Bureau Commissioner Pol. Lt. Col. Suchart Muankaew (สุชาติ เหมือนแก้ว) expressed his belief that the anti-government People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) gathering at the Parliament would resolve itself without violence. He stated that day time gatherings were relatively easier to contain, assuring that police would adopt negotiation as a main tactic for dealing with the PAD.

Pol. Lt. Col. Suchart stated however that if demonstrators began to vandalize public property, water would be used to disperse them. He affirmed that no tear gas would be used to deal with protesters, while noting his concern over third parties who may try to incite chaos. Nonetheless, the commander placed his confidence in the working relationship between police and the military.

Source: National News Bureau of Thailand - 24 November 2008

[jitagon]

I fear a civil war between north and south. The battleground will be Bangkok. This is s Buddhist country. How can all this happen? It's so sad.

I don't think someone from the North will fight unless paid.

I don't think so many yellow would turn up unless paid too.

no they are not, I sit alone in the office as all my staff is there....they don't receive 1 Satang, a lot of their friends and relatives from the south came, all without receiving money. All tell they are ready to die for the Monarchy.

Oh I gave up a long time ago trying get these numbskulls to accept the fact the PAD attendees are not paid in the way Taksin's rent a mob are (well, doesn't take much of a leap of the imagination to have realised that Taksin, having found it really was quite easy to buy power, continued along that path by attempting to buy his way back in, does it?).

And if anyone cares to educate themselves, take a look at the PAD stage and during each and every day you will see lists of donations from as little as 200 baht up to and over tens of thousands, being announced. Does anyone really think the Thais would be willing to fund bribes to attend from their own pockets? Seriously?

And by the by, spouse, with enough baht for the fare/board, attempted to board bus to Bangkok yesterday afternoon to attend today's rally to find every bus booked solid, and many people at the bus station were unable to get up to Bangkok also. So bus company, along with some members on this forum, seriously underestimated the number of people wanting to attend.

One last thing's puzzled me regarding the virulent anti PAD mob on this forum, is that the PAD comprise a 'royalist elite'! I would like to disavow anyone entertaining any stupid notion that the rural population are any less loyal to the monarchy than the PAD are!

Edited November 24, 2008 by jitagon

[JoeInSurin]

I don't have a degree and I do not have outstanding English skills either.

However it doesn't take a higher level of education to understand that any vote won by way of votes being bought is not democratic. Or does it take some sort of profound understanding that I don't possess?

I agree that vote buying is not democratic and if found guilty they should be dissolved but this does not give the PAD the right to break laws also.

[Moonrakers]

I don't have a degree and I do not have outstanding English skills either.

However it doesn't take a higher level of education to understand that any vote won by way of votes being bought is not democratic. Or does it take some sort of profound understanding that I don't possess?

Then let the law deal with it and not resort to mob rule, it's not rocket science is it mate?

Now as for vote buying, thats what politics is all about although most governments are sensible. So as an example I want the votes of the poor so I promise tax cuts, I want the votes of the civil servants so I propose wage increases for them.

simple really

If the law can't deal with it because the perpetrators continue to take advantages of loopholes in the law to remain in power then what is left to do?

Now as for vote buying: THE COURTS have judged that that these parties should be dissolved due to mass vote buying, making the election undemocratic. Surely that is black and white, it's not rocket science is it mate?

[animatic]

I don't have a degree and I do not have outstanding English skills either.

However it doesn't take a higher level of education to understand that any vote won by way of votes being bought is not democratic. Or does it take some sort of profound understanding that I don't possess?

Then let the law deal with it and not resort to mob rule, it's not rocket science is it mate?

Now as for vote buying, thats what politics is all about although most governments are sensible. So as an example I want the votes of the poor so I promise tax cuts, I want the votes of the civil servants so I propose wage increases for them.

simple really

Great idea except that the current crew in power is trying to

re-write the laws to their benefit and the loss of most all others.

The reason the streets are mobbed is because this government is NOT acting sensibly.

If they were it would be calm now...

No one really wants PAD out there doing this.

But the alternative is some form of LONG term servitude

to Thakin's family dynastic ambitions.

If you are not looking at Thaksin's moves and only at PAD's,

then you are seeing a very incomplete picture.

Takes two to tango, in mirror images.

[Journalist]

Don't suppose this topic can be restricted to news feeds, so one doesn't have to plough through the debate about whether the government was or was not elected, which is running in numerous other topics.

[owengeary]

Who is supporting these protesters? My brother in-law is getting paid to protest. There can only be one family who can pay 500 baht a day to each protester. It goes to show that hypocrite nature of PAD.

[groovyc]

Jakrapob revealed that the visa cancellation of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his wife by the United Kingdom was sought by a former Thai foreign minister who promised to protect the interest of the UK in Phuket in exchange for the visa revocation in order to humiliate Thaksin.

/sarcasm

Yup. That's how we roll in the UK.

And of course with our huge regional interests on that tiny island we simply could not turn up the opportunity of a single man defending our interests there...

/sarcasm

Jakrapob has clearly shown how blinkered and introverted his view of the world is if he truly said this.

The UK is not like Thailand. We don't make policy based on cash backhanders.......

well well well, this surely isn't the place for this arguement, but since it has started:

As unbelievable as Jakrapob's statement sounds, I wouldn't be so surprised if it is true.

Why? Because I can't find any reasonable explanation for the visa cancellation of Thaksin,

when criminals / terrorists of banned organizations etc live and carry on with their trade

under the nose of SY within the protective umbrella of "political refugee".

As long as there is no reasonable explanation given, I'd rather keep my eyes open.

[h90]

So to begin...this Government is NOT democratic elected.....

They are already found guilty of massive vote buying, they just wait to get dissolved (If they have been found guilty of vote buying and are waiting to be dissolved then the system is working. Why does PAD think they need to get involved?).They come from an dissolved party and they prepared already a new party for their future. (Is this against the law?)

Their MPs frequently fly or phone to a criminal as they don't know what to do.

And you think that is OK? (My opinion does not matter. If they want to do that it is not breaking any laws.)

If you can't figure out that a government which came into power due to vote buying is wrong, than your law degree was a waste of time.

If they have been found guilty of vote buying and are waiting to be dissolved why does this gives the PAD the right to break many laws?

This gives the PAD the right to help to enforce the law. If you recall the parliament wanted to start a change in the constitution today to avoid punishment.

Changing laws after breaking them, destroys the system. By so far I didn't see the PAD braking many laws. Whenever court ordered them to leave somewhere they did.

The court even canceled the order that PAD must leave the government house area, if you recall that.

[hammered]

Its always nice looking at things in a nice western democratic framework. However, this vicious little power struggle defies most of that kind of quaint stuff with one side utterly refusing to accept court decisons and the other side wanting to rid the country of OMOV style elections. Two sides of a coin imho but there are lot of canon fodder around and of course the power hungry nutters wont stop and it isnt usually their lives on the line.

We should also be a bit careful assuming the police are strictly neutral. That is not exactly what even mid ranking officers seem to say

[MHM]

I agree with Journalist. Otherwise its just pantomine time

'Oh no he isn't"

'Oh yes he is"

(repeat)

[baht&sold]

PAD declare 'victory' after House session postponed

Ridiculous headline. Also, there are reports the Police have ordered the nefarious 'border patrol police' in once again (same as on Oct 7). Plus, the PPP have until Nov 28th to change the constitution in a 'DO or DIE' deadline before jumping to the shiny new 'rescue party' (Puea Thai) headed by Thaksin's cousin... (aka the 'party-on-plunder-party' or just POPP for short...)

SHORT of distributing Thaksin's frozen 76 billion baht to every man woman and child in Thailand this is FAR from over (however, that might just solve both a political and economic problem all in one go tho...)

Regardless, as we approach HM the King's birthday on Dec 5th, especially His Majesty the King but also the people of Thailand deserve better, much better...

[Jai Dee]

Don't suppose this topic can be restricted to news feeds, so one doesn't have to plough through the debate about whether the government was or was not elected, which is running in numerous other topics.

ThaiVisa is a discussion forum, where news bulletins and updates can be discussed and debated amongst the members.

There are other sources on the Internet that can provide news only feeds for you.

[baht&sold]

Ex-Thai PM hits out at UK

source: www.arabianbusiness.com Sunday (late) 23 November 2008

LASHING OUT: Shinawatra said the British government was not respecting its own democratic values.

Former Thai prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra has lashed out at the UK for revoking his visa - and vowed to return to Thailand as prime minister.

In an exclusive interview with Arabian Business, to be published next Sunday, Shinawatra said the UK would "feel sorrow" for revoking his visa and accused the British government of not respecting its own democratic values.

Shinawatra’s UK visa was cancelled earlier this month following his conviction for corruption in Thailand. He had fled to the UK in 2006 following a military coup that removed him from power.

"England must understand better, but unfortunately they are now busy with their own problems - so they forgot about democratic values," Shinawatra said during an interview in Dubai.

Shinawatra vowed to return to Thailand at some stage, stating that he could bring confidence back to the country.

"The country is going down deeply. The confidence is not there. The trust amongst foreign community is not there. The poor people in rural areas are in difficulty," he said.

"With me at the helm I can bring confidence quickly back to Thailand. We have to find a mechanism under which I can go back, that is why I must tell you that I will go back into politics."

However, Shinawatra said he would only return if the people and the king of Thailand wanted him to go back.

"I think a lot depends on the power of the people. If they feel they are in hardship and they need me to help them, I will go back," he said.

"If the king feels I can be beneficial I will go back and he may grant me a royal pardon. If they don’t need me and the king feels I can make no difference then I will stay here and do business."

The full, exclusive interview with Shinawatra will be published in Arabian Business on Sunday Nov. 30, and from 10am on Thursday Nov. 27 online at ArabianBusiness.com

[catmac]

Bravo...Bravo to werbs.

It IS more important to read what a poster says on a forum...than to play schoolmarm and spell checker with each post with which you disagree. This is a place to add to the conversation...NOT to subtract from it. We all need to think before we attack fellow posters with petty accusations and rude allegations. JMHO

It is a tactic used by people with nothing sensibe to add to a conversation, they do not have the ability to counter ones points so they resort to hunting down typo's or grammatical errors in the hope they can appear educated and therefor part of the discussion, when in all honesty they have nothing sensible to bring to the discussion.

Oh and by the way, I am leaving errors in now on purpose just to annoy him

Werbs

(still waiting for a PM)

Yes, yes, yes!

Werbs, you've hit the nail right on the head! Just go back through the umpteen pages of gumph on the last thread to cover this topic, and the standard reply of the PADisters to any observation is either "you love Thaksin", "...but I am so much more knowledgeable than you" or, if all else fails, "look, there's a spelling mistake!".

Then, of course, they can always band together to get you banned!

[Jai Dee]

100 protesters reach Don Muang

At 1:10 pm, about 100 protesters arrived at the temporary government seat at the Don Muang Airport to protest.

Once the protesters arrived, Cabinet members left the area.

The protesters were those rallying at the Finance Ministry earlier in the day.

Source: The Nation - 24 November 2008

[hammered]

From TOC

ASTV news, quoting an anonymous source, reports that police is planning to set fire to Government House and Parliament and blame it on the People's Alliance for Democracy.

It's also reported that 8,000 police officers are on standby to disperse the PAD protesters. Thousands of police officers are reportedly on a standby at various locations includng the basement of Parliament, behind the Metropolitan Police Bureau and the Don Muang Airport.

edited to add: anonymous source warning but if the event were to happen all hel_l would break lose and the accustions and conspiracies go through the roof. Lets hope it is nonsense rumour

Edited November 24, 2008 by hammered

[fsuthai]

the unarmed police just shooted at a bus.

I just can't believe that the government is not doing anything after they had no problems killing people last time.

The police ended a hijacking with reasonable use of force and with no loss of life, and you seem to be implying that this is a bad thing . How much koolaid did you drink?

Maybe they should have given the bus a police escort through parliment.

OK, lets try again....

How can an unarmed policeman shoot?

Or is the police telling a lie, again?

<snip>

do you really expect ALL police in Bangkok to be unarmed? the police at the parlaiment are unarmed, the police elsewhere are not unarmed (and i am sure the criminals amonst the PAD are armed.

Do you think everyone should just give in to the criminals? do you think they shoulkd be given the freedom to continue with their criminal activities?

<snip>

I know it is none of my business (being a 'guest' resident) but I think you are wrong, Werbs, in branding the political protesters "criminals". I applaud their non-violent protesting and am surprised at how many posters here feel that the unarmed and very brave PAD supporters are the villains in this serious scenario. There is nothing "patriotic" about blind allegiance to bad governance. In fact, in a free society, it is a citizen's duty to protest when elections are stolen, bought, or misused. The current majority has made no attempts to hide their 'advise & consent' status with the banished billionaire that would be king...or god. "Toxin" and the similar super greedy, super rich, 'power elite' (elite only in their own perverted minds) in other countries of this world have absolutely no care or concern for the rest of the world's population or, indeed, for what happens to our world! Such people MUST be opposed by whatever means available. To not do so is like volunteering for slavery. IMHO

Good luck Thailand...fight the good fight (peacefully, of course)!

[Jai Dee]

Just a reminder to all members reading and participating in this thread... from the Forum Rules:

"No disrespect of the King of Thailand or The Thai Royal Family! Discussion of topics concerning the King or other current or deceased members of the Thai Royal Family is forbidden."

Please take note.

[Plus]

At this point PPP's defence strategy is to flood the court with witnesses, every party executive is lined up so prove his innonence.

In PPP's lawyers estimation the court would take up to six months to reach the decision.

That means a year and a half to judge the elections result as illegitimate.

No wonder this timeframe is unacceptable to the people who are forced to suffer at the hands of these crooks working for Thaksin instead of the country.

Posters who talk about legitimate government should better concentrate on getting this government to do the legitimate job - administer the country, not save Thaksin and overwrite the consitution.

[hansnl]

I know speaking nicely is very important in Thailand. I've just listened to a PAD spokesman and also to a Government spokewoman live, haven't got a clue what they are talking about. Don't usually comment on 'Thai Politics' as its drilled into us that its not falangs buisiness.

the wife translated for me and it would seem clear that the PAD guy ain't speaking nicely and that he is trying to rally his troops into a frenzy. Fighting frenzy I would say, using someone who we cannot mention as a weapon. He appears to be fanatical and ain't going nowhere until he gets his way. The goverment spokeswoman was speaking nicely, I don't think there's a cat in hells chance of a peaceful resolution unless someone influential steps in to prevent the impending bloodbath.

My wife translated for me!

Strange, my wife told me that the PPP-man was talking war, and the PAD-man talking peace.

Or something like that.

I guess the translation is bent into the political preferences of the translator.

Or something like that.

Don't comment on Thai politics might be the best advice.

Indeed it is not our business, although I fear the end result might be not so comfortable for us.

If it was not such a sordid, tragic business, it would be hilarious.

Because nobody seems to understand where it is really all about.

That said, I guess I think I have an inkling of a feeling where it might all be about.

Or maybe I am wrong.

[animatic]

Jakrapob revealed that the visa cancellation of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his wife by the United Kingdom was sought by a former Thai foreign minister who promised to protect the interest of the UK in Phuket in exchange for the visa revocation in order to humiliate Thaksin.

/sarcasm

Yup. That's how we roll in the UK.

And of course with our huge regional interests on that tiny island we simply could not turn up the opportunity of a single man defending our interests there...

/sarcasm

Jakrapob has clearly shown how blinkered and introverted his view of the world is if he truly said this.

The UK is not like Thailand. We don't make policy based on cash backhanders.......

well well well, this surely isn't the place for this arguement, but since it has started:

As unbelievable as Jakrapob's statement sounds, I wouldn't be so surprised if it is true.

Why? Because I can't find any reasonable explanation for the visa cancellation of Thaksin,

when criminals / terrorists of banned organizations etc live and carry on with their trade

under the nose of SY within the protective umbrella of "political refugee".

As long as there is no reasonable explanation given, I'd rather keep my eyes open.

Simple reasons:

He neglected to actually FILE a refugee status document or for any political persecution protections.

It was CLEARLY brought to the english embassy's attention that they were convicted and wanted for evasion.

He left the country and they decided that this was a perfect time to get him off their patch.

3 points all valid.

Comparing to Pinochette for instance, he hadn't left,

but when he did he had no chance to get back in either.

If Martha Stewart is persona non grata,

Thaksin shouldn't get BETTER treatment no should he?

[bubba]

I wonder if I should start thinking about changing my ticket out of Don Muang for a trip upcountry during the holidays.

Protesters to Relocate to Temporary Govt HQ at Don Muang

PAD leader Somsak Kosaisuk has declared victory to the PAD's movement and laying siege to Parliament. He then requested the PAD protesters to relocate to Don Muang Airport, the makeshift government headquarters.

Somsak has requested for 20,000 - 30,000 PAD supporters to gather in front of Don Muang Airport, the current makeshift government headquarters of the Somchai administration. The rest of the protesters will rejoin their fellow PAD supporters at Government House and Makawan Bridge.

The PAD protesters who have earlier surrounded the Finance Ministry has already travelled to the Don Muang Airport.

A report has just come in that the PAD protesters who were travelling from the Finance Ministry were encountered by anti-PAD protesters who are standing guard in front of the Don Muang Airport. They are allegedly fully armed.

Somsak added that the PAD will once again surround Parliament when the Parliamentary session ends on November 28, 2008

Source: Thailand Outlook

[Journalist]

There can only be one family who can pay 500 baht a day to each protester.

Who are you referring to? Given the protesters are anti Thaksin.

[neverdie]

OR OR

[faranginbkk]

There can only be one family who can pay 500 baht a day to each protester.

Who are you referring to? Given the protesters are anti Thaksin.

Are you really a journalist?

Use your imagination.

[catmac]

Numbers anyone?

Just how many protesters are there actually on the streets of Bangkok?

The only estimates I've seen for yesterday were 40,000 in the Post (quoted in the last thread) and "from a half to a third of the expected number" from AP (also quoted in the last thread) which would give from 25 to 33 thousand from PAD's dream of having 100,000 turn out. Give them 40,000, or even 50,000 and that's still less people than turn out for a good English football match! Coupled with the other quote in the last thread that support at Gov Hse. was dwindling away to no more than 5000 hard core protesters on a day to day basis, makes me think that the vast mass of Thailand's population want nothing more to do with Sondhi and his bunch of clowns.

And then Jai Dee reports that "100 protesters have reached Don Muang"..........ONE HUNDRED, and they think this gives them a mandate to overthrow the Government (however inept this present one may be). I've been watching the live coverage on TV (not ASTV - I don't get the cartoon channel), and while there were certainly crowds, a good few thousand or so, it was nothing like the mass uprising that PAD have hyped it up to be.

PAD may well be right about one thing. This probably will be the final attempt, I don't think the next one would be big enough to even make the news!

[hammered]

Numbers anyone?

Just how many protesters are there actually on the streets of Bangkok?

The only estimates I've seen for yesterday were 40,000 in the Post (quoted in the last thread) and "from a half to a third of the expected number" from AP (also quoted in the last thread) which would give from 25 to 33 thousand from PAD's dream of having 100,000 turn out. Give them 40,000, or even 50,000 and that's still less people than turn out for a good English football match! Coupled with the other quote in the last thread that support at Gov Hse. was dwindling away to no more than 5000 hard core protesters on a day to day basis, makes me think that the vast mass of Thailand's population want nothing more to do with Sondhi and his bunch of clowns.

And then Jai Dee reports that "100 protesters have reached Don Muang"..........ONE HUNDRED, and they think this gives them a mandate to overthrow the Government (however inept this present one may be). I've been watching the live coverage on TV (not ASTV - I don't get the cartoon channel), and while there were certainly crowds, a good few thousand or so, it was nothing like the mass uprising that PAD have hyped it up to be.

PAD may well be right about one thing. This probably will be the final attempt, I don't think the next one would be big enough to even make the news!

I doubt the numbers game is that important. What is more critcal is can they stop the constitutional ammendment and amnesty from being tabled until the parliamentary session ends. If they can they succeed if they cant they fail.