4 Grenades Explode Near Thailand's Anti-government Tv Station

[cmsally]

No the EU demanded to send observer in a very impolite way. The military government rejected that and was pretty upset. As well many people who support PAD were very upset about the EU.

It was a kind of "who can be more stupid" contest with two winner.....

So this was NOT Thaksin.

It was, as said above, the military govt. headed by Surayud that refused the observers and also backed by the Lawyers Council.

Seems rather ironic that they were worried about the EU not recognising the new govt when it turned out they couldn't agree on the outcome within their own country.

It seems once again that H90 has inside info. , this time on impoliteness of the EU.

Pray tell us what the wording of the MoU sent from the EU to the Thai govt was and how it was seen as impolite.

Irrawaddy article on EU observers

IHT article on EU observers

[sbk]

*****As an aside, please please do not quote each time. If necessary, quote and edit out the lengthy nested quotes. It makes it very difficult to read and follow when its all quoted posts followed by one or two sentences

thanks

[TAWP]

IIRC, they felt the suggestion to send observers was beneth them as they are not a 'third world country'.

Classical nationalistic paranoia.

And to be fair, cannot say any side wanted the observers to come. All too proud.

[jdinasia]

Regarding the Bus incident. How likely do you think it is that 6 men "hijacked" a whole bus using a shotgun and that they belonged to the PAD? Far easier to pile into a taxi!

However, there are groups like the UDD that use tactics like this! Disinformation is common.

Remember the 2 guys on the motorcycle? "Caught" with all kinds of weapons etc the day before the report on the police action of the 7th of Oct and the report on the Gov'ts responsibility ? The case just disappeared apparently .... why? It appears to have been a set-up job! If it were real the Gov't and the Thaksinistas would have kept at the PAD over that in every press conference. They didn't. They knew it was just far too obvious!

[werbs]

Only bad thing?

Where you by any chance one of the coppers laid off for beating up some 'thugs' in the cell?

You seem to have no problem labeling everyone not fitting into your UK-CCTV-fascist-model as criminals and thinking any pain or injury upon them is rightful and a 'good thing'.

If you cannot see an issue with unarmed people getting killed by Police-officers, well...that is it then.

Unarmed. comedy gold you are. Have you ever taken the trouble to go and see these thugs in the flesh? Maybe take a drive down Rama 5 where the jeep is that was packed with explosives and detonated ( yes folks it's actually parked at the side of the road),

As for your comments, I left the police after being stabbed, no doubt in your mind the guy who stabbed me was just misunderstood or I deserved it blah blah blah.

As for the deaths/ injuries, go and find a cobra and poke it with a stick for a few hours, see what happens. If you are part of a mob and ignoring the laws of the land you have no real complaint when it goes pear shaped

Edited November 24, 2008 by werbs

[werbs]

LOL .. yeah read the whole tread Werbs --- and yes we all noticed you skipping over "The only bad thing". I assume where you come from there is no history of civil disobedience? It is clear that you don't understand what it at play here in Thailand!

I know full well what's going on thanks, as for skipping over things, I didn't skip over it, it is already clear what my thought is on it so no need to go over it again.

I am British, we have had civil disobedience, quite what that has to do with this is beyond me, explain what my nationality has to do with the situation in Thailand. I know you are one of these guys who defends Thailand at all costs but don't be silly now.

[Sakeopete]

Same can be said about Mugabe's government in Zimbabwe, just because a government is elected doesn't mean it was elected freely. Thaksin and cronies use the same instruction manual as most other dictator wannabes. 1: Promise the poor handouts and buy vote 2: Make the poor dependent on handouts and government programs. 3: Once the poor are unable to survive without government handouts plunder the state coffers at will, the poor will be too scared to vote for anyone else. 4: Rule with an iron fist for as long as possible take ownership of the judiciary and army. 5: Enjoy your ill gotten gains and remember to throw an occasional bone to the poor before the next vote.

I don't think there are any decent alternatives for Thailand whoever comes on top will be self serving as always. Like any country in the world the people deserve the government they have because in the end they are the only ones who can change it.

[JoeInSurin]

People breaking the law get killed some times. If you are at home and not breaking laws this would not happen to you. You are trying to make the bad guy the victims. The Police have the right to break up mobs. Pad does not have the right to block Parlaiment. Please show us where the law shows different.

[werbs]

Regarding the Bus incident. How likely do you think it is that 6 men "hijacked" a whole bus using a shotgun and that they belonged to the PAD? Far easier to pile into a taxi!

However, there are groups like the UDD that use tactics like this! Disinformation is common.

Remember the 2 guys on the motorcycle? "Caught" with all kinds of weapons etc the day before the report on the police action of the 7th of Oct and the report on the Gov'ts responsibility ? The case just disappeared apparently .... why? It appears to have been a set-up job! If it were real the Gov't and the Thaksinistas would have kept at the PAD over that in every press conference. They didn't. They knew it was just far too obvious!

So now you think they wanted the bus just for themselves, the buses were used to ferry a number of PAD criminals to various sites, not just used by the few thieves who stole the bus

Edited November 24, 2008 by werbs

[jdinasia]

No the EU demanded to send observer in a very impolite way. The military government rejected that and was pretty upset. As well many people who support PAD were very upset about the EU.

It was a kind of "who can be more stupid" contest with two winner.....

So this was NOT Thaksin.

It was, as said above, the military govt. headed by Surayud that refused the observers and also backed by the Lawyers Council.

Seems rather ironic that they were worried about the EU not recognising the new govt when it turned out they couldn't agree on the outcome within their own country.

It seems once again that H90 has inside info. , this time on impoliteness of the EU.

Pray tell us what the wording of the MoU sent from the EU to the Thai govt was and how it was seen as impolite.

Irrawaddy article on EU observers

The group said the Thai Election Commission was responsible for conducting the election and that is enough to insure a fair election. To sign such an agreement would be in violation of the constitution which requires a public hearing and approval of parliament, the statement said.

IHT article on EU observers

It seems like there were reasons huh?

[JoeInSurin]

When the PAD gives the BS propaganda do you not belive it until it is proven? Do you think everything that the PAD accuses the Police and Army of is maybe a third party?

[JoeInSurin]

LOL .. yeah read the whole tread Werbs --- and yes we all noticed you skipping over "The only bad thing". I assume where you come from there is no history of civil disobedience? It is clear that you don't understand what it at play here in Thailand!

JD, Why is the only argument you can come up with is "LOL" and "people don't understand". Why do you understand everything and think that anyone that does not agree with you does not "understand". That is not an argument. I see you were never on a debate team.

Edited November 24, 2008 by JoeInSurin

[CuttySark]

Regarding the Bus incident. How likely do you think it is that 6 men "hijacked" a whole bus using a shotgun and that they belonged to the PAD? Far easier to pile into a taxi!

However, there are groups like the UDD that use tactics like this! Disinformation is common.

Remember the 2 guys on the motorcycle? "Caught" with all kinds of weapons etc the day before the report on the police action of the 7th of Oct and the report on the Gov'ts responsibility ? The case just disappeared apparently .... why? It appears to have been a set-up job! If it were real the Gov't and the Thaksinistas would have kept at the PAD over that in every press conference. They didn't. They knew it was just far too obvious!

I totally agree with you that it is a setup job. Just just when PAD bomb themselves a few days ago. Also the NBT station violence where actually carried out by red in yellow shirt.

[CuttySark]

I have a jacket in my office. It is wearable on both sides (inside & outside). The amazing thing is that, it can either be completely orange or completely black.

I have a business idea. I should start marketing a new line of jacket, t-shirt etc. Reversable and wearable, RED or YELLOW in one. It would suit people like me, the Chat Thai leader, many many others, who just want to side the Victor.

[Ricardo]

But no convictions against the PAD and no attempt to break up their trespass and crimnal activities

You claimed that there had been "no attempt to break up their trespass". I pointed out that this was in fact not correct :-

Strangely you seem to have overlooked the mass-attack, with explosive gas-grenades, by the border-police against the PAD, at the beginning of last month ? Some 500 people injured/maimed/hospitalised ?? Ring any bells ???

Do you mean when the police quite rightly moved an illegal obstruction whos aim was purely to obstruct the legal sitting of parlaiment?

It would appear that you take one side of the propoganda while I see it as it is. The only bad thing here is that they don't give a 5 minute warning to the crooks trespassing at government house before launching tear gas into there and dispersing these criminals

Instead of conceding your mistaken claim, that there had been no attempt, you then start instead to argue that the attempt had been justified, which is a completely different point.

I agree with you that it was wrong of the border-police, not to give any warning, before firing explosive tear-gas rounds at a largely-unarmed crowd of civilians.

[TAWP]

Only bad thing?

Where you by any chance one of the coppers laid off for beating up some 'thugs' in the cell?

You seem to have no problem labeling everyone not fitting into your UK-CCTV-fascist-model as criminals and thinking any pain or injury upon them is rightful and a 'good thing'.

If you cannot see an issue with unarmed people getting killed by Police-officers, well...that is it then.

Unarmed. comedy gold you are. Have you ever taken the trouble to go and see these thugs in the flesh? Maybe take a drive down Rama 5 where the jeep is that was packed with explosives and detonated ( yes folks it's actually parked at the side of the road),

As for your comments, I left the police after being stabbed, no doubt in your mind the guy who stabbed me was just misunderstood or I deserved it blah blah blah.

As for the deaths/ injuries, go and find a cobra and poke it with a stick for a few hours, see what happens. If you are part of a mob and ignoring the laws of the land you have no real complaint when it goes pear shaped

You spout things that aren't based on facts.

Let's take the quick correction so we can see how you treat the truth:

- The young girl killed by the teargas grenade was unarmed. Probably was so several of the others with maimed legs and feet, or atleast one couldn't see any weapons from the footage by the news crews.

- The car didn't contain a bomb. The 'explosion' like cloud happened after several minutes of the whole car being on fire. Most likely the gastank overcooking. (It wasn't very much of an explosion either, just very much a gas-tank having it's content released via the safetyvalve due to overpressue. Seen it up close in a restaurant fire some (14) years ago. A mushroom-cloud shot up 4-5 meters into the air and me and another guy stood unharmed just 2 meters away from the tank, at the time trying to put out the general fire in the kitchen-area. We left in haste after that.)

- The police should react like a teased cobra, that is when their training should set them apart from random thugs. I'm concerned you, as a former police officer, doesn't reflect upon that.

[JoeInSurin]

The bottom line is the Government in power now is in power legally untill they are dissolved by the courts for vote buying or something else. It is also legal for the police to use tear gas to disperse a mob. The PAD is clearly taking things into their hands that they have no right to do so and have broken many laws.

Conclusion:

The Government might not be legitimate and it is for the courts to decide not the PAD. If they have bought votes then dissolve them. It is for the courts to decide not PAD.

The police were doing their job and should have not backed down and should have ended the PAD rally for good. It is their job and they did not get it done. I people get hurt while breaking the law they should not try to make the police doing their job the victim.

PAD breaking the law and trying to overthrow the government by personal means that are illegal and not within the court system should not be tolerated by anyone that belives in democracy.

Edited November 24, 2008 by JoeInSurin

[PeaceBlondie]

Further posts containing nested posts by posters of posters of posters will simply be deleted in full, rather than edited. Y;all have better computer skills and better hand coordination than I have, so use those skills if you wish your post to remain. Thank you.

[h90]

What I got told:

on Don Muang Airport PAD could use the VIP parking places, Thai Airways allowed that.

She told me a large crowd is there. But what is large? 100, 1000, 100.000??

A motorbike taxi passed by and I was instructed he needs 2 tends (which we have here) and 3000 Baht for fans and some other things.

Motorbike guy told he does not take money for that as he want to help PAD (but not to overvalue that, he gets almost daily jobs from us so he may do that to please us).

[jdinasia]

LOL .. yeah read the whole tread Werbs --- and yes we all noticed you skipping over "The only bad thing". I assume where you come from there is no history of civil disobedience? It is clear that you don't understand what it at play here in Thailand!

JD, Why is the only argument you can come up with is "LOL" and "people don't understand". Why do you understand everything and think that anyone that does not agree with you does not "understand". That is not an argument. I see you were never on a debate team.

Huh? didn't you recently say that you didn't need anything but your opinion. You didn't need information just your opinion? That isn't debating, it isn't even discussing! It is merely venting your spleen.

Please note that in what you quoted I pointed out two fallacies in werb's argument. Skipping over his :the only bad thing: and that civil disobedience is not normally met with deadly force. (Though there is a history of exactly that here in Thailand, sadly!)

The argument that "people breaking the law sometimes get hurt" while true, is specious in this instance. We are discussing an act of civil disobedience where lives were not at risk UNTIL the police started using deadly force.

[JoeInSurin]

[

- The young girl killed by the teargas grenade was unarmed. Probably was so several of the others with maimed legs and feet, or atleast one couldn't see any weapons from the footage by the news crews.

These things happen to people that break the law and defy the police. If anyone is at fault it is the PAD for brainwashing these people into getting killed and hurt. If anything the PAD has blood on their hands for using these vulnerable people as pawns in their personal war. The police were doing their job. The people hurt were breaking the law. Quit trying to make the bad guys (PAD) the victims.

[animatic]

PAD guards seize public buses to use in rally

(BangkokPost.com) - A number of public buses belonging to the Bangkok Mass Transit Authority (BMTA) had been seized by the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) to aid the group in moving protesters between rally points in the capital.

BMTA Director Pinate Puapatanakul said buses running in route numbers 3, 53, 56 and 515 were seized. Policemen were able to facilitate the return of a route 53 bus so far.

Police from Nanglerng station apprehended six PAD guards close to the Royal Thai Survey Department road intersection after the latter seized the bus. The bus's fare collector said the guards had stepped on board and told the driver to stop the bus, before chasing out all the passengers and taking the vehicle's control. Police intercepted the bus, firing into and bursting the front tires to immobilise it. The six men were found with improvised firearms, ammunition and metal rods.

The BMTA had ordered changes in bus routing on several routes to avoid the PAD's rally points. BMTA executives told its traffic planning division to monitor the rally around the clock so changes to bus routing and response to any other problems could be made swiftly.

Is this acceptable to the pro-PAD?

Though not specifically prop PAD, just having some parallel goals for Thailand

No of course this isn't acceptable.

[george]

Female protesters assault deputy Metropolitan Police Division chief

DON MUANG: -- Female protesters assaulted a deputy commander of the Metropolitan Police Division 4 at the Don Muang Airport Monday evening.

The protesters booed Pol Col Phatchara Boonyaprasit while he walking from the canteen at the airport at 5:15 pm. Several spat at him and many threw water bottles at him.

At one moment, he was pushed until he fell over and the back of his head hit a barricade.

After he fell down, several protesters kicked him and threw water bottles at him again until other policemen came to rescue him and took him away.

-- The Nation 2008-11-24

[animatic]

I wonder who rejected EU offers? It must be Thaksin, as his allies are most likely (IMHO) to cheat.

No the EU demanded to send observer in a very impolite way. The military government rejected that and was pretty upset. As well many people who support PAD were very upset about the EU.

It was a kind of "who can be more stupid" contest with two winner.....

So this was NOT Thaksin.

I agree with this.

It was more egotistical nationalistic posturing,

and to NO POSITIVE END.

[Tod]

Female protesters assault deputy Metropolitan Police Division chief

DON MUANG: -- Female protesters assaulted a deputy commander of the Metropolitan Police Division 4 at the Don Muang Airport Monday evening.

The protesters booed Pol Col Phatchara Boonyaprasit while he walking from the canteen at the airport at 5:15 pm. Several spat at him and many threw water bottles at him.

At one moment, he was pushed until he fell over and the back of his head hit a barricade.

After he fell down, several protesters kicked him and threw water bottles at him again until other policemen came to rescue him and took him away.

-- The Nation 2008-11-24

That's impossible!

The PAD are peaceful protesters... Must be a move from Thaksin to discredit these pacifists and well educated demonstrators

[Thanh-BKK]

-snip-

Conclusion:

The Government might not be legitimate and it is for the courts to decide not the PAD. If they have bought votes then dissolve them. It is for the courts to decide not PAD.

-snip-

Hi.

As i mentioned previously, the problem with that is that the government is able to amend the constitution so that they are no longer criminal despite having bought votes! And they can (and will!) do that a lot faster than the court is able to dissolve the party.

Which is why the PAD uses all available peaceful means to disturb the government in doing that. Because, don't you see it, this government doesn't give a rat's ass for the country or the people, it ONLY serves itself and Mr. T!

Still i (and i'm very much pro-PAD) do NOT accept the hijacking of civil buses. Because that is NOT what i see "peaceful". However it has yet to be found if that was really PAD! because i, too, can wear a yellow shirt and go rob a bank. Does it make the PAD bank robbers..?? Even if i leave a note "thanks for the money, your PAD" doesn't mean it was them.

Regards.....

Thanh

[JoeInSurin]

LOL .. yeah read the whole tread Werbs --- and yes we all noticed you skipping over "The only bad thing". I assume where you come from there is no history of civil disobedience? It is clear that you don't understand what it at play here in Thailand!

JD, Why is the only argument you can come up with is "LOL" and "people don't understand". Why do you understand everything and think that anyone that does not agree with you does not "understand". That is not an argument. I see you were never on a debate team.

Huh? didn't you recently say that you didn't need anything but your opinion. You didn't need information just your opinion? That isn't debating, it isn't even discussing! It is merely venting your spleen.

Please note that in what you quoted I pointed out two fallacies in werb's argument. Skipping over his :the only bad thing: and that civil disobedience is not normally met with deadly force. (Though there is a history of exactly that here in Thailand, sadly!)

The argument that "people breaking the law sometimes get hurt" while true, is specious in this instance. We are discussing an act of civil disobedience where lives were not at risk UNTIL the police started using deadly force.

Do you really think that the police using the cheap China tear gas really wanted to kill people. The milk that came from China that killed babys was it used by mothers to kill their babys? The dog food that came from China that killed pets was it use by pet owners to kill their dogs? The lead paint that was on Mattel toys was it use by parents to give their children lead poisoning? The paint dots toy that the paint was found to have the same chemicals as Extacy was it used by parents to hook their kids on drugs? Do you think the police knew it was defective and would kill people rather than disperse people as its intended purpose?

[brahmburgers]

The bottom line is the Government in power now is in power legally untill they are dissolved by the courts for vote buying or something else.

Conclusion:

The Government might not be legitimate and it is for the courts to decide not the PAD. If they have bought votes then dissolve them. It is for the courts to decide not PAD.

That's a big reason for PAD's activism: the current so-called government won't allow justice to take its course. Justice, by the way, which supposedly stems from a Constitution which was recently ratified by a majority of Thai voters. Instead, the PPP (which, by the way, hasn't done any governing) spends all its public calories trying to re-write the constitution and/or playing games to avoid, nullify or postpone court proceedings against its illegal activities such as blatant vote-buying.

[BangkokBP]

That's impossible!

The PAD are peaceful protesters... Must be a move from Thaksin to discredit these pacifists and well educated demonstrators

I think that it is far from impossible, but as you say, most likely instigated by a few bad apples from the other box, with a different agenda than a peaceful protest.

/bbp

[jdinasia]

JoeinSurin --- again I repeat my invitation for you to go back and read the thread about that day and the results of the forensics and analysis by international groups. Yes when you fire weapons containing RDX directly at people instead of in an arc, and when you use scads of it, and when it is military ordinance then obviously it was meant to cause grievous bodily harm and in fact did kill and maim innocent people.

No, just because YOU have an opinion that the innocent victims of the police that day deserved to die, does not make that true.