Army Chief Urged To Stage Coup

[dtarasin]

How can this still be???

Yes, I would support a coup [ 352 ] [50.43%]

No, I would not support a coup [ 346 ] [49.57%]

No more voters, it is as divided as Thailand.

Is this Thaksin's legacy in the fahrang world.

50/50 looks like a healthy democratic split to me. The important issue is HOW a country and its people deal with their differences while moving forward. And at the moment, Thailand fails miserably.

Edited November 29, 2008 by dtarasin

[HelterSkelter]

Tak Bai, thanks for the reminder.

As long as it serves the greater goal of the Thai state (this can be interpreted at will by the powers that are in control) justice is a flexible term in Thailand. I believe the way forward should be to limit the power and influence of military and police more, and allow civil society to grow stronger. I do think Thaksin was on this path and that is the main reason he is not in power anymore.

Precise and true Your thoughts.Shared by many uttered by few!Actually the Thai constitution Guarantees the people FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

The Original Constitution of 1932 even went further and limited certain exclusive powers in society.In striving after a fair and free life for all

"Siamese" now Thai people.

That said if someone sais the "Wrong" things they are sensured,Imprisoned or worse Murdered!

So it is So it has been for a number of Decades!

Edited November 29, 2008 by HelterSkelter

[HelterSkelter]

The government was elected democratically by the people to represent them. A minority in Bangkok don't like the results and are trying to "fix it" so that the results are what they want rather than what the majority want. That is not democracy.

IMHO, the government should move the capital to some other city, anyway. This fiasco is proof that there is just too much "stuff" [insert alternative word] in one city. Leave Bangkok as the center for commerce. Move the seat of power elsewhere (Khorat or Khon Khaen would be my choice, personally).

Doing it under this administration would also create jobs when and where they are most needed.

not again that nonsense!!

The 3 biggest parties get dissolved on December 15 because of their massive vote buying. So they are NOT democratic elected.

h90 ,

First the courts had NO judicial support in the Thai constitution to make "parties get dissolved,because of their massive vote buying".

1) They did'nt let the commission finnish it's investigation.

2) They had no REAL authority as they were placed there by "None Legitimate"means.The Army Junta!

3) Before the Army Junta Fiddled with the Constitution there was NO SUCH "Law".It is all Hokus Pokus.

(If not the Law and Constitution or People, Who Controls The Army? And the Courts?)

Like in Western democracies, a party cannot be held collectively accountable for what some members and or employees do.

That said INDIVIDUAL politician can be prosecuted and MUST be removed and replaced by the Party involved! That was the constutition.

Edited November 29, 2008 by HelterSkelter

[jdinasia]

wrong on all counts H.S.

[HelterSkelter]

Tak Bai, thanks for the reminder.

As long as it serves the greater goal of the Thai state (this can be interpreted at will by the powers that are in control) justice is a flexible term in Thailand. I believe the way forward should be to limit the power and influence of military and police more, and allow civil society to grow stronger.

I do think Thaksin was on this path and that is the main reason he is not in power anymore.

:D

Thaksin was moving up his hand picked classmates in

both Police AND Army to get greater control of BOTH.

He also sued anyone who criticized him ; 1 billion baht a shot,

and as often as not the critique was based on facts,

but silenced with the power of teams of lawyers.

He was on the complete INVERSE path.

"He also sued anyone who criticized him ; 1 billion baht a shot" Pray tell where did You aquire such

detailed information?Would You PLEASE share with all of us Whom ALL those anyones sued were?

And of coarse why does it cost 1 billion Baht a Shot? If You can name me just 3 cases,Names,dates and which

Court He Paid the 3 Billion to,I will give You 3 thousand Baht!( You are aware that If You are Lying, it is Slander in Thailand and for the cost of a couple thousand Baht one Could Take You to court to Prove Your accusations?)

"and as often as not the critique was based on facts"What Facts, Who's,When Just two "Factual" Cases of true critique followed by 1 billion law Suit and I'll give You 2 Thousand Baht MORE!(Seems absurd! You can't get sued for "Critique well? I though it was Slander of Defamation!)

Hey Your soon a Rich Guy!(Don't forget to Vote for Me!)

Peace Out!

Edited November 29, 2008 by HelterSkelter

[HelterSkelter]

wrong on all counts H.S.

You See! jdinasia,

this is the root of the WHOLE problen We in common face hear(reguardless of Race,Creed , Religion or Nationality)

That is Namely a lack of "Will" and or "ability" to fully communicate Ideas so that everyone can reach some agreement or undertsanding.

So That together Unilaterally,WE can begin to Make closure and Move Forward TOGETHER. To Make a Safe, Proud and Happy future for our children and theirs!

'wrong on all counts H.S." does'nt even creat the slightest hair of understandable rebuttal to My Facts Stated below.(You can Google and Read the Thai Constitution.As for the Historical chain of events,WE'VE all been following that.)

It seems many people don't choose intellectual diologue.Why? Are they not really interested in creating a peacefull constructive discussion to solve the problems WE ALL face?Perhaps We are Lazy? Or feel powerless? I'm not sure anymore.

But just casting Verbal one line "Poopies" to hurt eachothers Egos, does'nt seem a rational step forward by grown Mature People who share a common history.And were educated in learning from the mistakes of our common Ancestors!

Truly I'm Sad!

Peace On!

[jdinasia]

H.S. you making statements does not make them facts, correcting your incorrect statements just isn't worth my time.

Intellectual dialogue requires people not to make false statements that must be rebutted time and time again. Go back and look into the court case against the PPP and THEN let us know what you think.

[MrSnrang]

"He also sued anyone who criticized him ; 1 billion baht a shot" Pray tell where did You aquire such

detailed information?Would You PLEASE share with all of us Whom ALL those anyones sued were?

And of coarse why does it cost 1 billion Baht a Shot? If You can name me just 3 cases,Names,dates and which

Court He Paid the 3 Billion to,I will give You 3 thousand Baht!( You are aware that If You are Lying, it is Slander in Thailand and for the cost of a couple thousand Baht one Could Take You to court to Prove Your accusations?)

"and as often as not the critique was based on facts"What Facts, Who's,When Just two "Factual" Cases of true critique followed by 1 billion law Suit and I'll give You 2 Thousand Baht MORE!(Seems absurd! You can't get sued for "Critique well? I though it was Slander of Defamation!)

Hey Your soon a Rich Guy!(Don't forget to Vote for Me!)

Peace Out!

http://cpj.org/2006/06/thailand-acting-pri...re-criminal.php

http://www.ifj.org/en/articles/thaksins-un...out-of-control-

http://www.ifex.org/en/content/view/full/73185/

http://enews.mcot.net/view.php?id=2542

May not have all been a billion baht but several were in excess of millions of dollars and there were more cases than could be counted.

You haven't been around long, have you?

[grtaylor]

You can read my previous posts in the past few years. I am totally against the military running the country, but at the point we are right now, I would support a coup.

I think I agree with you on both points. I mean, what is the alternative?

[Publicus]

An exclusive video from thaksin

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...........................

Hypocritical much??

If Thaksin returns to regain direct power it would be by means of a bloodbath, followed by a further bloodbath as every opponent (and others too) would be eliminated.

If a coup is executed then it will be the Thaksin gang that are eliminated.

[A_Traveller]

wrong on all counts H.S.

...

'wrong on all counts H.S." does'nt even creat the slightest hair of understandable rebuttal to My Facts Stated below.(You can Google and Read the Thai Constitution.As for the Historical chain of events,WE'VE all been following that.) ...

Peace On!

I've been traveling for some while, so I've not been posting here, for that and other reasons.

However, contemporaneously I took the time to note that the actions of the Constitutional Court were consistent with both the Constitution [both 97 & 07] and most relevantly herein the Organic Law on Political Parties [98]. Ultimately TRT & PPP [and other smaller parties] acted in a manner which caused them to be accused of breaching both Constitutional safeguards as well as the Organic law. If PPP is found similarly guilty, against admittedly more stringent rules enshrined with 07, though the Organic Law appears to have been breached as well, then it too will suffer the same fate, this is after all why an executive member resigned, so that a non-executive member of the party list might take his place.

IIRC, we are, in my view, also witnessing the playing out of simple political arithmetic. The Constitution requires that a MP be a member of the political party for a period of not less than 90 days, whereas, the parliamentary dissolution timetable calls for a general election within 60 days of promulgation. Therefore, if Somcahi dissolved parliament prior to the court ruling, then he runs the risk of all PPP MPs being ineligible to stand. If I'm correct in this, he needs to see the members safely into the new party fold for 31 days prior to dissolution, thereby allowing them to stand. This factor also plays into the PAD's 'raising the ante' and the rejection of Anupong's 'suggestions'.

Regards

[grtaylor]

An exclusive video from thaksin

................................................................................

...........................

Hypocritical much??

If Thaksin returns to regain direct power it would be by means of a bloodbath, followed by a further bloodbath as every opponent (and others too) would be eliminated.

If a coup is executed then it will be the Thaksin gang that are eliminated.

I don't know how he's got the balls to say some of the things he does, but what I find really scary is that I find myself wondering whether he wouldn't be a better alternative to the current situation . . . . .

[animatic]

An exclusive video from thaksin

................................................................................

...........................

Hypocritical much??

If Thaksin returns to regain direct power it would be by means of a bloodbath, followed by a further bloodbath as every opponent (and others too) would be eliminated.

If a coup is executed then it will be the Thaksin gang that are eliminated.

Watch as he answers.

He blinks 4-5-6 times fast at things clearly of... 'limited veracty' to outright lies.

And other times he says things that are demonstrably true and has little blinks at regular intervals.

Fairly long eye contact etc.

Look for a baseline of

'blinks to things you know are true'

and

'blinks to things you think are NOT true'.

Also look for repetitive movements and ticks.

Then you can judge his truthfulness pretty clearly.

ANY decent interview profiler can see some pretty big whoppers in there.

I'm no expert, but I know what I am seeing...

He was obviously up a late night and struggled with the language a bit,

but that just left him less time to try and hide his signals.

This guy must be pretty poor at poker, so likes a stacked deck.

[marshbags]

COMMENTARY

Is Anupong "trapped" like all of us?

By The Nation, Sat, November 29, 2008 : Last updated 16:27 hours

If Army chief is not what PAD charges he is, he may represent most Thais who simply are caught in the middle

The most enigmatic figure in Thai politics over the past few months has been Army chief Anupong Paochinda. Detractors call him a coward and betrayer and accuse him of being bought off by Thaksin Shinawatra. Admirers see a brave general who is willing to be pilloried by both sides of the deepening national conflict for the country's best interests. The latter group believes that he of all people knows what damage another coup will inflict on Thailand, whereas the former alleges that he had been spending all his time on the fence just to wait for an opportunity to strike for his own benefits.

All speculation aside, the Army has always been in an awkward position _ deservedly so. Having spearheaded the overthrow of the popularly elected Thaksin government, the Army deserved not to be trusted by recent governments which were dominated by political associates of the ousted leader. It also deserved to be presumed by critics, locally and internationally, as the key ally of The People's Alliance for Democracy. And it deserved to be scolded by the PAD on a daily basis when things didn't go the protesters' way.

Anupong has had to negotiate one curve after another. The "return to democracy" made him and former prime minister Samak Sundaravej the strangest bedfellows. Samak was smart to leave the military considerably on its own while going ballistic against the PAD on a routine basis. The first cracks subsequently appeared in the Anupong-PAd relationship.

After the October 7 bloodbath, the rumours that Anupong had betrayed everything by switching to Thaksin's side, allegedly with handsome rewards, intensified. He went on TV to announce the bloodbath and implicitly called on the Somchai government to "show responsibility". To some, that was a responsible general taking a measured view of the schemes of things and doing the best he could. To others, he was simply play-acting to get himself out of the jam in the wake of the political tragedy.

As the "Anupong has been bought off" rumours got stronger still, Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat appointed him chairman of the political crisis monitoring committee that brought together academics, technocrats and military officials. This very committee, after the Suvarnabhumi shutdown, proposed that the prime minister should dissolve the House and the PAD should subsequently end its protests. Then, to add confusion to the Anupong-Somchai relationship, the Army was suspiciously left out operations relating to the state of emergency Somchai declared on Thursday on the seized Suvarnabhumi and Don Muang airports.

So, who is Anupong exactly? Someone "bought off" but still "distrusted" who kept play-acting with the most disturbing demands that shook the government's stability every time he made them? Or is he simply caught in the middle because he tries to hold on to two principles _ no violence against the protesters and no coup?

It's simply too bad if he is the former. But it will be very sad if he is the latter, because those are two good principles. In fact they are the principles that should go hand in hand. And in this case Anupong will be just like many other Thais who are struggling to keep their sound souls amid the battering storms working relentless to blur their conscience.

Our national crisis has twisted and distorted many good values and made them clash while they should have been fostered as a package foundation to drive Thailand forward. It rubbed salt to our wounds when Thaksin Shinawatra of all the people preached from overseas, in the wake of the Suvarnabhumi closure, that when anyone tries to stay above the law, a country will be in trouble.

Sadder still is, events unfolding in Thailand are forcing "the latter" Anupong's hand rather than allow him to think the principles through, just like they are forcing all neutral Thais to accept the inevitability rather than hold on and leave no stone unturned for the best way out. After all the years of efforts to reform politics, we are back to the point where we have to live with what is shoved in front of us and presented as the lesser evil. The saddest of all is the fact that all this is happening because of proclaimed attempts to build what is best for Thailand.

marshbags

[Bangyai]

How can this still be???

Yes, I would support a coup [ 352 ] [50.43%]

No, I would not support a coup [ 346 ] [49.57%]

No more voters, it is as divided as Thailand.

Is this Thaksin's legacy in the fahrang world.

Er....what did you expext ? More support for a coup or less ? What is surprising is that although 80% of TV posters do not support the PAD, 50 % would be willing to support a coup that would be a satisfactory result for them ?

Anupong suggests the govournment steps down and new elections are held and the PAD go home. Both sides decline the suggestion so the Mexican stand off continues. If Somchai continues to refuse to step down, then the airport occupation will continue. The army will not want to launch a coup for fear of a new wave of counter protesters and the police will remain reluctant to act as they don't want to carry the can.

This could continue for some time yet .

[Plus]

If a coup is executed then it will be the Thaksin gang that are eliminated.

No, it won't be.

However, I'm afraid, there will be some hot reds who WILL oppose the coup and they might get arrested or killed.

I just cast my vote for "no coup" - it seems that a couple more days until PPP is dissolved is a lot lot better option.

If the courts rule that PPP can stay and only Yongyudh is reprimanded - then we will have to face a real question.

The real question is "Who does this government serve - people or Thaksin?". The court WILL NOT address it at all.

If this question does not become redundant after the court ruling, the coup option will start looking like the least bloodiest of any other alternatives.

I can't vote twice, but I might reverse my opinion as situation develops.

If Reds march on PAD later today - they must be stopped, by force if necessary, but it still doesn't warrant a coup.

[cmsally]

Any outcome that does not punish the PAD is setting a very dangerous precedent for Thai politics. This precedent can work both ways/ both sides in the future.

This will be the factor that drives away foreign investment and tourism.

[favre360]

An exclusive video from thaksin

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Thai politicans need some serious public speaking classes.

[animatic]

Any outcome that does not punish the PAD is setting a very dangerous precedent for Thai politics. This precedent can work both ways/ both sides in the future.

This will be the factor that drives away foreign investment and tourism.

This will be A factor but not THE factor.

Certainly there needs to be some reconning for PAD leaders,

if not the quiotidien followers. I think they expect that.

And in classic Thai style once things cool, they will be released

and go back to a quiet life.

Allowing the Reds to march on PAD and cause a conflagration at the airport,

will erase the last vestiges of both government legitimacy to rule, and civility.

And be the first blow in a protracted north/south civil war.

The precident of TRT is that Yungyuth will take down PPP also.

Edited November 30, 2008 by animatic

[Bangyai]

If a coup is executed then it will be the Thaksin gang that are eliminated.

I just cast my vote for "no coup" - it seems that a couple more days until PPP is dissolved is a lot lot better option.

I can't vote twice, but I might reverse my opinion as situation develops.

If Reds march on PAD later today - they must be stopped, by force if necessary, but it still doesn't warrant a coup.

Not much incentive for the police to use force. They tried that once and it landed them in hot water. If its wrong to use force ( PAD view ) then its wrong to use force.

Edited November 30, 2008 by Bangyai

[jdinasia]

If a coup is executed then it will be the Thaksin gang that are eliminated.

I just cast my vote for "no coup" - it seems that a couple more days until PPP is dissolved is a lot lot better option.

I can't vote twice, but I might reverse my opinion as situation develops.

If Reds march on PAD later today - they must be stopped, by force if necessary, but it still doesn't warrant a coup.

Not much incentive for the police to use force. They tried that once and it landed them in hot water. If its wrong to use force ( PAD view ) then its wrong to use force.

BangYai --- think that through ......

Oct 7th ... nobody threatening violence and the police open concentrated fire with RDX laden military ordinance in a way not allowing for the crowd to disperse.

Today if the UDD marches on the PAD it is only with violence in mind, remember they were trained by the bomb lobbing Sae Daeng. Oh wait ... admitting that the circumstances are different would not work for you would it?

Doesn't much matter though as it won't be the police that prevent violence --- it will be the 17 units of the army

[grandpops]

An exclusive video from thaksin

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...........................

Thai politicans need some serious public speaking classes.

Well perhaps a some great intellect on here can post on you tube a full translation in Thai language. No?

Can you make that full speach in Thai. No

[grandpops]

The government was elected democratically by the people to represent them. A minority in Bangkok don't like the results and are trying to "fix it" so that the results are what they want rather than what the majority want. That is not democracy.

IMHO, the government should move the capital to some other city, anyway. This fiasco is proof that there is just too much "stuff" [insert alternative word] in one city. Leave Bangkok as the center for commerce. Move the seat of power elsewhere (Khorat or Khon Khaen would be my choice, personally).

Doing it under this administration would also create jobs when and where they are most needed.

not again that nonsense!!

The 3 biggest parties get dissolved on December 15 because of their massive vote buying. So they are NOT democratic elected.

h90 ,

First the courts had NO judicial support in the Thai constitution to make "parties get dissolved,because of their massive vote buying".

1) They did'nt let the commission finnish it's investigation.

2) They had no REAL authority as they were placed there by "None Legitimate"means.The Army Junta!

3) Before the Army Junta Fiddled with the Constitution there was NO SUCH "Law".It is all Hokus Pokus.

(If not the Law and Constitution or People, Who Controls The Army? And the Courts?)

Like in Western democracies, a party cannot be held collectively accountable for what some members and or employees do.

That said INDIVIDUAL politician can be prosecuted and MUST be removed and replaced by the Party involved! That was the constutition.

They just don;'t get it because they don;t want to.

If Sondhi says it, they believe it. They are incapable of checking the appointment dates and the appointees of this elitist Court.

Its an attack on the poor and any supported of the PAD is an enemy of Democracy. No argument about that outside of ASTV.

[Bangyai]

If a coup is executed then it will be the Thaksin gang that are eliminated.

I just cast my vote for "no coup" - it seems that a couple more days until PPP is dissolved is a lot lot better option.

I can't vote twice, but I might reverse my opinion as situation develops.

If Reds march on PAD later today - they must be stopped, by force if necessary, but it still doesn't warrant a coup.

Not much incentive for the police to use force. They tried that once and it landed them in hot water. If its wrong to use force ( PAD view ) then its wrong to use force.

BangYai --- think that through ......

Oct 7th ... nobody threatening violence and the police open concentrated fire with RDX laden military ordinance in a way not allowing for the crowd to disperse.

Today if the UDD marches on the PAD it is only with violence in mind, remember they were trained by the bomb lobbing Sae Daeng. Oh wait ... admitting that the circumstances are different would not work for you would it?

Doesn't much matter though as it won't be the police that prevent violence --- it will be the 17 units of the army

You have not understood my post at all. The police have been strongly criticised for using force to keep the PAD away from parliment. If the PAD had not attempted to move forward against the police lines there would have been no confrontation.

Now if the UDD move forward against the police lines you are prepared to condone force in stopping them. Hypocritical JD, and you know it. The adverage policeman must be thinking :

" <deleted> to this, let them get on with it. "

However, the PAD could just leave, then there will be no confrontation. If the PAD have the right to demonstrate against the govournment then you have to agree that the UDD have the right to protest for the govournment. As for violence, I personaly deplore it but both sides have been guity of it and it is likely to increase if both parties refuse to compromise.

Edited November 30, 2008 by Bangyai

[hawker9000]

Here is a classic from the Nation:

PM has no schedule to return to Bangkok, apparently fearing coup: spokeswoman

Rest of story at: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30089674

It seems we truly have a government in hiding as the endgame nears.

i hope this time the coup makers will have some balls to do the cleanup they should have done 2 years ago.

the 1996 coup was made by little girls, all the TRT execs should have been thrown to jail for at least 5 years and we would not be where we are now.

It's been clear the army doesn't want to conduct a coup because of the bloodshed that would occur.

However, no one is in charge. The elites, anyway, always have run Thailand. If Thaksin is allowed to return, there will be the People's Republic of Thailand elite.

Thais don't care about world opinion. They only care which elite is in power.

The coup would insure that the PRT elites disappear once and for all.

Messy, yes.

So be it.

Nope - it's because thy don't NEED to. Game's over. Most folks just don't know it.

[jdinasia]

You have not understood my post at all. The police have been strongly criticised for using force to keep the PAD away from parliment. If the PAD had not attempted to move forward against the police lines there would have been no confrontation.

Now if the UDD move forward against the police lines you are prepared to condone force in stopping them. Hypocritical JD, and you know it. The adverage policeman must be thinking :

" <deleted> to this, let them get on with it. "

However, the PAD could just leave, then there will be no confrontation. If the PAD have the right to demonstrate against the govournment then you have to agree that the UDD have the right to protest for the govournment. As for violence, I personaly deplore it but both sides have been guity of it and it is likely to increase if both parties refuse to compromise.

No BangYai --- no hypocrisy at all. Preventing one group from attacking another would be their job ... and the PAD did not move up against police lines. They already had barriers set up and you know it BangYai. The police were told by politicians to push them back.

[Bangyai]

You have not understood my post at all. The police have been strongly criticised for using force to keep the PAD away from parliment. If the PAD had not attempted to move forward against the police lines there would have been no confrontation.

Now if the UDD move forward against the police lines you are prepared to condone force in stopping them. Hypocritical JD, and you know it. The adverage policeman must be thinking :

" <deleted> to this, let them get on with it. "

However, the PAD could just leave, then there will be no confrontation. If the PAD have the right to demonstrate against the govournment then you have to agree that the UDD have the right to protest for the govournment. As for violence, I personaly deplore it but both sides have been guity of it and it is likely to increase if both parties refuse to compromise.

No BangYai --- no hypocrisy at all. Preventing one group from attacking another would be their job ... and the PAD did not move up against police lines. They already had barriers set up and you know it BangYai. The police were told by politicians to push them back.

Then once again we shall have to agree to disagree.......add infinitum. Only time will tell how this will play out. Either way...I see no winners. Any predictions for tomorrows headlines ?

[jdinasia]

BangYai --- yeah I know .. I stick as close to the facts as possible (I have made errors .. and will likely do so in the future). While others just push drama.

[Bangyai]

I have made errors .. and will likely do so in the future.

At last we agree on something

[easybullet3]

But Somchai went on TV late Wednesday to announce that his government would not either resign or dissolve the House.

-- The Nation 2008-11-27

this is crazy!! the prime minister is nuts!!

step down and its all over! thailand can return to normal!!

the longer he stays in, the worse it is for thailand.

staying in power is proof he doesnt care about the country,,,, he only cares about himself!