State Of Emergency Declared

[Steve2UK]

Face it, both sides pay for votes and support.

I agree

hmmmmm seems to be wishful thinking on Rainman's part ....

The Demos have never been caught in any organised vote buying have they? There are some reports of protesters being paid on the PAD side (far from being the same thing as vote buying) but strangely those reports only come from people that are ANTI-PAD. They never appear in the Thai press etc ... why is that?

Aw, c'mon JD - this is a bit desperate on your part........ I know from my Thai partner that the Dems were as active in vote-buying as the PPP in at least one district of Mae Hong Son (cheap there - both the main parties were paying just Bt100 a head). Far from wishful thinking on Rainman's part.

I have no axe to grind for either side in the current stand-off but, given the (to put it gently) selection/editing of facts demonstrated by a number of contributors to these threads............ do you really expect the pro-PAD zealots on here to admit it if they knew of it? Naivety or sophistry on your part?

Edit:

Quick Google and what do I find?

Democrat's Ratchaburi candidate out of race for 2001 offence

Democrat candidate Boonmak Sirinavakul yesterday lowered the curtain on his political career after a high court ruling banned him from elections for 10 years for a vote-buying conviction in 2001.

Yesterday's ruling effectively disqualified Boonmak from the race in Ratchaburi constituency 2. "This is the end for me. From now on I will go back to teaching," Boonmak said. He was a university lecturer before entering politics.

Boonmak said he was grateful to his constituents and the Democrat Party for their support throughout the lengthy litigation.

Four years ago, the Election Commission red-carded him after a sting operation to link him to vote buying. Two electoral officials testified as eye witnesses to a transaction that two constituents received Bt1,000 in cash from him.

The defence contended the charges were a frame-up. The lower court and the appellate review ruled in favour of the defence in 2004 and 2005. But the Supreme Court overturned both decisions after reviewing prosecution evidence linking Boonmak to the cash.

In addition to the ban, Boonmak was given a two-year suspended jail term and fined Bt20,000.

The Nation December 14, 2007

Edited November 30, 2008 by Steve2UK

[jdinasia]

No I expect it to be exposed by the EC if it is actually happening ...(vote-buying by the Demos)

or the Thai Press to at least mention it -- PAD

[hammered]

This state of emergency is looking as farcical as samak's one

[Lockstock]

I have just been listening to a British tourist trying to get home as she gave a telephone interview from Bangkok. She quoted an Embassy source as saying that "the airport will not be open for weeks".

Does this look likely to those of you on the ground?

Was due to fly out with family to visit family on 6/12. Now trying to push tickets back to 20/12.

Hope that's far enough back

[Steve2UK]

No I expect it to be exposed by the EC if it is actually happening ...(vote-buying by the Demos)

See the post-edit addition to my post above.

[JacknDanny]

I have just been listening to a British tourist trying to get home as she gave a telephone interview from Bangkok. She quoted an Embassy source as saying that "the airport will not be open for weeks".

Does this look likely to those of you on the ground?

Was due to fly out with family to visit family on 6/12. Now trying to push tickets back to 20/12.

Hope that's far enough back

My mother in UK heard the same report. She is panicking as she flies over here on 20th Dec.

Told her not to worry as I believe the airport will be reopened this week

I am sure there will be continuing problems, but not enough to affect someone coming here on holiday

[jdinasia]

No I expect it to be exposed by the EC if it is actually happening ...(vote-buying by the Demos)

See the post-edit addition to my post above.

Single offense in 2001 ... anything to show that the whole party did not learn from that? The thing is when you talk about massive vote buying from a "slush fund" and an individual's stupidity ...

[permanent_disorder]

No I expect it to be exposed by the EC if it is actually happening ...(vote-buying by the Demos)

See the post-edit addition to my post above.

Single offense in 2001 ... anything to show that the whole party did not learn from that? The thing is when you talk about massive vote buying from a "slush fund" and an individual's stupidity ...

"EC members said Suthat Jansaengsi, a winning candidate for the Democrat Party in Phetchabun's constituency 1, avoided a red card by one vote, so he - and all other recipients of yellow cards - would be able to stand again in re-run ballots.

Commissioner Somchai Jungprasert said the EC's rule was they only issue a red card if four of the five members support a winner being disqualified."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/01/08...cs_30061481.php

[trackx]

I m very sad about the last days event in thailand... i hope they can find an agreement in peacefull...

My wife doesn't see his familly since 2 years and we have a son (baby) that we must presented to his familly for the first time...

We had planned to go in thailand the 15 january for 5 weeks...

I hope that the situtation becomes more normal... and the planes continue to offer their services to Thailand

But as promise to my wife we never cancel all booking (plane, hotel,car...) such as other tourist have allready done...

The crisis in thailand affect principaly the area of bangkok... if the toursits have affraid they can avoid bangkok in the future but cancel or boicot their holliday is a stupid thing.. and very bad for Thai people that many jobs and economy depedends about that.

[GlenOrd]

Face it, both sides pay for votes and support.

I agree

hmmmmm seems to be wishful thinking on Rainman's part ....

The Demos have never been caught in any organised vote buying have they? There are some reports of protesters being paid on the PAD side (far from being the same thing as vote buying) but strangely those reports only come from people that are ANTI-PAD. They never appear in the Thai press etc ... why is that?

Simply, Thai press is censored and controlled.

[Steve2UK]

No I expect it to be exposed by the EC if it is actually happening ...(vote-buying by the Demos)

See the post-edit addition to my post above.

Single offense in 2001 ... anything to show that the whole party did not learn from that? The thing is when you talk about massive vote buying from a "slush fund" and an individual's stupidity ...

"The Demos have never been caught in any organised vote buying have they?"

"No I expect it to be exposed by the EC if it is actually happening"

"anything to show that the whole party did not learn from that?" . Well, maybe the fact that (at least) one of their candidates was still doing it in 2007 - sorry I don't have more Thai partners to come up with more examples.

OK, JD - I give up. Head in the sand is one thing, but putting blinkers on first.......... ?

[jdinasia]

Face it, both sides pay for votes and support.

I agree

hmmmmm seems to be wishful thinking on Rainman's part ....

The Demos have never been caught in any organised vote buying have they? There are some reports of protesters being paid on the PAD side (far from being the same thing as vote buying) but strangely those reports only come from people that are ANTI-PAD. They never appear in the Thai press etc ... why is that?

Simply, Thai press is censored and controlled.

GlenOrd ---- much of the Thai media is owned by the Gov't. It would be in the Gov't's best interest to harp on about 'paid protesters' and not to let it drop ... yet they NEVER mention it. No reason to censor that at all is there?

[GlenOrd]

Face it, both sides pay for votes and support.

I agree

hmmmmm seems to be wishful thinking on Rainman's part ....

The Demos have never been caught in any organised vote buying have they? There are some reports of protesters being paid on the PAD side (far from being the same thing as vote buying) but strangely those reports only come from people that are ANTI-PAD. They never appear in the Thai press etc ... why is that?

Aw, c'mon JD - this is a bit desperate on your part........ I know from my Thai partner that the Dems were as active in vote-buying as the PPP in at least one district of Mae Hong Son (cheap there - both the main parties were paying just Bt100 a head). Far from wishful thinking on Rainman's part.

I have no axe to grind for either side in the current stand-off but, given the (to put it gently) selection/editing of facts demonstrated by a number of contributors to these threads............ do you really expect the pro-PAD zealots on here to admit it if they knew of it? Naivety or sophistry on your part?

Edit:

Quick Google and what do I find?

Democrat's Ratchaburi candidate out of race for 2001 offence

Democrat candidate Boonmak Sirinavakul yesterday lowered the curtain on his political career after a high court ruling banned him from elections for 10 years for a vote-buying conviction in 2001.

Yesterday's ruling effectively disqualified Boonmak from the race in Ratchaburi constituency 2. "This is the end for me. From now on I will go back to teaching," Boonmak said. He was a university lecturer before entering politics.

Boonmak said he was grateful to his constituents and the Democrat Party for their support throughout the lengthy litigation.

Four years ago, the Election Commission red-carded him after a sting operation to link him to vote buying. Two electoral officials testified as eye witnesses to a transaction that two constituents received Bt1,000 in cash from him.

The defence contended the charges were a frame-up. The lower court and the appellate review ruled in favour of the defence in 2004 and 2005. But the Supreme Court overturned both decisions after reviewing prosecution evidence linking Boonmak to the cash.

In addition to the ban, Boonmak was given a two-year suspended jail term and fined Bt20,000.

The Nation December 14, 2007

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/12/14...cs_30059067.php

Here is the link from Nation. One of the 2 biggest English media in Thailand.

[permanent_disorder]

there are already a lot dead people for sure 20 or more....

don't forget to count all the braindead ones, must be hundreds of thousands.

[yadetout]

new videos here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Chaos-Bangkok-t225194.html

[GlenOrd]

Chamlong says crisis will end before Dec 5

The Nation Nov 29 (approx 12 noon)

Chamlong Srimaung, a co-leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy, said Saturday that the political crisis would end before Friday.

He said he was willing to hold talk with Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat anywhere except Chiang Mai because it is too far away.

1. PAD say that political crisis will end bfore Friday. No point for the police to move in now. Protesters will move out of airport by Friday anyway.

2. Too far away? What a stupid excuse. If the airport is not closed, it is only 1 hr away. The real reason is the Somchai is controlling CM, while Chamlong is controlling BKK.

[Steve2UK]

GlenOrd - you and I are just wasting bandwidth......... their minds are made up. You see, it's so-o-o-o-o long ago and was only one case......... so (presumably?) not "organised" enough to count.

Say after me: "the Democrats are the unique exception in Thai politics - squeaky clean and never (well, hardly ever) indulge in vote-buying".

Got it now?

[filingaccount]

Let us stop pretending that Thailand is not corrupt. (For those lazy out there. Red is corrupt, darker red is more corrupt.)

However, Thailand is far from the only country severely corrupted.

Edited November 30, 2008 by filingaccount

[GlenOrd]

Some posters have advocated violently ejecting protestors from the airport because, they say, PAD protestors are aware of the danger they are facing and are bringing whatever consequences on themselves. I don't think that someone attending the protest for 700 baht a day, or because they have been carried away with the message coming from PAD, can be giving consent to risk their lives.

One of the moderators posted a message saying that discussion of the Royal Family is banned. Does this ban extend to respectfully asking questions?

YES

[GlenOrd]

GlenOrd - you and I are just wasting bandwidth......... their minds are made up. You see, it's so-o-o-o-o long ago and was only one case......... so (presumably?) not "organised" enough to count.

Say after me: "the Democrats are the unique exception in Thai politics - squeaky clean and never (well, hardly ever) indulge in vote-buying".

Got it now?

The Democrats are the unique exception in Thai politics - squeaky clean and never (well, hardly ever) indulge in vote-buying. I repeat.

[Meerkat]

People seem to forget that the 2007 elections were held with the Junta actively trying to suppress support for the PPP. They were even found guilty of doing so by the EC investigating committee, but wriggled out of a formal charge by the EC by claiming that as their dirty-tricks campaign had been drawn up under the interim constitution which gave them immunity, they couldn't be investigated. Convenient, those immunity clauses are...

Bear in mind too that many (mostly historically pro-TRT) provinces were still kept under martial law during the campaigning process, and campaigning itself had new – severely limiting – restrictions put upon the process; restrictions that garnered scorn from international observers.

A couple of links – there are plenty more out there, including extracts from the campaign document itself detailing how the anti-PPP smear campaign should operate.

Were it possible for totally clean elections to be held tomorrow (or back in '07 - or even '06 for that matter), free of vote-buying or government interference, it would be a brave person who put money against the TRT or a reincarnation of it getting in.

I should say (not for the first time) that IMO politicians found guilty of vote-buying should be banned for a long time (if not for life). A healthy jail term would be an added bonus too. The banning of an entire political party on the back of one executive however is collective punishment (against not only the other MPs but also against those that freely voted for them) and wrong.

[tig28]

No I expect it to be exposed by the EC if it is actually happening ...(vote-buying by the Demos)

or the Thai Press to at least mention it -- PAD

jd --- a question: If the by-elections (obviously under strict scrutiny) for the constituencies where there were red/yellow cards handed out ---- resulted in unaltered results ---- what would that say about the theory that the overall result was invalid due to this "vote buying?"

The reason I ask is that I have checked 7 such results (4 PPP--- 3 Puea Pandin) and this was the case in ALL I checked.

[permanent_disorder]

If there wasn't massive vote buying, the Election Commission wouldn't have stepped in and the Constitutional Court wouldn't have accepted and start the trial. There is not any court which will just accept any trial without an bunch of evidence for to prove the legality of that trial. Not around the world and even not in Thailand.

If that isn't enough for you a democratic thinking human (are you?) you can get the prove you're looking for, just wait for the Court Verdict.

Well obviously Reimar there was vote buying --- (not too happy with "MASSIVE" --- but that's you) the celebrated case of Yongyuth Tiyapairat has received much deserved media attention--- it could, after all, cause the dissolution of the PPP. In the Chiang Rai election of his sister La-ong Tiyapairat--- he was convicted of corrupt practice --- paying 10 officials.

RESULT: Yongyuth Tiyapairat (at various times -- deputy of PPP---house speaker and "assassin of refrigerators")

was"red carded' --- resulting in a 5 year political ban

---- and leading directly to the current threat hanging over the PPP.

His sister La-ong was "yellow carded" --- the election invalidated and a by election was called.

What does not seem to have received much publicity is the result of that by election ---- perhaps important as it was the most closely scrutinized election in Thailand ----- certainly little chance of vote buying here!!

RESULT (97%) of BY ELECTION:

People Power party (PPP) Ms La-ong ----- 69,561 votes

Democrat candidate Kittipong Namwong -- 19,314 votes.

(Ballot boxes from a few polling units located in hilly areas were still on their

way to the tally room, slowed by pounding rains in the evening.)

It seems that in this electorate that the "corruption" (captured on video in a 'sting" operation--- by the way) certainly did not change the outcome much. As you choose to claim MASSIVE vote buying ---- and obviously in these cases you refer to there must have been a by-election--- I would be interested to learn the new outcomes ---- how the overall election was (almost) distorted by the cases you claim. By the way --- how many cases add up to MASSIVE in your mind??

I raise this point as so many ridiculously broad assumptions are being made ---(perhaps without foundation ???) --- it is interesting to actually look at some facts --- not fantasies.

It is pretty obvious that Yongyuth Tiyapairat is guilty as charged.

thank you tig28 for stepping in and grill a little bit more. but i guess we will not get an answer.

it's a little bit disappointing to have a lot of 'experts' in a forum who make their claims in big words and when you ask them about comes nothing. or only an unfriendly answer.

[Guest Reimar]

Air Force chief repeats call for Govt to dissolve House

Air Force Commander-in-Chief ACM Itthaporn Supawong Sunday repeated the military's call for Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat to dissolve the House.

He said the call was agreed upon during a meeting of the situation monitoring committee and agreed by heads of government agencies, academics and representatives of the private sector.

The Air Force chief said the government had nothing to fear because it could win the next election again.

The Nation

[sriracha john]

So how's that State of Emergency working for Somchai?. I've been away for the past 2 days.

[JacknDanny]

So how's that State of Emergency working for Somchai?. I've been away for the past 2 days.

[Steve2UK]

Apologies if this has already appeared on here and I missed it - but it's a welcome moment of farce amid all the agony we're witnessing...............

PAD vehicles not allowed to use expressway without paying fees

Several vehicles of the People's Alliance for Democracy caused traffic snarls in front of the Yommaraj gate of the expressway after the protesters refused to pay toll for using the expressway.

By 5 am, the protesters failed to negotiate the expressway officials to allow them to pass the tollgate without paying.

The Nation

I guess those ladies & gents in the tollbooths are a bit tougher than Bangkok's reluctant finest?

[Mosha]

Rumour has it he is missing the good old southern coooking. He is from Nakhon 'Sri Thammerat after all.

Edited November 30, 2008 by Mosha

[jdinasia]

So how's that State of Emergency working for Somchai?. I've been away for the past 2 days.

Going GREAT! ..Somchai is up north somewhere (not sure on which side of what border) and the AirForce cheif is calling for the gov't to step aside!

[Steve2UK]

thank you tig28 for stepping in and grill a little bit more. but i guess we will not get an answer.

it's a little bit disappointing to have a lot of 'experts' in a forum who make their claims in big words and when you ask them about comes nothing. or only an unfriendly answer.

I've noticed that, too............... Always a problem when some inconvenient facts get in the way of a good sales pitch.