Has Your Opinion Of The Pad Changed Recently

[mistresserika]

Agreed, not enough opinions.

As a non Thai, I cannot vote, so my views would not be the same.

[ChiangMaiThai]

I'm no guest. No one invited me. I've paid my way for eleven years now.

Of course, in a buddhist sense, we are all (Thais and farangs, right-wing elitist PAD members and poor) guests just passing through.

I've paid my way for 8 years now. And I'm a guest. Are you a Thai citizen? If not, then sorry, you are a guest. If you are a Thai citizen, then you of course have inherited the right to live here. Only then can you say you are not a guest.

I agree that its healthy to have an interest in the world. I just think that if the Thai people at the top and in the know read most of our comments and proposed solutions, they would likely laugh at our naivety. I think there is much, much more going on here then a group of people shutting down an airport. And the solution is clearly much more complicated than sending in police and military to clear them out.

[chutai]

I'm no guest. No one invited me. I've paid my way for eleven years now.

Of course, in a buddhist sense, we are all (Thais and farangs, right-wing elitist PAD members and poor) guests just passing through.

The inter-connectedness and inter- relatedness of all phenomena.

[LaoPo]

That's not quite fair. We Brits, in particularly, have always taken an interest in the wider world beyond our own country, and especially one that we have a genuine interest in.

...Oh......nobody will disagree here, especially if you're talking colonies.....

Thanks for the laugh.

LaoPo

[PeaceBlondie]

No matter what our official status is here, we can blather on ThaiVisa with our opinions.

I was initially in favor of PAD because they were acting nonviolently. I did not notice that its leader was on such a personal tirade, and misleading people. 700 km away, I did not care much about his disruptions in BKK. When the nonviolent facade was punctured by their armed self defense against being attacked, that was not surprising.

The airports takeovers have shown Mr. Sondhi to be an uncaring fanatic who is willing to lead his faithful followers into a suicidal Jonestown bloodbath. Or, he wishes to deface Thailand out of his vengeance toward Taksin. So my opinion changed when I saw how careless the PAD leadership is about Thais and Thailand.

[Xangsamhua]

The airports takeovers have shown Mr. Sondhi to be an uncaring fanatic who is willing to lead his faithful followers into a suicidal Jonestown bloodbath.

I sincerely hope you're wrong about this, PB. Sondhi isn't the only leader of PAD. He seems to be the best informed, but Chamlong would be the overall leader, I think. Chamlong has said that he doesn't want to see more PAD people being killed or injured. In fact, he said a week or so ago that it might be better give up the struggle than to have bloodshed. (Still, if the vampires get total control it won't be pretty.)

[siam4ever]

The PAD needs blood to survive. Their ideology has been nonsensical and now their tactics are seen as deplorable. Their only trump card is the threat of violence and threats must become a reality sooner or later.

[Xangsamhua]

The PAD needs blood to survive. Their ideology has been nonsensical and now their tactics are seen as deplorable. Their only trump card is the threat of violence and threats must become a reality sooner or later.

Do they want to survive? If the Thaksin influence over Thai government is neutralised their job is done. What is their role after that?

[PeaceBlondie]

The PAD needs blood to survive. Their ideology has been nonsensical and now their tactics are seen as deplorable. Their only trump card is the threat of violence and threats must become a reality sooner or later.

Do they want to survive? If the Thaksin influence over Thai government is neutralised their job is done. What is their role after that?

They should be careful what they wish for. Thanks for reminding me that Sondhi is not the only main leader of PAD. They may not be wanting a suicidal bloodbath, but they might get it, and surely most of us do not want that.

[tig28]

This coalition government was elected, but the democratic process has failed for the moment in Thailand, as it failed in Germany in the 30s. It was hijacked by ideological fanatics there; it's been hijacked by cynical self-serving interests here. PAD represents people who believe that's no longer acceptable.

It is ironic that you select HITLER and the rise to power of his NAZI party in Germany in 1932/3 to make your point. The similarities between what is happening here with PAD and with the NAZI PARTY in 1932 are remarkable.

On April 19, 1932, the runoff results were: Hindenburg 53.0 percent

Hitler 36.8 percent

Thaelmann 10.2 percent

Thus, even though Hitler's vote total had risen, he still had been decisively rejected by the German people.

Hitler and his fellow members of the National Socialist (Nazi) Party, who were determined to bring down the republic and establish dictatorial rule in Germany, did everything they could to create chaos in the streets, including initiating political violence and murder. The situation got so bad that martial law was proclaimed in Berlin.

Even though Hitler had badly lost the presidential election, he was drawing ever-larger crowds during the congressional election. As Shirer points out,

"In one day, July 27, he spoke to 60,000 persons in Brandenburg, to nearly as many in Potsdam, and that evening to 120,000 massed in the giant Grunewald Stadium in Berlin while outside an additional 100,000 heard his voice by loudspeaker."

Political deadlocks in the Reichstag soon brought a new election, this one in November 6, 1932. In that election, the Nazis lost two million votes and 34 seats, it had clearly lost ground among the voters. Attempting to remedy the chaos and the deadlocks, Hindenburg fired Papen and appointed an army general named Kurt von Schleicher as the new German chancellor. Unable to secure a majority coalition in the Reichstag, however, Schleicher finally tendered his resignation to Hindenburg, 57 days after he had been appointed.

On January 30, 1933, President Hindenburg appointed Adolf Hitler chancellor of Germany. Although the National Socialists never captured more than 37 percent of the national vote, and even though they still held a minority of cabinet posts and fewer than 50 percent of the seats in the Reichstag, Hitler and the Nazis set out to to consolidate their power. With Hitler as chancellor, that proved to be a fairly easy task.

Xangsamhua ---- Sounds familiar doesn't it ????? You could almost replace the European names with THAI ones----no?

Which group sounds most like PAD??

[Insight]

I don't support the "New Politics" ideology of the PAD by any means, nor do I support taking over the airport. I do however support the goal the Thaksin influence from Thailand, and I'd stick a pretty big wager on "New Politics" fading out once this is achieved, if ever.

[geriatrickid]

I like them, I hope they march past Nana again, it was fun

As we learn to repair brain injuries, we will no longer be able to use the traditional brain death definitions.

Brilliant.

[jdinasia]

No matter what our official status is here, we can blather on ThaiVisa with our opinions.

I was initially in favor of PAD because they were acting nonviolently. I did not notice that its leader was on such a personal tirade, and misleading people. 700 km away, I did not care much about his disruptions in BKK. When the nonviolent facade was punctured by their armed self defense against being attacked, that was not surprising.

The airports takeovers have shown Mr. Sondhi to be an uncaring fanatic who is willing to lead his faithful followers into a suicidal Jonestown bloodbath. Or, he wishes to deface Thailand out of his vengeance toward Taksin. So my opinion changed when I saw how careless the PAD leadership is about Thais and Thailand.

Better work on a better analogy since Jonestown wasn't a "bloodbath".

The PAD have shown themselves OVERALL to be less violent and more determined than their opposition.

[jdinasia]

Strange that about 80% don't support PAD but in another poll about 50% would support a coup.......which is what the PAD are trying to engineer as a ' plan B '

To be fair the there was about 400 more who had voted in that poll. But that's not to say that some learn more slowly than others and may have now changed their minds.

like what "terrorism" is?

If you like. A whole nation held to ransom by a few is the same thing as a form of terrorism in my book. Or don't you agree ?

LOL ... obviously not. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the difference between civil (or almost ) disobedience and terrorism ...

Terrorism is what the opposition has used .. launching grenades, using military ordinance with RDX, threatening more bombings daily. etc

[Ulysses G.]

The PAD have shown themselves OVERALL to be less violent and more determined than their opposition.

The PAD have shown themselves to be selfish, stubborn and every bit as violent as their enemy.

The TV footage of the firing pistols indiscriminately into a crowd pretty much said it all.

[jdinasia]

The PAD have shown themselves OVERALL to be less violent and more determined than their opposition.

The PAD have shown themselves to be selfish, stubborn and every bit as violent as their enemy.

The TV footage of the firing pistols indiscriminately into a crowd pretty much said it all.

Which footage is that? I see someone shooting in a video .. but not into a crowd. It was also reported that they show AFTER they were attacked by taxi drivers lobbing things at them. They should however be found and charged if appropriate under Thai law.

Every bit as violent? LOL I love hyperbole --- they haven't been seen to go out and attack people even though they have been attacked AND bombed and .... The fact that they haven't as a rule responded by seeking out those attacking them pretty much says it all!

[Ulysses G.]

Which footage is that? I see someone shooting in a video .. but not into a crowd.

Oh, that's OK then. They must be the good guys!

[Sarge]

Which footage is that? I see someone shooting in a video .. but not into a crowd. It was also reported that they show AFTER they were attacked by taxi drivers lobbing things at them. They should however be found and charged if appropriate under Thai law.

Every bit as violent? LOL I love hyperbole --- they haven't been seen to go out and attack people .....

I guess these criminals were practising clay shooting for the next Olympic Games

Q. if in America, an unlawful, violent movement, led by a convicted criminal with a personal grudge against the elected President, stormed the White House, major airports LAX, IAD, JFK plus blockading major motorways nationwide, what would be the reaction (by the authorities, law enforcement agencies, media and public at large)?

Finally would you publicly support (in US) that movement, defending their criminal action?

[LaoPo]

Sondhi isn't the only leader of PAD. He seems to be the best informed, but Chamlong would be the overall leader, I think. Chamlong has said that he doesn't want to see more PAD people being killed or injured. In fact, he said a week or so ago that it might be better give up the struggle than to have bloodshed. (Still, if the vampires get total control it won't be pretty.)

You see Xangsamhua, that's the brilliantness of Sondhi; of course he's no longer the only leader but believe me, he IS the man on top and HE makes the final decisions and is steering his co-leaders. Sondhi, after all, was the founder of PAD.

Chamlong, or rather, Major General Chamlong Srimuang, is a very controversial figure especially in his past when he belonged to the so called 'Young Turks'.

However, I do -more or less- believe in the peacefulness and sincere feelings about Thailand and the Thai of Chamlong but I'm afraid he was lured by Sondhi.

Apart from that, Sondhi is the man with -financial- elite connections and possible secret sponsors (or what's left of that).

I think Chamlong maybe well informed, but it remains to be seen if his connections are still so high up as in his old days when he served as secretary (a very powerful position) under his mentor General Prem Tinsulanonda who is (STILL, at 88!) the closest man to the absolute top in the country. But General Prem and Chamlong split up because of controversies.

Chamlong might be in name the leader in charge with PAD and said that he is willing to negotiate (just today) with PM Somchai -but not in Chiang Mai as that would be too far for him- but he is not the most powerful man within PAD to make decisions on his own.

LaoPo

[dave111223]

I wonder who's motorbikes they are smashing up.

[JimsKnight]

I could have sworn this forum was full of PAD faithful. I wonder where they went?

Could it be that it was only a very noisy few who suddenly have the good sense to lay low, now that the PAD's brilliant plan is in the full light of day.

Whoops that didn't go so well eh?

I imagine a group of guys with their hands in their pockets whistling and trying not to make eye contact, maybe kicking a stone or two.

While not supportive of all efforts by PAD, but speaking for myself as generally a PAD supporter, I've just found that the number of flaming trolls that have over-run the forum and taxed the limits of moderators to be detrimental to forum. Since I seem to be a target of these multi-ID'ers and trolls with their flaming posts (including in this thread), I'll help ease the burden they place on the mods by laying off a smidgen so as to not wear out the mod's delete button.

I know what you mean, the TRT / PPP faithful overran this forum a good few years back alas.

Anything the PAD does to try and get rid of the tyrants currently running the show is met with a wall of them.

Yet suggest gunning down or actually destroying the PAD you will be met with cheers and back-slapping!

Desperate measures and a dangerous government need a similar solution, hence the new gambit by the PAD.

The PPP won't be able to leave power by a normal way.

All the bluster and bravado by the tourism boys and affliliates need to understand the tourism in not the be-all and end all. Life goes on without tourism if need be

[jdinasia]

Which footage is that? I see someone shooting in a video .. but not into a crowd.

Oh, that's OK then. They must be the good guys!

after being attacked

[Bangyai]

Strange that about 80% don't support PAD but in another poll about 50% would support a coup.......which is what the PAD are trying to engineer as a ' plan B '

To be fair the there was about 400 more who had voted in that poll. But that's not to say that some learn more slowly than others and may have now changed their minds.

like what "terrorism" is?

If you like. A whole nation held to ransom by a few is the same thing as a form of terrorism in my book. Or don't you agree ?

LOL ... obviously not. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the difference between civil (or almost ) disobedience and terrorism ...

Terrorism is what the opposition has used .. launching grenades, using military ordinance with RDX, threatening more bombings daily. etc

So far, there has yet to be any hard evidence produced to prove who fired the grenades at PAD.However, let us assume it was a person or persons from one of the following possibilities :

1) A group that hates the PAD and wants to scare them away.

2) A mysterious 3rd force ( oooooooooo )

3) The PAD. ( so they can feign indignation and occupy the airport in retaliation )

4 ) Mary Magdellen ( animatics hypothysis ?? )

Discounting 4, on account of her not too recent demise , we are left with 3 options. People will believe what they want to and take their pick accordingly if they so desire. However, one thing seems strange to me about option 1 . A grenade launched from a grenade launcher is not a very substantial thing. Logic would suggest that if someone really hated the PAD and wanted them shifted, that someone would probably do the job properly and lob half a dozen at once into the PAD. Be thorough in otherwords.

Whereas, if it were the PAD doing the shooting so as to provide a pretext for their current mayhem, they would likely only fire one or two rounds for effect.??

Just food for thought. No need for anyone to get out of their pram.

[jdinasia]

BangYai -- again with hyperbole .... stay in your pram

one or two rounds? etc

Not to mention who announced the bomb attacks .. when they would commence and what weapons would be used? Of course it wasn't Sae Daeng!

[JoeInSurin]

Which footage is that? I see someone shooting in a video .. but not into a crowd.

Oh, that's OK then. They must be the good guys!

after being attacked

LOL!! They attacked the radio station first and then the taxi drivers tried to stop them and then got shot at. You need to think for yourself and not let the ASTV propaganda machine control you. JD do you support terrorist acts of shutting down an airport. It is OK for PAD to hate the PPP. It is not OK to take over the airport and terrorize and endanger innocent civilians. It is OK for Al Qaeda to hate western goverments. It is not OK carry out 911.

[GraemePaul]

Being a foreign national I dont have an opinion either way. I am however frustrated that there appears to be no end in sight to this and the occupation of the International Airport could drag out for months (it happened at Govenment House why not here).

My frustration is for wholly selfish reasons as my fiancee is due to fly out in just under 3 weeks and I am at a loss on what to do. I just pray a mutually agreeable solution is made bewteen all parties involved next week.

[Ulysses G.]

I know what you mean, the TRT / PPP faithful overran this forum a good few years back alas.

Funny, I remember the exact opposite.

I've been surprised how many foreigners have finally become fed up with the PAD's antics. I guess that they have caused so much inconvenience for everybody that they don't have many fans left.

[Bangyai]

BangYai -- again with hyperbole .... stay in your pram

one or two rounds? etc

Not to mention who announced the bomb attacks .. when they would commence and what weapons would be used? Of course it wasn't Sae Daeng!

Hardly hyperbole JD ?? Speculation, yes.....but that is what everybody else is doing including yourself, unless you have the hard evidence to support your claim that it is indeed miscreants from group 1 .

As for Sae Deng, a military man and a fruitcake. The military are known to be partial to PAD. He is nutty enough to be persuaded to ' take one for the team '. His punishment was pretty mild IMO, but I don't want to make a song and dance of it

[jdinasia]

Joe -- you have already shown me your ability to reason so many times ....

'terrorize and endanger innocent civilians' ---- I don't see any 'innocent civilians' being terrorized at the airport do you?

Al Q'aeda --- 3000+ dead on 9/11

PAD --- zero dead

GREAT comparison!

[siam4ever]

Here's some enlightening quotes from the Human Rights Watch in Bangkok. I've posted them in another thread earlier, but found them more appropriate to this thread.

"The PAD has become an armed group," Sunai said. While the group's guards are armed, most PAD members occupying the airports are not. They are a mix of middle-aged women and men, and some parents with children.

Sunai strongly criticized PAD leaders for not demanding that parents with children leave the airports, as a police move against the protesters was being prepared. "They are getting like Jim Jones," Sunai said, referring to the American religious cult leader who led more than 900 of his followers in a mass suicide in Guyana in 1978.