Pro-government Mass Rally To Be Held At Sanam Luang On Sunday

[erobando]

I totally agree with rainman. Its not PPP's fault that the Democrats cant deliver in rural areas. I doubt this airport fiasco will increase their vote the next time. They are only damaging themselves.

Dissolving the party on Tuesday wont solve anything. New bodies will take over.

Democracy is great and all that.

But this government has no control over anything.

TRT/PPP misjudged the current political reality of Thailand.

[NanLaew]

^ Hm... that's not factual, though it's a popular turn of phrase. The reality is that the discussed 'New Politics' would still require a full general election, with one person one vote, however the resulting administration would be split between directly elected representatives, and other component parties. I say this, not to support it, but to clarify that the voting principal is unchanged. Thailand had such a system before with the appointed Senate having considerable powers compared to the elective element of the system.

Regards

/edit typo//

Now come on and give us the representational split between the elected and appointed that PAD proposes. I think it's 30/70 in favour of UNELECTED no?

Not exactly democratic and just because that model was adequate for Senatorial appointments once upon a time, does not mean it's adequate for the popular electoral process.

The elitists really need to drop this 'uneducated voters' mantra and embrace them rather than alienate them further. This myth that the rural Thai people aren't mature enough to decide who they want to give their hard-earned cash too will hopefully be the first victim of the current state of affairs.

Edited November 30, 2008 by NanLaew

[NanLaew]

TRT/PPP misjudged the current political reality of Thailand.

And PAD and their advocates haven't? I am gagging to hear the reasoning behind your assertion. What is the "current political reality" here?

[dtarasin]

TRT/PPP misjudged the current political reality of Thailand.

And PAD and their advocates haven't? I am gagging to hear the reasoning behind your assertion. What is the "current political reality" here?

The "current political reality" is that their supporters are too fired up and blinded by their leaders to realize that they're just pawns, and both the PAD and the PPP should be kicked out. Stop wearing yellow. Stop wearing red. Once people are stripped of their team colors, they'll start being reasonable again.

[Harry2]

The "current political reality" is that their supporters are too fired up and blinded by their leaders to realize that they're just pawns, and both the PAD and the PPP should be kicked out. Stop wearing yellow. Stop wearing red. Once people are stripped of their team colors, they'll start being reasonable again.

The political reality is that the heroic people of the North & North East have realised they are being oppressed by a bunch of selfish, bigoted, undemocratic racists & have finally began to use an imperfect electoral system to attempt to alter that peacefully & democratically. I would see an analagous situation to the battle over the vote for black Americans - which also coincidentally explains the vile racist reaction from so many Europeans, of a certain type, to their struggle.

I will be in Chiang Mai later in the week, and look forward to making my financial contributions to them then - we need to stop racism & fascism wherever we encounter it.

[GlenOrd]

At least the UDD don't look like hypnotized housewives waiting to donate their USED tampons?

Prove is here:

Sondhi fight Thaksin with 6 used kotex. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kotex

[NanLaew]

TRT/PPP misjudged the current political reality of Thailand.

And PAD and their advocates haven't? I am gagging to hear the reasoning behind your assertion. What is the "current political reality" here?

The "current political reality" is that their supporters are too fired up and blinded by their leaders to realize that they're just pawns, and both the PAD and the PPP should be kicked out. Stop wearing yellow. Stop wearing red. Once people are stripped of their team colors, they'll start being reasonable again.

Oi! I asked erobando, not you.

(Nice theory on your color coding tho')

[NanLaew]

The political reality is that the heroic people of the North & North East have realised they are being oppressed by a bunch of selfish, bigoted, undemocratic racists & have finally began to use an imperfect electoral system to attempt to alter that peacefully & democratically. I would see an analagous situation to the battle over the vote for black Americans - which also coincidentally explains the vile racist reaction from so many Europeans, of a certain type, to their struggle.

I will be in Chiang Mai later in the week, and look forward to making my financial contributions to them then - we need to stop racism & fascism wherever we encounter it.

Last I read, Harry2 was also not erobando.

Erobando hello? Come in erobando... over?

[Jai Dee]

Yellow, red camps bring country closer to the brink

Sporadic lawlessness spreading on both sides of conflict as Thailand is named "one of most dangerous places on earth"

Sporadic mob rules have threatened to take on a far larger scale this weekend, with protesters on both sides of the political showdown showing less and less respect for the rule of law and human rights.

After the Suvarnabhumi and Don Muang airports have fallen to the yellow-shirt People's Alliance for Democracy, now the Constitution Court is in danger of being surrounded by red-shirt pro-government protesters and nobody knows what is going to happen if the court on Tuesday decides to disband three ruling parties.

Equally worrisome are minor incidents across the country. Vendors watching ASTV have been intimidated by red-shirt people. PAD protesters have fired on a reporter's car, although that was described as a mistake (the car was mistaken as that of assailants). Southern anti-government protesters have threatened to seize provincial halls in all 14 southern provinces if a crackdown was initiated against Suvarnabhumi protesters.

Prime Minister Somchai yesterday took a pilgrimage to pay respect to a Buddhist holy site in Nakhon Phanom while redshirt crowds have threatened to become vigilantes to punish yellowshirt protesters.

Somchai went to pray before the Buddha's relic at Wat Phra That Phanom, People Power Party MP Paijit Srivorakan said.

Following his visit to the temple, he would spend a night in Udon Thani where a pro-government rally took place. He is expected today to return to his temporary office in Chiang Mai.

Paijit said northeastern constituents as well as their MPs would rally to show moral support for the prime minister.

In Chiang Mai, several pickup trucks filled with progovernment crowds were driven to a number of crowded public places rousing the people to take the law into their hands and attack the yellowshirt protesters and their supporters.

In the message, people have been encouraged to identify and shut down businesses and shops run by or linked to the protesters led by The People's Alliance for Democracy.

On Friday's night, a number of redshirt men forced a noodle vendor at Nong Hoy market to close down on the ground for watching the antigovernment programmed aired by ASTV satellite station.

Between Friday and yesterday, redshirt crowds distributed flyers in English to foreign visitors criticising the seizure of two major airports at Don Mueang and Suvarnabhumi.

Speaking in the capital, Democrat Party spokesman Buranat Samutarak warned that the chance for a negotiated settlement was fast diminishing as time dragged on.

The country is heading for unprecedented violence and bloodshed, he said.

He called for Interior Minister Kowit Watana, who is in charge of crowd control, to quickly commence negotiations with the PAD before it was too late.

He went on to criticise former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra for resuming his political activities which have in turn inflamed the situation.

The situation might turn into a violent mayhem following yesterday's rally by the redshirt crowds at Sanam Luang, he said.

In Udon Thani, about 10,000 redshirt crowds rallied to support the government and safeguard Somchai during his overnight stay, organiser Kwanchai Praipana said.

Kwanchai said each northeaster constituency would mobilise about 20,000 people to rally in Bangkok on Tuesday in order to oppose the anticipated disbandment of the ruling party.

He called on the government to allow redshirt crowds to disperse the yellowshirt protesters if police failed to do their job.

Two MPs from Lop Buri, Suchart Lainamngern and Amnuay Klangpha, predicted that more than 100,000 redshirt crowds would turn out to rally by Tuesday in order to counter the PADled protests.

The PAD has, meanwhile, been mobilising the protesters from the 14 southern provinces to reinforce the antigovernment crowds at the three rally sites, Government House, Don Mueang and Suvarnabhumi.

PAD's Nakhon Si Thammarat chapter leader Osoth Suwansawaet said each local chaper was responsible for dispatching 200300 protesters daily to the three rally sites.

Osoth said PADled protesters were fully braced for crowd dispersal measures and would fight if redshirt crowds descended on them.

He threatened to seize every provincial hall and block interprovincial roads in the South if police cracked down on protesters at the two airports.

Nakhon Si Thammarat governor Panu Uthairat and his counterpart in Songkhla Sonthi Techanan said they had taken precautionary measures to preempt any attempts to blockade provincial halls.

Government spokesman Natthawut Saikua said it was evident from news clips that PADled protesters were armed and tried to attack unarmed police.

"Armed protesters should immediately stop violent attacks against the unarmed authorities," he said.

He said the prime minister and his government have remained fully functioning although the situation has to be reassessed on a daily basis.

The Tuesday's Cabinet meeting is expected to proceed but the venue has yet to be picked, he said.

The governmentsponsored meritmaking ceremony is on track for Tuesday although it is uncertain whether Prime Minister Somchai will leave Chiang Mai to personally chair the event, he said.

Somchai remains uncertain whether he can attend ceremonies relating to His Majesty's birthday, he added.

He insisted that the government refused to step down either by resigning or by House dissolution because this would tantamount to allowing the victory to the PAD.

Meanwhile, The Telegraph newspaper website, www.telegraph.co.uk, has named Thailand as one of the world's most generous countries, alongside Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya, South Africa, Jamaica, Sudan, Colombia, Haiti, Eritrea, Democratic Republic of Congo, Liberia, Pakistan, Burundi, Nigeria, Zimbabwe, India, Mexico, Isarel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories, and Lebanon.

Wrote Francisca Kellett who compiled the list:

"Major political demonstrations and a temporary state of emergency have affected both of Bangkok's airports. The area around Government House and nearby Ratchadamnoen "Nok" Road, including the area around Metropolitan Police headquarters and Parliament should be avoided. Fighting also broke out last month on the Cambodian border at Preah Vihear and tensions remain high. Civil unrest and frequent attacks continue in the southern provinces of Pattani, Yala, Narathiwat and Songkhla - the Foreign Office advises against all but essential travel to these areas."

Source: The Nation - 01 December 2008

[scratt]

The PAD wants to take away voting rights from the poor. How Democratic is that?

About as democratic as the PPP expecting to be able to buy votes, steal land, control the courts, and make it's own uneducated and corrupt officials the new ruling elite. Oh, and bring a convicted criminal back to power indefinitely... not to mention launch and support guerilla style attacks on protestors, and street vendors, businesses etc. etc. etc. and not to mention organize and fund a rally to try and intimidate the constitutional court, which is going to bring an end to PADs protests when it rules the government illegal.....

I'd say the PAD (at worst) is the lesser of two evils.

The one flaw in all your arguments is that if the police and the military are being held back by some other action / or lack of action then that itself proves that the actions of PAD are seen as being in the best interest of the country. End of story. Sorry if it costs you some money, or messes up a few holidays, or unbalances your 'chi'... at the end of the day this is about the future of a country, and it's people. So tough, get over it.

Edited December 1, 2008 by scratt

[flanker]

You make it su=ound as if PPP are the only ones that 'buy votes'-this is non-sense - 'vote buying' is a practice that is done pretty much in every rural province, my GF is from Nakon Sawan and that is not a PPP or TRT area, instead their votes are bought by one of the other parties..essentially the village head in her village tells the people who to vote for and they get some baht on top of that.. most of these people are living by subsistence, or they are peasant farmers-so whats wrong with voting for a political party that offers a little help?.. I guess they're supposed to vote for the PAD elite snobs who think everyone in the country is inferior to them, and are insisting on a system in which 30% of seats are elected and 'intelligent people'-which is them and their dictator leader-rule the entire country..

notice the PAD people never explicitly complain about 'vote-buying' thats because most of their people are doing it as well.. instead they just keep railing on whatever PM is in power that's not them.

i noticed in one picture the police wearing red armbands while attending a progovt rally, i hope either the police attack thye PAD protesters and disburse them or the military takes over..but the security forces in this country need to make a decision, either enforce law and order under the current government or the military needs to become the government again..there is no room for PAD and their sham agenda..

name 1 country in the world that has a system in which 30% of the parliament is elected and the rest of the seats are appointed by a elite group of supremacists who think they are intelligent. PAD is not a legitimate political movement.

Edited December 1, 2008 by flanker

[scratt]

I guess they're supposed to vote for the PAD elite snobs who think everyone in the country is inferior to them, and are insisting on a system in which 30% of seats are elected and 'intelligent people'-which is them and their dictator leader-rule the entire country..

Wrong. Go do some reading.

Although, frankly, I don't have a problem with the system they *used to* propose. I wish we had it in the West.

However, they abandoned that some time ago because they (unlike the PPP) do actually listen to their supporters, rather than using them like cattle.

The problem with vote buying is the people willing to pay more always win... That is not a democracy, and it needs to be stamped out. Ask anyone who cares to discuss it 'up north' and they will very openly and clearly state they vote for whomever pays more... and that is *always* PPP.

As I have said before it's much easier to buy 1 million votes at a few hundred baht each, than buying 1 million votes in Bangkok. And that a democracy it does not make.

Edited December 1, 2008 by scratt

[tropo]

Meanwhile, The Telegraph newspaper website, www.telegraph.co.uk, has named Thailand as one of the world's most generous countries, alongside Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya, South Africa, Jamaica, Sudan, Colombia, Haiti, Eritrea, Democratic Republic of Congo, Liberia, Pakistan, Burundi, Nigeria, Zimbabwe, India, Mexico, Isarel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories, and Lebanon.

An interesting typo.

[Scott]

I think it goes beyond ridiculous to think that either the red's or yellow's aren't paid mobs. Both are. I don't see people ordering food from Chester's to the yellows, or paying for water etc. Someone is funding their activities. They have a very well supported and well connected command structure in the yellows. They know how to make themselves look "good" and look peaceful. Make no mistake, if things turn ugly, they will be throwing a lot more than bags of urine at whomever gets in their way.

The red's on the other had have no command structure (to speak of). They are/will be a mob in the true sense of the word mob. If they go after anyone, it will be an absolute riot and a bloody mess.

[Bangyai]

Yellow, red camps bring country closer to the brink

Sporadic lawlessness spreading on both sides of conflict as Thailand is named "one of most dangerous places on earth"

Source: The Nation - 01 December 2008

Does this mean that on my next trip to TESCOs I have to do my shopping in a crash helmet and carry a big stick ?? On second thoughts I'll just give the mother in law a 100 baht and some dark sunglasses and let her walk in front of my trolley

[GlenOrd]

Yellow, red camps bring country closer to the brink

Sporadic lawlessness spreading on both sides of conflict as Thailand is named "one of most dangerous places on earth"

Source: The Nation - 01 December 2008

Does this mean that on my next trip to TESCOs I have to do my shopping in a crash helmet and carry a big stick ?? On second thoughts I'll just give the mother in law a 100 baht and some dark sunglasses and let her walk in front of my trolley

Just act blind, and you will be OK. I don't think Farang like us will be under attack. Stand behind them, not between them.

[Kerryd]

Great photos, really shows the difference.

Yeah, big difference.

Warm, loving people:

"Scum" according to rainman:

Warm, loving people:

"Scum" according to rainman:

Warm, loving people:

"Scum" according to rainman:

Yep, whole lot of difference between them.

[GlenOrd]

name 1 country in the world that has a system in which 30% of the parliament is elected and the rest of the seats are appointed by a elite group of supremacists who think they are intelligent. PAD is not a legitimate political movement.

So that you can sleep at night, I can name a few countries where the parliament is 100% appointed.

Brunei, Oman, Qartar, Saudi, Swaziland. Info from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...m_of_government

Edited December 1, 2008 by GlenOrd

[old wanderer]

name 1 country in the world that has a system in which 30% of the parliament is elected and the rest of the seats are appointed by a elite group of supremacists who think they are intelligent. PAD is not a legitimate political movement.

Well it seems like England for years had the House of Lords......where it was heritage that got you in......

Also you would be well to remember Thailand does not claim to be a Democracy. It is a Constitutional Monarchy.

[scratt]

Great photos, really shows the difference.

Yeah, big difference.

Warm, loving people:

"Scum" according to rainman:

Warm, loving people:

"Scum" according to rainman:

Warm, loving people:

"Scum" according to rainman:

Yep, whole lot of difference between them.

Nice post. Took the words right out of my mouth.

[GlenOrd]

I hate to say this. But from my obseration, the Yellow have more beautiful fair skin chicks compared to the red. The smile more, and their English are also better. I think I must have watched too much ABC, ALJAZEERA, BBC, CCTV, CNN.

[Plus]

Nice and loving reds in quiet and peaceful Chiang Mai - give me a break.

"In Chiang Mai, several pickup trucks packed with government followers drove to crowded public places where they roused the people to take the law into their own hands and attack the yellow-shirted protesters and their sympathisers."

http://nationmultimedia.com/2008/12/01/pol...cs_30089828.php

Someone said earlier that it wasn't PPP's fault that Dems don't get much support upcountry. Yeah, right:

"Democrat leaders attacked in Chiang Mai

Published on March 31, 2006

Chairs, eggs and paint thrown at party chiefs as violent episode blights lead-up to Sunday's ballot

Democrat Party leaders were attacked and pelted with chairs and a rally they had planned for chiang mai was cut short by road blockages and abusive behaviour in a concerted and highly effective campaign by supporters of Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra yesterday."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...newsid=30000602

name 1 country in the world that has a system in which 30% of the parliament is elected and the rest of the seats are appointed ..

Hong Kong

The red's on the other had have no command structure (to speak of). They are/will be a mob in the true sense of the word mob.

They have leaders and organisers from the ruling party and its supporters, they get very nicely shipped in and out of Bangkok, all on schedule and in exact numbers.

Edited December 1, 2008 by Plus

[wedders]

As the original poster of the DAAD supporter photos, I would just like to point out that the sole reason for doing so was to demonstrate that these are ordinary folk, and not the cynical paid foot-soldiers that some people are endeavouring to portray.

Of course quite predictably, this has been used to further the slanging match and usual polemics that people engage in on this forum.

It would be laughable if it wasn't sad - the fact that the behaviour of a number of people on TV mirrors that of the mindless nonsense we are seeing from certain elements of Thai society at the moment. Clearly Western civilisation hasn't done much for our sense of proportion, fairness, tolerance, rational thought. Take a step back from all this, and a different perspective is revealed - one where certain shadowy and powerful interests are manipulating the situation to their own ends, and the grassroots population is being used as cannon fodder as usual.

Sorry 'plus', but you couldn't be much farther off the mark. Get yourself up to CM and I'll take you to meet the demonstrators and their leaders, and then you'll be better placed to pass judgment. As it is, your words reveal considerable ignorance.

[GlenOrd]

name 1 country in the world that has a system in which 30% of the parliament is elected and the rest of the seats are appointed ..

Hong Kong

Wow, I didn't know that HK is a country. I suppose that's why I failed by geography.

[animatic]

Great photos, really shows the difference.

Yeah, big difference.

Warm, loving people:

"Scum" according to rainman:

Warm, loving people:

"Scum" according to rainman:

Warm, loving people:

"Scum" according to rainman:

Yep, whole lot of difference between them.

Nice post. Took the words right out of my mouth.

Great post.

The irony is just enormous.

[hammered]

The reality is both sides at the rallies are mostly decent people. However, both sides have their harder elements to downright dangerous groups. It would also be naive to think politcal rallie sonly attract people interested in politics. Anyone who has ever been involved in a few rallies will realise that there are always an element of peopl attracted purely for the "action". That however, is not to try and excuse either lot for vioence. Both have committed it.

[Meerkat]

name 1 country in the world that has a system in which 30% of the parliament is elected and the rest of the seats are appointed ..

Hong Kong

Wrong and you know it, seeing as you and I have discussed their system of government at length here before.

[wedders]

The reality is both sides at the rallies are mostly decent people. However, both sides have their harder elements to downright dangerous groups. It would also be naive to think politcal rallie sonly attract people interested in politics. Anyone who has ever been involved in a few rallies will realise that there are always an element of peopl attracted purely for the "action". That however, is not to try and excuse either lot for vioence. Both have committed it.

Why isn't this obvious truth evident to so many blinkered people posting on TV? Well, I suppose I've answered my own question ...

They have the same shape blinkers as those worn by the people they spend half their time criticising, but are too polarised in their convictions to be aware of the irony.

[Plus]

Sorry 'plus', but you couldn't be much farther off the mark. Get yourself up to CM and I'll take you to meet the demonstrators and their leaders, and then you'll be better placed to pass judgment. As it is, your words reveal considerable ignorance.

You MUST explain the very recent killings and beatings that happened in Chiang Mai if you want to insist that it is safe and peaceful.

How long would I last in my generic "We love the King" yellow Monday shirt if I run into those "peaceful" reds there?

name 1 country in the world that has a system in which 30% of the parliament is elected and the rest of the seats are appointed ..

Hong Kong

Wrong and you know it, seeing as you and I have discussed their system of government at length here before.

What exactly is wrong there? 30% number? You are just nitpicking.

[Meerkat]

name 1 country in the world that has a system in which 30% of the parliament is elected and the rest of the seats are appointed ..

Hong Kong

Wrong and you know it, seeing as you and I have discussed their system of government at length here before.

What exactly is wrong there? 30% number? You are just nitpicking.

Hardly nitpicking, considering that 100% of HK's parliament is elected, half by geographical constituencies and half by functional ones.

Of course, using HK's system of government to try and lend credibility to your ideals of New Politics in Thailand falls flat on its face anyway considering that HK people want more direct (ie geographic) elections, not less.