A Small Reality Check

[ITF]

If the 4000 protesters were (slowly) removed from the airport in time to declare things "open" at 18:00 (which has now passed and the airport remains closed), surely everyone understands the reality of things.

--- 4000 protesters, as well as the authorities supervising need to leave the area..

--- 1000's of airport employees need to reach the airport

--- The airport needs to be fully cleaned of debris/garbage

--- Most importantly, airlines will surely not resume flights without a deep and thorough sweep for bombs, explosives or any other type of sabotage

--- Once completed, planes themselves need to arrive --- runways, bays and airspace can only handle so much craft..

And the obvious..

--- 100,000+ tourists need to reach the airport

Even if a resolution was put in motion, which it hasn't been, there is no quick fix.

---------------

Our options:

1. Wait it out

2. Venture out of country to a neighbouring airport and purchase new tickets

3. Some airlines are flying minimal flights out of U-Tapao Airforce Base

4. Wait it out, and eventually resort to #2 or #3

To what extent airlines and TAT will assist remains to be seen. Posted at the forums here is some information on assisted accommodations but beyond that, to my knowledge there no further information. Most offices are closed for the weekend - and were they open, they would have little information to provide as the situation is still too new and unknown. We will see some answers, and possibly some change come next week I would expect.

---------------

Personally, it's a blessing in disguise. I love Thailand. My girlfriend is to stay well into February, whereas I am to leave presently. For now it's an affordable stay, and is very simple to advise colleagues at work to "watch the news for updates as to my return date". So I run with option 1, until it becomes a burden, and resort to #4.

Jealous of most of you on this forum who get to call this place home!

Edited November 29, 2008 by ITF

[JerryO]

If the 4000 protesters were (slowly) removed from the airport in time to declare things "open" at 18:00 (which has now passed and the airport remains closed), surely everyone understands the reality of things.

--- 4000 protesters, as well as the authorities supervising need to leave the area..

--- 1000's of airport employees need to reach the airport

--- The airport needs to be fully cleaned of debris/garbage

--- Most importantly, airlines will surely not resume flights without a deep and thorough sweep for bombs, explosives or any other type of sabotage

--- Once completed, planes themselves need to arrive --- runways, bays and airspace can only handle so much craft..

And the obvious..

--- 100,000+ tourists need to reach the airport

Even if a resolution was put in motion, which it hasn't been, there is no quick fix.

---------------

Our options:

1. Wait it out

2. Venture out of country to a neighbouring airport and purchase new tickets

3. Some airlines are flying minimal flights out of U-Tapao Airforce Base

4. Wait it out, and eventually resort to #2 or #3

To what extent airlines and TAT will assist remains to be seen. Posted at the forums here is some information on assisted accommodations but beyond that, to my knowledge there no further information. Most offices are closed for the weekend - and were they open, they would have little information to provide as the situation is still too new and unknown. We will see some answers, and possibly some change come next week I would expect.

---------------

Personally, it's a blessing in disguise. I love Thailand. My girlfriend is to stay well into February, whereas I am to leave presently. For now it's an affordable stay, and is very simple to advise colleagues at work to "watch the news for updates as to my return date". So I run with option 1, until it becomes a burden, and resort to #4.

Jealous of most of you on this forum who get to call this place home!

I think what you were trying to say was that from the time all the protesters are out its gon' take another 2 or 3 days to see some airport activity, and another 3 or 4 after that to get back to some normalcy.

i'm in basic agreement. but i think its time for the violence and bloodshed to start. its gon' happen so why not lets' just get the party started and be on and be done with it. that should be part of your reality check too, me thinks.

i agree in order to get out fast, make your way to u-tapao, but better make your way to phuket by bus or night train. or night train to butterworth/Penang.

this incident is going to have done major harm to thai economy as many tourists wont come and they are right not to come. why go where your vacation could realistically get ruined?

i blame the thai police first for not being able to secure the airport and take the protest threats seriously. this has all been known for quite some time; personally i think the pad people are not directing their anger in the right placel. they are hurting the low income thai people that work in hotels, restaurants etcetra.

[GlenOrd]

I agree. For those waiting to fly out. No need to have your bad pack & ready to mobilise within 5 min of SMS from your airline. Relax. When the PAD eventually cleared, I guess it will take at least another 2 days before you can get a seat to fly out.

[londonthai]

I don't know nothing about workings of the airport of that size - but it's more like weeks to make it operational (even if not dameged).

from what I have seen all aiport trollies are on the barricades

[speedways]

i am currently living in the philippines but i love thailand so much

i was planning a trip this next week but have had to cancel it

because of these idiots

it is high season now and the tourists should be pouring in

do these idiots know what irrepairable damage they are doing to their country

i take no sides about their disputes but its time they were removed------ forcibly

if it has to be that way

and if they have no jobs to go back to they only have themselves to blame

[britmaveric]

Well by all accounts it there was not going to be a high season this year, but needless to say what business that was going to be had has certainly gone out the window now.

[LivinLOS]

personally i think the pad people are not directing their anger in the right placel. they are hurting the low income thai people that work in hotels, restaurants etcetra.

You mean the ones who voted the way the PAD object to ??

Doesnt that explain a little of why they dont care about the suffering they are creating ??

[LivinLOS]

I don't know nothing about workings of the airport of that size - but it's more like weeks to make it operational (even if not dameged).

from what I have seen all aiport trollies are on the barricades

I would put it in the closer to weeks than days category too.. Even just passing all operational checks let alone sorting out the kind of damage / ripping off that may have gone on..

[hegenious]

--- 4000 protesters, as well as the authorities supervising need to leave the area..

--- 1000's of airport employees need to reach the airport

--- The airport needs to be fully cleaned of debris/garbage

--- Most importantly, airlines will surely not resume flights without a deep and thorough sweep for bombs, explosives or any other type of sabotage

--- Once completed, planes themselves need to arrive --- runways, bays and airspace can only handle so much craft..

I agree with the OP that clearing Swampy might take in the order of weeks rather than days.

My wife is due to fly to me in the Netherlands on 18th of December. Tickets have been bought months ago. We've been looking forward to spending Christmas together, like mad...

Now, with the current situation at Swannapoom, and with no rapid solution in sight, we decided to not sit and wait it out, but check what the alternatives are, and act.

First I thought of having her fly from Had Yai to KL or Singapore and from there take a flight to Amsterdam (my wife lives in Thailand's deep south), but she reminded me that Had Yai airport is now closed too, and that the only public airports open are Chiang Mai in the north and Phuket in the south.

I advised my wife to at least call China Air, where we had booked her ticket, to ask if they came up with an alternative... They told her that yes, their daily flight Taipei-Bangkok-Amsterdam had been rerouted to Taipei-Chiang Mai-Amsterdam. With respect of the same departure and arrival times as it were in Bangkok

Then we looked at the best way to get her in Chiang Mai, and we came up with the following scheme:

She will take a bus from her hometown of Phatthalung to Phuket. There she'll take the Thai Airways flight to Chiang Mai (5000 Baht all taxes incl.) and there hop on the plane to Holland. On the Thai Air website, you could see the tickets go "sold out" before your eyes...

This, our plan 'B', will become effective in case Swampy is not cleared by the time my wife flies. It is, of course, not completely fool-proof, as TIT... but it gave us both some peace of mind.

[misterman21]

It could take a few weeks just to clean the toilets - the current condition doesn't bare thinking about[

[khaowong1]

Has anyone stopped to think - that maybe, maybe PAD doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks about them. That maybe, just maybe their only concern is that they don't think that the current govt. in charge is not in the best interests of their country. As anyone knows who has lived here for awhile, most Thai's don't worry about the future. I think it's their Buddhist upbringing that has them only worrying about now. AND maybe, just maybe the police and the Thai army feel the same way which is why you haven't seen a big storming of the crowds. Just food for thought, thank you.

[bluemanna]

Has anyone stopped to think - that maybe, maybe PAD doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks about them. That maybe, just maybe their only concern is that they don't think that the current govt. in charge is not in the best interests of their country. As anyone knows who has lived here for awhile, most Thai's don't worry about the future. I think it's their Buddhist upbringing that has them only worrying about now. AND maybe, just maybe the police and the Thai army feel the same way which is why you haven't seen a big storming of the crowds. Just food for thought, thank you.

How dense is that comment. If the PAD are worried about their future, they`d pull their heads out of their ass and let the country get back to normal, what they are doing is ruining theirs and every other thai`s futures

[MeetJohnDoe]

This, our plan 'B', will become effective in case Swampy is not cleared by the time my wife flies. It is, of course, not completely fool-proof, as TIT... but it gave us both some peace of mind.

A man with a plan...good work mate!

[OxfordWill]

yes dont forget us whites are absolutely everyones top concern- wherever we are in the world.

[WTF]

Has anyone stopped to think - that maybe, maybe PAD doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks about them. That maybe, just maybe their only concern is that they don't think that the current govt. in charge is not in the best interests of their country. As anyone knows who has lived here for awhile, most Thai's don't worry about the future. I think it's their Buddhist upbringing that has them only worrying about now. AND maybe, just maybe the police and the Thai army feel the same way which is why you haven't seen a big storming of the crowds. Just food for thought, thank you.

How dense is that comment. If the PAD are worried about their future, they`d pull their heads out of their ass and let the country get back to normal, what they are doing is ruining theirs and every other thai`s futures

I don't think that the comment was "dense" at all. I think that what khaowong1's post means is that it is possible that not all Thais think the the way we do, that is is possible that there are a number of Thais who are worried more about the PRESENT and that is why this immediate drastic action seems ok to them.

Personally I disapprove of this action. In addition to the huge long and short term consequences it "inconveniences" me because I now have to cancel a trip that I have been planning for 8 months.

However, I must say that while I am shocked by the the drastic nature of this protest, I am equally shocked by the whining from Westerners that I read daily.

Right or wrong, obviously there are quite a few THAIS, both citizens and government agencies, that are willing to take a back seat on this and not take action. They have their reasons for making their choices.

I think khaowong's comment is quite constructive. There is more to this than what we see.

[pothai]

With Mumbai now over, the press can focus on other matters....any form of violence in removing the demonstrators would be grasped upon and shown worldwide, hence future tourists cancelling already booked holidays and prospective tourists choosing an alternate destination. The situation needs to be handled with care as the eyes of the world are watching....

[bkk_mike]

The police are not going to go in military style.

1. Too many of the protesters are old women, and there's even small children there.

2. They can't use their Russian-made tear gas canisters as, after Oct 7th, they now know that they go off like small bombs, and can kill people.

3, Water cannons would be dangerous, mainly because the protesters are on the elevated motorway to the airport. You can just imagine the picture if a child was hit with a water cannon, resulting in them going over the side, and it's a long way down.

That effectively, assuming they don't want to cause fatalities, leaves the police with two options:

One is to go in. in huge numbers, behind riot shields, and take people out one at a time working from the edges in.

The other would be to cut off their supplies, and effectively starve them out. (which has the obvious disadvantage that there is possibly quite a lot of food in the airport).

But the first step, for either of those is to block ALL access roads to the airport. But given food and journalists keep turning up, that doesn't seem to be happening.

At the moment, I'm not worried about the police or the army as either of those would be trying to break up the protest without injuring people.

I'm far more worried about what might happen if neither the police or army ends the protest. A second mob arriving, this one dressed in red.

Edited November 30, 2008 by bkk_mike

[old wanderer]

Has anyone stopped to think - that maybe, maybe PAD doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks about them. That maybe, just maybe their only concern is that they don't think that the current govt. in charge is not in the best interests of their country. As anyone knows who has lived here for awhile, most Thai's don't worry about the future. I think it's their Buddhist upbringing that has them only worrying about now. AND maybe, just maybe the police and the Thai army feel the same way which is why you haven't seen a big storming of the crowds. Just food for thought, thank you.

I have almost completely concur with the above....The certainty that the present government would have changed the constitution and law to support both a Taksin dynasty, forgive other members of the TRT, is an absolute certainty....

Without the shutting down of government, the entire political landscape would have been change irrevocably. Remeber it was not until they scheduled a hearing on re-writing the constitution that things got ugly.

The move to the airport was at 1st to confront Somchai as he arrived from Peru, however, seeing the impact, and the reaction of the head of the AOT, in closing the airport, it sort of got a life of its own. PAD goal was to protest at the airport, in the public areas, (where they still confine themselves too today), not shut down operations. It was the AOT that shutdown the airport.

Looking at the CNN pictures of the interior, what group would have policed itself in such a manner that 100,000 of thousand of dollars of upscale goods sit undisturbed?

As to the OP premise of a long time to re-open....I disagree. When the PAD agreed they had no problem with 88 aircraft to depart today, how much delay was needed? Within the hour, aircraft were being prepared, and within 2 hours the 1st aircraft were taxing out and departed.

Speaking as a well experienced Airline Captain who has operated aircraft from some pretty remote, and hostile areas of this world, the concern about sabotage is way out of proportion to the real danger.

In my view, the protest will come to a end Tuesday, people will go home, the government will be out, and the airport will resume operation on Thursday, and back to normal by Saturday. Just my opinion, but is does come from some experience.

[RouxTheDay]

PAD goal was to protest at the airport, in the public areas... not shut down operations. It was the AOT that shutdown the airport.

This is totally incorrect. The way I've understood it, the main reason the airport had to be shut down because PAD stormed the air traffic control tower and forced out the controllers. If that is so, then clearly, the PAD's explicit intent was to shut down the airport. Isn't this a no-brainer? I'm pretty sure the single most essential function in proper airport ops is air traffic control.

It is this, coupled with the blockade of all access roads by the PAD, that has shut down the airport. Again. If the PAD had no intent of stopping airport ops, why blockade the roads at both airports?

Not to be insulting, but it seems a person would have be very naive to believe that all the PAD wanted to do was have a peaceful, 60s-style sit-in. If the presence of peaceful protesters were the only issue, then it would certainly be inconvenient and chaotic, but there would be no real reason for the airport to completely cease ops.

The PAD has shot itself in the foot here IMHO.

[britmaveric]

Indeed whatever support the PAD had with undecided public is gone now! There illegal actions most certainly need to be stopped - all should be arrested and tossed in jail where they belong. If you think it will be over on 2 Dec - you are in dream land mate. Going to be weeks before this mess has been straightened out and things return to normal. Only hope is the BIB and army come to their senses and go in with overwhelming force.

[johnsonspot]

I don't think that the comment was "dense" at all. I think that what khaowong1's post means is that it is possible that not all Thais think the the way we do, that is is possible that there are a number of Thais who are worried more about the PRESENT and that is why this immediate drastic action seems ok to them.

Personally I disapprove of this action. In addition to the huge long and short term consequences it "inconveniences" me because I now have to cancel a trip that I have been planning for 8 months.

However, I must say that while I am shocked by the the drastic nature of this protest, I am equally shocked by the whining from Westerners that I read daily.

Right or wrong, obviously there are quite a few THAIS, both citizens and government agencies, that are willing to take a back seat on this and not take action. They have their reasons for making their choices.

I think khaowong's comment is quite constructive. There is more to this than what we see.

Sure, the Thais can do whatever they want with their country. But I personally can't wait to hear the wailing when tourists refuse to come back to LOS. Frankly, I think it will be funny. Do you really think that when tourists discover the beauty of places like Vietnam, Malaysia, etc. they will want to come back to Thailand and put up with all the crap? Thailand has ceased to be the inexpensive destination it once was and, with the absolute fleecing of tourists having become rampant, I would encourage no one to go there unless absolutely necessary...and I can't think of a reason that would make it absolutely necessary.

[old wanderer]

PAD goal was to protest at the airport, in the public areas... not shut down operations. It was the AOT that shutdown the airport.

This is totally incorrect. The way I've understood it, the main reason the airport had to be shut down because PAD stormed the air traffic control tower and forced out the controllers. If that is so, then clearly, the PAD's explicit intent was to shut down the airport. Isn't this a no-brainer? I'm pretty sure the single most essential function in proper airport ops is air traffic control.

It is this, coupled with the blockade of all access roads by the PAD, that has shut down the airport. Again. If the PAD had no intent of stopping airport ops, why blockade the roads at both airports?

Not to be insulting, but it seems a person would have be very naive to believe that all the PAD wanted to do was have a peaceful, 60s-style sit-in. If the presence of peaceful protesters were the only issue, then it would certainly be inconvenient and chaotic, but there would be no real reason for the airport to completely cease ops.

The PAD has shot itself in the foot here IMHO.

In all situations, when you hear news, consider the source, (hence the side or agenda) of the person doing the reporting.

There were 3 security personnel from PAD that asked to visit the control tower....They were escorted there and back. The premise that they "stormed" the control tower is a pretty large exaggeration, but makes good press for the opposition. Questions were asked at that time by the controllers as to the intent and duration of the protest.

The roads were blockaded in the locations the police had set up blockades, to prevent additional PAD from joining the original group. The police were invited to relocate so as to not cut off food and water from those at the protest site, which at 1st included a number of passengers. Why a blockaide....to put them outside of M79 grenade range.

TAT had no problem with gaining access with buses to remove passengers. A muslin group was invited to continue their pilgrimage to Meca if the airline was willing to continue...and finally yesterday, 88 aircraft departed the tarmac to continue service.

I do not take your remarks as being insulting, but ultimately it was and is the decision of the AOT (which is a part of the current government, and chain of command flows to the PM)

Have they shot themselves in the foot....well if they were a political party and planned to run for election after the during the next election. As it is, they simply want to prevent the Thaskinnization of Thailand, and protect the Monarch.

Way too many people jump in here with statements with out the basic facts and understanding of Thai politics. If the PPP had not been steadfast in trying to revise the Constitution, this would have never reached this level. In order to prevent that the complete shutdown of the government was necessarry until the Constitutional Court render a verdict (probably Tuesday).

[sendbaht]

"I think it's their Buddhist upbringing that has them only worrying about now."

Some truth in this, but, I see them (wife, in-laws) just in the "now" not worrying about it. I love this about them!

Not sure if anyone has heard of Ram Doss but "be here now" is one thing I remember about him.

[spacefruit]

I just heard a rumour that the control tower is damaged. That made me think, everything will have to be checked before any airlines will fly in. Dont forget, the airport lost its IATA certifcation long ago, and has been operating without it eveer since.

I cant help thinking that it will be at least two weeks to restore the airport to before the ocupation, and the longer it goes on, the more damage those in occupation will do.

Last photo I saw was of people sat behind check in counters. Dont tell me they didnt try and start all the systems, just for fun.

[Crossy]

Yup ^^^ I've heard similar information from airline staff that have been inside, stating that our friends the PAD have removed anything that's not nailed down, so workstations etc. have gone walkabout.

It could need a complete re-commisssion and startup, even on a fast track that's weeks not days

Edited December 1, 2008 by Crossy

[Soi224]

Has anyone stopped to think - that maybe, maybe PAD doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks about them. That maybe, just maybe their only concern is that they don't think that the current govt. in charge is not in the best interests of their country. As anyone knows who has lived here for awhile, most Thai's don't worry about the future. I think it's their Buddhist upbringing that has them only worrying about now. AND maybe, just maybe the police and the Thai army feel the same way which is why you haven't seen a big storming of the crowds. Just food for thought, thank you.

I have almost completely concur with the above....The certainty that the present government would have changed the constitution and law to support both a Taksin dynasty, forgive other members of the TRT, is an absolute certainty....

Without the shutting down of government, the entire political landscape would have been change irrevocably. Remeber it was not until they scheduled a hearing on re-writing the constitution that things got ugly.

Whilst not a supporter of Thaksin, still seems to me the present government was democratically elected. Whether or not you like the results is not a point to it, unless you agree the farmers and poor of Thailand deserve a lesser voice. There may be an argument for that, but that is the argument.

As to the OP premise of a long time to re-open....I disagree. When the PAD agreed they had no problem with 88 aircraft to depart today, how much delay was needed? Within the hour, aircraft were being prepared, and within 2 hours the 1st aircraft were taxing out and departed.

Speaking as a well experienced Airline Captain who has operated aircraft from some pretty remote, and hostile areas of this world, the concern about sabotage is way out of proportion to the real danger.

In my view, the protest will come to a end Tuesday, people will go home, the government will be out, and the airport will resume operation on Thursday, and back to normal by Saturday. Just my opinion, but is does come from some experience.

Assuming you really are an experienced airline pilot, then you also probably know taking off without passengers to move an aircraft is as far removed from the scenario of making the airport operational for complete operation as removing a wart versus heart surgery. Your comparison doesn't apply except perhaps under emergency situations where loss of life is imminent. Not only are we are talking about bringing an international airport back to operational standards for normal passengers, but we probably have to consider airline policies and liabilities before they will allow their planes to depart from the reopened airport with passengers as well.

Soi224

[bdenner]

I just heard a rumour that the control tower is damaged. ---------

A friend phoned me with this after hearing a radio report in Sydney. If so, how the f#ck did PAD get access to the Control Tower?

Where was the security for such an important building?

Are the organisers (or is it idiots) displaying complete irresponsibility for not being able to control the protesters or did they condone these actions?

Amazing Thailand --- Unseen