Medicines For Mental Illnesses - Comments

[cmike1980]

Medicines For Mental Illnesses - Comments

Note : The article below is about the hazardous side effects of modern medications meant for the treatment of some mental illnesses.

antipsychotics (such as Risperdal etc) meant for the treatment of such mental illnesses as schizophrenia to carry potentially hazardous and disastrous side effects (especially the ones manifesting in the forms of various uncontrollable, involuntary and purposeless movements / muscle twitching disorders on the parts of the eyes, face, arms, legs etc) as Extrapyramidal Symptoms , Tardive Dyskinesia , Dystonia, and Akathisia.

Next, no matter how sophisticated the modern drugs are being invented and developed, especially the second-generation antipsychotics, such a potential side effect remains inherent in such medications that carry the side effects of antagonizing the dopamine receptors (one of the main neurotransmitters / the key elements of neurons / nerve cells in our nervous system essential for the control of human body motions) . Even though the possibility of manifestation of such neuromuscular symptoms may be very small or even negligible as proven by the established scientific research, other experimental and clinical verifications, it would still depend on such other factors as the different physical conditions of the users of such drugs, other unexpected possible allergy cases etc.

All in all, it would be the amount of medical attention and professional care of the medical personnel dealing with the specific cases of their patients and dispensing the drugs with such dopamine-disturbing side effects that would be primarily essential to ensure the non-occurrence of such disorders or minimize the risk of getting such disastrous and undesired neuromuscular side effects.

Edited December 2, 2008 by Sheryl
factual inaccuracies

[girlx]

yeah it disturbs me when i hear of people self diagnosing and going to buy meds from pharmacies here... messing with your brain chemistry is serious!

[mrtoad]

This is nothing new. It just reiterates, why using such medications ahould be under the guidance of a qualified health care professional.

Risperidal as an example, is certainly not the best, as there are a number of other medications with potentialy worse side effects.

[cmike1980]

Yup, I quite agree with you all. Based on my real life observations so far, usually the paper catalogues, pamphlets and brochures for such medications would tend to include the information about their side effects in the forms of fine prints and some very small-size characters in that many users would most of the time tend to ignore them or simply take them as some medical jargons that are otherwise meaningless to them.

But in reality, it's always important to at least get an understanding about the medications that one takes so as to take precautions against any unwanted disastrous side effects from them.

Besides, my real life experiences and observations simply tell me that there tend to be more and more grown individuals, especially the working adults nowadays who would eventually turn to such depression-related drugs to deal with the stressful work-related pressures that they could hardly cope (and the economy anywhere is still taking a downturn now while the fuel prices continue rising almost everyday, and hey, it's really tough making a decent living nowadays). So I guess it would just be rationally reasonable enough for this group of people to at least take note of such an issue about the undesired side effects of such drugs to take the necessary precautions against them so as to avoid any unwanted disasters that may potentially ruin their lives and perhaps also the ones directly and indirectly dependent upon them altogether.

In addition, my opinion for such depression-related medications is such that in the case of depression sickness itself which would only cause a person to have a lower self-esteem, lose interest in mixing with other people and to a certain extent make one feel reluctant to go to work sometimes, it certainly will not worth one's while to soley depend on such drugs to relieve such a mental disorder at the expense of getting all the disastrous irreversible physically incapacitating side effects from such drugs eventually. Hence, my point of view is that extreme cautions should be exercised when one has got no choice but to take such drugs to deal with their mental disorders.

In terms of such depression-related medication as Risperdal, it is actually meant in reality for prescription purposes by the related medical personnel / specialists to be taken by any of its current and prospective users temporarily for a period of 6 months and below (after which it should be replaced with something else). Such a measure is intended as a safety precaution to safeguard its users from any of its unwanted disastrous physically incapacitating side effects that will almost in all cases manifest onto the ones taking such medication over the long-term. In connection, it's actually at the same time, a strictly-adhered medical practice / protocol for the medical professions of U.S, European and other western countries.

Lastly, I hope that the information given above will turn out to be useful to its intended readers. Thank you.

Edited December 1, 2008 by cmike1980

[girlx]

Cognitive Therapy As Effective As Antidepressants

[dumball]

I happen to be Bipolar , your prognosis of depression is way off base , it goes far deeper than just feeling anti-social or not wanting to get up for work , true depression constitutes a huge pit with walls so slimey , the effort to claw your way out becomes so beyond normal comprehension that even many phsycologists are unable to diagnose it . You just want to give up and sucumb to the pervasive fog you become enshrouded in , but usualy you fight on until one day you wake up in intensive care strapped to a cot put right beside the nurses station because they do not trust you out of their sight .

Drugs did little for me , oh yes it took away my mania , but left me with my ass so close to the floor i cried at the least provocation , just wanting to roll over and get out of here to a new life somewhere beyond the realms of deep darkness that pressed in with yet another injection .

Finally i spent 5 weeks in a special ward being 'Brainwashed ' through hynosis and other methods , now it has been many years since i went up or down (Thank the lord) , i just get a little over excited at times .

Who ever you are , where ever you are , take hede of side effects , they can be more disorienting than whatever it is that ails you .

[Hairy]

Where'd you quote the scary articles from, a Scientology website?

Antidepressants are wonderful if someone needs them. Finding the right one(s) can be a bitch, but unfortunately, so far there's no method other than random trial-and-error for learning which medication works for a particular individual. A psychiatrist can't do much more than warn you of the risks, tell you what dosages to take, hold your hand, and tell you whether you're bouncing off the walls when one of the trial drugs doesn't work. Some people need that, others are able to figure it out on their own.

[Sheryl]

The original post has been edited to remove the following inaccuracies:

1 - There is nothing "hidden" about the side effects mentioned, they are well known and documented. and do not occur in everyone.

2 - The specific type of side effect mentioned are specific to anti-psychotic medications (of which risperadol is one) and not to antidepressents nor to many of the drugs used for bi-polar disorder. Hence mention to all but schizophreia has been deleted.

Depression, bi-polar disorder and schizophrenia are utterly different conditions and treated with completely different drugs.

Anti-depressents certainly have their side effects -- all drugs do -- but not the ones mentioned in this post.

Management of BPD involves a varuiety of medications; sometimes antipsychoptics such as risperodol are used to treat acute mania but there are alternatives which many patients respond to.

End of factual corrections. Now for my personal opinion:

- No one, and I mean no-one, should ever attempt to treat schizophrenia/ other psychosis or BPD on their own. These are complex disorders that require a trained pyschiatrist to diagnose and treat and ongoing medical supervision to both assess the effectiveness of treatment and monitor for side effects. A pyschiatrist, as opposed to psychologist/therapist is needed to make the initial diagnosis and stabilize the patient. Once stabilized on a drug regimen it is possible for a general practioner to monitor for side effects, but periodic re-evaluation by a pyschiatrist is important. Therapy/counseling may be of help in terms of helping the person adapt to living with the illness once been stabilized on medication.

- Depression: ideally, should be diagnosed by a trained professional; the main danger is that self-diagnosis may be incorrect. I have seen many cases of people with anxiety disorder or BPD mistakenly treated with anti-depressents. Be aware that anti-depressents given to someone with BPD can trigger a manic episode, and that given to people with anxiety diosorder may aggravate the symptoms or just not help. Unlike BPD and schizophrenia/other psychoses, psychologists and other types of trained therapists can diagnose and manage depression, and cognitive and other types of psychotherapy or counselling are often a big help. In countries where anti-depressents are prescription-only a psychologist or counsellor will not be able to prescribe, but they can be of great help in determining if the problem is one of pure depression or not and also whether or not medication is indicated. In fact, IMO, they often do this better than pyschiatricts due to spending far more time coming to know and understand the patient. They almost always have a physician affiliate who can prescribe. In a country like Thailand where anti-depressents are OTC, a therapist can advise the patient in the decision to self-treat. Anyone who takes a medication -- and most especially, but not only, who takes one one their own accord --- should read up on side effects, interactions and contraindications, and at a minimum have had a physical check up by a physician before starting and then (if one medication long term) annually, being sure to inform the physician of the medication being taken.

[cmike1980]

To a certain extent, I quite agree with your reasonings. Nevertheless, it remains the truth that most of the antipsychotics / neuroleptics meant for especially the treatment of chronic mental illnesses would tend to work in such a way that they would need to change / alter the chemical balances in the brain of those taking such medications in the process of bringing such disorders under control. In the process of doing so, such a mechanism would unavoidably and eventually antagonize the neurotransmitters of the nervous system, especially the dopamine (which is necessary for various neuromuscular functions), and hence disturb and interfere with the normal functionings of the nerves of the human body.

Next, though it may take years for such undesirable side effects / scenario to manifest onto the ones taking such medications, I am just in the opinion that in the case of the medications having potentially such unwanted side effects, it would naturally be the duty of the medical personnel / specialists-in-charge to take all the precautionary measures to safeguard the well-being of the patients for the sake of their healthcare and welfare.

'Drugs did little for me , oh yes it took away my mania , but left me with my ass so close to the floor i cried at the least provocation , just wanting to roll over and get out of here to a new life somewhere beyond the realms of deep darkness that pressed in with yet another injection .

Finally i spent 5 weeks in a special ward being 'Brainwashed ' through hynosis and other methods , now it has been many years since i went up or down (Thank the lord) , i just get a little over excited at times .

Who ever you are , where ever you are , take hede of side effects , they can be more disorienting than whatever it is that ails you .'

Well, one very important lession that I have learnt from having such sickness is that medications alone is simply not the sole or absolute solution for such mental illnesses. Along with taking such medications to bring such disorders under control, one should also learn how to calm down and control his / her mood and emotion at the same time so that genuine improvements of the mental conditions can be achieved eventually.

In this regard, I have acutually received lots of pyschotherapy from lots of trained personnel as well as communication, interaction and emotional supports from my friends, relatives and kin before I get my sickness significantly cured and resume my normal life. In short, medications coupled with a happy and balance approach to life will be greatly helpful for such illnesses.

By the way, thanks for all the invaluable feedbacks.

[misterman21]

If there is any effective medicine for mental illness then shouldn't it be be put in the water system in Thailand

[cmike1980]

'If there is any effective medicine for mental illness then shouldn't it be be put in the water system in Thailand'

Well, medicines, especially the formal western ones, including the ones for mental illnesses, the rule that would always apply is that they are simply double-edged swords in that the larger is their medical effects, and hence their effectiveness, the greater would be their subsequent side effects. So, one should at least be aware of such an important medical fact.

[dumball]

Where'd you quote the scary articles from, a Scientology website?

Antidepressants are wonderful if someone needs them. Finding the right one(s) can be a bitch, but unfortunately, so far there's no method other than random trial-and-error for learning which medication works for a particular individual. A psychiatrist can't do much more than warn you of the risks, tell you what dosages to take, hold your hand, and tell you whether you're bouncing off the walls when one of the trial drugs doesn't work. Some people need that, others are able to figure it out on their own.

I gave my personal experience to help people to understand the complexity of mental illness . You have absolutely no idea of the complexities of Bipolarism .

[girlx]

erm... i think he was referring to another poster (OP), not you!

[Shotime]

Can Cognitive Therapy be used to treat Paranoia too?

[dumball]

Thank you girlX for clarifying that .

[girlx]

Can Cognitive Therapy be used to treat Paranoia too?

Cognitive Therapy is basically addressing problems and then training yourself how to deal with them in a calm manner, so yes, it can help paranoia too.

[Carib]

If there is any effective medicine for mental illness then shouldn't it be be put in the water system in Thailand

If this was a serious question than these medicines most certainly weren't in your water.

[Hairy]

Where'd you quote the scary articles from, a Scientology website?

I gave my personal experience to help people to understand the complexity of mental illness . You have absolutely no idea of the complexities of Bipolarism .

Sorry man, that was directed at cmike1980, not you. I did a web search through Google on a few phrases, and it appears that he either goes around posting these on random boards, or that cmike1980 copied those articles from the other boards.

Simple depression is quite complex enough for me, believe me.

[adamx]

Are there good places for CBT (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy) or hypnotherapy in downtown?

[cmike1980]

'I gave my personal experience to help people to understand the complexity of mental illness . You have absolutely no idea of the complexities of Bipolarism .'

Bipolarism - a psychiatric diagnosis that describes a category of mood disorders defined by the presence of one or more episodes of abnormally elevated mood clinically referred to as mania or, if milder, hypomania. Individuals who experience manic episodes also commonly experience depressive episodes or symptoms, or mixed episods in which features of both mania and depression are present at the same time.

Though I have not personally experienced for myself such a severe psychosis disorder before, I nevertheless have witnessed quite a number of such people suffering from such a severe mental disorder. In medical sense, such a mental disorder is mainly caused by the malfunctionings of the mood regulator neurotransmitter, especially Serotonin in the brain. Next, though the related medications can to a certain extent bring such a severe mental disorder under control by 'artificially' regulating, blocking and controlling the re-uptake of it in the brain of the persons suffering from it, medications alone however, by no means would be able to deal conclusively with the problems due to the fact that the root causes of such a disorder is actually resulting largely from the environmental, circumstantial and other interpersonal factors (or the changes of them) that are deemed to be emotionally and adversely unacceptable to the ones suffering from it to a very great extent. Such negative changes in turn actually account for the negative behavioural changes in them as described in the definition above.

Hence, that's the reason why I mention in my prior post that psychotherapy, emotional and other communication supports would be needed to complement the use of the related medications to achieve greater curative effects for such patients troubled by chronic mental disorder.

'I did a web search through Google on a few phrases, and it appears that he either goes around posting these on random boards, or that cmike1980 copied those articles from the other boards.'

Well, based on my real life observations, I have just found out that there tend to be more and more people nowadays, especially the ones troubled by the job-related stress and pressures, simply over-rely on such medications to deal with their 'mind-distressing' problems, or rather, to 'artificially' make them 'feel better' in order for them to be able to cope with all the stress and pressures related to their works especially in their workplace.

So, my purpose of making such posts over the net is acutally to give kind advices to such a group of people of the long-term hazards of doing that so that they in turn would not step into my sorry past of over-relying on such mental-disorder-drugs to deal with their work-related stress and pressure.

'Simple depression is quite complex enough for me, believe me.'

In fact, I see great senses in your comment especially when such simple depression actually aggravates, for example, from simple neurosis to a more severe psychosis disorder which in turn would bear such other serious implications of Extrapyramidal Symptoms, Tardive Dyskinesia, Dystonia, Akathisia, Parkinsonism disorders etc.

Edited December 3, 2008 by cmike1980

[edwinchester]

Are there good places for CBT (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy) or hypnotherapy in downtown?

You may want to have a look at the Ultrasis website.

They offer web based treatments and are recommended by NICE, the National Institute of Clinical Excellence who oversee all the treatments available in the British National Health Service.

[Sheryl]

Are there good places for CBT (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy) or hypnotherapy in downtown?

PSI and several of the other places listed on the pinned notice "Mental Health Resources" offer CBT.

[adamx]

I was wondering if any of you have had any personal experience at the mentioned places? I would like some feedback and your review of it. Thanks.

[Crushdepth]

Note : The article below is about the hazardous side effects of modern medications meant for the treatment of some mental illnesses.

What's your point ? All medications are potentially dangerous. You think we should take some ancient medicines instead? Don't take this personally but I really think your post is utterly useless.

[cmike1980]

'What's your point ? All medications are potentially dangerous. You think we should take some ancient medicines instead? Don't take this personally but I really think your post is utterly useless.'

My point is that those troubled with mental disorders, especially the serious ones, shouldn't just rely solely upon the medications as the one and only means of solution to their mental problems.

To put it bluntly, such medications, they are no different from sleeping pills whereby their calming effects just 'come and go' after the lapse of their effective period whilst their potential disastrous side effects can be permanent upon manifestations.

The real-life examples that I have come across so far is such that for the ones relying merely upon medications and nothing else to deal with their mental disorders, they would tend to develop both emotional and psychological dependences upon such medictions over the long-term whilst getting their mental conditions deteriorated from time to time, eg, from neurosis to psychosis and then just acquire all those undesirable side effects from such medications in the end.

That's the reason why most of the psychiatrists would insist on the importance of psychotherapy / counselling services and other emotional supports for such patients apart from just performing the formal routine of prescribing such medications to them.

'I was wondering if any of you have had any personal experience at the mentioned places? I would like some feedback and your review of it. Thanks.'

Well, in fact my experience of getting such a depression sickness is such that I have acutally gained tremendous benefits from the counselling therapy / helpful advices and emotional / communication supports from the others. Next, it just makes me realise that medications is one thing, but the mental / cognitive abilities of the patients themselves to eventually change their views and perceptions about their environments / surroundings, circumstances and people they are facing in a more positve way, particularly developed through the help of such counselling supports from the others in order for them to really get better and gradually develop positive behavioural / personal changes, is simply another thing that cannot achieved solely with the help of medications alone.

In short, medications alone by no means can be a substitute for the positive interpersonal experiences that such patients would eventually need for genuine improvement and recovery of their sanity.

Lastly, I hope that the points made above would be useful to the intended readers.

Edited December 4, 2008 by cmike1980

[mrtoad]

All medications have a variety of side effects. These are not neccesarily all common. Certainly with some of the Anti-Psychotics there are particular side effects that are common, and can be unpleasant, however cessation of such medications for a significant portion of patients will greatly lower the quality of life. As an expereinced Ex- Community Psychiatric Nurse, much of our work was based around Psychotherapy, along with comlpiance and monitoring of medication. In essence it's all a bit of a hit and miss in terms of medications, however scaremongering and fear of medications is quite common, hence the need for clinicians to ensure that the patient is fully aware of the potential side effects of such medication, however rare some might be. Remember that any slight side effect, that happens in clinical trials will be put on the drug information sheet, even if the occurance is very rare.

Sadly, a lot of medications such as anti-depressants are dished out by lazy GP's who just find it easier to send Grump Gary away with a box of Cipramil and some diazepam, even though he probably isn't clinicaly depressed.

Medications can aid and maintain a patients recovery, but effective therapy and support is the most important facet, and learning how to cope with situations. CBT and DBT are accepted therapies which have proven success. I thnk that you need to be very careful in the way that this thread is going as there is a significant difference between Grump Gary and a Paranoid Schizophreniac, in terms of treatment and therapy.

[cmike1980]

'Certainly with some of the Anti-Psychotics there are particular side effects that are common, and can be unpleasant, however cessation of such medications for a significant portion of patients will greatly lower the quality of life.'

Well, my opinion is such that objectively such a remark should be supported by the genuine feedbacks, particularly from the ones getting the unpleasant side effects from such medications especially in terms of their viewpoints about their quality of life 'before and after' getting the side effects from such medications.

And of course, different people would have different experiences and hence different perceptions about such an issue, and naturally that's simply something that no one else can 'determine' for them.

[Sheryl]

Mr. Toad has made the same point that I attempted to make earlier one: that sweeping statements lumping together schizophrenia, BPD and depression are invariably inaccurate. These are utterly diffierent illness treated with completely different drugs.

This thread also seems to be going in circles. It has already been stated and agreed to that (1) medications have side effects (2) many anti-psychotic medications (not to be confused with all psychotropics) have, among their potential side effects, serious neurological conditions such as tardive dyskenesia; (3) close medical monitoring is essential in the pharamcological treatment of psychosis and (4) counseling also has a valuable role to play.

Nothing to be gained by re-iterating this further. In addition, I am concerned that the original post was in no way Thailand specific. Please confine further posts to issues specific to those living in Thailand.

[Sheryl]

I was wondering if any of you have had any personal experience at the mentioned places? I would like some feedback and your review of it. Thanks.

Adam,

There was a recent post giving some positive feedback on counselors at PSI but I can't seem to locate it.

Personally I had contact with PSI many years ago which was satisfactory and more recently a telephone consultation with Bangkok Pysch Associates. Did not go further than that as the rebellious teenage subject of said consultation refused to see the therapist, but I was favorably impressed by the discussion we had on the phone.

I'm sure there are many more readers out there who have had contact with these various resources but bear in mind that many people will not feel comfortable acknowledging this in a public forum or even by PM to a stranger.

In any case the success of therapy depends very much on the quality of the relationshipo between therapits and client and individual chemistries vary; a therapist who did wonders for one client may not be effective with another. Bottom line is that you need to shop around a bit, have some initial consultations and select one that you feel you would be able to come to trust and would understand you.

[mrtoad]

'Certainly with some of the Anti-Psychotics there are particular side effects that are common, and can be unpleasant, however cessation of such medications for a significant portion of patients will greatly lower the quality of life.'

Well, my opinion is such that objectively such a remark should be supported by the genuine feedbacks, particularly from the ones getting the unpleasant side effects from such medications especially in terms of their viewpoints about their quality of life 'before and after' getting the side effects from such medications.

And of course, different people would have different experiences and hence different perceptions about such an issue, and naturally that's simply something that no one else can 'determine' for them.

I am giving you feedbacks from my 16 years of working in Mental Health, both in the community and in patient settings. I think that allows me to be able give an objective remark, without determinng things for them.

As Sheryl has already mentioned, and I have tried to reiterate, you are using to much generalization about treatments and diagnosis. There is no disagreement from the majority of us that there are unpleasant side effects from certain medications, that close monitoring of medication and side effects is needed and that CBT/DBT and other support is needed to allow patients to maintain activities of daily living and fulfill their life.

Out of curiosity, do you have issues with Mental Health Services?

Anyway, I will say no more on this.

Edited December 4, 2008 by mrtoad