Tourist Arrivals On Samui Down 50%

[mark lamai]

i got a promotion email from bangkok airways today.

samui one-way is down to 2750 (all inclusive, frm dec. 1).

still 850 more than Chiang mai.

look around lamai bars, in 40 bars there are 15 customers.

Bauhaus is closed and others.

sure its still low season, but his is not low, this is reverse gear.

as some said above, the samui 'economy' has all the elements of a balloon scenario for years.

maybe the crunch will have to come.

If the ROI isn't there (and is sure isn't if you buy property), then the investor is relying on capital growth in the future to take a loss in the short term.

then if tourism stagnates or dies, investors can't pay mortgages, staff lose jobs, shops close,

classic ballon burst.

simple greed has caused the balloon, and a simplistic belief that samui can keep going up forever.

short term greed has caused all the problems others mention.

asking thai authorities to think ahead and plan? haa haa.......

it may not happen, but it certainly could.

Thai's largest industrial park dveloper has cut projects 50%

Local builder tells me 2 million out of work in bkk and maybe 4 million next year, many are coming south looking for work.

A global recession.

A closed international airport.

Foreign governments warning against travel to Thailand

A government in hiding.

You couldn't ask for more.

========================================

If it implodes, thai's will scratch their heads and mumble "what happened".

A mate recently (luckily) sold his bar,

the 12000 rent and 300,000 key money will be 14,000 and 600,000 next year on new lease,

yes the fools still bought it, I don't think they will last a year frankly.

landlords won't understand long term happy lessees until half their properties are empty.

until now there has always been another gullible/foolish farang come along and rent/buy,

A polyester beach towel, how much? "480 baht" , haaaa put it down with disgust...

she replies in defence "This is Koh Samui"

[Mark Wolfe]

Personally, as a resident here in Lamai, I enjoy the drop in tourist numbers. I don't own a bar or restaurant or any other business here and don't care if 30 percent of the girlie bars are either closed or up for sale (staffed by skeleton crews).

I suppose in some altruistic sense it is a shame to see some places go under or suffer, but mostly when I saw people opening establishments a year or two -- without any sense of business strategy or study (and long before the bottom fell out of the global economy), I thought, "That's an almost sure-fire waste of good money."

I am not sure that I can think of any instance where my instinct was proven wrong.

People are scared of spending money on holidays when they might need the funds for things like house payments, rent, utilities, school fees, car payments, etc.

People are scared (rightly or wrongly) of the political fiascoes that seem to bubble up regularly here -- and with the crown jewel of fukc-ups in the guise of the airport "takeover" -- people are rethinking Thailand as a destination (for those well-heeled enough to be able to afford trips abroad in the first place).

Maybe this will teach some people a hard lesson in business and management -- study the situation before you open a bar or such in a place already flooded with similar establishments.

I heard of a man planning to open a bar in Lamai just the other day (he apparently has "no money" and is "trying to sell his house" to fund this doomed Arctic expedition), and I thought, "Jesus, is there no depths to the stupidity of some people?"

[marcus]

What Samui urgently needs in my opinion is a decent connection to Kuala Lumpur + some promotion for it.

Most people still think that if you go to Thailand, you have to go to Bangkok first.

However, Kuala Lumpur has a BIG benefit : not only it can not be closed by the PAD, but it is also the hub for Air Asia. From over there, Air Asia operates almost all cities in Asia (unfortunately except Japan), but for a while also Australia and starting as from March London Stafford and some other cities are announced for next year. (return ticket London = approx 25.000 thb). Stafford is also an important hub for Ryan Air serving many European cities. This means that it is now possible to fly with a budget carrier from all over Europe, Asia and Australia to KL, and from there to Pukhet. NOT to Samui. And that's a pity in this difficult economic period.

Of course, you can take the bus or BKK Air from Phuket to Samui, but how may people will pay for it ? For them Samui is just the smaller brother of Phuket with similar beaches (and as some say a not so good reputation any more). Why pay much more to visit it ?

My idea is that in the future, KL airport will become more and more important in SE Asia. Just a pity it's passengers can not come to us....

[BusyBee123]

The exchange rates have dropped and we are getting up to 20% less bang for our buck which make the resorts seem more expensive but that isn't their fault.

I think you meant to write, "20% less bang for your quid" because the buck/dollar is up almost 5% against the baht since I left two months ago. I'm coming back though so I'm sure it'll start going back down.

hehe true The us dollar enjoys a unique position in that even when the economy is broken the dollar is being bought as it is considered a safe haven, Russians have been buying over the last few months as they fear for their currency (i'm not surprised either!) china will be next so you guys will enjoy the benefits, the rest of us will just have to put up with it especially the british but we're used to moaning anyway so no worries there

[loiner100]

you mean "lible"...."slander" is spoken defamation, lible is published defamation.

you mean "exceeded"...not "acceded"

But now you are both right!...thank goodness for global economic depression, international airport take over and closure and blind hypergreed development to bring you two to meeting of minds

Thaierless, I think if you are going criticise (U.K spelling, not U.S.) others and attempt to educate someone to use the English language properly, the least you can do is to spell words correctly yourself!

'Lible' is NOT a word in the English language, perhaps you intended to mean 'libel'.

[LaoPo]

These "Organizations" should stop whining how bad things are but start moving to get the Bangkok Air Monopoly out of the way, it will bring competition in, lower the air fares, many from the industry are complaining about and get a plug on the number of beds in - prosperity will follow other secondary adjustment, like infrastructure, "GREEN SAMUI", safe Samui.....

..are you serious ?

What would you say if the "authorities'' would move you out of your own house because you have a monopoly, living there ?

Absurd; sorry to say.

Koh Samui, Phangan and Tao OWE everything to Bangkok Airways and now that they are operational for 20 years they should give up their own airport...the airport they BUILT and share the cake they built themselves with others and allow them to eat from that same cake ?

undeniable that they've build it... but not indisputable to allow others to utilize the arport too, it's a monopoly holding the wanna be samui visitor at random! And Nobody "owes everything to Bangkok Airways" they are utilizing a neat little treasure chest to their unchallengeable advantage, backpackers long before them, if so have put this region on the map!

I would fight till death to prevent they take away from me what's mine and your suggestion is absurd...grotesque.

Well everybody is allowed to have an opinion...it would help samui business in general a lot, now it serves only one company... forget what samui airport was before it became public and who are in the chairs...

And, if you don't believe tourism is decreasing dramatically, why don't you study the link I supplied a bit more before commenting ?

Well, this is very controversial, to what you reply to my thoughts about open up a monopoly and allow competition, maybe you should look with open eyes, I sit behind a hotels desk... and see, for many years what I see, not just refer to some scribes scenario. !

Writing that statistics are incorrect and that everything they write is not true is the same as denying that carsales in the USA are down -31% to -47% in November because that's the truth also.

It's not, as YOU are trying to turn my statement to your advantage to press YOUR point, I wrote that WE are doing well and others not - maybe read again! "I believe only in statistics I have forged myself" -Winston Churchill-

I don't know whether you follow the news a bit but the world is in a VERY SERIOUS CRISIS and that, Samuian, is having it's toll on Samui as well, whether you deny or like it or not.

And BECAUSE of this fact, it would help very much to go down with the prices, open up for competitors, forget about monopoly position, bangkok air has skimmed the cream off for long enough, it certainly would help, I am convinced, no matter what and who has the "earned rights or advantage at the trough! In the long run bkk -air will lose out too, think! And I am not in a state of sheer denial, but in the first row of the whole thing... I hear, I see, I listen... still some are doing well while others wither..and wilt away..

LaoPo

And "highdiver" mentioned a couple of interesting points...regarding the matter of over kill over supply....and well...ah well...

Another very important point is, which many insiders have known, is the fact that with the highly speculative land prices and cost of building per sqm and the resulting ROI is for some simply catastrophic, they have to ask high rates... and then having a global recession, it has been said already, mortgaged housing, next will be hotels and malls....there is much, much more to it!

Samuian: I better rest my case here since your answers with those colours confuse me and doesn't make it any easier for me to properly respond.

It seems we disagree about Bangkok Airways, their pricing, running and/or sharing their own airport but I wish you a very successful 2009 anyway.

Only time will tell.

LaoPo

[BusyBee123]

I wonder what the statistics are on the amount of money the tourists which are still coming are spending compared to a year ago...?

[mattias33]

2. Once again i beg to differ. i am very involved in Samui tourist association as well as being invested in tourist related business.. it is a fact that there are more tourist this year then last year. if you care to dispute this please do provide facts.. not hear say from bar owners..

Please read the op.

***no flaming***. You claim everybody knows nothing about this but you. As usuall.

In this case we have statements from airport manager. We have statements from tourist athority of thailand, but that is people without any knowledge. Highdiver is the one to ask. Samui tourism is going up, not down, everybody that claim otherwise is either a person with low iq, or been living in the ghostroad to long.

***no flaming***

[LaoPo]

I wonder what the statistics are on the amount of money the tourists which are still coming are spending compared to a year ago...?

There are not yet such statistics for Thailand (2008 versus 2007) and I doubt if there are special statistics for Samui/Phangan/Tao.

But you can search for expenditures per country-tourist in the link I provided earlier but that summary is just for 2007, here:

Table_Summary_2007.xls

LaoPo

[BusyBee123]

I wonder what the statistics are on the amount of money the tourists which are still coming are spending compared to a year ago...?

There are not yet such statistics for Thailand (2008 versus 2007) and I doubt if there are special statistics for Samui/Phangan/Tao.

But you can search for expenditures per country-tourist in the link I provided earlier but that summary is just for 2007, here:

Table_Summary_2007.xls

LaoPo

thanks, where are those stats from and how were they accumulated? i ask as i find it very hard to believe europeans spend less than south asia on a daily basis (india, bangladesh...) in fact we spend the least of all the continents in the world! i would have expected a much higher spend, maybe we are just tightwads?!

[LaoPo]

I wonder what the statistics are on the amount of money the tourists which are still coming are spending compared to a year ago...?

There are not yet such statistics for Thailand (2008 versus 2007) and I doubt if there are special statistics for Samui/Phangan/Tao.

But you can search for expenditures per country-tourist in the link I provided earlier but that summary is just for 2007, here:

Table_Summary_2007.xls

LaoPo

thanks, where are those stats from and how were they accumulated? i ask as i find it very hard to believe europeans spend less than south asia on a daily basis (india, bangladesh...) in fact we spend the least of all the continents in the world! i would have expected a much higher spend, maybe we are just tightwads?!

BusyBee...you really have to follow and read my posts a little better I'm probably the only one who really studied and searched for facts regarding tourism in Thailand and maybe next to only a very few others; I even wrote to TAT when they didn't publish the numbers anymore.

It's now published by the Office of Tourism Development and their website is a mess and very difficult to read; be my guest:

http://www.tourism.go.th/index.php?option=...0&Itemid=25

That some Asian countries spend more/day than European or other tourist countries is because they stay shorter and thus spend more; Europeans stay longer than any other nation and spend less per day but more in total.

You may also find that male tourism to Thailand versus female is (almost) 2 : 1....9.4 million males versus 5 million females and amazing enough (is it ?) male % is rising almost 15% whilst female tourism is declining -10%

Have fun studying.

LaoPo

[BusyBee123]

ah ha great stuff will have a look thanks shouldn't be to difficult to read i do this as part of my day job

[shakeydave]

As an owner of a travel agents back here in the UK ( not for long as I've sold up ) I would just like to point out that anybody who is booking what I call big holidays ie longhaul are getting fewer by the week.The situation in Thailand has not been helped by the airport protests but with that said the situation was the same with Kenya at the beging of 2008 after the election and travel slumped to just 30% of the normal figures and is now back to around 60% year on year.You also have the problem of people buying holiday homes that detracts from hotel and package figures as these are people who will book flights direct and as such are not counted as a tourist because they have not come on a package holiday.

The other thing that jumped out from this was that the figures are taken from Bangkok Airways and don't include the ferry passenger numbers and also the flights with Air Asia to Surit Thani. To get a true reflection every means of getting to Samui must be taken into account to reach the correct results.I have no doubt regardless anyway that tourism will be down in any country for the next 2 years as paying the bills back home become more important than a holiday.That said people will come back because it is now in our nature to travel so the thought of staying in Blighty and going to Blackpool for the week is enough to get the credit card out and jump on the plane.

Those that know me on this board know I'll be here for good next year and I can't wait and if there is more beach for me to enjoy then great.If I do have a comment to make it would be to make the Full Moon Party special again and not an any moon party and this would at least bring some kudos back to the area.

Only my thoughts on a great post so feel free to shoot me.

Laters

Shakeyd

[BusyBee123]

greedy git the beaches are hardly full anyway especially at lipa noi my favorite place to relax

[Gatorade]

What Samui urgently needs in my opinion is a decent connection to Kuala Lumpur + some promotion for it.

Most people still think that if you go to Thailand, you have to go to Bangkok first.

However, Kuala Lumpur has a BIG benefit : not only it can not be closed by the PAD, but it is also the hub for Air Asia. From over there, Air Asia operates almost all cities in Asia (unfortunately except Japan), but for a while also Australia and starting as from March London Stafford and some other cities are announced for next year. (return ticket London = approx 25.000 thb). Stafford is also an important hub for Ryan Air serving many European cities. This means that it is now possible to fly with a budget carrier from all over Europe, Asia and Australia to KL, and from there to Pukhet. NOT to Samui. And that's a pity in this difficult economic period.

Of course, you can take the bus or BKK Air from Phuket to Samui, but how may people will pay for it ? For them Samui is just the smaller brother of Phuket with similar beaches (and as some say a not so good reputation any more). Why pay much more to visit it ?

My idea is that in the future, KL airport will become more and more important in SE Asia. Just a pity it's passengers can not come to us....

Have Firefly and Berjayah Airlines stopped their operations to K.L from Samui? I think that the two airlines combined offered almost a daily service to the very convenient old K.L. airport.

[Nirvana]

i got a promotion email from bangkok airways today.

samui one-way is down to 2750 (all inclusive, frm dec. 1).

still 850 more than Chiang mai.

look around lamai bars, in 40 bars there are 15 customers.

Bauhaus is closed and others.

sure its still low season, but his is not low, this is reverse gear.

as some said above, the samui 'economy' has all the elements of a balloon scenario for years.

maybe the crunch will have to come.

If the ROI isn't there (and is sure isn't if you buy property), then the investor is relying on capital growth in the future to take a loss in the short term.

then if tourism stagnates or dies, investors can't pay mortgages, staff lose jobs, shops close,

classic ballon burst.

simple greed has caused the balloon, and a simplistic belief that samui can keep going up forever.

short term greed has caused all the problems others mention.

asking thai authorities to think ahead and plan? haa haa.......

it may not happen, but it certainly could.

Thai's largest industrial park dveloper has cut projects 50%

Local builder tells me 2 million out of work in bkk and maybe 4 million next year, many are coming south looking for work.

A global recession.

A closed international airport.

Foreign governments warning against travel to Thailand

A government in hiding.

You couldn't ask for more.

========================================

If it implodes, thai's will scratch their heads and mumble "what happened".

A mate recently (luckily) sold his bar,

the 12000 rent and 300,000 key money will be 14,000 and 600,000 next year on new lease,

yes the fools still bought it, I don't think they will last a year frankly.

landlords won't understand long term happy lessees until half their properties are empty.

until now there has always been another gullible/foolish farang come along and rent/buy,

A polyester beach towel, how much? "480 baht" , haaaa put it down with disgust...

she replies in defence "This is Koh Samui"

Nice post , BUT personally glad about the Bauhaus bar being closed. Is it closed on permanent basis ?

This is just the beginning of a very deep rut. Its only just begun....

[marcus]

What Samui urgently needs in my opinion is a decent connection to Kuala Lumpur + some promotion for it.

Most people still think that if you go to Thailand, you have to go to Bangkok first.

However, Kuala Lumpur has a BIG benefit : not only it can not be closed by the PAD, but it is also the hub for Air Asia. From over there, Air Asia operates almost all cities in Asia (unfortunately except Japan), but for a while also Australia and starting as from March London Stafford and some other cities are announced for next year. (return ticket London = approx 25.000 thb). Stafford is also an important hub for Ryan Air serving many European cities. This means that it is now possible to fly with a budget carrier from all over Europe, Asia and Australia to KL, and from there to Pukhet. NOT to Samui. And that's a pity in this difficult economic period.

Of course, you can take the bus or BKK Air from Phuket to Samui, but how may people will pay for it ? For them Samui is just the smaller brother of Phuket with similar beaches (and as some say a not so good reputation any more). Why pay much more to visit it ?

My idea is that in the future, KL airport will become more and more important in SE Asia. Just a pity it's passengers can not come to us....

Have Firefly and Berjayah Airlines stopped their operations to K.L from Samui? I think that the two airlines combined offered almost a daily service to the very convenient old K.L. airport.

Firefly goes to Penang, Berjaya 2 times a week with a dinky toy plane to KL. Not really enough to convince the crowds to take the KL route, I'm afraid

[thaierless]

i got a promotion email from bangkok airways today.

samui one-way is down to 2750 (all inclusive, frm dec. 1).

still 850 more than Chiang mai.

look around lamai bars, in 40 bars there are 15 customers.

Bauhaus is closed and others.

sure its still low season, but his is not low, this is reverse gear.

as some said above, the samui 'economy' has all the elements of a balloon scenario for years.

maybe the crunch will have to come.

If the ROI isn't there (and is sure isn't if you buy property), then the investor is relying on capital growth in the future to take a loss in the short term.

then if tourism stagnates or dies, investors can't pay mortgages, staff lose jobs, shops close,

classic ballon burst.

simple greed has caused the balloon, and a simplistic belief that samui can keep going up forever.

short term greed has caused all the problems others mention.

asking thai authorities to think ahead and plan? haa haa.......

it may not happen, but it certainly could.

Thai's largest industrial park dveloper has cut projects 50%

Local builder tells me 2 million out of work in bkk and maybe 4 million next year, many are coming south looking for work.

A global recession.

A closed international airport.

Foreign governments warning against travel to Thailand

A government in hiding.

You couldn't ask for more.

========================================

If it implodes, thai's will scratch their heads and mumble "what happened".

A mate recently (luckily) sold his bar,

the 12000 rent and 300,000 key money will be 14,000 and 600,000 next year on new lease,

yes the fools still bought it, I don't think they will last a year frankly.

landlords won't understand long term happy lessees until half their properties are empty.

until now there has always been another gullible/foolish farang come along and rent/buy,

A polyester beach towel, how much? "480 baht" , haaaa put it down with disgust...

she replies in defence "This is Koh Samui"

Nice post , BUT personally glad about the Bauhaus bar being closed. Is it closed on permanent basis ?

This is just the beginning of a very deep rut. Its only just begun....

Yep...just saw a report on BBC saying that the projections now are that Thailand's tourism numbers for this high season will be down SEVENTY percent!

[misterman21]

with respect to all those hard working investors who have put time and money into their businesses there , samui may just be starting to pay the price for the many years of tourists being treated like cash cows rather than being welcomed as visitors to that island.

the appaling road system , the blatant overcharging at almost every opportunity and last but not least the attitude of so many of the thais there towards visitors all have an effect on visitors memories and of their wish to return.

visually , once you step outside your resort/hotel , the place is just one big eyesore.

the island has a reputation now.

with so many other much better run and better value destinations available to try in this region , samui has almost become a "cliche" destination , like benidorm did , it shines brightly for a few years , and then slowly becomes boring , uncool , no fun , a place to avoid.

spot on 100% on the money ,good post.

As with most of the Thai tourist destinations - they are now starting to get what they deserve for the contempt in which they have held tourists for years.

For a country and culture big on Karma it seems odd that they aren't aware of it

[PoorSucker]

Firefly goes to Penang, Berjaya 2 times a week with a dinky toy plane to KL. Not really enough to convince the crowds to take the KL route, I'm afraid

Firefly goes to KL Mon, Wen, Fri & Sun

[marcus]

Firefly goes to Penang, Berjaya 2 times a week with a dinky toy plane to KL. Not really enough to convince the crowds to take the KL route, I'm afraid

Firefly goes to KL Mon, Wen, Fri & Sun

You are right ! Just checked their website and they have indeed improved their service ;-)

[samui04]

samui one-way is down to 2750 (all inclusive, frm dec. 1).

still 850 more than Chiang mai.

look around lamai bars, in 40 bars there are 15 customers.

Bauhaus is closed and others.

sure its still low season, but his is not low, this is reverse gear.

Well, less noise (Lami is really for sleepless peple)

Do they pay the girls every day doing nothing? Very bad business....

Folks in all the treads blaming everything forgot that WE HAVE A WORLDWIDE RECESSION! Nobody is buying cars, they are good for 10/15 years, why change them every 3? The vacation business will be back in 2 years, for now is very short trip very close home everywhere.

But Samui less crowded gets interesting for long stay, counting on 50% discount on food and accomodation, and at least a 20% lower baht to the USD/EUR. First time I made a stopover in Bangkok stuff was so cheap i bought an additional suitcase, now I can buy t-shirt cheaper in Europe. Same for Hong Kong.

Thailand was alive turistically simply becouse Africa and Central /South America are too dangerous, but now is robbery against chaos...The police not doing anything is a very bad sign, everybody will think South America....and run away.

[Comehome]

samui one-way is down to 2750 (all inclusive, frm dec. 1).

still 850 more than Chiang mai.

look around lamai bars, in 40 bars there are 15 customers.

Bauhaus is closed and others.

sure its still low season, but his is not low, this is reverse gear.

Well, less noise (Lami is really for sleepless peple)

Do they pay the girls every day doing nothing? Very bad business....

Folks in all the treads blaming everything forgot that WE HAVE A WORLDWIDE RECESSION! Nobody is buying cars, they are good for 10/15 years, why change them every 3? The vacation business will be back in 2 years, for now is very short trip very close home everywhere.

But Samui less crowded gets interesting for long stay, counting on 50% discount on food and accomodation, and at least a 20% lower baht to the USD/EUR. First time I made a stopover in Bangkok stuff was so cheap i bought an additional suitcase, now I can buy t-shirt cheaper in Europe. Same for Hong Kong.

Thailand was alive turistically simply becouse Africa and Central /South America are too dangerous, but now is robbery against chaos...The police not doing anything is a very bad sign, everybody will think South America....and run away.

Well said!

Couldn´t agree more!

[Boater]

Nice post , BUT personally glad about the Bauhaus bar being closed. Is it closed on permanent basis ?

This is just the beginning of a very deep rut. Its only just begun....

yes, it is permantently closed, as per typical thai buiness practice, the land owner raised the rent to some stupid amount, so the owner just packed up... 3 years ago this place used to be packed, taking about 200 K a night, but before he shut he was lucky to take 15 K.......

but the landlord is now sitting with an empty unit, but does he care..... NO

i just wait to see what happens next year when all the bars up the road ( opposite outback bar ) have to renew there leases with King Makio ... i think the street will die, as no one will be able to afford his rent hikes....

[mark lamai]

"up the road ( opposite outback bar ) "

that's the strip my mates bar is in (and me too).

if that example i gave will apply to all new leases then you may be right about many shutting shop and walking away.

the landlord certainly has the typical attitude,

also partly you have to blame the silly lessees,

if i wanted to get seriously injured i would form a tenants association... haa haa haa

the new tenant is paying 30,600 baht per month (including key money) for a single front 2 story shophouse/bar.

a rule of thunb says you need to sell product worth 4 times the rent to break even on monthly expenses,

(not including extras like bar girls).

so they need to sell 120,000 worth of beer etc in a month.

approx. 4000 takings per day,

oh dear, they are in deep sh*t !!!

[Boater]

the new tenant is paying 30,600 baht per month (including key money) for a single front 2 story shophouse/bar.

now that is expensive....

did he not read ' The dummies guide to owning a bar in lamai ' ?

i know the guy who owns Havana ( or what ever its name is opposite Eden Bar ) is trying to sell his bar for 2.1 odd million THB ... and i believe there is only 9 months left on the contract ! ,

so they need to sell 120,000 worth of beer etc in a month.

approx. 4000 takings per day,

A bar with over 5 customers along that road ( and we are not taking in the people in there who own the bars ) is considered busy..........

But who knowes the fate of the road... i think those this will all depend on the price increase in Rent,

Any others care to comment

[koheesti]

I asked this in another thread and haven't gotten a good answer. This looks like the right thread for it though...

Questions for you tourism experts...

Doesn't each time someone enters the country count as a tourist entry? In other words, if in the old days I made 12 border runs each year then I would count as 12 towards the overall number of 690,000 Americans who visited Thailand. And since the visa regualtions have changed and I had to get an actual visa and now only cross the border 4 times a year, that would mean that my personal contribution to tourism has decreased by 3 times.

Or does Thailand count each unique person only one time no matter how many times he or she enters the country?

Or do they only count how many are staying at hotels/resorts?

Also, do tourist counts include any foreigner that comes into the country for whatever reason, even if on business? If not, how can they tell by counting plane tickets, border crossings or hotel rooms how many came as tourists and how many for other reasons? If they count the number of visas issued, again, does that mean someeone adds to the total each time they enter the country?

[Boater]

I asked this in another thread and haven't gotten a good answer. This looks like the right thread for it though...

Questions for you tourism experts...

Doesn't each time someone enters the country count as a tourist entry? In other words, if in the old days I made 12 border runs each year then I would count as 12 towards the overall number of 690,000 Americans who visited Thailand. And since the visa regualtions have changed and I had to get an actual visa and now only cross the border 4 times a year, that would mean that my personal contribution to tourism has decreased by 3 times.

Or does Thailand count each unique person only one time no matter how many times he or she enters the country?

Or do they only count how many are staying at hotels/resorts?

Also, do tourist counts include any foreigner that comes into the country for whatever reason, even if on business? If not, how can they tell by counting plane tickets, border crossings or hotel rooms how many came as tourists and how many for other reasons? If they count the number of visas issued, again, does that mean someeone adds to the total each time they enter the country?

I maybe wrong here, but when i have seen the reports before, they where compiled by tourist arrivals by air only.....

[Samuian]

....edit....

but the landlord is now sitting with an empty unit, but does he care..... NO

.............edit....

Will be replaced with luvley garage-type units for 4.5 Mill keymoney and 45.000 rent p.M.

opposite Eden Bar ) is trying to sell his bar for 2.1 odd million THB ... and i believe there is only 9 months left on the contract ! ,

so they need to sell 120,000 worth of beer etc in a month.

approx. 4000 takings per day,

Chaweng on notorious strip where once upon a time some money was made... 270.00 down payment and 25.000 monthly net/ nothing included!

some tried to convince listeners that there is still a profit to be made if.... yes... IF...we will see many go down the drain, till things change for thebetter and people understand that much is about pricing... it simply can't go up, and up ... someone will learn a lesson here somewhere, much is vacant already on locations .... which makes one wonder..

Edited December 6, 2008 by Samuian

[thaierless]

I asked this in another thread and haven't gotten a good answer. This looks like the right thread for it though...

Questions for you tourism experts...

Doesn't each time someone enters the country count as a tourist entry? In other words, if in the old days I made 12 border runs each year then I would count as 12 towards the overall number of 690,000 Americans who visited Thailand. And since the visa regualtions have changed and I had to get an actual visa and now only cross the border 4 times a year, that would mean that my personal contribution to tourism has decreased by 3 times.

Or does Thailand count each unique person only one time no matter how many times he or she enters the country?

Or do they only count how many are staying at hotels/resorts?

Also, do tourist counts include any foreigner that comes into the country for whatever reason, even if on business? If not, how can they tell by counting plane tickets, border crossings or hotel rooms how many came as tourists and how many for other reasons? If they count the number of visas issued, again, does that mean someeone adds to the total each time they enter the country?

under the new rules foreigners like you on tourist visas now have 30 days then only get 15 new days on visa run....now you have to make a run every two weeks.