How Do You Think That Thai Visa Should Handle Political Threads About Thailand

[endure]

Unless it's the French of course, right?

I mean, that should be a given, surely . .

Of course....they need to be riddiculed, they deserve it....

With their 77 million tourist visitors a year I'm sure they're not particularly concerned.

[HorseDoctor]

In case you have not noticed, a lot of truths about Thai politics have come out this last week on Thai Visa and Internationally that have always been hushed up in the past. Who would have believed that the PAD want to get rid of ONE MAN, ONE VOTE Democracy until they admitted it themselves?

Just because you rather not believe something, does not make it untrue.

Until you can provide a documented source, quote from a PAD leader, or quoted interview in which the PAD have expressly stated that they want to get rid of farang and take their business (your words), I'll prefer to suspend judgement.

And an acceptable source does NOT include 'my friends told me'.

What about even more restrictive revisions to the FBA that were going through under the last caretaker govt? the PPP ( TRT) stopped that. I don't think it's unsubstantiated speculation that ThaksinCo is pro foreign and the opposition fairly against . I just read where the tourist visa rules were revised today only allow for 15 days, rather suddenly it seems .

I think any and all topics are fair game, including snide remarks steeped in sarcasm, simply ignore those that you find offensive facetious or boring. I think closing topics is downright censorship and not fit for a dynamic forum such as this , I try the other forums but they just don't have the juice, too much censorship , be polite etc . We are all adults here , aren't we ?

Edited December 4, 2008 by HorseDoctor

[bkkjames]

Unless it's the French of course, right?

I mean, that should be a given, surely . .

Of course....they need to be riddiculed, they deserve it....

With their 77 million tourist visitors a year I'm sure they're not particularly concerned.

I am sure we covered this in the thread Thailand vs France?

[HorseDoctor]

In answer to UG's question - I certainly don't think that real discussion of Thai politics should be banned............ but how much real discussion has there been compared to the tit-for-tat tauntings? While there are islands of intelligent comment and analysis, these are surrounded by shark-infested seas of heckling, jeering and mocking.

I guess I should have realised earlier that when the debate (?) started to be characterised more by "reds" versus "yellows" than a to-and-fro about policies, principles and practices - then the writing was on the wall. I previously compared this to the kindergarten/schoolyard scrap/drunken argument - but,with the team colours in mind, it probably has more in common with the mindless ya-boo rants and mutual hostility of rival football supporters.

Difficult to see a comprehensive solution - people will post as they want. If it were possible, I would like to see Mods deleting OTT or insulting posts much more widely than has been the case - as well as warning the offenders and banning repeat offenders (yellow card, red card........ oh, the irony! ). Obviously, there's currently the practical problem of too much traffic and not enough cops - as well as the issue of deciding (inevitably subjectively) what is OTT or not.

Here's a thought. Taking the analogy of stock markets moving out of pre-set limits (leading to trading being suspended so as to give things a chance to calm down), if the flow and content is getting out of the Mods' control - how about temporarily locking a thread so that a] it can be "weeded" and b] maybe, just maybe give some of the more hothead posters a chance to cool off ? The "locked" message should clearly state the reason.

Anyway, speaking for myself, I'm out of there - enough is already more than enough. I don't delude myself that my posts made any significant difference to the goings-on and fixed mindsets - so it follows that their absence will also have no effect. It would be good to say "it's been fun" - but it really hasn't been; rather it has been depressing to see so much spouted by both "sides" with the predictable Rambo tendency in the middle. When I think of our Thai hosts looking through much of what has been posted - frankly I don't see how that can be anything other than deeply embarrassing; it must surely have dispelled any lingering notion for them that farang are somehow superior.

But, it's good to finish on a lighter note, so I'll quote Douglas Adams from "The Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy".............. "So long - and thanks for all the fish".

Writing on public forums is an outlet, if any of us were out to change minds, or were good enough, we'd have columns in papers . We're amateurs- letting off steam.

I pointed out in another thread that we are not what we write, it is but one aspect just as an artist is not her painting, nor a musician their composition. There's lots of stupidity and then there are intelligent posts that are though provoking.

This forum is public, why should it be any less representative of the childish, sexist, stupid, SEX-PAThetic public than it is ?

Edited December 4, 2008 by HorseDoctor

[Soutpeel]

childish, sexist, stupid, SEX-PAThetic public than it is ?

You forgot racist, xenophobic, self righteous, anally retentive, judgemental and most likely a few more I have missed....

Feeling better now after venting ?...

Edited December 4, 2008 by Soutpeel

[wayfarer108]

It has become apparent that many of us have strong views on the Reds and Yellows and that many of us have chosen sides. Thai Visa has been a wonderful release the last week. Getting it off our chests why we feel the way we do. However, I can't see how we can keep sniping at each other without hurting the forum.

Should Thai politics be forbidden as American politics are, or do you have another idea about how Thai Visa should handle this problem without becoming too negative?

I think we should be allowed to post wild and unsubstantiated claims as to what different groups are going to do to farang, and then sit back and smile knowingly at the chaos our post has created.

In case you have not noticed, a lot of truths about Thai politics have come out this last week on Thai Visa and Internationally that have always been hushed up in the past. Who would have believed that the PAD want to get rid of ONE MAN, ONE VOTE Democracy until they admitted it themselves?

Just because you rather not believe something, does not make it untrue.

And just because you say something over and over doesn't make it true. Nothing in the Pad movement's platform suggests any anti-Western sentiment. The increasing restrictiveness of visa policies, minimum salaries for Western residents and so on that have come about in the last few years – including the most recent one announced last week -- have all been created by Thaksin/TRT/PPP appointees. Thaksin himself is famous for his public anti-farang statements, eg 'Don't listen to them when they criticise Thailand.'

[jdinasia]

It has become apparent that many of us have strong views on the Reds and Yellows and that many of us have chosen sides. Thai Visa has been a wonderful release the last week. Getting it off our chests why we feel the way we do. However, I can't see how we can keep sniping at each other without hurting the forum.

Should Thai politics be forbidden as American politics are, or do you have another idea about how Thai Visa should handle this problem without becoming too negative?

I think we should be allowed to post wild and unsubstantiated claims as to what different groups are going to do to farang, and then sit back and smile knowingly at the chaos our post has created.

or suggest that the people that think the "other side" is right are "drug users" and try and slip past the language buffers with terms like PADdophiles etc

I wouldn't suggest that people that do this type of trolling be banned or anything though

[siam4ever]

Thai politics is neatly divided into two categories, those things that very few know about, and those things that none may speak of.

[jdinasia]

childish, sexist, stupid, SEX-PAThetic public than it is ?

You forgot racist, xenophobic, self righteous, anally retentive, judgemental and most likely a few more I have missed....

Feeling better now after venting ?...

You didn't add "jealous of people actually in Thailand"

[Ulysses G.]

I wouldn't suggest that people that do this type of trolling be banned or anything though.

Well, that's a relief!

[fresnoboy]

I think that only my views should be allowed, because I am right every time and anybody who disagrees with me is simply wrong.

Without wishing to upset you, may I politely disagree, and express a different opinion ?

I have respect for your right, indeed would strongly support it, to hold a different point of view, it may indeed even be correct, in which case I may learn from you, and modify my own views.

However flaming, and name-calling, would tend to work against persuasion, so thank-you for not indulging in such childish practices, however tempting or satisfying that might sometimes be !

Lastly might I add, that we are all (well ... mostly) farangs here, and only commenting on what happens in Thailand, with humour upon occasion, so need not be exhorted to return to our native countries, if we might appear to some to be mildly critical at times.

What a civilized post !!!

[venturalaw]

Censorship = boring. Why are so many caught up on regulation? We are talking about using words to express our respective positions on issues. No person or entity is being taken hostage.

As long as no laws are broken, allow people to express themselves in written form.

[jdinasia]

Censorship = boring. Why are so many caught up on regulation? We are talking about using words to express our respective positions on issues. No person or entity is being taken hostage.

As long as no laws are broken, allow people to express themselves in written form.

Vulgar, threatening abusive posts are OK with you? (and yes laws get broken often .. remember this is Thailand and there are things you just cannot say legally)

[venturalaw]

Censorship = boring. Why are so many caught up on regulation? We are talking about using words to express our respective positions on issues. No person or entity is being taken hostage.

As long as no laws are broken, allow people to express themselves in written form.

Vulgar, threatening abusive posts are OK with you? (and yes laws get broken often .. remember this is Thailand and there are things you just cannot say legally)

It is ok with me that the person making "Vulgar, threatening abusive posts" just makes an ass out of him/herself. The freedom to express is what is important. However, there should be no laws broken, and for that, censorship is appropriate and required.

[jdinasia]

Censorship = boring. Why are so many caught up on regulation? We are talking about using words to express our respective positions on issues. No person or entity is being taken hostage.

As long as no laws are broken, allow people to express themselves in written form.

Vulgar, threatening abusive posts are OK with you? (and yes laws get broken often .. remember this is Thailand and there are things you just cannot say legally)

It is ok with me that the person making "Vulgar, threatening abusive posts" just makes an ass out of him/herself. The freedom to express is what is important. However, there should be no laws broken, and for that, censorship is appropriate and required.

You have all the freedom to express yourself at any site you create. This site has some basic rules. No flaming etc etc it at least opens the possibility of adult dialogue

[Misplaced]

It has become apparent that many of us have strong views on the Reds and Yellows and that many of us have chosen sides. Thai Visa has been a wonderful release the last week. Getting it off our chests why we feel the way we do. However, I can't see how we can keep sniping at each other without hurting the forum.

Should Thai politics be forbidden as American politics are, or do you have another idea about how Thai Visa should handle this problem without becoming too negative?

I think we should be allowed to post wild and unsubstantiated claims

Isn't that the norm on TV?

[jasreeve17]

I dislike censorship, and have no time for posters that try to get others banned. - Some posters blatantly bait with their fingers ready to send messages to the moderators; One poster has tried to bait me into instant ban territory on many occasions...

Spreading of pure hatred is too much and must be censored, as well as some rules specific to this country which must be abided by regardless of personal opinions. It's tough for anybody to know where to place the line and exactly when it has been broken.

Politics is an open area, and rightly so. We all benefit from open discussions. Long may the current set-up continue. With time, the ridiculous posters are ignored more and more, and most, not all, give up. Personally I don't use the button which allows you to not see unwanted members comments, but it's an option if you're soooooo irked.

Generally speaking the moderators managed the discussions well, I thought, pretty evenly balanced too.

Edited December 4, 2008 by jasreeve17

[Familyonthemove]

Can't see a reason to prevent political arguments in political posts... but I'd really appreciate a politics free pinned thread for factual information on disruptions due to demonstrations, travel issues at airports and safety risks etc - without it being bombarded with politics.

If someone takes the time to post an informative thread about the latest position at the airports, for example, it's unhelpful to have to wade through the 700 posts from the red and yellow camps sniping at each other whilst trying to find some info about diverted flights.

I already know that everyone with a red shirt has been paid 50,000 baht to wear it and everyone with a yellow shirt is a terrorist ... or is it the other way around? Anyway .... I just want to know which airport to head for or which buildings to avoid.

As a clue for the political enthusiasts amongst us .... a thread that starts with 'Airport closed ... ' is very likely to be for information, whereas a thread that starts; 'I blow my nose at the yellow shirted vandals' ... or... 'anyone who wears a red shirt should be hung from a lampost', for example .... is probably a deep intellectual discussion about Thai politics in the 21st Century.

[PeaceBlondie]

When some big event starts happening fast and latest developments are in the news, you do not need to read the vitriol. Just scan down for the obvious news announcements.

Locking a thread for less than a half hour might be good so that we can clear out the crap, award penalties to deserving posters, etc. But that is precisely when ten more posters are chomping at the bit to add their piece.

[mittheimp]

It seems to me that discussing Thai politics and especially this political crisis is futile when the underlying cause of the current mess and the reason Thailand may be sleep walking into a civil war can not be discussed. If that happens (admittedly the worst case scenario) it will be an absolute tragedy, but an avoidable one.

[jdinasia]

In answer to UG's question - I certainly don't think that real discussion of Thai politics should be banned............ but how much real discussion has there been compared to the tit-for-tat tauntings? While there are islands of intelligent comment and analysis, these are surrounded by shark-infested seas of heckling, jeering and mocking.

Yes, making sure that you heckle someone in every one of your posts seems vital to some people!

[bendix]

Precisely, mittheimp. And while it can't be discussed any discussion about Thai politics is pissing in the wind. The fact that it can't be discussed - not just here but anywhere in Thailand, is both Thailand's tragegy and shame. And it's all so unnecessary. By whipping itself into a reverential frenzy the nation has collectively backed itself into a corner it is going to find it increasingly hard to escape from. I genuinely fear for Thailand's future, and wouldnt be surprised if it becomes Philippines Mark 2 within a decade.

One more thing. Read The Economist. Nuff said.

Edited December 5, 2008 by bendix

[Steve2UK]

In answer to UG's question - I certainly don't think that real discussion of Thai politics should be banned............ but how much real discussion has there been compared to the tit-for-tat tauntings? While there are islands of intelligent comment and analysis, these are surrounded by shark-infested seas of heckling, jeering and mocking.

Yes, making sure that you heckle someone in every one of your posts seems vital to some people!

An admission at last? But it's not all your posts - just so many of them. Hyperbole.

[jdinasia]

In answer to UG's question - I certainly don't think that real discussion of Thai politics should be banned............ but how much real discussion has there been compared to the tit-for-tat tauntings? While there are islands of intelligent comment and analysis, these are surrounded by shark-infested seas of heckling, jeering and mocking.

Yes, making sure that you heckle someone in every one of your posts seems vital to some people!

An admission at last? But it's not all your posts - just so many of them. Hyperbole.

No, I was referring to yours

[mc2]

In answer to UG's question - I certainly don't think that real discussion of Thai politics should be banned............ but how much real discussion has there been compared to the tit-for-tat tauntings? While there are islands of intelligent comment and analysis, these are surrounded by shark-infested seas of heckling, jeering and mocking.

Yes, making sure that you heckle someone in every one of your posts seems vital to some people!

An admission at last? But it's not all your posts - just so many of them. Hyperbole.

steve2uk, dont feed the troll

Edited December 5, 2008 by mc2

[mc2]

I genuinely fear for Thailand's future, and wouldnt be surprised if it becomes Philippines Mark 2 within a decade.

ohh the doom and gloom

they are just going through growing pains,

the people expect/demand more from politicians, there is a growing awareness, I expect things to improve in a decade, after a period of pain and adjustment.

Edited December 5, 2008 by mc2

[Steve2UK]

In answer to UG's question - I certainly don't think that real discussion of Thai politics should be banned............ but how much real discussion has there been compared to the tit-for-tat tauntings? While there are islands of intelligent comment and analysis, these are surrounded by shark-infested seas of heckling, jeering and mocking.

Yes, making sure that you heckle someone in every one of your posts seems vital to some people!

An admission at last? But it's not all your posts - just so many of them. Hyperbole.

steve2uk, dont feed the troll

Sorry, boss - it won't happen again.

[Gravelrash]

Until you can provide a documented source, quote from a PAD leader, or quoted interview in which the PAD have expressly stated that they want to get rid of farang and take their business (your words), I'll prefer to suspend judgement.

Suspend judgement all you like, but it seems logical that a movement that wants to take the vote away from its own citizens and return Thailand to what it was like in the past, very well might not want foreigners around either. By the way, I did not say or mean that they plan on "taking our businesses", but that would be a side effect of getting rid of us.

When fair minded, well educated, Thai businessmen tell you that kind of information, I think that it is worth listening to and worth repeating.

It is very likely that it is true, but technically, I'll admit that I should not have stated it as a fact.

Don't listen to Stalin, he has his head in the sand. Sondhi has made comments re insulating Thailand from the rest of the world, and definitely is not pro-foreigner. Those comments are quoted in articles I am not sure if I can link to, however you may want to check the Economist or IHT.

However as PAD represents the status quo I would expect not much to change if they win this battle, it should be business as restrictive but allowing, as usual. PPP probably the same. Who wins for most foreigners I don't think is important, for Thais it would dependant on where they are in the food chain and their desire to remain there. But that is their choice. Just hope that the conflict isn't allowed to get out of hand by the win at all costs attitude of both sides. Ironically it could be better if Taksin was actually here in power, as being in-country he may cut a deal, being out-country he needs to win to get his foot back in the door.

They should have done the deal with him, one he could live with, after the coup.

[venturalaw]

Censorship = boring. Why are so many caught up on regulation? We are talking about using words to express our respective positions on issues. No person or entity is being taken hostage.

As long as no laws are broken, allow people to express themselves in written form.

Vulgar, threatening abusive posts are OK with you? (and yes laws get broken often .. remember this is Thailand and there are things you just cannot say legally)

It is ok with me that the person making "Vulgar, threatening abusive posts" just makes an ass out of him/herself. The freedom to express is what is important. However, there should be no laws broken, and for that, censorship is appropriate and required.

You have all the freedom to express yourself at any site you create. This site has some basic rules. No flaming etc etc it at least opens the possibility of adult dialogue

How could adult dialogue be suppressed in a written forum? That makes no sense. As for creating my own site for self-expression, am I to assume that you have created this site and therefore what you say goes? If so, you are in control, and will have it the way you wish. My only question is why did you start this thread when it is clear that you support censorship?

[jdinasia]

It has become apparent that many of us have strong views on the Reds and Yellows and that many of us have chosen sides. Thai Visa has been a wonderful release the last week. Getting it off our chests why we feel the way we do. However, I can't see how we can keep sniping at each other without hurting the forum.

Should Thai politics be forbidden as American politics are, or do you have another idea about how Thai Visa should handle this problem without becoming too negative?

Venturelaw ---- reading is fundamental .. The above post is the Original post/thread starter

Did I say I had control of this site? No

Are there posted rules which constitute terms of agreement for usage? Yes

are those rules available to you to peruse? yes

Do I agree to abide by those rules? yes

If you do not like those rules do you have options? yes

What are those options?

1) petition for them to be changed (not bloody likely)

2) cry about them in a thread (happens so often it is boring)

3) break them and be banned

4) create your own site where you make the rules