Translation Wanted Of Immigration Notice

[Mario2008]

Can someone translate the following notice on the immigration website?

กรณีคนต่างด้าวขอ Re-entry permit แล้วไม่สามารถเดินทางเข้ามาได้

คนต่างด้าวที่สงวนสิทธิ์การอยู่ในราชอาณาจักร (Re-entry permit) แล้วเดินทางออกไปนอกราชอาณาจักรไทย และกำหนดระยะเวลาการอยู่ในราชอาณาจักรสิ้นสุดลงระหว่างอยู่นอกราชอาณาจักรไทยตั้งแต่วันที่ 25 พ.ย.2551 เป็นต้นมา สำหรับประเทศที่ไม่ต้องขอรับ Visa สามารถเดินทางเข้าราชอาณาจักรไทยได้ ส่วนประเทศที่ต้องขอรับ Visa ต้องขอรับ Visa ก่อนเดินทางเข้าราชอาณาจักรไทย และหลังจากเดินทางเข้ามาในราชอาณาจักรแล้วให้รีบติดต่อพนักงานเจ้าหน้าที่ ณ ที่ทำการตรวจคนเข้าเมือง ซึ่งได้ทำเรื่องขอสงวนสิทธิ์การอยู่ในราชอาณาจักร (Re-entry permit) ไว้โดยเร็วที่สุด

posted on5 Dec 2008

Thanks.

[sabaijai]

I'm moving this topic to Thai Language since it's the only subforum where foreign language text is permitted by Forum Rules. Also you're more likely to get the assistance you need there.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Can someone translate the following notice on the immigration website?

กรณีคนต่างด้าวขอ Re-entry permit แล้วไม่สามารถเดินทางเข้ามาได้

คนต่างด้าวที่สงวนสิทธิ์การอยู่ในราชอาณาจักร (Re-entry permit) แล้วเดินทางออกไปนอกราชอาณาจักรไทย และกำหนดระยะเวลาการอยู่ในราชอาณาจักรสิ้นสุดลงระหว่างอยู่นอกราชอาณาจักรไทยตั้งแต่วันที่ 25 พ.ย.2551 เป็นต้นมา สำหรับประเทศที่ไม่ต้องขอรับ Visa สามารถเดินทางเข้าราชอาณาจักรไทยได้ ส่วนประเทศที่ต้องขอรับ Visa ต้องขอรับ Visa ก่อนเดินทางเข้าราชอาณาจักรไทย และหลังจากเดินทางเข้ามาในราชอาณาจักรแล้วให้รีบติดต่อพนักงานเจ้าหน้าที่ ณ ที่ทำการตรวจคนเข้าเมือง ซึ่งได้ทำเรื่องขอสงวนสิทธิ์การอยู่ในราชอาณาจักร (Re-entry permit) ไว้โดยเร็วที่สุด

posted on5 Dec 2008

Thanks.

In the case a Foreigner has already applied for a Re-entry permit but cannot enter the Kingdom.

Regarding a Foreigner who has received permission to stay in the Kingdom (Re-entry permit), after said foreigner leaves the Kingdom of Thailand, and the permitted period of stay in the Kingdom has expired while he or she is outside the Kingdom since the 25th day of November 2008 until now. A foreigner who comes from the countries exempted from visa requirement will be eligible to enter the Kingdom. A foreigner from non-exempted countries, after returning from an overseas country and entering the Kingdom, must contact the officer at the Immigration Office where such foreigner applied for permission to stay in the Kingdom (Re-entry) as soon as possible.

[tgeezer]

Can someone translate the following notice on the immigration website?

กรณีคนต่างด้าวขอ Re-entry permit แล้วไม่สามารถเดินทางเข้ามาได้

คนต่างด้าวที่สงวนสิทธิ์การอยู่ในราชอาณาจักร (Re-entry permit) แล้วเดินทางออกไปนอกราชอาณาจักรไทย และกำหนดระยะเวลาการอยู่ในราชอาณาจักรสิ้นสุดลงระหว่างอยู่นอกราชอาณาจักรไทยตั้งแต่วันที่ 25 พ.ย.2551 เป็นต้นมา สำหรับประเทศที่ไม่ต้องขอรับ Visa สามารถเดินทางเข้าราชอาณาจักรไทยได้ ส่วนประเทศที่ต้องขอรับ Visa ต้องขอรับ Visa ก่อนเดินทางเข้าราชอาณาจักรไทย และหลังจากเดินทางเข้ามาในราชอาณาจักรแล้วให้รีบติดต่อพนักงานเจ้าหน้าที่ ณ ที่ทำการตรวจคนเข้าเมือง ซึ่งได้ทำเรื่องขอสงวนสิทธิ์การอยู่ในราชอาณาจักร (Re-entry permit) ไว้โดยเร็วที่สุด

posted on5 Dec 2008

Thanks.

In the case a Foreigner has already applied for a Re-entry permit but cannot enter the Kingdom.

Regarding a Foreigner who has received permission to stay in the Kingdom (Re-entry permit), after said foreigner leaves the Kingdom of Thailand, and the permitted period of stay in the Kingdom has expired while he or she is outside the Kingdom since the 25th day of November 2008 until now. A foreigner who comes from the countries exempted from visa requirement will be eligible to enter the Kingdom. A foreigner from non-exempted countries, after returning from an overseas country and entering the Kingdom, must contact the officer at the Immigration Office where such foreigner applied for permission to stay in the Kingdom (Re-entry) as soon as possible.

Perhaps we could do a bit of language practise on this one. Does it not say that if you are from a non exempt country you should get a visa before entry? Logic says that both groups will want their original expired visas renewed as if unexpired, so both need to go to Immigration, although this is not clear.

[Mario2008]

Thanks for the translation Sunbelt.

[tgeezer]

Thanks for the translation Sunbelt.

So you don't mind it being wrong then!

[tgeezer]

Thanks for the translation Sunbelt.

So you don't mind it being wrong then!

I'll have another go. Noone seems to want to comment at all. Don't you think that it is interesting that just as we are discussing the use of the term รักษาสิทธิ์ we find another way of saying it สงวนสิทธิ์? This pops up on the Immigration site' I don't know if it is widely known but the re-entry permit is in English, but we see here that the translation is สงวนสิทธิ์การอยู่ในราชอาณาจักร์ (excuse spelling I should have noted it down) the interesting point is that it is nothing like กลับเข่้าเมือง or anything like that? just retain the right to stay in the country, When you leave you ขอสงวยสิทธิ์ฯ it is implicit that by leaving that you will lose the right. Or so it seems to me! anyone?

Edited December 8, 2008 by tgeezer

[mojaco]

Thanks for the translation Sunbelt.

So you don't mind it being wrong then!

I'll have another go. Noone seems to want to comment at all. Don't you think that it is interesting that just as we are discussing the use of the term รักษาสิทธิ์ we find another way of saying it สงวนสิทธิ์? This pops up on the Immigration site' I don't know if it is widely known but the re-entry permit is in English, but we see here that the translation is สงวนสิทธิ์การอยู่ในราชอาณาจักร์ (excuse spelling I should have noted it down) the interesting point is that it is nothing like กลับเข่้าเมือง or anything like that? just retain the right to stay in the country, the fact that you are leaving the country is implicit in the fact that it is only by leaving that you will lose the right. Or so it seems to me! anyone?

Seems to me สงวนสิทธิ์ is OK as it means "reserve the right" to be in the country. Rather like the "green card" (resident alien) card my wife used to have in the USA. It gave her the right to reside in the country. And that is the only card she needed to leave and re-enter the USA (other than her passport of course). But "legaleze" type Thai sentences give me a headache.

[DavidHouston]

I am concerned that Khun Geezer will become very anxious that he is not getting a direct answer to his question regarding the Immigration notice. I like the original translation which seems to be spot on with the original Thai. If you do not mind, however, I have tried to expand a bit on the original by adding parenthetical English inserts which might help clarify some of the ambiguity.

I think that Khun Geezer is confusing three separate issues which in his heart of hearts he knows are different: 1. What the Thai words actually say; 2. What the words should say were they to say what he wants them to say; and 3. What the Immigration officials actually intend to say.

My take is that foreign aliens entering the country would all have to go to visit an immigration office for a new visa after their visa has expired, whether they are in country our outside the country, just as Khun Geezer indicates. However, for that category of alien applicants who must pre-apply for entry into the Kingdom, the second subset, those individuals have a greater administrative hurdle in two respects. First, they must apply immediately on physical reentry and, second, they must return to the self-same immigration office from whence they obtained their original Reentry Permit. The other subset, presumably, does not have the requirement of immediacy and can apply at a different office.

Khun Geezer, if you do not agree, please be gentle with us. Go out and have a beer!

__________________________________

คนต่างด้าวที่สงวนสิทธิ์การอยู่ในราชอาณาจักร (Re-entry permit) แล้วเดินทางออกไปนอกราชอาณาจักรไทย และกำหนดระยะเวลาการอยู่ในราชอาณาจักรสิ้นสุดลงระหว่างอยู่นอกราชอาณาจักรไทยตั้งแต่วันที่ 25 พ.ย.2551 เป็นต้นมา

(The following rules apply to) aliens who have Reentry Permits to reside in the Kingdom and who later leave the Kingdom, if those Reentry Permits expire whilst (those aliens) are residing outside of the Kingdom effective on 25 October 2551:

สำหรับประเทศที่ไม่ต้องขอรับ Visa สามารถเดินทางเข้าราชอาณาจักรไทยได้

For (persons) from countries which do not require a visa for entry (to the Kingdom), (these persons) are permitted to reenter the country.

ส่วนประเทศที่ต้องขอรับ Visa ต้องขอรับ Visa ก่อนเดินทางเข้าราชอาณาจักรไทย และหลังจากเดินทางเข้ามาในราชอาณาจักรแล้วให้รีบติดต่อพนักงานเจ้าหน้าที่ ณ ที่ทำการตรวจคนเข้าเมือง ซึ่งได้ทำเรื่องขอสงวนสิทธิ์การอยู่ในราชอาณาจักร (Re-entry permit) ไว้โดยเร็วที่สุด

(On the other hand) with respect to (persons) from countries who are required to request visas (before entering the Kingdom), these persons must file a request for a Visa before entering the Kingdom and after they do in fact enter the Kingdom, they must immediately and as quickly as possible contact officials at the same Immigration office at which they initially requested the Reentry Permit.

____________________________________

[opalhort]

after re-reading the entire topic I found that my post was irrelevant

-deleted-

opalhort

Edited December 9, 2008 by opalhort

[tgeezer]

I am concerned that Khun Geezer will become very anxious that he is not getting a direct answer to his question regarding the Immigration notice. I like the original translation which seems to be spot on with the original Thai. If you do not mind, however, I have tried to expand a bit on the original by adding parenthetical English inserts which might help clarify some of the ambiguity.

I think that Khun Geezer is confusing three separate issues which in his heart of hearts he knows are different: 1. What the Thai words actually say; 2. What the words should say were they to say what he wants them to say; and 3. What the Immigration officials actually intend to say.

My take is that foreign aliens entering the country would all have to go to visit an immigration office for a new visa after their visa has expired, whether they are in country our outside the country, just as Khun Geezer indicates. However, for that category of alien applicants who must pre-apply for entry into the Kingdom, the second subset, those individuals have a greater administrative hurdle in two respects. First, they must apply immediately on physical reentry and, second, they must return to the self-same immigration office from whence they obtained their original Reentry Permit. The other subset, presumably, does not have the requirement of immediacy and can apply at a different office.

Khun Geezer, if you do not agree, please be gentle with us. Go out and have a beer!

__________________________________

คนต่างด้าวที่สงวนสิทธิ์การอยู่ในราชอาณาจักร (Re-entry permit) แล้วเดินทางออกไปนอกราชอาณาจักรไทย และกำหนดระยะเวลาการอยู่ในราชอาณาจักรสิ้นสุดลงระหว่างอยู่นอกราชอาณาจักรไทยตั้งแต่วันที่ 25 พ.ย.2551 เป็นต้นมา

(The following rules apply to) aliens who have Reentry Permits to reside in the Kingdom and who later leave the Kingdom, if those Reentry Permits expire whilst (those aliens) are residing outside of the Kingdom effective on 25 October 2551:

สำหรับประเทศที่ไม่ต้องขอรับ Visa สามารถเดินทางเข้าราชอาณาจักรไทยได้

For (persons) from countries which do not require a visa for entry (to the Kingdom), (these persons) are permitted to reenter the country.

ส่วนประเทศที่ต้องขอรับ Visa ต้องขอรับ Visa ก่อนเดินทางเข้าราชอาณาจักรไทย และหลังจากเดินทางเข้ามาในราชอาณาจักรแล้วให้รีบติดต่อพนักงานเจ้าหน้าที่ ณ ที่ทำการตรวจคนเข้าเมือง ซึ่งได้ทำเรื่องขอสงวนสิทธิ์การอยู่ในราชอาณาจักร (Re-entry permit) ไว้โดยเร็วที่สุด

(On the other hand) with respect to (persons) from countries who are required to request visas (before entering the Kingdom), these persons must file a request for a Visa before entering the Kingdom and after they do in fact enter the Kingdom, they must immediately and as quickly as possible contact officials at the same Immigration office at which they initially requested the Reentry Permit.

____________________________________

This provision is for poeple who found that they could not return to renew as planned because the Airports were closed. Apparently Immigration is prepared to treat them as if it had not happened, except that if you are not from an exempt country you must get a visa before coming back. I think ก่อนเดินทางเข้า means 'before travelling' apparently I am in a minority of one. A mysterious language indeed. TIT If you thought my interpretation was wrong why on earth didn't you say so? I have had my beer.

[DavidHouston]

Errata: my translation mistakenly translated "พ.ย." ("พฤศจิกายน") as "October". It should have been "November". Thank you for the PM.

Edited December 9, 2008 by DavidHouston

[tgeezer]

I am concerned that Khun Geezer will become very anxious that he is not getting a direct answer.(that is true)

Khun Geezer, if you do not agree, please be gentle with us. Go out and have a beer!

__________________________________

สำหรับประเทศที่ไม่ต้องขอรับ Visa สามารถเดินทางเข้าราชอาณาจักรไทยได้

For (persons) from countries which do not require a visa for entry (to the Kingdom), (these persons) are permitted to reenter the country.

ต้องขอรับ Visa ก่อนเดินทางเข้าราชอาณาจักรไทย และหลังจากเดินทางเข้ามาในราชอาณาจักรแล้วให้รีบติดต่อพนักงานเจ้าหน้าที่ ณ ที่ทำการตรวจคนเข้าเมือง ซึ่งได้ทำ On the other hand) with respect to (persons) from countries who are required to request visas (before entering the Kingdom), these persons must file a request for a Visa before entering the Kingdom and after they do in fact enter the Kingdom, they must immediately and as quickly as possible contact officials at the same Immigration office at which they initially requested the Reentry Permit.

____________________________________

I am sorry if this offends anyone but I must get this resolved.

Since your translation now includes the word 'before' it changes everything. Incidentally I don't think that ขอรับ which my dictionary defines as เป็นคำรับที่สุภาพชนใช้ means request. I would point out that although I can not check it while I write the original translation which you described as 'spot on' did not include before, I am sure of that because if it had there would have been no issue. A minor detail?

This is a language forum, I think, and I am more than happy to be wrong, mistakes are how I learn. I feel as though I am on a soccer field playing rugby and nobody wants to point out that I am kicking the ball over the bar.

[meadish_sweetball]

Incidentally I don't think that ขอรับ which my dictionary defines as เป็นคำรับที่สุภาพชนใช้ means request

Your dictionary is correct but it describes another usage, where ขอรับ is used like a more formal version of ครับ.

In this particular context, I think David's translation is correct.

Initially I tried to provide my own translation of this notice, but decided against it in the end, because honestly speaking I don't fully understand the original. It seems far too vague for such crucial information.

[tgeezer]

Incidentally I don't think that ขอรับ which my dictionary defines as เป็นคำรับที่สุภาพชนใช้ means request

Your dictionary is correct but it describes another usage, where ขอรับ is used like a more formal version of ครับ.

In this particular context, I think David's translation is correct.

Initially I tried to provide my own translation of this notice, but decided against it in the end, because honestly speaking I don't fully understand the original. It seems far too vague for such crucial information.

It seems that everyone is being obtuse over this and skating round the issue that the original translation by Sunbelt Asia is wrong. They are not going to respond, it is embarrasing for them and I understand that, TIT.

I know that it was a long while ago and you are doing your best to change the subject but we are talking about a letter from Immigration and you are now suggesting that ขอรับ is a more formal version of ครับ in that context are you? To further cloud the issue would it help if I brought up the only other ขอรับ in my dictionary which is part of a window or door latch, a noun.

ขอรับ is one of two words contructed of two verbs which I can recall where the second verb is the operative one, the other word, beloved of me is หากิน.

As to whose version is correct, I agree, the second version by David does include the word 'before' and in that particular is correct.

You seem to want me to drop it so I will. I have learnt a lot from it and not only about the Thai language.

[meadish_sweetball]

The translation from Sunbelt did have the omission you pointed out, as for its accuracy in other respects I really don't have much to say since, as I mentioned, I could not provide a better version I was sure was right.

The original text simply is not clear enough for me to dare do so. Since the author of the original text is not likely to comment on the issue, I am not sure how constructive further debate or finger-pointing will be, but I am not about to stop you from continuing to discuss it as long as you stay within the rules of the forum.

I was really not trying to change the subject, even if it may have seemed that way. I was merely pointing out that I thought David was correct in his translation of ขอรับ, because I felt I was certain enough about that usage to have an opinion.

[tgeezer]

The translation from Sunbelt did have the omission you pointed out, as for its accuracy in other respects I really don't have much to say since, as I mentioned, I could not provide a better version I was sure was right.

The original text simply is not clear enough for me to dare do so. Since the author of the original text is not likely to comment on the issue, I am not sure how constructive further debate or finger-pointing will be, but I am not about to stop you from continuing to discuss it as long as you stay within the rules of the forum.

I was really not trying to change the subject, even if it may have seemed that way. I was merely pointing out that I thought David was correct in his translation of ขอรับ, because I felt I was certain enough about that usage to have an opinion.

My dear Meadish,

What a shame that you feel that you have to be sure that you are right, I have no such contraints on me. What is your opinion now? on the subject of two verbs forming one word where the second word is the operative verb. The case of หากิน : to support life, looking wont support life but eating will. ขอรับ ask and you shall receive is not a universal rule outside religion. สู่ขอ just found that one, visiting and asking, specifically asking for the hand of a girl in marriage from her guardian. I am looking out for others examples, and hopefully, exceptions.

As to the text: instruction to people stranded outside the country with an out-of-date visa, call them 'A' The instruction is A will, enter the country and contact Immigration

1."('A') can enter the country and afterwards must contact Immigration." But some Ab come from a non-exempt country

2."(Aa and Ab) can enter the country and afterwards go to Immigration." But Ab actually need to have a visa.

3."(Aa) can enter the country directly as for (Ab after getting a visa they) can enter the country and afterwards contact Immigration."

As David observed, I am making it say what I want it to say, I am saying what I think it should have said because of what I know will actually happen. If, only the writer knows what he meant then it is of no use and better not written at all, and I would be surprised if that were the case. I don't know if my gut feeling that there should have been a 'both groups' after and is necessary in English either, there is much I do not know; I fear that this is not the place where I am going to find an answer. I shall start a new topic.

Edited December 12, 2008 by tgeezer

[tgeezer]

The translation from Sunbelt did have the omission you pointed out, as for its accuracy in other respects I really don't have much to say since, as I mentioned, I could not provide a better version I was sure was right.

The original text simply is not clear enough for me to dare do so. Since the author of the original text is not likely to comment on the issue, I am not sure how constructive further debate or finger-pointing will be, but I am not about to stop you from continuing to discuss it as long as you stay within the rules of the forum.

I was really not trying to change the subject, even if it may have seemed that way. I was merely pointing out that I thought David was correct in his translation of ขอรับ, because I felt I was certain enough about that usage to have an opinion.

My dear Meadish,

What a shame that you feel that you have to be sure that you are right, I have no such contraints on me. What is your opinion now? on the subject of two verbs forming one word where the second word is the operative verb. The case of หากิน : to support life, looking wont support life but eating will. ขอรับ ask and you shall receive is not a universal rule outside religion. สู่ขอ just found that one, visiting and asking, specifically asking for the hand of a girl in marriage from her guardian. I am looking out for others examples, and hopefully, exceptions.

As to the text: instruction to people stranded outside the country with an out-of-date visa, call them 'A' The instruction is A will, enter the country and contact Immigration

1."('A') can enter the country and afterwards must contact Immigration." But some Ab come from a non-exempt country

2."(Aa and Ab) can enter the country and afterwards go to Immigration." But Ab actually need to have a visa.

3."(Aa) can enter the country directly as for (Ab after getting a visa they) can enter the country and afterwards contact Immigration."

As David observed, I am making it say what I want it to say, I am saying what I think it should have said because of what I know will actually happen. If, only the writer knows what he meant then it is of no use and better not written at all, and I would be surprised if that were the case. I don't know if my gut feeling that there should have been a 'both groups' after and is necessary in English either, there is much I do not know; I fear that this is not the place where I am going to find an answer. I shall start a new topic.

No reply, just saving it in case I may learn more grammar or someone will appear as a contributer later, who knows the answer.