Tv Members And Political Correctness

[rgs2001uk]

If we take this to the lowest common denominator, does the state serve the people? or do people serve the state?

Therein may lie the answer, would be interested to hear the ops point of view.

[onzestan]

Here in UK no one has stopped putting up trees, wishing each other merry Christmas, putting up decorations, singing the carols, doing the nativity in schools etc so I wonder what countries the anti-pc folks claim they have been restricted?

Sorry to disappoint you Boo : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10...t-festival.html

cheers

onzestan

[Boo]

That looks to be a decision of a council to not hold a Christmas festival only, not a statement of law or demand that the whole of the UK to stop celebrating Christmas is it?

My local council has funded to put up street lights & trees,same as every year, the local schools have done their nativities & plays, same as every year & their are decorations up, the local mall has a giant tree & Santas grotto, shops have the decorations up, national television is showing Christmas adverts & Christmas shows.

So, not quite country wide & again, the choice of a few councils only.

[onzestan]

Here in UK no one has stopped putting up trees, wishing each other merry Christmas, putting up decorations, singing the carols, doing the nativity in schools etc so I wonder what countries the anti-pc folks claim they have been restricted?

Also read my first post on this topic, I was referring to the school in Germany where the children of my sister in law attend.

I've seen the pamphlet and at that time I didn't know that some people would imply that I'm lying or I would have taken a copy.

No malice intended

onzestan

Edited December 20, 2008 by onzestan

[endure]

Here in UK no one has stopped putting up trees, wishing each other merry Christmas, putting up decorations, singing the carols, doing the nativity in schools etc so I wonder what countries the anti-pc folks claim they have been restricted?

Sorry to disappoint you Boo : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10...t-festival.html

cheers

onzestan

And as usual the Daily Mail tells lies for its own purposes:

http://www.oxfordinspires.org/news/Stateme...ight-031108.htm

http://www.oxfordtimes.co.uk/news/3814694....n_on_Christmas/

[endure]

For those of you that don't know the UK newspaper scene very well during the 1930s the Daily Mail and its proprietor Lord Rothermere were staunch supporters of Hitler and the Nazis. Quoting from it is a bit of an own goal.

[garro]

Here in UK no one has stopped putting up trees, wishing each other merry Christmas, putting up decorations, singing the carols, doing the nativity in schools etc so I wonder what countries the anti-pc folks claim they have been restricted?

Sorry to disappoint you Boo : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10...t-festival.html

cheers

onzestan

Oh well, it must be true if it is in the Daily Mail. After all, they are well known as a bastion of fairness and in-depth reporting.

[onzestan]

OK, now I also have 2 board-members against me, so I'll refrain from posting on this topic.

Just one more question and that will be the end of it as far as I'm concerned.

What is politically correct about defending PC at all costs, ignoring valuable arguments and even proof of the fact that it has gone to far?

onzestan

[Boo]

Onzestan, I never said you were lying & if you read it that way then sorry. I did say "claim" as I, living in the UK, see no proof of many other claims of so called PC issues that some have mentioned. So to me these are just "claims" until I see some kind of proof. And as I knew already, the article you provide did not prove any such claims about Christmas in the UK.

Regards.

[garro]

For those of you that don't know the UK newspaper scene very well during the 1930s the Daily Mail and its proprietor Lord Rothermere were staunch supporters of Hitler and the Nazis. Quoting from it is a bit of an own goal.

The own goals just keep on coming. A few pages ago another anti-pc poster used a quote from a Nazi appologist as evidence of how PC was destroying the world. Then these people have the gall to accuse those who favour respect between groups of being Nazis.

Edited December 20, 2008 by garro

[onzestan]

For those of you that don't know the UK newspaper scene very well during the 1930s the Daily Mail and its proprietor Lord Rothermere were staunch supporters of Hitler and the Nazis. Quoting from it is a bit of an own goal.

I had not read this before submitting my last post.

I find your above statement very insulting and would like you to retract it.

For your information I'm not British and I don't care about the reputation of a British tabloid, but I do resent your implication that I'm a staunch supporter of Hitler and the Nazis.

2 family members of mine have been killed fighting the Germans, and another one was executed by the Gestapo because of being a member of the Belgian resistance, so don't you dare telling me what you just said.

If that's your way of being PC then I'm glad I don't belong to that group.

onzestan

[garro]

For those of you that don't know the UK newspaper scene very well during the 1930s the Daily Mail and its proprietor Lord Rothermere were staunch supporters of Hitler and the Nazis. Quoting from it is a bit of an own goal.

I had not read this before submitting my last post.

I find your above statement very insulting and would like you to retract it.

For your information I'm not British and I don't care about the reputation of a British tabloid, but I do resent your implication that I'm a staunch supporter of Hitler and the Nazis.

2 family members of mine have been killed fighting the Germans, and another one was executed by the Gestapo because of being a member of the Belgian resistance, so don't you dare telling me what you just said.

If that's your way of being PC then I'm glad I don't belong to that group.

onzestan

Isn't it a bit ironic that somebody against too much PC would now turn out to be against free speech if it concerns himself.

Edited December 20, 2008 by garro

[endure]

For those of you that don't know the UK newspaper scene very well during the 1930s the Daily Mail and its proprietor Lord Rothermere were staunch supporters of Hitler and the Nazis. Quoting from it is a bit of an own goal.

I had not read this before submitting my last post.

I find your above statement very insulting and would like you to retract it.

My post wasn't aimed at you. It was a general observation as to the politics of the Daily Mail. If you took unintended offence then I apologise. You'll note that I made the post in order to explain the agenda of the Daily Mail. The Daily Mail is a scurrilous rag which tells half truths in order to stoke xenophobia.

[onzestan]

For those of you that don't know the UK newspaper scene very well during the 1930s the Daily Mail and its proprietor Lord Rothermere were staunch supporters of Hitler and the Nazis. Quoting from it is a bit of an own goal.

I had not read this before submitting my last post.

I find your above statement very insulting and would like you to retract it.

For your information I'm not British and I don't care about the reputation of a British tabloid, but I do resent your implication that I'm a staunch supporter of Hitler and the Nazis.

2 family members of mine have been killed fighting the Germans, and another one was executed by the Gestapo because of being a member of the Belgian resistance, so don't you dare telling me what you just said.

If that's your way of being PC then I'm glad I don't belong to that group.

onzestan

Isn't it a bit ironic that somebody against too much PC would now turn out to be against free speech if it concerns himself.

If implying that I have Nazi sympathies is the only way for the PC crowd to defend their PC-ness against my arguments then I pity you.

I wonder if you would dare tell me the above to my face.

onzestan

[sbk]

I believe it has already been explained to you that nobody was implying you had Nazi sympathies.

That said, it is a bit much to complain when the shoe then appears to be on the other foot.

[onzestan]

For those of you that don't know the UK newspaper scene very well during the 1930s the Daily Mail and its proprietor Lord Rothermere were staunch supporters of Hitler and the Nazis. Quoting from it is a bit of an own goal.

I had not read this before submitting my last post.

I find your above statement very insulting and would like you to retract it.

My post wasn't aimed at you. It was a general observation as to the politics of the Daily Mail. If you took unintended offence then I apologise. You'll note that I made the post in order to explain the agenda of the Daily Mail. The Daily Mail is a scurrilous rag which tells half truths in order to stoke xenophobia.

I'm not the only one that interpreted you're remark for what I found it to be. Not for it's general content but for your final remark I highlighted. Read Garro's post.

Anyway this whole topic has strengthened my belief that PC maybe has had it's use, but that it's impossible to argue with the PC-crowd.

Apologies accepted, and this really is my last contribution to this topic, and maybe to the whole forum.

onzestan

[garro]

For those of you that don't know the UK newspaper scene very well during the 1930s the Daily Mail and its proprietor Lord Rothermere were staunch supporters of Hitler and the Nazis. Quoting from it is a bit of an own goal.

I had not read this before submitting my last post.

I find your above statement very insulting and would like you to retract it.

For your information I'm not British and I don't care about the reputation of a British tabloid, but I do resent your implication that I'm a staunch supporter of Hitler and the Nazis.

2 family members of mine have been killed fighting the Germans, and another one was executed by the Gestapo because of being a member of the Belgian resistance, so don't you dare telling me what you just said.

If that's your way of being PC then I'm glad I don't belong to that group.

onzestan

Isn't it a bit ironic that somebody against too much PC would now turn out to be against free speech if it concerns himself.

If implying that I have Nazi sympathies is the only way for the PC crowd to defend their PC-ness against my arguments then I pity you.

I wonder if you would dare tell me the above to my face.

onzestan

Oh please, there did not seem to be any problem during the last few pages of accusations that people who support PC are Nazis.

There is nothing I write on here that I would not repeat to people's faces. I make no attempt to hide my identity to anyone who wants to know.

Edited December 20, 2008 by garro

[dumball]

I do not think Onzestan was so concerned about free speach or PC in his rhetorical response , a quote or reference was made to historical happenings that gave him recall on the terrible happenings to members of his family .

Personaly I feel PC has reaped more harm than good due to the fact it tends to headline things or happenings no one would normally get excited or upset about , but whatever , none of it is realy worth a Tinkers cuss when it all boils down to the nitty-gritty of every day life and living .

The stage this thread has reached says it all , why don't we all just go to bed and forget about the nonsense , it has turned into a tit-for-tat , nobody going anywhere except crazy .

[Super Hans]

That looks to be a decision of a council to not hold a Christmas festival only, not a statement of law or demand that the whole of the UK to stop celebrating Christmas is it?

My local council has funded to put up street lights & trees,same as every year, the local schools have done their nativities & plays, same as every year & their are decorations up, the local mall has a giant tree & Santas grotto, shops have the decorations up, national television is showing Christmas adverts & Christmas shows.

So, not quite country wide & again, the choice of a few councils only.

So it's gone from "no one" to "a few"?

I just love you people!

The school next to where I used to live has also just announced it's abandoning festivities, presumable because most pupils are non christian. My old Regional Director - the most powerful civil servant in the region - abandoned christmas decorations etc in the office the other year, yet had the full bunting out for Divali and numerous other non christian festivals throughout the year. There really are zealots out there in public service - a frightening number. People ought to actually see this at first hand before commenting on whether it is "hyperbole" or not.

[For the record, I couldn't give a stuff about superfluous fluff like this. Not interested at all. What I am interested in is PC used as a tool of social control]

[Super Hans]

For those of you that don't know the UK newspaper scene very well during the 1930s the Daily Mail and its proprietor Lord Rothermere were staunch supporters of Hitler and the Nazis. Quoting from it is a bit of an own goal.

I had not read this before submitting my last post.

I find your above statement very insulting and would like you to retract it.

For your information I'm not British and I don't care about the reputation of a British tabloid, but I do resent your implication that I'm a staunch supporter of Hitler and the Nazis.

2 family members of mine have been killed fighting the Germans, and another one was executed by the Gestapo because of being a member of the Belgian resistance, so don't you dare telling me what you just said.

If that's your way of being PC then I'm glad I don't belong to that group.

onzestan

Isn't it a bit ironic that somebody against too much PC would now turn out to be against free speech if it concerns himself.

You, my friend, are an absolute genius. Just about everything you've ever said about those that are distrustful of PC could equally be applied to yourself.

[Boo]

You people, lol get over yourself luv!!!. That one council or the odd office have said they wont put up Christmas decorations is hardly mass oppression of peoples rights to celebrate Christmas or oppression of speech due to those pc devils . But besides, it was later proven that the article given was crap anyway, the Christmas tree, decorations & celebrations are going on in Oxford as usual just under a different name & including other festivals too. Presumably inclusion is ok or is that too pc as well

There is no legal restriction on anyone putting up decorations & no legal recourse to those who don't afaics, same with the festivals, nativity in schools etc. Sounds pretty fair to me. But then some people need little excuse to make mountains out of mole hills.

[Huey]

Ridiculous? You really have no concept of how humans react, do you? Yes, hate crimes are done in reaction to PC. Some people find it very hard to accept change, and they feel threatened. So when they are forced to comply with PC-related actions, or they find themselves affected by the same, they react in anger and lash out, sometimes committing hate crimes. Yes, it is those very same extreme anti-PC people, as they have been labeled in this thread, who are actually committing the crimes; but as I wrote, it is in reaction to various ideologies and affirmative actions being thrust on them. No excuse for said crimes, but they happen none-the-less.

That's a remarkable claim. I rather like the test of such things, that remarkable claims require remarkable evidence - But I'll settle for a link, if you can provide a link to research that demonstrates hate crimes are committed in reaction to Political Correctness I'd be really interested to read it - No really I would.

Just a note of caution, make sure you read the content of any link before you post it, I'd hate for you to kill your own argument with friendly fire again.

You write fairly elequently, so I would assume you have a modicum of intelligence. So do you really not understand that or are you just trolling for arguements for some sort of amusement?

Perhaps I'm looking for an answer to the question I asked right at the top of this thread. Or maybe I'm asking 'speak that I might know thee'.

There is after all a lot being revealed here.

OK, I give up. It is obvious to me, as others have warned me, that you are so set in yor ways that you could not see the truth if it came up and bit you in the butt. I am glad that you are so confident of your own righteousness to never wonder if you can learn something else. You have shown a remarkable proclivity for picking and choosing tidbits from others' posts to supposedly show the unilaterally correctness of your personal way of thinking. Or you misconstrue and read in to other things (such as you snide remark above--you chose to put your own intepretation on what I wrote, selected points which you thought refuted my contention, then refused to acknowledge my response back.)

If you have the unmitigated gall to say that hatemongers reaction to various PC-related prorgress our societies have enjoyed have never turned violent, then you are once again, living in a cocoon, or you are an enthusiatic troll who just loves to get a rise out of people. You seem to like to equate PC with the fight for racial equality. I have repeatedly stated that PC is much more than that. But since you are the one equating the two, how about this sad piece of American history?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_c..._worker_murders

No matter how you read into this, these young men were murdered by people who felt they were being forced to treat blacks with equality, something they were not ready to do.

Once again, before you try to twist my meaning again, these men were not murdered by PC-type people. But they were murdered in reaction to these young men doing PC-type work.

And since the more I read your posts, the more I think you are merely trolling for arguements, I will leave off searching for links for you as they do no good anyway.

Say what you want about Garro, at least he does read other posts with some degree of objectivity and can understand and acknowledge when someone else makes a valid point, all the while still retaining his fervent pro-PC stance.

Those people, those noble freedom fighters, died fighting the good fight, a fight that the PC movement embodies until this day. And if it where not for people like them fighting against the ignorance and hate that eventually claimed their lives, we would still be suffering through the Jim Crow style racism of the day, and lynchings would be much more common.

Using the old "This is the south(or any other area or people), you need time for people to change..." excuse is weak and enables racism and hate. The time for positive change is always now.

[Huey]

Here in UK no one has stopped putting up trees, wishing each other merry Christmas, putting up decorations, singing the carols, doing the nativity in schools etc so I wonder what countries the anti-pc folks claim they have been restricted?

Sorry to disappoint you Boo : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10...t-festival.html

cheers

onzestan

That's funny, Karma from the vicious history of colonialism coming back to haunt England. After centuries of subjugating other peoples beliefs and cultures around the world, the world finaly comes back home to the English and dilutes what they once considered traddional and sacred.

Sum num na.

The funny thing is..Its the English that do it too themselves.

I sure enjoyed our Thanksgiving day Parade here in Philly, complete with Pilgrims and Indians and Santa on the float...

[rgs2001uk]

That looks to be a decision of a council to not hold a Christmas festival only, not a statement of law or demand that the whole of the UK to stop celebrating Christmas is it?

My local council has funded to put up street lights & trees,same as every year, the local schools have done their nativities & plays, same as every year & their are decorations up, the local mall has a giant tree & Santas grotto, shops have the decorations up, national television is showing Christmas adverts & Christmas shows.

So, not quite country wide & again, the choice of a few councils only.

So it's gone from "no one" to "a few"?

I just love you people!

The school next to where I used to live has also just announced it's abandoning festivities, presumable because most pupils are non christian. My old Regional Director - the most powerful civil servant in the region - abandoned christmas decorations etc in the office the other year, yet had the full bunting out for Divali and numerous other non christian festivals throughout the year. There really are zealots out there in public service - a frightening number. People ought to actually see this at first hand before commenting on whether it is "hyperbole" or not.

[For the record, I couldn't give a stuff about superfluous fluff like this. Not interested at all. What I am interested in is PC used as a tool of social control]

Super Hans,

dont know if this is any use to you or not.

There is an organization called Common Purpose which is bedeviling UK life. It was started by a Fabian called Julia Middleton and many believe Common Purpose is a euphemism for Communist Party.

This organization has infiltrated every public service and many people believe it has encouraged bullying in the workplace and in society generally.

It meets behind closed doors where meetings are not minuted and members names are unrecorded.

Check it out on the web and YouTube.

It has expanded into Europe, and many believe it is deliberately ensuring public services fail, bully and become democratically unaccountable to a disillusioned electorate, in the way that communism does wherever it gets a hold.

You may also wish to read a book entitled, Captive State by George Monbiot, which condemned governmental and public organizations deliberately ignoring peoples wishes and either side stepping or subverting the democratic process out of a sense of, we know better.

Sound familiar? maybe we should go to the other end of the political spectrum and call the pc brigade Stalinists seeing as some object to being referred to as Nazis, not much difference between them both though.

Wasnt it Uncle Joe who said , you cant make an omelette without cracking eggs?

[Boo]

Huey, that article is not right, is just propaganda. The Christmas celebrations are in place there as they are all across the country. It's just this year, Oxford have chosen to include the other faiths that celebrate at this time in them too.

Which apparently is proof of political correctness gone mad.!

[Huey]

Huey, that article is not right, is just propaganda. The Christmas celebrations are in place there as they are all across the country. It's just this year, Oxford have chosen to include the other faiths that celebrate at this time in them too.

Which of course is proof of political correctness gone mad somehow?

I would hope it's not, Pretty lame if it is. I mean isn't like 90% of England Christian anyway?

[Huey]

And Yeah Boo, that's the new war cry of the modern day bigot. "PC is mind control!, I can't be myself because of PC!...it's, it's censorship!, it's un-(insert nation here)!,it's the tool of the Devil! (insert fiddle music here)"

[endure]

I do not think Onzestan was so concerned about free speach or PC in his rhetorical response , a quote or reference was made to historical happenings that gave him recall on the terrible happenings to members of his family .

Personaly I feel PC has reaped more harm than good due to the fact it tends to headline things or happenings no one would normally get excited or upset about , but whatever , none of it is realy worth a Tinkers cuss when it all boils down to the nitty-gritty of every day life and living ..

I don't. PC has made it so that people no longer think it's ok to call me a f**king poof and beat me severely enough to put me into hospital. It's all very well moaning about PCism when you're a part of the controlling majority. It's a different matter when you're a member of a minority. And yes - there are idiots who take it too far but, by and large, it's been a good thing.

[endure]

For those of you that don't know the UK newspaper scene very well during the 1930s the Daily Mail and its proprietor Lord Rothermere were staunch supporters of Hitler and the Nazis. Quoting from it is a bit of an own goal.

I had not read this before submitting my last post.

I find your above statement very insulting and would like you to retract it.

My post wasn't aimed at you. It was a general observation as to the politics of the Daily Mail. If you took unintended offence then I apologise. You'll note that I made the post in order to explain the agenda of the Daily Mail. The Daily Mail is a scurrilous rag which tells half truths in order to stoke xenophobia.

I'm not the only one that interpreted you're remark for what I found it to be. Not for it's general content but for your final remark I highlighted. Read Garro's post.

Then you're not the only one who misinterpreted it. I've apologised to you for any offence I may have caused you but I've no intention of apologising for, or retracting, my remarks about the politics and agenda of the Daily Mail.

[Boo]

It's all very well moaning about PCism when you're a part of the controlling majority. It's a different matter when you're a member of a minority. And yes - there are idiots who take it too far but, by and large, it's been a good thing.

That's about the crux of it