Tv Members And Political Correctness

[Super Hans]

I would certainly not want a stranger touching my child - it is just not worth the risk. Call that being overly PC if you wish.

If your child was falling down on the cement, you would not want a stranger to help them? Political correctness really is a strange disease!

Stopping a child fall is different from touching a child in the normal run of events, but if my son was falling so slowly that a stranger could catch them then I think it would be fine to risk the fall.

You have a comedic streak a mile wide.

[Super Hans]

Super Hans brings up the question do we want to rid ourselves of the hate gene? You would have to first prove that such a gene existed.

It was a philosophical question, used to determine how far the uberPC will go to control human behaviour. If you want language controlled, what else is there? Where do you draw the line? Lobotomy? Implants? Correctional facilities? Do you not see there is no end to political correctness?

Maybe hate can be "instilled and spread by language", but does the opposite hold true? Can hate be controlled and eliminated through language? I would suggest this is complete pish.

I note Super Hans you have now added the term 'Coward' to the stream of personal attacks you make upon those who disagree with you.

Oh please. I've been called all sorts, including a racist and a liar, yet these seem to slip through the net unnoticed. Strange.

Is it not therefore fitting that we ask, what part of Political Correctness do you really object to, that limitting your 'right' to abuse people with offensive language.... perhaps?

I object to it, as I've said ad nauseum, because it is an ideology, and ideologies are by their definition dangerous. I would have stood up and faced down the zealots in nazi germany, the zealots in Cambodia, the bastards in the balkans and any other movement that seeks to control its population.

You see, and this is the crux of the matter, ideologies - of whatever variety - DO NOT WORK.

You are, I assure you, making a very good case against your own cause.

Unfortunately for you, you're well behind the curve - we've lived in a post PC world for many years now. The public tired of Uberpolitical correctness ages ago. As my old man said to me last night after a refreshingly non PC Rab C Nesbit "isn't it lovely not having to worry about being PC any more"? And he's right, too. It's great to be free again. Long live sanity, and ALL who choose to sail in her.

[Super Hans]

Oh, so you think it is irrational and ignorant to fear pedophiles. Are they just misunderstood? I would certainly not want a stranger touching my child - it is just not worth the risk. Call that being overly PC if you wish.

Do you think paedophiles are more dangerous than accidents? Why don't you google the respective death rates? I think you may be surprised.

I'd really rather not live in such a paranoid society. I want my children to interact with other adults, and for other adults to look out for my children. I thought it was Margaret Thatcher who said "there is no such thing as society". Clearly it was a PC thug instead.

Actually, I wonder what percentage of uberPCers are only children? I bet it's well above average. Too much time on their hands, too much attention and too few doses of reality.

[Super Hans]

I'll respond on one point, however. Google turns up 160,000 anonymous discussions on muslim integration.

I think you'll find there is not a lot of anonymity when many of the discussions carry the title of the people/organistions discussing the issue.

The 'Black and White' issue here, is 'Black and White' evidence of discussion that you deny is taking place, is once more denied.

Putting asside the Golly <deleted>, have you one single case where you can demonstrate Political Correctness is causing the ills which you attribute to it?

You have told us of your many years on the civil service, and you mentioned Shysters, Snake Oil Salesmen and men in Shiney Suits but you have not given us a single example of how Political Correctness stopped you from doing your job as a Civil Servant. Not withstanding anything you are not allowed to talk about under the OSA, is there any example you can give us?

OSA? That's not stopped me so far!

Ok, here's the scenario I was faced with a few years ago. There is a recruitment exercise for low level admin staff. I have a second/third generation asian girl working for me as a casual. I'm her boss, but she does actual work for someone else - a PC thug as it happens - so I don't really see much of her day to day output. Girl applies for job, then does some work for me whilst PC thug is on holiday. I am shocked at the quality of work she provides - she lacks basic numeracy and literacy skills for starters, and her judgment is poor. I also discover she's 120 hours down on her flexi clock - she claims she doesn't understand the need to clock on for 37 hours a week. I like her as a person and we are good friends, but I could not in all conscience recommend her for a permanent position. The application process involves a line manager's assessment, which simply states "if this person is successful at interview, would you like them working for you?" This is a fairly euphemistic way of sifting out people who are no good - tick the "no" box and the applicant will not be offered a job, irrespective of their application and how they perform at interview. I am immediately (and very publicly) called into the director's office and asked to explain my decision. I do this robustly, with examples of her work as evidence. I'm told that that is irrelevant and I must revise my assessment as it is open to legal challenge on racial grounds. I refuse, my assessment is forcibly withdrawn and my director writes it instead. She is ranked 26th at interview, yet offered a job.

Just for those getting a twitch-on at this, I have made the exact same decision about dozens of other, white, people who did not meet the minimum requirements - none of these were queried.

Incidentally, the girl gets placed in the team dealing with community integration, along with every other asian people in the building. She is promoted within months of being made permanent against her will. She is unable to cope with new demands and is extremely unhappy. She resents management interference and hates PC with as much passion as I do. She also has some rather extreme views on immigration.

There are also countless examples of people being promoted because of their background, not their abilities. Some have even failed their interviews, yet been given the post. If you really think banging square pegs into round holes is the way to go, good luck to you. Is having a workforce that is reflective of the community more important than having the most competent workforce possible?

In terms of the job itself, there are examples too numerous to mention of how PC has been crowbarred into public policy. All government programmes have been adapted in recent years, many unnecessarily in my view.

The problem lies more within the recruitment policies; at least for now. In order to succeed you need to be able to demonstrate you've "out-diversified" your opponents. This is leading to a spiral of often unnecessary schemes, propagated by people whose intentions are nothing but naked ambition. They have spotted a mechanism for making pretty bloody comfortable careers for themselves, often with little or no added value. In such circumstances, PC becomes a runaway train.

I dont know how many can remember the days of affirmative action,(however well intentioned it may have been) or how many know of its consequences..

I can remember the days of affirmative action, and indeed I directly benefitted. Back in 1985 I applied for nurse training ( there were almost no males in nursing in my country back then ), and was accepted, despite better female applicants not even being interviewed, due, I am certain, to a desire to have more male nurses. This would be supported by the other 2 males on the course being totally unsuitable applicants ( IMO ), one of whom did not complete the course, and the other stopped nursing on graduation.

However, in my defence, I am still nursing, while the majority of the females on my course long ago gave it up ( mainly after getting married ), so I was probably one of the most cost effective students they enrolled.

Incidentally, there are lots more male nurses in the UK, where I now work in the NHS, to the extent that some days I work with no female nurses at all! Makes a change from being the only guy.

I also spent time in Antarctica in the '70s, when they were trying to get females down there. In fact they created a new position on the base just to be able to employ a female. While she was capable of doing the job ( kitchen duties ), she caused all sorts of tensions amongst the men, which is understandable when you have up to 60 males and two women ( one was a scientist ) on a very small base! I'm not saying there shouldn't be women there ( that would be very politically incorrect ), but the numbers should be more balanced, or not at all. ( I believe there are indeed lots of women down there these days. )

Where I disagree with affirmative action, is in the armed forces, where we now have a situation that allows female officers with no combat experience to command soldiers going into action ( themselves safely behind the lines ). The US recently announced that they have promoted their first female general.

I would have no problem with women that have been under fire commanding front line troops, but there's not a lot of them about, are there!

My main beef with PC, is where it is used by ignorant bureaucrats to justify being killjoys, mainly in forcing a majority of the population to suppress it's own culture/ religion in deference to a minority/ immigrant culture/ religion. In the UK there are countless instances of Christian rituals being banned "in case people of other religions object".

As for most of the other stuff blamed on PC, IMO it's just good manners not to use insulting language or actions directly to another person, regardless of color, race or creed. Why would anyone want to be able to insult someone else- not nice.

The only instance I can think of where PC ( if it can be applied in this case ) would be a "good thing", is where it is used to enforce equal access for the disabled/ less able.

Interesting what you say. I admire anyone working in the NHS.

Affirmative action, or positive discrimination, is fine until it's YOU that needs help. If I'm lying bleeding on the battlefield I really couldn't give a toss what the nurse looks like.

Do you have a view on which sex makes the more effective nurse?

I personally don't think it makes any difference, and that is after 23 years of nursing during which I have worked with hundreds if not thousands of nurses ( mainly female, obviously ) from all over the world.

Of course, there are always people who go nursing for the wrong reasons, and they are usually pretty rubbish. It's a fact, you can't teach uncaring people to care.

One benefit of working in a predominantly female occupation, is that I have lost any illusion of females being the "gentle" sex!

It took 23 years of nursing to notice that!

[eggomaniac]

But hey-ho, don't let that get in the way of a good rant.

<<<Careful what you say there, bud. Santas are not allowed to say Ho HO anymore, for fear of insulting prostitutes. Google, Santa/ yee haw/ ho, if you don't believe it.

----

I sawwww my caregiver kissing his or her life partner

underneath the organically grown, live, plant species

last night.....

---

First it was incorrect to say 'retarded'

Then 'handicapped' was a no no.

Did you know 'challenged' is now 'improper' terminology as well?

You have to say 'developmentally delayed!'

[isn't 'delayed' a synonym for 'retarded'?] sheesh

--------

Crudeness is a character flaw, right? Who is sticking up for the rights of the uncouth. It is not there fault they are retarded when it comes to correct etiquitte! I say it is harrassment!

They should supply us with free clinics to keep up with all the hoops to jump through.

---

That is one good thing about Thailand. If somebody is fat or ugly, people just say it.

[Super Hans]

But hey-ho, don't let that get in the way of a good rant.

<<<Careful what you say there, bud. Santas are not allowed to say Ho HO anymore, for fear of insulting prostitutes. Google, Santa/ yee haw/ ho, if you don't believe it.

----

I sawwww my caregiver kissing his or her life partner

underneath the organically grown, live, plant species

last night.....

---

First it was incorrect to say 'retarded'

Then 'handicapped' was a no no.

Did you know 'challenged' is now 'improper' terminology as well?

You have to say 'developmentally delayed!'

[isn't 'delayed' a synonym for 'retarded'?] sheesh

--------

Crudeness is a character flaw, right? Who is sticking up for the rights of the uncouth. It is not there fault they are retarded when it comes to correct etiquitte! I say it is harrassment!

They should supply us with free clinics to keep up with all the hoops to jump through.

---

That is one good thing about Thailand. If somebody is fat or ugly, people just say it.

Ever tried to explain political correctness to a Thai? Try it, it's good fun.

[GuestHouse]

So we have had to invent the 'Hate Gene' in order to ask the quesiton would those who support Political Correctness go down the path of past proponants of the language of hate and exterminate people they do not agree with. This argument given at the same time as giving a wide swerve on the fact that it is the language of hate that Goebels used to such deadly efficient effect.

The 'Hate Gene' does not exist - Period!

Ignorance and bigotry do.

---

Thaibeachlover - be assured fathers, or at least this father, is not at all afraid of hugging his children.

---

Bonobo, 'Political Correctness' is what it is. Political Correctness is not something esle that you want it to be in order to make your argument work. You give cases, such as the Khmere Rouge, which Garro has debunked for you.

[endure]

But hey-ho, don't let that get in the way of a good rant.

<<<Careful what you say there, bud. Santas are not allowed to say Ho HO anymore, for fear of insulting prostitutes. Google, Santa/ yee haw/ ho, if you don't believe it.

----

I sawwww my caregiver kissing his or her life partner

underneath the organically grown, live, plant species

last night.....

---

First it was incorrect to say 'retarded'

Then 'handicapped' was a no no.

Did you know 'challenged' is now 'improper' terminology as well?

You have to say 'developmentally delayed!'

[isn't 'delayed' a synonym for 'retarded'?] sheesh

--------

Crudeness is a character flaw, right? Who is sticking up for the rights of the uncouth. It is not there fault they are retarded when it comes to correct etiquitte! I say it is harrassment!

They should supply us with free clinics to keep up with all the hoops to jump through.

---

That is one good thing about Thailand. If somebody is fat or ugly, people just say it.

Ever tried to explain political correctness to a Thai? Try it, it's good fun.

But the Thais have their own version of political correctness in greng jai.

[Super Hans]

But hey-ho, don't let that get in the way of a good rant.

<<<Careful what you say there, bud. Santas are not allowed to say Ho HO anymore, for fear of insulting prostitutes. Google, Santa/ yee haw/ ho, if you don't believe it.

----

I sawwww my caregiver kissing his or her life partner

underneath the organically grown, live, plant species

last night.....

---

First it was incorrect to say 'retarded'

Then 'handicapped' was a no no.

Did you know 'challenged' is now 'improper' terminology as well?

You have to say 'developmentally delayed!'

[isn't 'delayed' a synonym for 'retarded'?] sheesh

--------

Crudeness is a character flaw, right? Who is sticking up for the rights of the uncouth. It is not there fault they are retarded when it comes to correct etiquitte! I say it is harrassment!

They should supply us with free clinics to keep up with all the hoops to jump through.

---

That is one good thing about Thailand. If somebody is fat or ugly, people just say it.

Ever tried to explain political correctness to a Thai? Try it, it's good fun.

But the Thais have their own version of political correctness in greng jai.

That's hardly comparable though, is it?

Tell one they cannot go to the aid of a distressed child because they may get sued and they'll say political correctness is ting tong.

[Super Hans]

So we have had to invent the 'Hate Gene' in order to ask the quesiton would those who support Political Correctness go down the path of past proponants of the language of hate and exterminate people they do not agree with. This argument given at the same time as giving a wide swerve on the fact that it is the language of hate that Goebels used to such deadly efficient effect.

{weary sigh}

The point is the language, use of rhetoric, metaphor and the other devices used by the uberPC chimes DIRECTLY with the tactics used by Goebels to such deadly effect.

Same shit, different day.

Bonobo, 'Political Correctness' is what it is. Political Correctness is not something esle that you want it to be in order to make your argument work. You give cases, such as the Khmere Rouge, which Garro has debunked for you.

You agreeing with garro's position does not make him correct. This is a lesson you need to learn.

Edited December 24, 2008 by Super Hans

[endure]

But hey-ho, don't let that get in the way of a good rant.

<<<Careful what you say there, bud. Santas are not allowed to say Ho HO anymore, for fear of insulting prostitutes. Google, Santa/ yee haw/ ho, if you don't believe it.

----

I sawwww my caregiver kissing his or her life partner

underneath the organically grown, live, plant species

last night.....

---

First it was incorrect to say 'retarded'

Then 'handicapped' was a no no.

Did you know 'challenged' is now 'improper' terminology as well?

You have to say 'developmentally delayed!'

[isn't 'delayed' a synonym for 'retarded'?] sheesh

--------

Crudeness is a character flaw, right? Who is sticking up for the rights of the uncouth. It is not there fault they are retarded when it comes to correct etiquitte! I say it is harrassment!

They should supply us with free clinics to keep up with all the hoops to jump through.

---

That is one good thing about Thailand. If somebody is fat or ugly, people just say it.

Ever tried to explain political correctness to a Thai? Try it, it's good fun.

But the Thais have their own version of political correctness in greng jai.

That's hardly comparable though, is it?

Tell one they cannot go to the aid of a distressed child because they may get sued and they'll say political correctness is ting tong.

I did say their own version. Greng jai would be considered tingtong by your average westerner.

[twschw]

girls

and i always thought it was a gentle term of endearment !

if the use of a word like "girl" can make you see yourself as the subjugated victim of some imaginary evil male plot , then perhaps you should get out more and consider the plight of some of the worlds true victims .... both male and female.

While I see your point, taxexile, old boy, I have noticed that some young women now refer to their male friends/companions of various kinds as "boys". I do find it a little odd ... but suppose the intention is to suggest some light heartedness in the relationship.

Would you refer to your wife or husband/long term partner as a girl or boy ?

Makes me think of those couples with kids who call eachother "Mum" or "Dad" !

Personally -- and for the following comments I will be flamed to a crisp -- I note that Western men who insist on referring to Asian women of various ages as "girls" tend to have a certain agenda that most of us will be more than familiar with.

"Ladies" is also a popular term. Often oddly capitalized, as in "My Thai Lady"/Wife . Rarely see use of "woman/women".

Just an observation.

Season's Greetings to all .

Is "Ladies in Thailand" an offensive title for a subforum? Is "Women in Thailand" or "Females in Thailand" more PC?

[garro]

Oh, so you think it is irrational and ignorant to fear pedophiles. Are they just misunderstood? I would certainly not want a stranger touching my child - it is just not worth the risk. Call that being overly PC if you wish.

Do you think paedophiles are more dangerous than accidents? Why don't you google the respective death rates? I think you may be surprised.

I'd really rather not live in such a paranoid society. I want my children to interact with other adults, and for other adults to look out for my children. I thought it was Margaret Thatcher who said "there is no such thing as society". Clearly it was a PC thug instead.

Actually, I wonder what percentage of uberPCers are only children? I bet it's well above average. Too much time on their hands, too much attention and too few doses of reality.

Huh, why would I examine the respective death rates??

I am satisfied that there is enough evidence that there are people who like to work closely with young children for the wrong reasons. If a grown man wants to touch children I want to know why he does before he goes anywhere near my child. I am not prepared to take the risk. This is not because I think that he will kill my child.

Like a couple of other posters here I worked as a nurse. As part of my training I needed to spend three months working on a secure unit. I got to see these people who abuse children. All of them seemed perfectly normal and friendly and all of them came from jobs where they had worked with young children. Do you see where I'm going with this? None of there crimes would have been seen in the death rates.

Edited December 24, 2008 by garro

[PhilHarries]

So now we have the anti-PC'ers claiming that the PC movement is responsible for the fear adults have of touching children and the demise of good old Santa Claus.

Are these people on drugs? The PC movement has nothing whatsoever to do with this issue. This is purely down to the fact that there are a lot of perverts out in the world plus there are a lot of litigeneous (?) folks just looking for a reason to sue somebody. Organisations that set up public events these days have to be so bluddy careful regarding safety etc and carry huge insurance against all manner of threats it is becoming just not worth the effort nor expense.

This has nothing to do with PC nor, as the bleating flock would have it, the "nanny state". It's all, specifically focussing on the PC anti Santa claims, to do with the number of sex offenders being put back into society without the necessary controls. This is nothing to do with PC but is a result of years of liberal policies towards criminals of all types and government's cost cutting measures to reduce prison populations. So don't blame PC'ness for it, if anybody blame the human rights movement and their focus on the rights of the criminal over those of the victims.

And don't blame the "nanny state", go look in the mirror. It is YOU the people who raise litigation because YOU couldn't pick your feet up and tripped over that paving slab. It is YOU the parents who abdicate from your responsibility for looking after YOUR children. [Excuse the off topic rant]

But of course the rabid anti-PC element won't have that preferring to blame anybody else but themselves for their woes. I'm a little surprised they haven't blamed global warming and the financial meltdown on PC yet.

I used to be anti-PC myself and have let loose some tirades against the actions of those who represent the movement. I still am anti some of the excesses but have come to realise that most of the examples of PC extremism are nothing more than one individual overstepping the mark or a newshound on a slow news day.

Don't believe everything you read in the SUN or the DAILY EXPRESS.

[bonobo]

---

Bonobo, 'Political Correctness' is what it is. Political Correctness is not something esle that you want it to be in order to make your argument work. You give cases, such as the Khmere Rouge, which Garro has debunked for you.

You write debunked. Doesn't make it so, just because you say so. I don't feel it was debunked at all.

Garro specifically objected to the Khmer Rouge as being an example of PC-like behavior because he felt the Khmer Rouge preached hate. And I pointed out that in their minds, they were preaching equality. And he never addressed the Vatican trying to save the world from eternal damnation by not allowing people to speak about the simple science of our solar system. To them, they were doing a good thing, good for Galileo, for example, and good for humanity.

I can detest what the Khmer Rouge did to their nation, and I can scoff at the Vatican, but if I wanted to pick and choose as either's PR man, I could write copy which would put a very noble and righteous slant on their actions. But the point is, whether for good or bad, they both espoused control of speech and ideas in their terms of what is Politically Correct.

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.  George Santayana

Of course the term "Politically Correct" is a fairly new term, so you are not going to read those exact words in Vatican documents. So if you need to read, in an historical document, a phrase such as "we adopted Political Correctness and were excessive in our application of it" in order to accept the fact that there can be excesses, well, then, we are out of luck, and further discussion is really just a waste of electrons. However, if you are astute enough and open-minded enough to draw parallels from history and either accept or refute (after consideration), then there is hope.  Drawing parallels is exactly what historians do. That is how we learn, that is how we don't make the same mistakes, that is how we make the world a better place.

Because I observed and been given examples of PC going too far, because I object to the fact that proper and respectful behavior has to be "political" and not simply "correct," I am labled here in this thread as "anti-PC," which is hardly the case.  I have lived my life in what most people would say is extremely PC (and yes, even before the phrase was coined.) I did it because it was right, not because others thought I should put on that face. And I have frankly been aghast at a few of the "anti-PC" posts here. But I am firm in my conviction that PC, like anything, can be taken to excess, and like anything, needs to be monitored.  So I get frustrated when people are so blind as not to see even the potential that they could be anything less than 100% right.  I am frustrated by what I see as Garro's naivite (but I have to point out, I rather like what his posts have revealed to me as his caring nature, and if we ever meet, I would like to shake his hand and buy him a drink), and I am extremely frustrated by your obstinance. OK, so I am frustrated.  I am a big boy and can live with it.

This thread has caused a good deal of introspective examination and soul-searching for me, and I have learned more about the world and have changed a little my own worldview, things that a thread about what Bangkok bar has the cheapest beer cannot elicit, so I do thank you for starting it.

[bonobo]

So now we have the anti-PC'ers claiming that the PC movement is responsible for the fear adults have of touching children and the demise of good old Santa Claus.

Are these people on drugs? The PC movement has nothing whatsoever to do with this issue. This is purely down to the fact that there are a lot of perverts out in the world plus there are a lot of litigeneous (?) folks just looking for a reason to sue somebody. Organisations that set up public events these days have to be so bluddy careful regarding safety etc and carry huge insurance against all manner of threats it is becoming just not worth the effort nor expense.

This has nothing to do with PC nor, as the bleating flock would have it, the "nanny state". It's all, specifically focussing on the PC anti Santa claims, to do with the number of sex offenders being put back into society without the necessary controls. This is nothing to do with PC but is a result of years of liberal policies towards criminals of all types and government's cost cutting measures to reduce prison populations. So don't blame PC'ness for it, if anybody blame the human rights movement and their focus on the rights of the criminal over those of the victims.

And don't blame the "nanny state", go look in the mirror. It is YOU the people who raise litigation because YOU couldn't pick your feet up and tripped over that paving slab. It is YOU the parents who abdicate from your responsibility for looking after YOUR children. [Excuse the off topic rant]

But of course the rabid anti-PC element won't have that preferring to blame anybody else but themselves for their woes. I'm a little surprised they haven't blamed global warming and the financial meltdown on PC yet.

I used to be anti-PC myself and have let loose some tirades against the actions of those who represent the movement. I still am anti some of the excesses but have come to realise that most of the examples of PC extremism are nothing more than one individual overstepping the mark or a newshound on a slow news day.

Don't believe everything you read in the SUN or the DAILY EXPRESS.

After reading this, I think you are right. I glossed over the first posts claiming this was as a result of an excess of PC and just sort of accepted it at face value.  This really has nothing to do with being PC but in fact the litigenous society in which we now live. That is the crux of the matter here.  A store which has a Santa Claus, as a deep pocket, cannot open itself up to lawsuits for real or imagined situations.

Now if a Santa Claus is not allowed to be there in the first place for fear of offending people who do not celebrate Christmas, well, that would be a different story, and that would be an excess of PC.

[Ijustwannateach]

^If it were a small neighborhood store where everyone knew the owners, then I don't think it's irresponsible for them to celebrate their own religion in-store.

On the other hand, if it was a major national commercial concern like Walmart or something, and there wasn't some attempt to do research on the local demographic and determine if they should also perhaps have some Channukah materials (or others, that's just an example) on hand as well as the Christmas things, then it is both rude and unimaginative. I don't think they should be sued for it- if it's private property, I don't think that would fly anyway- but the way things are going the majority in the U.S. and other English-speaking countries will not continue to be white, Christian, Anglo-Saxon, or possibly even English-speaking.

I think the litmus test for those who like to talk about "PC" (which is still a concept I haven't seen defined to my understanding) is whether they are comfortable with losing this position as actual or perceived members of the ostensible 'traditional' 'majority' in English-speaking countries and the privileges to which they think they are entitled as a result- including privileges of discriminatory or abusive language.

An equivalent concept in India might be the movement to promote the equality of the formerly 'untouchable' caste, including helping them to get more education, fighting negative language and stereotypes, and reserving some jobs for them against tremendous social prejudice. They face violence and discrimination on a daily basis, not unlike the position of African Americans as slaves in the U.S. Does India have "PC" then?

[bonobo]

An equivalent concept in India might be the movement to promote the equality of the formerly 'untouchable' caste, including helping them to get more education, fighting negative language and stereotypes, and reserving some jobs for them against tremendous social prejudice. They face violence and discrimination on a daily basis, not unlike the position of African Americans as slaves in the U.S. Does India have "PC" then?

There have been movements to improve the lot of the Dalits (or "Untouchables"). And there have been significant changes.  In Uttar Pradesh, they Dalits pretty much control the government, and many are in positions of significant economic power.  Even with some jobs which are still reserved for them, such as the burning of bodies, the financial rewards of that are significant.

But a good question on whether PC has taken any hold in India would be on the term "Dalit" itself.  THis is a self-imposed term which encompasses many of what the British called the "depressed classes." I don't know what Indians of other social spheres call them.

The Dalits still have along way to go, especially in the rural areas of India. They cannot go into some temples, and crimes agaisnt them are rampant. But there has been some progress.

(As an aside, to bring this into a little Thai focus, one of the first people in history to reject the caste system and preach inclusion of all people into society was Gautama Buddha.)

(As a double aside, isn't the Discovery Channel great? All these little facts stick in your head, and you never know when one show, like the one I saw on the Dalits, gives you the insight to comment on a subject)

Edited December 25, 2008 by bonobo

[bkkjames]

How can I in a politically correct way say this has got to be the most boring thread on TV. Right up their with PM changed his socks this morning.

Really guys / gals, it's Christmas, go to the pub, have a beer, watch a movie, get a life. I know its pretty dead around the office these days but sitting here debating one another about the correct way to write, speak, crap etc, is without doubt, the sadest thing since the invention of green shoelaces.

If you don't agree with me, please reply in a politically correct way or not in my absence.

But at least have fun doing it.

PC or not PC that is the question. Personally I prefer Mac but hey, it's a PC world and all this intel is making my micro-soft so I guess I will just have to log-off before putting another log on the fire.

[bonobo]

How can I in a politically correct way say this has got to be the most boring thread on TV. Right up their with PM changed his socks this morning.

Really guys / gals, it's Christmas, go to the pub, have a beer, watch a movie, get a life. I know its pretty dead around the office these days but sitting here debating one another about the correct way to write, speak, crap etc, is without doubt, the sadest thing since the invention of green shoelaces.

If you don't agree with me, please reply in a politically correct way or not in my absence.

But at least have fun doing it.

PC or not PC that is the question. Personally I prefer Mac but hey, it's a PC world and all this intel is making my micro-soft so I guess I will just have to log-off before putting another log on the fire.

Well, PC or not, this thread has obviously been of interest to a number of people. Not too many threads go on for this long nor have this many posts.

So if it is boring to you, and I can certainly see how this might be the case, well, then, don't read it. But as I wait for my dinner date to get off work so we can go have a Christmas feast, I am reading a novel on Julius Caesar and seeing what other people are posting here. That is because I find both (the novel and this thread) interesting.

Have a great Christmas evening!

[bkkjames]

How can I in a politically correct way say this has got to be the most boring thread on TV. Right up their with PM changed his socks this morning.

Really guys / gals, it's Christmas, go to the pub, have a beer, watch a movie, get a life. I know its pretty dead around the office these days but sitting here debating one another about the correct way to write, speak, crap etc, is without doubt, the sadest thing since the invention of green shoelaces.

If you don't agree with me, please reply in a politically correct way or not in my absence.

But at least have fun doing it.

PC or not PC that is the question. Personally I prefer Mac but hey, it's a PC world and all this intel is making my micro-soft so I guess I will just have to log-off before putting another log on the fire.

Well, PC or not, this thread has obviously been of interest to a number of people. Not too many threads go on for this long nor have this many posts.

So if it is boring to you, and I can certainly see how this might be the case, well, then, don't read it. But as I wait for my dinner date to get off work so we can go have a Christmas feast, I am reading a novel on Julius Caesar and seeing what other people are posting here. That is because I find both (the novel and this thread) interesting.

Have a great Christmas evening!

haha, that didn't take long. enjoy you evening!

[bonobo]

Knew you would appreciate that!  

I have foregone breakfast and lunch and got a good workout in, so I am certainly going to enjoy the food, and then we are going to meet some friends, so that should be great as well.

[bkkjames]

Knew you would appreciate that!  

I have foregone breakfast and lunch and got a good workout in, so I am certainly going to enjoy the food, and then we are going to meet some friends, so that should be great as well.

just remember to be PC when you eat - you know, close your mouth when you chew and don't take more bananas than you need.

[bonobo]

Knew you would appreciate that!  

I have foregone breakfast and lunch and got a good workout in, so I am certainly going to enjoy the food, and then we are going to meet some friends, so that should be great as well.

just remember to be PC when you eat - you know, close your mouth when you chew and don't take more bananas than you need.

If I have to close my mouth, that takes half of the fun out of it (Dang you PC'ers, trying to control my life like that!). But then again, the dribbling of masticated food down my shirt front can put some people off.

[thaibeachlovers]

So now we have the anti-PC'ers claiming that the PC movement is responsible for the fear adults have of touching children and the demise of good old Santa Claus.

Are these people on drugs? The PC movement has nothing whatsoever to do with this issue. This is purely down to the fact that there are a lot of perverts out in the world plus there are a lot of litigeneous (?) folks just looking for a reason to sue somebody. Organisations that set up public events these days have to be so bluddy careful regarding safety etc and carry huge insurance against all manner of threats it is becoming just not worth the effort nor expense.

This has nothing to do with PC nor, as the bleating flock would have it, the "nanny state". It's all, specifically focussing on the PC anti Santa claims, to do with the number of sex offenders being put back into society without the necessary controls. This is nothing to do with PC but is a result of years of liberal policies towards criminals of all types and government's cost cutting measures to reduce prison populations. So don't blame PC'ness for it, if anybody blame the human rights movement and their focus on the rights of the criminal over those of the victims.

And don't blame the "nanny state", go look in the mirror. It is YOU the people who raise litigation because YOU couldn't pick your feet up and tripped over that paving slab. It is YOU the parents who abdicate from your responsibility for looking after YOUR children. [Excuse the off topic rant]

But of course the rabid anti-PC element won't have that preferring to blame anybody else but themselves for their woes. I'm a little surprised they haven't blamed global warming and the financial meltdown on PC yet.

I used to be anti-PC myself and have let loose some tirades against the actions of those who represent the movement. I still am anti some of the excesses but have come to realise that most of the examples of PC extremism are nothing more than one individual overstepping the mark or a newshound on a slow news day.

Don't believe everything you read in the SUN or the DAILY EXPRESS.

Rubbish! PC is a state of mind, that has caused ( IMO ) people, mainly women, to regard single men with suspicion. Why else do women ASSUME that because a man is looking at them that he wants to have sex with them ( there has been another thread about this subject, so won't elaborate )? Why am I subjected to harrasment at the airport because they ASSUME I am a paedophile ( with no record or evidence )? Why do mothers ASSUME that any man who looks at their children want to abuse them? Why do the courts ASSUME that mothers make better parents than fathers?

IMO it's all part of the PC attitude, and is nothing to do with litigation. None of the cases above would involve litigation.

As for your claim that there are a "lot of perverts out there"; what are your statistics? Out of 6 billion people on earth, how many are perverts? You don't know, but you are contributing to the hysteria about perverts in the community. Fact- most child abuse is carried out by people who know the child- relatives!

The number of assaults by strangers is miniscule. Yet the FEAR of being accused is driving people to live paranoid lives. Yes, some fathers do fear being accused of inapropriate behaviour if they hug their children. Now that really is a "sick society"!

Being PC is also about other stuff of course, but IMO, the above is the worst effect of being a PC society.

Edited December 25, 2008 by thaibeachlovers

[garro]

So now we have the anti-PC'ers claiming that the PC movement is responsible for the fear adults have of touching children and the demise of good old Santa Claus.

Are these people on drugs? The PC movement has nothing whatsoever to do with this issue. This is purely down to the fact that there are a lot of perverts out in the world plus there are a lot of litigeneous (?) folks just looking for a reason to sue somebody. Organisations that set up public events these days have to be so bluddy careful regarding safety etc and carry huge insurance against all manner of threats it is becoming just not worth the effort nor expense.

This has nothing to do with PC nor, as the bleating flock would have it, the "nanny state". It's all, specifically focussing on the PC anti Santa claims, to do with the number of sex offenders being put back into society without the necessary controls. This is nothing to do with PC but is a result of years of liberal policies towards criminals of all types and government's cost cutting measures to reduce prison populations. So don't blame PC'ness for it, if anybody blame the human rights movement and their focus on the rights of the criminal over those of the victims.

And don't blame the "nanny state", go look in the mirror. It is YOU the people who raise litigation because YOU couldn't pick your feet up and tripped over that paving slab. It is YOU the parents who abdicate from your responsibility for looking after YOUR children. [Excuse the off topic rant]

But of course the rabid anti-PC element won't have that preferring to blame anybody else but themselves for their woes. I'm a little surprised they haven't blamed global warming and the financial meltdown on PC yet.

I used to be anti-PC myself and have let loose some tirades against the actions of those who represent the movement. I still am anti some of the excesses but have come to realise that most of the examples of PC extremism are nothing more than one individual overstepping the mark or a newshound on a slow news day.

Don't believe everything you read in the SUN or the DAILY EXPRESS.

Rubbish! PC is a state of mind, that has caused ( IMO ) people, mainly women, to regard single men with suspicion. Why else do women ASSUME that because a man is looking at them that he wants to have sex with them ( there has been another thread about this subject, so won't elaborate )? Why am I subjected to harrasment at the airport because they ASSUME I am a paedophile ( with no record or evidence )? Why do mothers ASSUME that any man who looks at their children want to abuse them? Why do the courts ASSUME that mothers make better parents than fathers?

IMO it's all part of the PC attitude, and is nothing to do with litigation. None of the cases above would involve litigation.

As for your claim that there are a "lot of perverts out there"; what are your statistics? Out of 6 billion people on earth, how many are perverts? You don't know, but you are contributing to the hysteria about perverts in the community. Fact- most child abuse is carried out by people who know the child- relatives!

The number of assaults by strangers is miniscule. Yet the FEAR of being accused is driving people to live paranoid lives. Yes, some fathers do fear being accused of inapropriate behaviour if they hug their children. Now that really is a "sick society"!

Being PC is also about other stuff of course, but IMO, the above is the worst effect of being a PC society.

The percentage of the population which are involved in this activity is unknown. The number of unreported cases is unknown. So how do you know that it is mostly committed by relatives? Almost all of my friends admit to at least being groped as a kid.

In the past this abuse was hidden away and offenders knew that chances are they would get away with it. People did not take the claims seriously and accused those making them of being hysterical. There were similar claims to what you are making about how it all was exaggerated.

Now it may not suit you that grown-ups have to be more cautious around children, but I think that it is a great step forward. I have worked with young children and now work with older children. In my last occupation there were many precautions taken to safeguard the children and even though these safeguards could be inconvenient I supported them 100%. My sympathy is far more with the child than the person who misses been able to touch kids he doesn't know. If a stranger wants to touch my child he better have a good reason.

As far as your comments about western woman. I have never noticed the claims that you are making against them.

Edited December 25, 2008 by garro

[thaibeachlovers]

So now we have the anti-PC'ers claiming that the PC movement is responsible for the fear adults have of touching children and the demise of good old Santa Claus.

Are these people on drugs? The PC movement has nothing whatsoever to do with this issue. This is purely down to the fact that there are a lot of perverts out in the world plus there are a lot of litigeneous (?) folks just looking for a reason to sue somebody. Organisations that set up public events these days have to be so bluddy careful regarding safety etc and carry huge insurance against all manner of threats it is becoming just not worth the effort nor expense.

This has nothing to do with PC nor, as the bleating flock would have it, the "nanny state". It's all, specifically focussing on the PC anti Santa claims, to do with the number of sex offenders being put back into society without the necessary controls. This is nothing to do with PC but is a result of years of liberal policies towards criminals of all types and government's cost cutting measures to reduce prison populations. So don't blame PC'ness for it, if anybody blame the human rights movement and their focus on the rights of the criminal over those of the victims.

And don't blame the "nanny state", go look in the mirror. It is YOU the people who raise litigation because YOU couldn't pick your feet up and tripped over that paving slab. It is YOU the parents who abdicate from your responsibility for looking after YOUR children. [Excuse the off topic rant]

But of course the rabid anti-PC element won't have that preferring to blame anybody else but themselves for their woes. I'm a little surprised they haven't blamed global warming and the financial meltdown on PC yet.

I used to be anti-PC myself and have let loose some tirades against the actions of those who represent the movement. I still am anti some of the excesses but have come to realise that most of the examples of PC extremism are nothing more than one individual overstepping the mark or a newshound on a slow news day.

Don't believe everything you read in the SUN or the DAILY EXPRESS.

Rubbish! PC is a state of mind, that has caused ( IMO ) people, mainly women, to regard single men with suspicion. Why else do women ASSUME that because a man is looking at them that he wants to have sex with them ( there has been another thread about this subject, so won't elaborate )? Why am I subjected to harrasment at the airport because they ASSUME I am a paedophile ( with no record or evidence )? Why do mothers ASSUME that any man who looks at their children want to abuse them? Why do the courts ASSUME that mothers make better parents than fathers?

IMO it's all part of the PC attitude, and is nothing to do with litigation. None of the cases above would involve litigation.

As for your claim that there are a "lot of perverts out there"; what are your statistics? Out of 6 billion people on earth, how many are perverts? You don't know, but you are contributing to the hysteria about perverts in the community. Fact- most child abuse is carried out by people who know the child- relatives!

The number of assaults by strangers is miniscule. Yet the FEAR of being accused is driving people to live paranoid lives. Yes, some fathers do fear being accused of inapropriate behaviour if they hug their children. Now that really is a "sick society"!

Being PC is also about other stuff of course, but IMO, the above is the worst effect of being a PC society.

The percentage of the population which are involved in this activity is unknown. The number of unreported cases is unknown. So how do you know that it is mostly committed by relatives? Almost all of my friends admit to at least being groped as a kid.

In the past this abuse was hidden away and offenders knew that chances are they would get away with it. People did not take the claims seriously and accused those making them of being hysterical. There were similar claims to what you are making about how it all was exaggerated.

Now it may not suit you that grown-ups have to be more cautious around children, but I think that it is a great step forward. I have worked with young children and now work with older children. In my last occupation there were many precautions taken to safeguard the children and even though these safeguards could be inconvenient I supported them 100%. My sympathy is far more with the child than the person who misses been able to touch kids he doesn't know. If a stranger wants to touch my child he better have a good reason.

As far as your comments about western woman. I have never noticed the claims that you are making against them.

OK, the ACTUAL/ UNREPORTED number not known, but reported/ prosecuted mainly known to the abused.

Whom were your friends all groped by? Stranger adults, adult relatives, siblings, schoolfriends? It makes a difference!

I pity you, assuming ALL men are perverts. What a paranoid life. Perhaps you should not have had children, if the world is such a terrible place. What will you do when they are old enough to want to go off on their own? Lock them up?

The way western women are paranoid about men is a frequent and topical discussion subject by most western men ( that I know or have met ).

BTW, you don't need to worry about me touching your child. Even lying bleeding to death, I will get a female to save its life. People with your attitude make me far too paranoid to go anywhere near a child. I used to work in a paediatric ward, but would never do so now, as people like you would accuse me of being a paedophile.

[Ulysses G.]

As far as your comments about western woman. I have never noticed the claims that you are making against them.

Are you for real?

[GuestHouse]

As Phil Harries rightly pointed out, this is another example of Political Correctness being blamed for something which is nothing to do with Political Correctness.

Interestingly, the News Papers and Media that promotes an Anti-PC message are also those that pump out the message that Pedophiles are hiding around every corner.

They are also the same 'News' sources that delight in condemning single men for visiting Thailand.

[Maigo6]

As Phil Harries rightly pointed out, this is another example of Political Correctness being blamed for something which is nothing to do with Political Correctness.

Yeah, but is it politically correct to blame political correctness on something that has has nothing to do with political correctness ?