Tv Members And Political Correctness

[GuestHouse]

Think about it for a second. Doesn't that sound like the party line for Hitler and the Nazi Party? They said they had to equalize centuries of injustice suffered at the hands of the thieiving and subhuman Jews?

I think you'll find that the claims made here in this thread about 'Governments who support the will of the majority over the will of the minority' ... 'Societies Defending their own Culture', 'Minorities etc etc are more in keeping of what Hitler had to say.

Your argument that Hate Crimes are perpetrated as a reaction to Political Correctness is ridiculous, you'll be telling me next that Russian Skinheads are killing foreigners in Moscow because the Nazis who they apparently fashion themselves on (evidenced by photos taken with Nazi Swastikas) are in committing their crimes because the Allies defeated the Nazis.

Hate crimes are committed by people in who are reacting to ... Hate.

[spud1]

You'll have to remind me where anyone here is suggesting banning religion content from religious festivals.

Or is this yet another example of Anti-PC Hyperbole?

Keeping religion out of schools is something else. The French, you may recall are doing just that and, as a point of note, it is a policy they apply to all faiths... including the Christians.

Nothing to do with 'Political Correctness' not a Crusade against Christianity (excuse the Pun) simply the segregation of state and religion. You do not have to be a supporter of Political Correctness to support the Segregation of Religion and State, clearly not, since it is a concept that predates Political Correctness.

But PC blurs the lines between individual and collective freedoms, surely?

As you mention France's approach to religion and politics, I think we can learn a great deal from it. Their approach is, I think, "you're not Christian, or Muslim or Jew - you're French" Consequently, they can ban the veil in schools, for instance, without the rapid nutjobs screaming about their human rights.

This seems a very sensible way path to follow. Reasonable policies, reasonably implemented is the way to go. These policies need to be open to challenge without fear of prejudice or reprisal. THAT is the trick the PCers miss.

You've hit the nail on the head pal,with the word reasonable.Certain fundamental PC hyporcrites are no doubt sat in there 5 star accommodation,residing in possibly one of the worlds most anti-pc states, spouting the merits of PC.

[Super Hans]

Think about it for a second. Doesn't that sound like the party line for Hitler and the Nazi Party? They said they had to equalize centuries of injustice suffered at the hands of the thieiving and subhuman Jews?

I think you'll find that the claims made here in this thread about 'Governments who support the will of the majority over the will of the minority' ... 'Societies Defending their own Culture', 'Minorities etc etc are more in keeping of what Hitler had to say.

Your argument that Hate Crimes are perpetrated as a reaction to Political Correctness is ridiculous, you'll be telling me next that Russian Skinheads are killing foreigners in Moscow because the Nazis who they apparently fashion themselves on (evidenced by photos taken with Nazi Swastikas) are in committing their crimes because the Allies defeated the Nazis.

Hate crimes are committed by people in who are reacting to ... Hate.

Not true at all. Were prison camp guards gassing jews through hatred? There is plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise. As i mentioned, I used to be a civil servant - I would be the EXACT type of person planning the logistics of these things in times of war. Would I have felt I was PERSONALLY murdering jews because I hated them by making sure the trains ran on time? I doubt it. But I do know how easy it is to manipulate people into doing these things without batting an eyelid. I read a study recently that suggested only about 10% of the population are able to disassociate themselves from such evil - the majority go along with it, blindly.

All you need is an ideology - any ideology - and enough zealots to carry it out.

[Super Hans]

As for examples of hate crimes caused by PC. Pick up the Sun or the Daily (Hate) Mail newspaper. Have a look what is happening in certain UK northern cities. You know it, I know it. PC causes hate crimes.

Yup. The danger of PC for me is, you're not allowed to talk about it. We have become a self-censoring society, which is extremely dangerous. I remember this kindly old dear on Question Time once, who dared to say there were real differences between white and asian communities. She implored the politicians to listen to her concerns. She was shot down in flames by (and I'll be kind) young, idealistic audience members, who cited the odd example of harmonious integration as evidence that multiculturalism has been a riproaring success.

This was in Oldham, shortly before the race riots.

There is a real schism in our society - those that accept PC and those that totally and utterly reject it. The former seem to think it is just a question of educating the thickies before they come round to their way of thinking. What they fail to grasp is, everyone gets it, most just reject it. THIS is what pisses people off.

[Super Hans]

Think about it for a second. Doesn't that sound like the party line for Hitler and the Nazi Party? They said they had to equalize centuries of injustice suffered at the hands of the thieiving and subhuman Jews?

I think you'll find that the claims made here in this thread about 'Governments who support the will of the majority over the will of the minority' ... 'Societies Defending their own Culture', 'Minorities etc etc are more in keeping of what Hitler had to say.

Your argument that Hate Crimes are perpetrated as a reaction to Political Correctness is ridiculous, you'll be telling me next that Russian Skinheads are killing foreigners in Moscow because the Nazis who they apparently fashion themselves on (evidenced by photos taken with Nazi Swastikas) are in committing their crimes because the Allies defeated the Nazis.

Obviously not PC to say it, but a resurgent Russia scares me to f@cking death.

[GuestHouse]

Not true at all. Were prison camp guards gassing jews through hatred? There is plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise. As i mentioned, I used to be a civil servant - I would be the EXACT type of person planning the logistics of these things in times of war. Would I have felt I was PERSONALLY murdering jews because I hated them by making sure the trains ran on time? I doubt it.

But I do know how easy it is to manipulate people into doing these things without batting an eyelid.

I read a study recently that suggested only about 10% of the population are able to disassociate themselves from such evil - the majority go along with it, blindly.

All you need is an ideology - any ideology - and enough zealots to carry it out.

Yes I'm sure you do, so did Goebbels. I'm also sure you know he used the language of hatred, segregation, dehumanization, denial of common humanity, the argument of 'us' and 'them' and the fostering of fear that 'others' where controlling, spoiling, corrupting the 'Heimat'.

Sound familiar?

[bonobo]

Think about it for a second. Doesn't that sound like the party line for Hitler and the Nazi Party? They said they had to equalize centuries of injustice suffered at the hands of the thieiving and subhuman Jews?

I think you'll find that the claims made here in this thread about 'Governments who support the will of the majority over the will of the minority' ... 'Societies Defending their own Culture', 'Minorities etc etc are more in keeping of what Hitler had to say.

Your argument that Hate Crimes are perpetrated as a reaction to Political Correctness is ridiculous, you'll be telling me next that Russian Skinheads are killing foreigners in Moscow because the Nazis who they apparently fashion themselves on (evidenced by photos taken with Nazi Swastikas) are in committing their crimes because the Allies defeated the Nazis.

Hate crimes are committed by people in who are reacting to ... Hate.

Ridiculous?  You really have no concept of how humans react, do you?  Yes, hate crimes are done in reaction to PC.  Some people find it very hard to accept change, and they feel threatened. So when they are forced to comply with PC-related actions, or they find themselves affected by the same, they react in anger and lash out, sometimes committing hate crimes.  Yes, it is those very same extreme anti-PC people, as they have been labeled in this thread, who are actually committing the crimes; but as I wrote, it is in reaction to various ideologies and affirmative actions being thrust on them.  No excuse for said crimes, but they happen none-the-less.  

You write fairly elequently, so I would assume you have a modicum of intelligence. So do you really not understand that or are you just trolling for arguements for some sort of amusement? 

[Super Hans]

You'll have to remind me where anyone here is suggesting banning religion content from religious festivals.

Or is this yet another example of Anti-PC Hyperbole?

Keeping religion out of schools is something else. The French, you may recall are doing just that and, as a point of note, it is a policy they apply to all faiths... including the Christians.

Nothing to do with 'Political Correctness' not a Crusade against Christianity (excuse the Pun) simply the segregation of state and religion. You do not have to be a supporter of Political Correctness to support the Segregation of Religion and State, clearly not, since it is a concept that predates Political Correctness.

But PC blurs the lines between individual and collective freedoms, surely?

As you mention France's approach to religion and politics, I think we can learn a great deal from it. Their approach is, I think, "you're not Christian, or Muslim or Jew - you're French" Consequently, they can ban the veil in schools, for instance, without the rapid nutjobs screaming about their human rights.

This seems a very sensible way path to follow. Reasonable policies, reasonably implemented is the way to go. These policies need to be open to challenge without fear of prejudice or reprisal. THAT is the trick the PCers miss.

While we may, perhaps learn a great deal from it, what we might learn is that France's policies have not been a roaring success concerning non-Christian French citizens. You might consider this website, which is a series of articles regarding the massive riots of 2005.

http://riotsfrance.ssrc.org/

Yeah, I did mean to add a rider to my post about the drawbacks that approach may provoke. However, the UK has chosen to go the other way, and allow all faiths and immigrant groups to maintain their existing identities, and this has led to similar civil unrest. Overall, I prefer the French approach as it's less complicated, promotes unity and does not piss off the indigenous population.

[GuestHouse]

You've hit the nail on the head pal,with the word reasonable.Certain fundamental PC hyporcrites are no doubt sat in there 5 star accommodation,residing in possibly one of the worlds most anti-pc states, spouting the merits of PC.

I thought we'd got past this Spud.. or are you still having difficulty addressing the argument, rather than the person who makes the argument?

[Super Hans]

Not true at all. Were prison camp guards gassing jews through hatred? There is plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise. As i mentioned, I used to be a civil servant - I would be the EXACT type of person planning the logistics of these things in times of war. Would I have felt I was PERSONALLY murdering jews because I hated them by making sure the trains ran on time? I doubt it.

But I do know how easy it is to manipulate people into doing these things without batting an eyelid.

I read a study recently that suggested only about 10% of the population are able to disassociate themselves from such evil - the majority go along with it, blindly.

All you need is an ideology - any ideology - and enough zealots to carry it out.

Yes I'm sure you do, so did Goebbels. I'm also sure you know he used the language of hatred, segregation, dehumanization, denial of common humanity, the argument of 'us' and 'them' and the fostering of fear that 'others' where controlling, spoiling, corrupting the 'Heimat'.

Sound familiar?

Yes, it sounds very much like political correctness to me. All your arguments are equally applicable to PC.

[GuestHouse]

Ridiculous? You really have no concept of how humans react, do you? Yes, hate crimes are done in reaction to PC. Some people find it very hard to accept change, and they feel threatened. So when they are forced to comply with PC-related actions, or they find themselves affected by the same, they react in anger and lash out, sometimes committing hate crimes. Yes, it is those very same extreme anti-PC people, as they have been labeled in this thread, who are actually committing the crimes; but as I wrote, it is in reaction to various ideologies and affirmative actions being thrust on them. No excuse for said crimes, but they happen none-the-less.

That's a remarkable claim. I rather like the test of such things, that remarkable claims require remarkable evidence - But I'll settle for a link, if you can provide a link to research that demonstrates hate crimes are committed in reaction to Political Correctness I'd be really interested to read it - No really I would.

Just a note of caution, make sure you read the content of any link before you post it, I'd hate for you to kill your own argument with friendly fire again.

You write fairly elequently, so I would assume you have a modicum of intelligence. So do you really not understand that or are you just trolling for arguements for some sort of amusement?

Perhaps I'm looking for an answer to the question I asked right at the top of this thread. Or maybe I'm asking 'speak that I might know thee'.

There is after all a lot being revealed here.

[Super Hans]

The teaching/spreading of hate, fear, xenophobia, the twisting or religion.... these things are forgotten I suppose?!

Thing is, I don't see any evidence for these things at all, and haven't for decades. I repeat: PC has run its course.

The only spreading of hate I see today is from the mad mullahs, yet the PC thugs say this is ok. Freedom of speech only applies to certain groups. Whether this is real or perceived is not the point. The point is we're not allowed to even discuss it. A self-serving minority determines what the majority can say.

Eric Arthur Blair will be spinning in his grave.

[Super Hans]

You've hit the nail on the head pal,with the word reasonable.Certain fundamental PC hyporcrites are no doubt sat in there 5 star accommodation,residing in possibly one of the worlds most anti-pc states, spouting the merits of PC.

I thought we'd got past this Spud.. or are you still having difficulty addressing the argument, rather than the person who makes the argument?

He has a good point though. How dare someone in a such privileged position lecture the rest of us? Go have 5 kids and live in a sink estate for a few years and see how much priority you give to PC. It won't be much, I promise you.

Patronising and arrogant, the PC lot.

[Super Hans]

That's a remarkable claim. I rather like the test of such things, that remarkable claims require remarkable evidence - But I'll settle for a link, if you can provide a link to research that demonstrates hate crimes are committed in reaction to Political Correctness I'd be really interested to read it - No really I would.

Do you REALLY think PC doesn't piss people off enough for them to act on it? That's startlingly naive.

Rather than lauding it over people from your ivory towers, why don't you go inner city areas and actually speak to those that are anti PC. You may be in for a shock. But I suspect you're like the rest of the PC brigade - too snobby to mix with such riff-raff.

[GuestHouse]

The teaching/spreading of hate, fear, xenophobia, the twisting or religion.... these things are forgotten I suppose?!

Thing is, I don't see any evidence for these things at all, and haven't for decades. I repeat: PC has run its course.

The only spreading of hate I see today is from the mad mullahs, yet the PC thugs say this is ok. Freedom of speech only applies to certain groups. Whether this is real or perceived is not the point. The point is we're not allowed to even discuss it. A self-serving minority determines what the majority can say.

Eric Arthur Blair will be spinning in his grave.

That's odd SP, because I don't recall any supporter of Political Correctness arguing that ideas and religion is above question. And I believe I am correct is saying that a number of 'mad Mullahs' have been successfully prosecuted under the UK's Religions Hatred Law - A law that many of the Anti-PC brigade objected to.

Freedom of speech and accountability to Hate Laws obviously applies to everyone.

No laws against Hyperbole have been passed ..... yet

[bonobo]

Ridiculous? You really have no concept of how humans react, do you? Yes, hate crimes are done in reaction to PC. Some people find it very hard to accept change, and they feel threatened. So when they are forced to comply with PC-related actions, or they find themselves affected by the same, they react in anger and lash out, sometimes committing hate crimes. Yes, it is those very same extreme anti-PC people, as they have been labeled in this thread, who are actually committing the crimes; but as I wrote, it is in reaction to various ideologies and affirmative actions being thrust on them. No excuse for said crimes, but they happen none-the-less.

That's a remarkable claim. I rather like the test of such things, that remarkable claims require remarkable evidence - But I'll settle for a link, if you can provide a link to research that demonstrates hate crimes are committed in reaction to Political Correctness I'd be really interested to read it - No really I would.

Just a note of caution, make sure you read the content of any link before you post it, I'd hate for you to kill your own argument with friendly fire again.

You write fairly elequently, so I would assume you have a modicum of intelligence. So do you really not understand that or are you just trolling for arguements for some sort of amusement?

Perhaps I'm looking for an answer to the question I asked right at the top of this thread. Or maybe I'm asking 'speak that I might know thee'.

There is after all a lot being revealed here.

OK, I give up.  It is obvious to me, as others have warned me, that you are so set in yor ways that you could not see the truth if it came up and bit you in the butt.  I am glad that you are so confident of your own righteousness to never wonder if you can learn something else.  You have shown a remarkable proclivity for picking and choosing tidbits from others' posts to supposedly show the unilaterally correctness of your personal way of thinking. Or you misconstrue and read in to other things (such as you snide remark above--you chose to put your own intepretation on what I wrote, selected points which you thought refuted my contention, then refused to acknowledge my response back.)

If you have the unmitigated gall to say that hatemongers reaction to various PC-related prorgress our societies have enjoyed have never turned violent, then you are once again, living in a cocoon, or you are an enthusiatic troll who just loves to get a rise out of people. You seem to like to equate PC with the fight for racial equality. I have repeatedly stated that PC is much more than that. But since you are the one equating the two, how about this sad piece of American history?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_c..._worker_murders

No matter how you read into this, these young men were murdered by people who felt they were being forced to treat blacks with equality, something they were not ready to do. 

Once again, before you try to twist my meaning again, these men were not murdered by PC-type people. But they were murdered in reaction to these young men doing PC-type work.

And since the more I read your posts, the more I think you are merely trolling for arguements, I will leave off searching for links for you as they do no good anyway.

Say what you want about Garro, at least he does read other posts with some degree of objectivity and can understand and acknowledge when someone else makes a valid point, all the while still retaining his fervent pro-PC stance.

[GuestHouse]

Rather than lauding it over people from your ivory towers, why don't you go inner city areas and actually speak to those that are anti PC. You may be in for a shock. But I suspect you're like the rest of the PC brigade - too snobby to mix with such riff-raff.

It seems I've moved from 5 star luxury to an Ivory Tower.

Feel free to get really personal if a convincing argument continues to evade you.

[GuestHouse]

Bonobo, the murderers you have given us where racists, the incident had nothing to do with Political Correctness - The term is not even mentioned in the article.

I mean really, do continue with the personal attacks.

[Super Hans]

Rather than lauding it over people from your ivory towers, why don't you go inner city areas and actually speak to those that are anti PC. You may be in for a shock. But I suspect you're like the rest of the PC brigade - too snobby to mix with such riff-raff.

It seems I've moved from 5 star luxury to an Ivory Tower.

Feel free to get really personal if a convincing argument continues to evade you.

Oh sod off, you tart. You know that remark was symbolic rather than personal. Actually, it's you that have yet to come up with anything remotely convincing.

So tell me, how do I question muslim integration in the uk without being branded a racist?

[bonobo]

Bonobo, the murderers you have given us where racists, the incident had nothing to do with Political Correctness - The term is not even mentioned in the article.

I mean really, do continue with the personal attacks.

You can read, can't you?

I wrote more than once that the murders were not done by anyone who would profess to a PC-type leaning.  This was the KKK, after all. Do you think I am that misinformed to think that the KKK is the bastion of all that is PC?

But as you are the one who has linked PC and the fight for racial equality lockstep with each other, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. If you want to equate the two, then seeing three young men who were fighting for racial justice is a valid example. Yes, it was the racists who murdered them.  I posted as much. But those racists were reacting to the civil rights movement.  They were reacting to others telling them to change their way of life.

That does not put the blame on the civil rights movement. The blame is solely with those men who committed the murders.  

And I am sorry that Wikepedia did not use the exact phrase "political correctness." You see, the phrase wasn't in common usage at the time of the murders. If you look at my posts, I never used the phrase myself for this incident but rather "PC-type."

You continue to misconstrue what others' post and ignore what you can't admit might be valid. You just can't admit that possibly, somehow, you are not 100% correct on something. Even the most ardent supporter of all that is PC would have to admit that there certainly is a possibility that the same cretins they so adamantly decry, the people who fight the gains which PC have helped attain, could react in a violent manner when confronted with change they don't want, change which most of us think make a better world. If anything, I think such an ackowledgment would help the PC cause, to point out that we need to get people to not only play lip service to PC causes, but to accept the changes in their hearts.

But then again, I did not really expect antying different from you. I keep forgetting that you are the one who is right, and anyone who disagrees with you is wrong. Sorry for my sin.

[garro]

Dear Superhans, you say that those of the more PC persuasion should read more. Is this reading material going to contain similar content as your own posts? If so then I think that I'll give it a miss. The fact that you can't see the contradictions and straw-man arguments in your own writing leads me to worry about your abilities as a book critic.

I actually find your posts amusing in a way. On one hand, you claim that the PC types were the people you bullied in school, but then you say you were a rapid PC'er in your youth. How is this possible?

On one hand you equate the PC crowd as people who believe that we should all love each other "man", but then you accuse them of being Nazis. Do you think that this is a fair comparison? Do you really believe that what the PC'ers have done is anywhere near as bad as the Nazis? If so where are all the dead bodies. This part of your argument is less amusing and actually a bit sickening.

The thing that really bothers is that I suspect that many of the anti-PC crowd know that many of their arguments are indefensible so keep moving the debate into unrelated territory and just keep on throwing lots of mud in the hope that some of it will stick. They have taken a lesson from the right-wing media in the States that if you puff yourself up and make lots of accusations then the liberals will be far too busy defending themselves to actually put forward an argument and if they do manage to get past this barrier to keep on moving the topic on tangents in the hope to lose them. Desperate measures for desperate times.

The TV character Super-Hans is a favorite of mine. He is a lovable fool. I still reckon though that he could provide a far more convincing argument than your good self.

Edited December 20, 2008 by garro

[PhilHarries]

Do you REALLY think PC doesn't piss people off enough for them to act on it? That's startlingly naive.

Rather than lauding it over people from your ivory towers, why don't you go inner city areas and actually speak to those that are anti PC. You may be in for a shock. But I suspect you're like the rest of the PC brigade - too snobby to mix with such riff-raff.

What the <deleted> has this got to do with the question in the OP? Of course you have extensive experience with communities in inner city areas. This thread was running quite well with most posters voicing opposing views relatively intelligently.

Now it's degenerated into a slag fest with posters, obviously at their limits of rationality, resorting to personal insults and name calling. I happen to know GH and, while I don't alway agree with him, I do respect his views and those of all people regardless of their sociological roots. But I can say that the last statement above, highlighted red to avoid confusion, is so wide of the mark that the poster has just shot himself up the ar5e which should shut him up for a while as he is evidently using it for reference when posting.

When I was in the UK I used to live just on the edges of what some poster rather derogatorily called "A sink estate" (obviously he thinks only working class people have sinks). My local pub would be described as a hotbed of anti PCism and the language certainly never minded the P's and Q's (and that was the lounge bar ). The only gripe these people had with the PC brigade centered on the excesses generated by the zealots and blown out of all proportion by the xenophobic gutter press. The base line message of PC, that of equality and respect, was appreciated and customers of all ethnic backgrounds were as welcome as any pure blood Brit.

Thereby lies the problem. PC is not the problem, neither is Islam, nor all the other perceived threats to our beautiful societies (?). Extremism on all sides is the problem plus the polarisation of society. Days were you could have a discussion between a bunch of people holding opposing views. The arguements would be passed back and forth and each side, whilst not giving ground, could at least acknowledge and appreciate the opposing view. A the end of the debate all would part company as not exactly friends but not enemies and agree to disagree.

Nowadays every discussion turns into a full on battle where victory has to be achieved whatever the methods used to attain it. We are losing sight of the middle way and our "beautiful society" is in flames around us while we vent our spleen on anybody holding differing views. This holds true for a vast swathe of subjects not just PC.

btw#1 I'd like to apologise for some confusion over one of my pre-apocalyse posts. What I was doing was to quote from an external source in pieces allowing me to interject the odd comment. What I forgot to do was to aknowledge the source and post a link.

btw#2 It's quite easy to break a long quote up just bt highlighting the text you want to separate and clicking on the speech bubble, penultimate icon immediately above the reply text box.

[rgs2001uk]

Whatever views you hold are no concern of mine, I am heartened to hear you are treated with dignity and respect, I hope this sort of trust and respect is also afforded to the many tcns resident in the kingdom, in some cases against their will.

I agree, I would hope so too, as I would hope Thailand's stateless minorities would be afforded the rights of citizenship they have for so long been denied, and that migrant workers from Burma and Cambodia are treated with respect and dignity. These things are of course not under our control, but we do each of us have the opportunity to treat those around us with dignity and respect - lead by example so to speak. I'm proud to say that the organization I work for has a very rigorous respect and diversity policy, our Third Country Nationals enjoy the same assignment terms and conditions, the same housing, the same leave, the same company car rights as do I or any member of the core organization.

The word moves on, that any prejudiced treatment exists is not an excuse to perpetuate it.

--

Going on from what Garro says. I have never ever heard a Thai suggest that foreigners who have any kind of an issue with Thailand should go home - I mean I have never ever heard that. To suggest that anyone hears this from Thais to the point that its getting to sound like a broken record beggars belief. I'm not saying the claim is 'imagined' but it does seem to be an argument of convenience lacking substantiation.

Khun Guesthouse,

spit it out man, no need to beat about the bush, if you want to accuse me of having pants on fire, feel free.

I wont regard it as an insult, I wont take it personally, its only an internet form, and what appears on the screen is only text, nothing to get excited about.

As to what you have or havent heard I am in no position to comment, if you choose not to afford me the same courtesy, thats your choice.

I am in full possession of my senses, so I can assure you its neither an argument of convenience or imagined.

Feel free to advise me on how I can substantiate in a manner you may find acceptable.

[bassmaster50]

I grew up in a largely black neighborhood in America. Many if not most of my friends were black. I was on a basketball team and baseball team where I was theo only white kid, and I really had noproblems. Then there was all the racial problems of the sixties and things changed. There were black gangs and white gangs. I joined the white gang, for self preservation mainly. I was interviewed on tv as I was leader of the white gang following a big race riot at my high school which made the national news. I only relate this in order to explain the background in which my character was formed.When I got older and went to work, I met this big black guy who every day said to me, "Hello, Honkie", until I got sick of it and one day said, "Hello, N-----." This led to a big fight, of course. And numerous big fights after that, one being in the lobby of the Plaza Hotel in New York. This guy became my best friend.

One time he saved my life, as there was a crowd of about 200 brothers in a parking lot who wanted to

lynch me, until he showed up and told them, "If you want to kill that white boy, you got to kill this n----- first."

f As he was huge and carried a .45, and was highly respected they left me alone. Years later I saved his wife, who was white, from a gang of punks. The point of this story is that this guy and I became best friends but the PC types would still be all outraged at this relationship. I am not saying the N word is okay,because it isn't. But black people call each other this all the time. The point of this is that my relationship with Jimmy was my business and his and nobody else's. Neither of us wanted or would allow other people to dictate how we dealt with each other, and I love the guy like a brother. And likewise I don't need somebody, PC or otherwise, trying to tell me how to talk, feel or live my life.

I don't know if this is true, but I get the feeling that garo wishes to decide what other people are allowed to say or think. This is I think the whole point of the issue with Nazis. My personal feeling is if someone wished to be politically correct, then that is their right. If someone does not, then this is also their right. I for one have never been politically correct. I never have and I never will. But this is my right.

[bonobo]

On one hand you equate the PC crowd as people who believe that we should all love each other "man", but then you accuse them of being Nazis. Do you think that this is a fair comparison? Do you really believe that what the PC'ers have done is anywhere near as bad as the Nazis? If so where are all the dead bodies. This part of your argument is less amusing and actually a bit sickening.

From the posts I have read, I don't think anyone is comparing PC'ers to actual Nazis, to the horrors perpetrated by them. I think he comparison is being made to the "thought police" aspect of the Nazi party.

Now whether this is an accurate comparison, if it is hyperbole, or if it is totally off-base is open to debate. But no matter what yoru views, I think the comparison needs to be taken into the proper perspective.

[Ulysses G.]

There is the "Soup-Nazi" type of Nazi which is what people are referring to when it comes to political

correctness - someone with a stick of wood up their butts who is too strict about adhering to silly rules.

[onzestan]

I have followed this topic with interest, and after first deciding to stay out of it, I now feel I have something more to say.

Both Garro and Guesthouse claim that PC has brought chance for the better, I say they’re wrong. What PC has done is made people more aware of the differences amongst them, and also providing them with a platform to get their way against democratic values. It is also true that PC has made it possible for small pressure groups, and/or groups of leftist lawyers, to exploit PC to get financial gain by attacking perceived racism, even if it’s against publications made more than 60 years ago.

I claim that the good trend of diminishing racism would have come anyway, regardless of PC, because of the enormous leaps in global communications, the growing number of persons visiting foreign countries and the confrontations with different cultures, amongst others.

It might have taken longer, but we will never know don’t we?

What I find most disturbing about PC is that so-called PC advocates think they are the only ones that have seen the truth, and we all know where such ideas lead too don’t we.

And Guesthouse can you please stop treating me in your condescending way and next time reply to some of my legitimate questions. You admit having been wrong before, who says you are right this time?

No malice intended

onzestan

[garro]

Well this conversation seems stuck on the level that those who support respect for minorities are Nazis. A shameful thing to say. I hate to spoil the rosy picture that some people on this forum have of the Nazi regime, but the Nazis were not in the business of trying to change people's minds. They quickly executed anyone who they even suspected of thinking differently. But please feel free to continue because other than name calling there doesn't seem to much else left in your arguments.

Edited December 20, 2008 by garro

[onzestan]

Well this conversation seems stuck on the level that those who support respect for minorities are Nazis. A shameful thing to say. I hate to spoil the rosy picture that some people on this forum have of the Nazi regime, but the Nazis were not in the business of trying to change people's minds. They quickly executed anyone who they even suspected of thinking differently. But please feel free to continue because other than name calling there doesn't seem to much else left in your arguments.

I agree with what you are saying about the nazi's, where my family and my country have suffered under their regime.

Once again I have no problem with the gist of PC being against racism in any form, as am I since before the advent of PC just because of my christian conscience and the way I was raised by my parents and the schools I attended.

My problem is, that it has gone to far, and has now become a one way street.

If I have to respect others, why can't I ask the same for me and my traditions, and I'm not talking about the right to say what I want, but about having a traditional (for centuries) christmas tree with all the trimmings in front of town hall.

That tree is NOT there to offend other religions but to celebrate the birth of Jesus, and the promotion of peace on earth.

onzestan

[Boo]

Here in UK no one has stopped putting up trees, wishing each other merry Christmas, putting up decorations, singing the carols, doing the nativity in schools etc so I wonder what countries the anti-pc folks claim they have been restricted?