Tv Members And Political Correctness

[GuestHouse]

I believe in telling the truth, and if you don't like it, too bad.

No you don't you tell lies just like the rest of us.

[mahtin]

So you think calling wome

Looks like Horsey's PC is on the blink

[AndyBlueEyes]

This is a curious accusation in a post complaining about laws that restrict the right of a man to pay for a prostitute - Is there any better example of self emasculation than paying for sex?

In answer to your question, YES, 'marriage' is a better example self emasculation . Most divorce laws now amount to nothing more than the legalization of paying for sex in the form of alimony and palimony. Hope that is PC !

[mahtin]

This is a curious accusation in a post complaining about laws that restrict the right of a man to pay for a prostitute - Is there any better example of self emasculation than paying for sex?

In answer to your question, YES, 'marriage' is a better example self emasculation . Most divorce laws now amount to nothing more than the legalization of paying for sex in the form of alimony and palimony. Hope that is PC !

Self-emasculation = paying lip-service to a pc neo-feminist.

fuggedaboudit, like Ulysses G, a beer is a better idea

[Boo]

lol, a topic on the merits of PC & it turns into (shock, surprise!!!) a bunch of whines & complaints from some "men" about women in the west & their rights & how those poor "boys" don't like it. boo hoo cry me a river. It's the 21st century, learn to cope.

[Super Hans]

Guesthouse most be the longest surviving troll in the history of TV.

Well done mate.

GuestHouse enjoys uniform respectability on this forum .

You're the troll and a most prolific one , as you only joined last week and have over 130 toxic tirades thus far..

I"d like to say I find it odd that the word " Girl" is used regularly to denote fully grown women.

It's as if the term "woman" is a bad word ..or the implication of of equal status is perhaps what's bothersome ?

It seems if women are considered sexually attractive then they must be " girls "

Women who CENSORED for a livling are always " girls "

Even the newspapers will call women in headlines , such as adult sporting teams " Girls"

but male athletes, unless under the age of 18 are always " Men " not boys .

Not "guys ", but men , so it's not just slang .

" This is about how language defines a role , and how women are still " Girls" unless thay are too old to be sexually desirable, (like what guys, over 35-40? )Then they can be" ladies " like the" Ladies" board on this forum .

Where we all hold our knees together, drink teas and discuss how we can help...children.

this is not slang talk it is about real chauvanism and how language is used to imply subjugation

We are girls or ladies or chicks or skirts or a myriad of other demeaning terms ..but never women.

Of course I know the sexist factor is way up there in this predominately male group on Thai visa , but every increment of (un) conciousness raised helps.

( Thanks GuestHouse. You're my favorite. )

"A genuinely liberal view of life translated into action, however, should be enough to ensure the vulnerable in society are not victimized." (Xangsamhua)

Yes so this is where TV members generally have a problem.

Can we have more top quality posts like this one please?

And to think people are pissed off with political correctness. You could not make it up (etc).

[Super Hans]

lol, a topic on the merits of PC & it turns into (shock, surprise!!!) a bunch of whines & complaints from some "men" about women in the west & their rights & how those poor "boys" don't like it. boo hoo cry me a river. It's the 21st century, learn to cope.

We'll learn how to cope when you learn how to parallel park.

[Boo]

i don't recall knowing you so wonder what you know about my parking? what a silly comment.

[Super Hans]

i don't recall knowing you so wonder what you know about my parking? what a silly comment.

It was just a joke, luv. Never mind.

[Super Hans]

Speaking but not actually understanding what impact your words have is not using a freedom, its simply making a noise regardless of how it impacts others.

no it isnt.

anodyne neutral language , the emasculated language of the politically correct , be they individuals or governments or town councils , is merely the use of language for the express purpose of not having any effect whatsoever.

if we cant use language to express ourselves according to our true feelings , be it to to amuse , to enlighten or to insult , then why bother speaking , its akin to living under the fear of a stalinist regime where you didnt know what you could say or what you couldnt say for fear of saying the wrong thing and being shot. we are human beings with a wide variety of feelings and emotions , not all of them nice. you cant legislate and expect those feelings to disappear.

some people are far too easily "insulted" these days by silly little things , ( and i dont mean racial abuse or abuse of the underprivelidged , those views should be condemned by the more rational yes , but banned and prosecuted .... no ).

its become an industry.

i wouldnt want the national front banned , i want to know about the poison they speak , so i can protect myself against it. better to have ones true feelings out there , whatever they are , than have them bottled up.

Bang. On.

Who does well out of political correctness? Minorities? The poor? The weak? No! It's white middle class people, who use this agenda to further their personal ambitions. We used to bully these people in the playground, for good reason too. What happy days.

[Super Hans]

And it's not countries with PM that are women that are more peaceful, it's countries with EQUAL representation within the entire government .

As women make up 50% of the population , why aren't ALL governments made up of 50% women?

Every male on the planet knows why.

I would explain why but I'm not allowed to.

[koheesti]

Very well put Garro. Anything taken to the extreme is usualy a bad thing, PC being no exception, However what basic PC means is respecting your fellow people.

Maybe that's what it is supposed to mean. But what it means in practice is that some small group of over-sensitive morons with some sort of editorial power have decided what to call minorities without asking those people themselves. About 15 years ago I read a poll in a magazine (US News & World Report) asking minorities what they liked to be called and all the PC terms scored very low. In other words, Blacks overwhelmingly prefered to be called black, American Indians simply "Indians", etc.

The only people I have ever heard voice having a problem with PC are thouse who wish they could call still call people that look like me the "N" word and not get their teeth knocked out. Bigots and shovansits the lot of them.

If that's true then you hang around with some real lowlifes.

[spud1]

Hey Guesthouse, this trolling thing seems to work! .I see there's been the odd reply to your OP.

[onzestan]

What I don't like about PC is that it's a one way street.

It has become a weapon used and abused by so called minorities to the extreme.

Just my point of view.

onzestan

[bassmaster50]

I know this is not America here, but it is a democracy of sorts and for the most part, people here enjoy the right of free speech, with certain specific limitations. Americans are very protective of the right of free speech. Many people have fought and died to protect this right, among others. I believe, as do most people, that there must be limitations. Child pornography, yelling "fire" in a public building when there is no fire, or threatening the president are justifiably illegal. But for the most part the question is, who gets to decide what you can't say? I cannot say I have never told a lie in my life. I will say I believe in telling the truth, whether you want to hear it or not. I was suspended for a year without pay because I told the truth at a meeting. I don't believe it is right to use certain words, and I believe people who use those words are stupid, ignorant dirtbags. But they should still have the right to say them. The problem is, as I said, who gets to decide what you can or can't say? Garo? I hope not. Hopefully mankind will progress to a point where people will naturally come to see what is right and wrong. Most decent people pretty much agrees the N word is bad, but black people call each other that all the time. Should they go to jail? And it seems to be okay to say the most offensive things about Christians. This offends me as I am Christian, but I still would defend their right to say them.

[JSixpack]

And it's not countries with PM that are women that are more peaceful, it's countries with EQUAL representation within the entire government .

As women make up 50% of the population , why aren't ALL governments made up of 50% women?

Every male on the planet knows why.

As does every female.

[Gaccha]

Countries with highe female representation are

Sweden , The Netherlands, France and interestingly, since the genocide, Rwanda. Liberia is rising and both these Afrian countiries are making huge strides toward human rights since their genocidal male leaders have been overthrown

This can not be left.

One of the main instigators of the genocide iin Rwanda was a female cabinet minister-- the Minister for Families (Pauline Nyiramasuhuko). But not only that, she was also a member of the tribe that she ordered massacred! It has been analysed by Prof Zimbardo who conducted the famous Stanford Prison Experiment and who places situational forces above dispositions. She wiped out her own people to prove to the other cabinet members her loyalty and because she did not have the moral courage to say no. So maybe she was a person of bad character.... nope. She was a former lecturer on women's empowerment...

She gave the order: "Before you kill the women you need to rape them".

So would women do a better job? Would peace rein if they were in charge? Let's ask Nyiramasuhuko's female lawyer:

"when you do murder trials, you realize we are all susceptible, and you wouldn't dream you even dream you would ever commit this act. But you come to understand that everyone is [susceptible]".

All of you probably think you would never murder, would never commit genocide, never rape (male or female members of the forum)... you are wrong. You all would, except an astonishingly tiny percentage. Who are these people? They are non-group non-emotional (no mates and have no desire to join groups/gangs at school, but not loners[who are 'failed joiners'). So, for example, a married man is more likely to commit genocide than a 50-year-old bachelor. But I suspect this would mean women are more likely than man to commit horrific acts if power lay in their hands.

Happy days.

[sbk]

Just so you know, bashing of any kind is not acceptable on this forum. PC or not PC, this forum requires good manners and civil behavior. Something to bear in mind when posting.

[Gary A]

Political correctness and women's liberation are like labor unions. All were a necessary evil and all got out of hand and went WAY over the top.

[HorseDoctor]

One of the worse countries for equal rep of women in gov- USA

maybe womens votes should have double value then.

are women prevented from standing for office , do women not have the vote in the usa?

could it just be , as impossible or as unpalatable as it may appear to you , that the suitability of those women standing for office just does not appeal to the voters , of whom i assume 50% are women.

or are you suggesting positive discrimination in favour of women ( or blacks , or whites , or jews ) whether they are capable for the job or not ??

horsedoctor , when you are in a hole , you should stop digging.

your arguments are feeble to say the least.

At least I have an argument whereas from your tone of hostility- have nothing but fear equality with women will emasculate you, Boy .

The system within the US precludes women running for office as they are too busy doing a man's laundry and taking care of kids. ( or chasing him for support of those kids)

" Women are 9 times more likely to be responsible for housework and child rearing ." whether they work outside the home or not

http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Taubman_C...meninoffice.pdf ( p 6 )

When they do run, they win in equal amounts as men.

Edited December 15, 2008 by HorseDoctor

[Ulysses G.]

"Politically Correct" and its abbreviation, PC, are themselves terms which carry prejudice.

What do people who are in favour of political correctness call it?

Can anyone give a clear definition of what is political correctness?

Initially, political correctness was thought of as a good thing by kneejerk liberals, and the word be used to admonish folks that used terms that were not considered PC. Eventually, normal folks started realizing how silly these terms are and started rebelling against them, and PC turned into a joke.

Edited December 15, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[HorseDoctor]

Countries with highe female representation are

Sweden , The Netherlands, France and interestingly, since the genocide, Rwanda. Liberia is rising and both these Afrian countiries are making huge strides toward human rights since their genocidal male leaders have been overthrown

This can not be left.

One of the main instigators of the genocide iin Rwanda was a female cabinet minister-- the Minister for Families (Pauline Nyiramasuhuko). But not only that, she was also a member of the tribe that she ordered massacred! It has been analysed by Prof Zimbardo who conducted the famous Stanford Prison Experiment and who places situational forces above dispositions. She wiped out her own people to prove to the other cabinet members her loyalty and because she did not have the moral courage to say no. So maybe she was a person of bad character.... nope. She was a former lecturer on women's empowerment...

She gave the order: "Before you kill the women you need to rape them".

So would women do a better job? Would peace rein if they were in charge? Let's ask Nyiramasuhuko's female lawyer:

"when you do murder trials, you realize we are all susceptible, and you wouldn't dream you even dream you would ever commit this act. But you come to understand that everyone is [susceptible]".

All of you probably think you would never murder, would never commit genocide, never rape (male or female members of the forum)... you are wrong. You all would, except an astonishingly tiny percentage. Who are these people? They are non-group non-emotional (no mates and have no desire to join groups/gangs at school, but not loners[who are 'failed joiners'). So, for example, a married man is more likely to commit genocide than a 50-year-old bachelor. But I suspect this would mean women are more likely than man to commit horrific acts if power lay in their hands.

Happy days.

I do not know of tis particualr woman, why she was a murderer. Perhaps if more women had been in govt then , they might have been able to stop her.

I do know that within the last decade as the government of Rwanda has become more gender equal ( 50 % of women reps in govt being the point, not individuals ) It has become a more stable , peaceful nation.

Yes some women act badly , just like some men. Get it - EQUAL NOT BETTER .

AGAIN , please , my point is : 50 % female representative in Govt. leads to better nations.

[HorseDoctor]

Political correctness and women's liberation are like labor unions. All were a necessary evil and all got out of hand and went WAY over the top.

So how much housework do you do? Do you prepare 3 meals a day 365 days a year? No?

So I'm assuming you have a Thai wife, She cooks and cleans for you right? And you don't want anyone to put any ideas in her head that maybe she could have a life for herself without having to do that beause then you might have to cook and clean for yourself ..

IS this why you see feminism as an "evil" like Unions that look after workers from greedy industrialists that would have them working 80 hours a week for little pay, like men expect of women in Thailand?

[GuestHouse]

I mentioned it above, perhaps because it came as a surprise, that Political Correctness clearly equates in the minds of many of the men responding here with issues they themselves have over women.

What surprises me more is the depth of these 'women issues' in some of the male respondents, not just what they are telling us (much of which seems more fitting for a patient doctor conversation) but also in that this baggage they are carrying spills over into open hostility towards female members of this board.

[HorseDoctor]

I mentioned it above, perhaps because it came as a surprise, that Political Correctness clearly equates in the minds of many of the men responding here with issues they themselves have over women.

What surprises me more is the depth of these 'women issues' in some of the male respondents, not just what they are telling us (much of which seems more fitting for a patient doctor conversation) but also in that this baggage they are carrying spills over into open hostility towards female members of this board.

I"m not surprised at all -really, most western men are here to subjugate women, where it be in the bars or in a marriage. Women in the west are rising up ( somewhat) so who's left ? 3rd world women, that's who .

And of course they are angry and defensive at me for bringing it up. Because it's wrong and they know it.

I really think it boils down to just laziness. Having to actually cook and clean for themselves, horrors.

And take care of children? Shudder.

[bonobo]

I do agree with many posters here that PC can go over-the-top quite easily. Some people, in the pursuit of forcing others to accept their narrow world view, use PC as a weapon to achieve what they want.

On other occassions, being PC is simply another word for being polite or considerate. Freedom of speech or not, some words can be hurtful to certain people or groups of people. To use the Rwanda example written about above, I would imagine that calling a Tutsi there a "cockroach" could evoke many extremely painful emotions.

But then there are people who get upset at innocuous phrasings which really have no historical negative connotations. Once again, to use a posted example, I really don't think using the word "girls" to descibe women is negative at all as Horsedoctor opines. As I and others have pointed out, women themselves use the term, and phrases like "girls' night out" are no more demeaning than phrases like "boys' night out" or our "boys in brown." In my gut I really believe that people like her are really making much ado about nothing. A person who uses the word "girl" is not part of some vast conspiracy dedicated to keeping women barefoot, pregnant, and locked in the home doing housework.

However, if it bothers her, then does it hurt me to try and comply? If it bothers somebody, then it really doesn't hurt a person to try and be polite. A similar post about this specific usage was made earlier this year. OK, I think it is ridiculous, but as long as some people, even a minority, are bothered by this usage, then I have no problem trying to use other terminology to describe women. It really does no harm to me to try and do so.

I have to admit, though that I do draw the line sometimes. I refuse to use the term "X-Mas," for example, in place of Christmas, to "de-religify" the holiday to let people of all religions celebrate it. Christmas is, since the days the date was taken from the Druids, a Christian holiday. I would not try to "de-religify" Ramadan or Hanukkah, either.

Edited December 15, 2008 by bonobo

[taxexile]

"m not surprised at all -really, most western men are here to subjugate women, where it be in the bars or in a marriage. Women in the west are rising up ( somewhat) so who's left ? 3rd world women, that's who .

And of course they are angry and defensive at me for bringing it up. Because it's wrong and they know it.

I really think it boils down to just laziness. Having to actually cook and clean for themselves, horrors.

And take care of children? Shudder.

you seem to hold views as angry and extreme as some of the male posters that you accuse.

..... as if the cleaning and cooking rotas in a marriage are a true measure of the equality between the partners.

its laughable.

to base your views of thai womenhood on your observations of a few loutish westerners with bought women shows you are just moulding your facts to fit your own agenda here.

many men here are in long lasting and honest relationships with thai women , deeply fullfilling to both partners , your patronising generalisations and angry tone are offensive to many ....... and this on a topic about political correct forms of expression.

thai and other eastern women are in possession of a kind of gentle feminism that many western men find attractive and alluring , a feminism that achieves its goals not by demand , aggression and confrontation , and certainly not by passive subjugation and cleaning and ironing either.... (thai women as subservient and passive !!!!! ha! open your eyes , dont be so naive and think that by observing a few sex tourists you are an anthropological authority on thai/western relationships.)

thai women achieve their goals by the simple act of being women , nothing more , nothing less.

dont be so angry horsedoctor , somewhere there is a caring sharing stallion waiting for you.

[PhilHarries]

Who does well out of political correctness? Minorities? The poor? The weak? No! It's white middle class people, who use this agenda to further their personal ambitions. We used to bully these people in the playground, for good reason too. What happy days.

You are closer to the truth than maybe you, certainly most other people, would think. Take this from Sunday's Telegraph:-

Dorothy Glenn decorates her home in South Shields, Tyne and Wear, with hundreds of festive lights every year, including a giant tree and a 4ft Santa Claus.

But this year she was astonished when an employee of South Tyneside Homes called at her house and informed her that the decorations she was displaying might be offending her neighbours.

But the housing association denied all:-

A spokesman for South Tyneside Council said: "We would like to make it clear that South Tyneside Homes is happy for residents to put up Christmas lights to decorate their homes.

"Christmas lights bring a bit of festive cheer to everybody and we are delighted to see examples of tenants and leaseholders across the borough taking so much pride in the appearance of their homes.

"We have received no complaint about this alleged incident, but are investigating the matter and apologise for any upset this may have caused."

Blaming on one individual who's fate is not covered. But what of the neighbours who are likely to be offended?

Independent councillor Ahmed Khan, who represents Mrs Glenn's ward, condemned the employee's actions.

He said: "Every year this woman puts her Christmas lights up and I know how popular they are. It's great when people make an effort to decorate their houses.

"It's this kind of nonsense that sets race relations back 20 years. That woman did nothing more than decorate her house to celebrate Christmas."

And that just about sums it up, much of this perceived PC is generated not by the minorities themselves but by white middle class members of NGO's vying for publicity and trying to suck up to the minorities who want no part of it.

It is this kind of guano that, as the councellor says, sets race relations back and fosters animosity that thus festers into outright racism.

There, a reply that didn't mention women/girls versus men/boys. Jeez, in a world so beset with horrendous acts of inhumanity all you worry about is being called a girl. Suprised you didn't bring up the way us dastardly, evil, chauvanist men continually insist on leaving the toilet seat up.

[bonobo]

I"m not surprised at all -really, most western men are here to subjugate women, where it be in the bars or in a marriage. Women in the west are rising up ( somewhat) so who's left ? 3rd world women, that's who .

And of course they are angry and defensive at me for bringing it up. Because it's wrong and they know it.

I really think it boils down to just laziness. Having to actually cook and clean for themselves, horrors.

And take care of children? Shudder.

PC covers many areas of which the male-female issue is only one small part. So I have hesitated to post on this one issue, but sometimes, a broad brush can still offend a person (in this case, me).

I use the phrase "girls" quite often, although, as I posted before, I have tried to refrain from using it here in TV. But I passionately believe in equality between the sexes. If I had a daughter, I would want for her every opportunity that any man would enjoy. And as my ex is a physician, it was quite nice to go into divorce court and not have to pay alimony. She could take care of herself quite adequately, thank you. So I benefited from equality there.

I am a better cook than most women (or men) I have met, quite frankly. So whether in the US, in Italy, in Japan, or here in Thailand, I tend to do the cooking. This has nothing to do with laziness or energy, it has to do with eating. Each of my female companions and I like my cooking better. So I cook and they clean up. It has been this way all my life.

Equality does not mean sameness. It means no one is more important than the other, and all do what they do best, and all enjoy equal benefits from what they do accomplish. I cook well, so I cook. I am strong, so I do heavy lifting. I can't iron a shirt to save my life, so my female companions have done that. I can't remember where I put my car keys 5 minutes ago, so they keep the house organized.

My point here is that like many men, I treat women with respect as fellow human beings, with equality. And if I use the term "girls," for you to infer that I am a lazy, shiftless, mysoginist cretin is hardly the type of compassion and understanding in yourself that you infer men are lacking.

And this is where the PC trend is damaging. When a word or phrase is hijacked by activist of any ilk and others are improperly branded by such actions, well, that damages the human condition.

[Gary A]

Many people have a generalized belief that Thai women are docile and submissive. Those people have not met my wife. A husband and wife should be equals? I wish someone would tell my wife that. She does ask me about things but then does exactly as she chooses. My wife knows everything about everything. I think her self assurance came from having to take care of herself all her life. She is a seamstress and worked in a Dubai sweat shop garment factory for two and a half years to make enough money to build her house. If I were to leave tomorrow, she would have no problems taking care of herself.